C'mon guys, I just found out that the one thing I really liked about Bards has been taken away, the ability to wear an assortment of eq, we are now restricted to the rogue class eq, and I understand that bards are considered rogues, and if thats the case then give us the abilities to go along with the restrictions...are Bards being punished? We get all the crap that rogues have to put up with but NONE of the good things...things as simple as trip...maybe dual wield, anything, It seems that at every turn we Bards are being run into the ground, sorry to get so upset but I love the bard class, and now its even harder to play
Kobei
Bards
Hey I agree with ya Kobei. Seems like bards got shafted. Song of healing is now weaker than it ever was, etc. I always found it funny when bards were wielding Orbs of Annihilation and stuff. I think it added a little bit of spice to a class that didn't have a lot of spice to begin with 
I think its lame how often bards stutter, even at higher levels like they were in Alpha-2. I also think its lame that the song lasts 4 verses and then is done. Yeah I agree that before a bard could sit afk and sing heal at the fountain or wherever and have songs that lasted for oodles of verses. But as it is now, its just lame.
Lyt
I think its lame how often bards stutter, even at higher levels like they were in Alpha-2. I also think its lame that the song lasts 4 verses and then is done. Yeah I agree that before a bard could sit afk and sing heal at the fountain or wherever and have songs that lasted for oodles of verses. But as it is now, its just lame.
Lyt
I most definitely have to agree with ya Kobei. Granted I never got my bard past 25 but one thing I really loved about the class was that we could wear just about anything 
I thought it was fun when in groups people would say that this or that piece of eq is mage or cleric only and I could just put it on A good bard really needs good + in like 5 different things.. Strength, instruments are heavy. Con so we can survive a ress and have a few hit points. Dex to be able to play the instruments. Int so we can sing the songs. and last but not least Charisma just so we can be a bard. Most of the eq to cover alot of what bards need are very specialized in who can wear it. Bards only really get 2 or 3 rogue skills so why penalize them with the eq restrictions now?
Just doesn't make much sense.
okay I'm done rambling now
Yarthra
Bard in warriors clothing.
Myzennthia
I thought it was fun when in groups people would say that this or that piece of eq is mage or cleric only and I could just put it on
A good bard really needs good + in like 5 different things.. Strength, instruments are heavy. Con so we can survive a ress and have a few hit points. Dex to be able to play the instruments. Int so we can sing the songs. and last but not least Charisma just so we can be a bard. Most of the eq to cover alot of what bards need are very specialized in who can wear it. Bards only really get 2 or 3 rogue skills so why penalize them with the eq restrictions now? Just doesn't make much sense.
okay I'm done rambling now
Yarthra
Bard in warriors clothing.
Myzennthia
I thought this might be realavent to the thread,
I am a muscician, I have been for around 8 or 9 months now. Its a very short time, but I am a frontman in a heavy metal band, and I dont care what anyone says, its some of the hardest music out there to play well.
Anyway, my point is that after 8 short months (8 months ago I had never sung a word or strummed a guitar) I can sing and play any of our songs in my sleep. After long enough, it just simply becomes automatic. I think its ridiculous how often the bards stutter... If I did that I wouldnt be a frontman for long.
what is VERY difficult, however, is constantly playing. A 2 1/2 long set can kill a man as far as stamina goes, although im sure bards do much less moving around and kicking things as I do.
Anyway, How about a limit on how much bards could sing instead of stuttering? You could even just turn them into casters, I.E. you have to 'practice' (memorize) a song if you dont use it for a certain period of time.
I dunno, just a few ideas. I dont play a bard, but I think they got shafted. Bards were VERY cool to have in a group IMHO, specially if they were willing to sing out and wait for ph so we could rotate tanks. We did some killer exp back in the day that way.
Also, I can tell you, If I didnt have a drummer or bassist, or even lead guitarist at times, I couldnt perform live. Heck, its all I really know so I doubt I could play at all! Its much EASIER to play with someone else. How about, along the lines of spell combos we let bards do song combos?
The class needs a major overhaul, I dont care how much work was done to make battlechanters like bards, this class stinks as is.
-Gerad, the opinionated storytelling annoying one.
I am a muscician, I have been for around 8 or 9 months now. Its a very short time, but I am a frontman in a heavy metal band, and I dont care what anyone says, its some of the hardest music out there to play well.
Anyway, my point is that after 8 short months (8 months ago I had never sung a word or strummed a guitar) I can sing and play any of our songs in my sleep. After long enough, it just simply becomes automatic. I think its ridiculous how often the bards stutter... If I did that I wouldnt be a frontman for long.
what is VERY difficult, however, is constantly playing. A 2 1/2 long set can kill a man as far as stamina goes, although im sure bards do much less moving around and kicking things as I do.
Anyway, How about a limit on how much bards could sing instead of stuttering? You could even just turn them into casters, I.E. you have to 'practice' (memorize) a song if you dont use it for a certain period of time.
I dunno, just a few ideas. I dont play a bard, but I think they got shafted. Bards were VERY cool to have in a group IMHO, specially if they were willing to sing out and wait for ph so we could rotate tanks. We did some killer exp back in the day that way.
Also, I can tell you, If I didnt have a drummer or bassist, or even lead guitarist at times, I couldnt perform live. Heck, its all I really know so I doubt I could play at all! Its much EASIER to play with someone else. How about, along the lines of spell combos we let bards do song combos?
The class needs a major overhaul, I dont care how much work was done to make battlechanters like bards, this class stinks as is.
-Gerad, the opinionated storytelling annoying one.
When I found out that there were finally evil race bards I was overjoyed. Finally I thought! However, my hopes were soon dashed.
I worked my way to level 10 so I could play heal and actually be useful to a group only to find out I was still useless.
Each of my songs lasted one verse (if I was lucky and didn't stutter first) and each verse healed for 5-6 hpts.
Basically, I now have the ability to cure light my group members at level 10. I understand that as I go up in level my healing increases, but come on. As it is right now, I honestly can't see anyone playing the class long enough to get that high.
In alpha 2 I tested a level 45 bard. At this level my songs were working where they should be with a few discrepencies here and there. However, I had to use a special instrument (Lyre of Amberyl) to get my songs working well. If I used the instruments bought at stores I would heal (as an example) 20-30 hpts per verse. If that is what I heal at 45 what will I be healing at 30?
So far, all of the additions to the bard class have been useless. All of their new songs will have no use in a high level group with the exception of song of luck perhaps. Virtuoso is an interesting skill as well I suppose but you don't get it until level 45 and I don't think its working properly still.
I have been playing the bard class for the majority of my five years on this mud and I love the class. During this time I have only ever seen the class downgraded and hindered. These new changes make things worse to such an extent that I don't think I want to play this class anymore which really bothers me. I was really hoping that the class was finally going to get its well deserved makeover.
I know I am whining a lot in this post, but I truly believe that as it stands the chances of Sojourn 3 seeing a level 50 bard are slim to none. If the class isn't going to get a work over, at the very least please return the class to where it was in Sojourn 2 and Toril. At least then they would still be partially useful.
Good Journeys
Tsaej Mallorn
I worked my way to level 10 so I could play heal and actually be useful to a group only to find out I was still useless.
Each of my songs lasted one verse (if I was lucky and didn't stutter first) and each verse healed for 5-6 hpts.
Basically, I now have the ability to cure light my group members at level 10. I understand that as I go up in level my healing increases, but come on. As it is right now, I honestly can't see anyone playing the class long enough to get that high.
In alpha 2 I tested a level 45 bard. At this level my songs were working where they should be with a few discrepencies here and there. However, I had to use a special instrument (Lyre of Amberyl) to get my songs working well. If I used the instruments bought at stores I would heal (as an example) 20-30 hpts per verse. If that is what I heal at 45 what will I be healing at 30?
So far, all of the additions to the bard class have been useless. All of their new songs will have no use in a high level group with the exception of song of luck perhaps. Virtuoso is an interesting skill as well I suppose but you don't get it until level 45 and I don't think its working properly still.
I have been playing the bard class for the majority of my five years on this mud and I love the class. During this time I have only ever seen the class downgraded and hindered. These new changes make things worse to such an extent that I don't think I want to play this class anymore which really bothers me. I was really hoping that the class was finally going to get its well deserved makeover.
I know I am whining a lot in this post, but I truly believe that as it stands the chances of Sojourn 3 seeing a level 50 bard are slim to none. If the class isn't going to get a work over, at the very least please return the class to where it was in Sojourn 2 and Toril. At least then they would still be partially useful.
Good Journeys
Tsaej Mallorn
I played a bard with great joy for a long time. And I can only say that this change of item restriction is everything but cool.
The item restriction does give the bard more choices in equipment to use, but is a 50/50 bard now so intresting? Its still a more then sad hitter then. Or a 1000hp bard that powerfull? It did not add that much and does not got the stats it need. So if this was for balance sake I can only say you have made things much more unbalancing. Becouse a bard is already hard to play and only that intresting if you like a passive roll in a group.
Almile
The item restriction does give the bard more choices in equipment to use, but is a 50/50 bard now so intresting? Its still a more then sad hitter then. Or a 1000hp bard that powerfull? It did not add that much and does not got the stats it need. So if this was for balance sake I can only say you have made things much more unbalancing. Becouse a bard is already hard to play and only that intresting if you like a passive roll in a group.
Almile
Hopefully some of you will recognize my name from posting on here previously, but if you do know not, know that I am synonymous with bard class commentary, and that I am usually quite longwinded with my posts. Not this time. This time no positive proposals or new creative ideas. Perhaps you have also noticed my lack of posting as of late on the BBS? This is due to my faith in the MUD wearing down months ago, and after what I learned recently, it shattering. I seriously don’t believe I’ll ever be playing a bard, or Sojourn, again. Therefor, as a former hardcore RP/Bard player, I’d just like to point a few things out by allowing each of you to ask yourselves a few questions.
One, How many immortals do you see posting on this thread after 12 posts?
Two, How many immortals of significant influence do you see displaying any serious interest, currently or previously, in this class publicly? For example, try looking in to the other bard threads that were started about 4 months ago, back in January. You’ll see little to no real interest by the staff in joining in on a give and take conversation. That can be a message in itself.
Three, Guess what Exp table bards have? If you think it is Rogues, you’re horribly wrong. Try enchanters.
Four, How often do you see any of the former fulltime bards on the mud now?
Five, How many of the ideas in previous Bard threads have we seen gone in thus far, or even just promised to us that they would go in?
Six, How many Battle chanters do you see playing? For that matter, how many Orcs? How difficult do you think it is to play as a race no one plays, in a hometown no one is in, and as a class that can’t solo?
Enough said.
Someone might read this and think I am flaming them. Unfortunately, in order for me to do that, I would have to care, and I no longer do. *shrug* If you still feel I am flaming you, I apologize, for that is not my intent or my wish here today. I further reiterate that in order for some one to flame you, they would have to be emotionally attached to the subject matter. I have not been for quite some time. There would have to be significant measures taken to rectify that matter, for better or worse.
My two Zhents,
Caedym Shadowhock
(caedym@aol.com)
One, How many immortals do you see posting on this thread after 12 posts?
Two, How many immortals of significant influence do you see displaying any serious interest, currently or previously, in this class publicly? For example, try looking in to the other bard threads that were started about 4 months ago, back in January. You’ll see little to no real interest by the staff in joining in on a give and take conversation. That can be a message in itself.
Three, Guess what Exp table bards have? If you think it is Rogues, you’re horribly wrong. Try enchanters.
Four, How often do you see any of the former fulltime bards on the mud now?
Five, How many of the ideas in previous Bard threads have we seen gone in thus far, or even just promised to us that they would go in?
Six, How many Battle chanters do you see playing? For that matter, how many Orcs? How difficult do you think it is to play as a race no one plays, in a hometown no one is in, and as a class that can’t solo?
Enough said.
Someone might read this and think I am flaming them. Unfortunately, in order for me to do that, I would have to care, and I no longer do. *shrug* If you still feel I am flaming you, I apologize, for that is not my intent or my wish here today. I further reiterate that in order for some one to flame you, they would have to be emotionally attached to the subject matter. I have not been for quite some time. There would have to be significant measures taken to rectify that matter, for better or worse.
My two Zhents,
Caedym Shadowhock
(caedym@aol.com)
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Artikerus Blindhammer
- Sojourner
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, Florida United States
Touche Caedym,
I jumped right on the bchanter band wagon right when it came up. And still plan to once these bard and chanter ideas come to fruit. Which they MUST to survive this mud.
But, I realize also that these two classes, battle chanter and bard, are entirely area/group oriented and thus, if were too powerful would be totally devestating to the balance of the mud.
There comes time that a mud holds TOO many classes, has TOO many roles filled that it may just be too hard to further embellish a class. Bards/Chanters, being area utility classes without the entire "she-bang" added in are trying to fill a role already being stuffed with conjurers, enchanters, shamans, and druids. They've become definitely and only a Fun Class To Play.
Regretfully so: I had my Bard up to 28 on Toril last year. I loved him so.
Revival to the class? Well, the eq ideas posted above are definitely a good start. Re-strengthening the heal song. POSSIBLY adding spells to the class (bleh, Duris did that and it didn't seem to help -TOO- much, but added a bit of solo and nuking power).
My favorite idea (and I'm always for more spells, skills, and specializing) is let bards get about 20 new songs. (haha!) and then they can specialize in a "type" of music. Bards might specialize in drumming and put out some kicking Song of Heroism's, or specialize in Flute and really destroy some mobs with Song of Sleep (I'm dusty with my rememberence of what song goes with what instrument) Add in a few songs specific to each instrument, and add specialize generic so there can be the true Jack of All Trades Bard who can play all the instruments fairly well, and we have...a slight, rebirth.
Of course, this will take time. Lots of it. Coding and Building and Thinking.
Artikerus Blindhammer
Byuch Yuch Bloodtusk
Ssixxizzirrill
P.S. - no use irking or complaining to the gods about it. Graciously alert them to the dire need of help to the class is best. I don't see anything else we can really do. Have to understand the mud has a limited amount of Coders, and those Coders have a limited amount of time. I do believe they're still working on a 15+ page Constitution revamp, as well as many other bugs and revamps and such. The Bard is not a -primary- class, and sorry to sound like it's putting you true virtuoso's out, but is not essential to the mudding experience and life as a whole. Players can do major zones, exp fully, etc. without Bards, and regretfully must be put on the backburners until something can be done appropriately in their direction. - A/B-6-ByBy
I jumped right on the bchanter band wagon right when it came up. And still plan to once these bard and chanter ideas come to fruit. Which they MUST to survive this mud.
But, I realize also that these two classes, battle chanter and bard, are entirely area/group oriented and thus, if were too powerful would be totally devestating to the balance of the mud.
There comes time that a mud holds TOO many classes, has TOO many roles filled that it may just be too hard to further embellish a class. Bards/Chanters, being area utility classes without the entire "she-bang" added in are trying to fill a role already being stuffed with conjurers, enchanters, shamans, and druids. They've become definitely and only a Fun Class To Play.
Regretfully so: I had my Bard up to 28 on Toril last year. I loved him so.
Revival to the class? Well, the eq ideas posted above are definitely a good start. Re-strengthening the heal song. POSSIBLY adding spells to the class (bleh, Duris did that and it didn't seem to help -TOO- much, but added a bit of solo and nuking power).
My favorite idea (and I'm always for more spells, skills, and specializing) is let bards get about 20 new songs. (haha!) and then they can specialize in a "type" of music. Bards might specialize in drumming and put out some kicking Song of Heroism's, or specialize in Flute and really destroy some mobs with Song of Sleep (I'm dusty with my rememberence of what song goes with what instrument) Add in a few songs specific to each instrument, and add specialize generic so there can be the true Jack of All Trades Bard who can play all the instruments fairly well, and we have...a slight, rebirth.
Of course, this will take time. Lots of it. Coding and Building and Thinking.
Artikerus Blindhammer
Byuch Yuch Bloodtusk
Ssixxizzirrill
P.S. - no use irking or complaining to the gods about it. Graciously alert them to the dire need of help to the class is best. I don't see anything else we can really do. Have to understand the mud has a limited amount of Coders, and those Coders have a limited amount of time. I do believe they're still working on a 15+ page Constitution revamp, as well as many other bugs and revamps and such. The Bard is not a -primary- class, and sorry to sound like it's putting you true virtuoso's out, but is not essential to the mudding experience and life as a whole. Players can do major zones, exp fully, etc. without Bards, and regretfully must be put on the backburners until something can be done appropriately in their direction. - A/B-6-ByBy
I really appreciate the support and ideas from everyone, and Caed, its truly sad that you'll not be playing, We'll miss you I have to defend the imms a bit,they did work hard and long on the bardsong and finally got that blasted stutter fixed {how annoying was that heh) and I REALLY appreciate all the work they've done getting the Mud back up and all the improvements.I understand that Bards aren't a "primary" class...and they have better things to work on, but why take time out of their busy schedule to specifically downgrade bards, its something I don't understand and I hope we can get an answer and maybe a solution
Kobei
I have to defend the imms a bit,they did work hard and long on the bardsong and finally got that blasted stutter fixed {how annoying was that heh) and I REALLY appreciate all the work they've done getting the Mud back up and all the improvements.I understand that Bards aren't a "primary" class...and they have better things to work on, but why take time out of their busy schedule to specifically downgrade bards, its something I don't understand and I hope we can get an answer and maybe a solution Kobei
-
Hamibugan Sinweaver
- Sojourner
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Japan
Hrmm,
I don't know anything of Bards or of Caedyms situation, but I'd like to point a couple of things out if I may.
The gods have been working there butts off to fix, upgrade, and in general make this place somewhere that MANY people would come and come back to. Unfortunately I'm sure that list is continuing to grow daily. Check the news, the gods are working on diligently on many, many issues that were previously brought up and are continuing to be brought up. My assumption is that they will be looked into soon enough.
I hope that noone is basing the amount played of a brand new race right now, tons of people are playing races and classes that I'm willing to be they won't be playing next month. People are experimenting alot. My suggestion would be if you have a serious concern Kobei and you don't feel it is being answered here to bring it up in a petition and track down the person you need to be giving your feedback to directly.
------------------
That is all. Peace.
Hami
I don't know anything of Bards or of Caedyms situation, but I'd like to point a couple of things out if I may.
The gods have been working there butts off to fix, upgrade, and in general make this place somewhere that MANY people would come and come back to. Unfortunately I'm sure that list is continuing to grow daily. Check the news, the gods are working on diligently on many, many issues that were previously brought up and are continuing to be brought up. My assumption is that they will be looked into soon enough.
I hope that noone is basing the amount played of a brand new race right now, tons of people are playing races and classes that I'm willing to be they won't be playing next month. People are experimenting alot. My suggestion would be if you have a serious concern Kobei and you don't feel it is being answered here to bring it up in a petition and track down the person you need to be giving your feedback to directly.
------------------
That is all. Peace.
Hami
I think that its sad you're leaving Caedym. I know I've grouped with you in one form or another on several occaisions. I may not utilize bards to their fullest, but I always appreciate their presence. You're one of the best too.
I think the staff has worked long and hard and the changes they've made are great overall. Its too bad that you seem to feel like you cannot contribute anything. I sure do.
Best of luck and hope you'll reconsider.
Izarek
I think the staff has worked long and hard and the changes they've made are great overall. Its too bad that you seem to feel like you cannot contribute anything. I sure do.
Best of luck and hope you'll reconsider.
Izarek
Caedym, what you said was right on. I played a bard for a long while... some may remember the raspberry loving Lirblie Lilyberry. I loved playing my bard!
When I first got a glimpse of the bards in alpha I was very disappointed. Sure, they threw in some new songs, but getting to a decent level to play those songs is useless.
I loved the fact that you could roll up a bard to be battle oriented or cleric oriented. But now, you can't even wear battle gear with the new class equip restrictions.
I understand that the gods have been working hard to make this a balanced mud. I've seen the great work they've done with alot of the classes, like druid, my prime character. But I do feel they have forgotten the bard.
I think that if no improvements are going to be made to the bard class then perhaps it should be taken from the game. Yet, if the gods have plans to improve bards, then Lirblie will once again enliven the masses with her joyful spirit and happy tune.
If the gods do read this, at least let us know that something is in the works, or its on the drawing board, or something is going to change! We just want information
Kelsi
When I first got a glimpse of the bards in alpha I was very disappointed. Sure, they threw in some new songs, but getting to a decent level to play those songs is useless.
I loved the fact that you could roll up a bard to be battle oriented or cleric oriented. But now, you can't even wear battle gear with the new class equip restrictions.
I understand that the gods have been working hard to make this a balanced mud. I've seen the great work they've done with alot of the classes, like druid, my prime character. But I do feel they have forgotten the bard.
I think that if no improvements are going to be made to the bard class then perhaps it should be taken from the game. Yet, if the gods have plans to improve bards, then Lirblie will once again enliven the masses with her joyful spirit and happy tune.
If the gods do read this, at least let us know that something is in the works, or its on the drawing board, or something is going to change! We just want information
Kelsi
oh btw, I had this idea a while ago: since area silence was taken out, why not give it to the bards? I mean they have magical powers with regard to sound, so why not make them sing something that, while it isn't exactly silence, drowns out things to the point of even interfering with spellcasting? This would make them a lot more useful, as the only area silencers.
caedym - say it ain't so!
Oh, one more thing - how about giving bards a highlevel song that helps increase casters' memming speed, maybe up their chance of getting meditation check. I know a lot of us like to study with music on and find it helpful, and of course there's all those studies about classical music helping people learn. And let's not forget music is an integral part of a lot of religious devotions, so it could at least help clerical types.
caedym - say it ain't so!
Oh, one more thing - how about giving bards a highlevel song that helps increase casters' memming speed, maybe up their chance of getting meditation check. I know a lot of us like to study with music on and find it helpful, and of course there's all those studies about classical music helping people learn. And let's not forget music is an integral part of a lot of religious devotions, so it could at least help clerical types.
I like the idea of the area silence. But would suggest it become more of a disturbance, you can't chat in a hardrock cafe when the music is at max sound... It would make more sense.
And the idea of better mem times is great, some nice music relaxes me a lot, but the wrong one (a stutter?) could ruine the work..
greetings,
Almile
And the idea of better mem times is great, some nice music relaxes me a lot, but the wrong one (a stutter?) could ruine the work..
greetings,
Almile
That's actually a pretty good idea I've seen done to some extent on another mud.
Bards could play relaxing, mind opening/attuning melodies that increased the learning potential of their audiences. The increase was based upon the skills of the bard with that particular set of songs. Bards with poor skills and lower charisma even stood a chance of hampering the absorption of skills of their listeners, like trying to study in a karaoke bar where everybody wants to try opera but only has experience with George Jones.
Hmmmm, there's a thought...
Just an opinion, but perhaps bards with poor skills and lower charisma should risk aggroing wandering mobs when they sing, you know, the old 'shoe at the cat on the fence' thing.
(Just joking, just joking, don't hurt me!)
Ellyriel - farm elf from Oklahoma
(actually likes bards, she swears)
Bards could play relaxing, mind opening/attuning melodies that increased the learning potential of their audiences. The increase was based upon the skills of the bard with that particular set of songs. Bards with poor skills and lower charisma even stood a chance of hampering the absorption of skills of their listeners, like trying to study in a karaoke bar where everybody wants to try opera but only has experience with George Jones.
Hmmmm, there's a thought...
Just an opinion, but perhaps bards with poor skills and lower charisma should risk aggroing wandering mobs when they sing, you know, the old 'shoe at the cat on the fence' thing.
(Just joking, just joking, don't hurt me!)
Ellyriel - farm elf from Oklahoma
(actually likes bards, she swears)
How about song combination with multiple bards? Instead of area silence, if you have say 2 or 3 bards along, they could play a certain song at the same time, only useful when played together, that was so loud and obnoxious, it caused casters to loose concentration more often or something. Just an idea for any zones with !bash casters.
Stuff is on its way guys. Most of the ideas in the thread about bards singing together for enhanced effects has been brought up before. I'm also sorry to hear Caedym won't be returning, I didn't even know him, personally, but his name is big...so, my condolences.
I have a degree in music. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. I never played a bard because it was nothing like what I know music to be. But what I DO know, is that imms are working on stuff and the more constructive and concise feedback you give, they will implement what is possible. So keep the ideas and feedback rolling. Just because an IMM has posted yet doesn't mean there isn't a dialogue or ideas already on their way.
If I played the one class most true to my life it would be a bard. After seeing what it's like to play them (and I agree with previous notions that's boring!) I went another route. It was the first thing I ever rolled up...when the changes come...I'll reconsider.
Wobb
I have a degree in music. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. I never played a bard because it was nothing like what I know music to be. But what I DO know, is that imms are working on stuff and the more constructive and concise feedback you give, they will implement what is possible. So keep the ideas and feedback rolling. Just because an IMM has posted yet doesn't mean there isn't a dialogue or ideas already on their way.
If I played the one class most true to my life it would be a bard. After seeing what it's like to play them (and I agree with previous notions that's boring!) I went another route. It was the first thing I ever rolled up...when the changes come...I'll reconsider.
Wobb
A few musings:
1. Bards in AD&D have the ability to cast mage spells... albeit low level ones. This would seem to fit into the forgotten realms aspect of the mud (this was suggested by a friend of mine).
2. Why can't a bard sing while fighting? Would it actually be that broken? (Particularly now that they can't wear all eq that's in the game).
Well, only two musings, really. The first one is, I think, the way to go.
1. Bards in AD&D have the ability to cast mage spells... albeit low level ones. This would seem to fit into the forgotten realms aspect of the mud (this was suggested by a friend of mine).
2. Why can't a bard sing while fighting? Would it actually be that broken? (Particularly now that they can't wear all eq that's in the game).
Well, only two musings, really. The first one is, I think, the way to go.
Bards in 3E are much more useful than 2E bards.
They can cast both Arcane(Mage) spells, and Divine(Clerical) spells. Both are relatively low powered, and they get VERY VERY little of them, but it's a great addition to the class. Their songs are nice, but they are a 'jack of all trades'. And Bards need something to perk them up. I think this would be a decent idea, but cap the spells at a high end of low power. They only get utility spells in 3E anyways.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
They can cast both Arcane(Mage) spells, and Divine(Clerical) spells. Both are relatively low powered, and they get VERY VERY little of them, but it's a great addition to the class. Their songs are nice, but they are a 'jack of all trades'. And Bards need something to perk them up. I think this would be a decent idea, but cap the spells at a high end of low power. They only get utility spells in 3E anyways.
------------------
Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
While the changes to bards are being worked on would it be possible to return the bard class to where it was originally? Remove all new skills, songs etc that have been added and return the class to where it was in Sojourn 2/Toril? This would make the bard useful to groups until the new changes are implemented.
As well, make battlechanters orc bards with both classes having the same skills/songs. When the new changes are ready then change the class accordingly at that time.
Good Journeys
Tsaej Mallorn
As well, make battlechanters orc bards with both classes having the same skills/songs. When the new changes are ready then change the class accordingly at that time.
Good Journeys
Tsaej Mallorn
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>We're aware of the problems with bards and are currently working on a plan to bring them up to snuff once and for all.
Nuff said?
-- Shevy</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nuff said!!!
<B>We're aware of the problems with bards and are currently working on a plan to bring them up to snuff once and for all.
Nuff said?
-- Shevy</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nuff said!!!
-
Guest
I've been working pretty hard on getting Bards up to snuff, as I think they are pretty horrible right now. They don't have a niche, they don't work well in big zones, they are utterly worthless against dragons, area spells hurt them, etc.
Bards should be +style above all, with function and skill to back it up. Right now, they are neither. So, I'm fixing them. I've been talking to the bards I find playing, that I know have played 40+ in previous instances of the mud, and have gotten new ideas, new ways of doing things, what they want, don't want, etc. And I've worked up a pretty good proposal on how it should be and am already imp'ing these changes on testmud. I ask that you all be patient, for I am working as hard as I can to make this class fun, playable and above all stylish :)
I've got changes for eq, for songs, for skills, for general playability, I'm trying to leave nothing unturned.
If you have anything that you think needs looked at, or you have any great ideas of new songs, skills, etc..email them to me. I listen and read everything I get, and if its a good solution, I have no problems using them. If you don't want to email, send me a tell, just cause I'm a demon doesn't mean I'm a mean demon :)
All I ask is for some patience, I will make bards cool.
-Gargamel.
------------------
Gargauth the Outcast
Bards should be +style above all, with function and skill to back it up. Right now, they are neither. So, I'm fixing them. I've been talking to the bards I find playing, that I know have played 40+ in previous instances of the mud, and have gotten new ideas, new ways of doing things, what they want, don't want, etc. And I've worked up a pretty good proposal on how it should be and am already imp'ing these changes on testmud. I ask that you all be patient, for I am working as hard as I can to make this class fun, playable and above all stylish :)
I've got changes for eq, for songs, for skills, for general playability, I'm trying to leave nothing unturned.
If you have anything that you think needs looked at, or you have any great ideas of new songs, skills, etc..email them to me. I listen and read everything I get, and if its a good solution, I have no problems using them. If you don't want to email, send me a tell, just cause I'm a demon doesn't mean I'm a mean demon :)
All I ask is for some patience, I will make bards cool.
-Gargamel.
------------------
Gargauth the Outcast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gargamel:
<B>I've been working pretty hard on getting Bards up to snuff, as I think they are pretty horrible right now. They don't have a niche, they don't work well in big zones, they are utterly worthless against dragons, area spells hurt them, etc.
If you have anything that you think needs looked at, or you have any great ideas of new songs, skills, etc..email them to me. I listen and read everything I get, and if its a good solution, I have no problems using them. If you don't want to email, send me a tell, just cause I'm a demon doesn't mean I'm a mean demon
All I ask is for some patience, I will make bards cool.
-Gargamel.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You don't have to look far.
http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000006.html
A lot of your concerns above were addressed, and solutions proposed in the aforementioned thread.
I never viewed you as being mean Gar, quite the opposite.
As for the line "I will make bards cool." This alarms me. I am in the gaming industry. Yes, I work for an actual game company. Yaa me. I don't know of a singular person who was able to envision a successful solution to game problem or a particular aspect of that game by themselves. It takes people. Give and take feedback to make something worth a dam. In fact, in the industry it is very much looked down upon people who think they have all the answers, or come to quick resolutions to problems without discussing it. Calm down, I'm not implying anything, just stating something because I've been there. You appear open to suggestion and a willingness to work with others, a prime good in this endeavor. I never quite understood the lack of give and take conversation on the previous thread between the staff and player base, as well as this one. Shevarash's we are doing something nuff said bit, further illustrates the complete lack of OPEN communication between the staff and players about the class. No offense Shev, just using you as an example of my point is all. For all intensive purposes, there might be a huge discussion going on amongst the staff about Bards. I wouldn’t know. But I do know, that there isn’t one going on between staff and players.
My point is, the ranger talks were very open for discussion, and Miax even stated that one particular ranger posted a solid plan for how they were now going to handle the class. There was so much in the ways of debate about the class, coming from all sides of the forum. Granted, a lot more people play rangers then bards, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a good number of the staff had done this, but I doubt so many did the primary bard journey as I and only a smidgeon of others have. So I ask you, why isn’t there a more open dialogue between players, especially those people who’ve played a high level one, and staff with Bards? Can we change this, starting now?
I see little benefit asking people entirely new to class or that haven’t played it to a significant level for input on what to do with it, as opposed to discussing it with the established few who have.
What can I, as someone not on the staff, do to help the Bard plight? Is there some way I can assess their abilities or contribute to their betterment?
Please let us know. I grow weary of watching this class deteriorate, for it is as annoying as waiting 6 years for the Drow.
Caedym Shadowhock
Caedym@aol.com
(My email works btw.)
<B>I've been working pretty hard on getting Bards up to snuff, as I think they are pretty horrible right now. They don't have a niche, they don't work well in big zones, they are utterly worthless against dragons, area spells hurt them, etc.
If you have anything that you think needs looked at, or you have any great ideas of new songs, skills, etc..email them to me. I listen and read everything I get, and if its a good solution, I have no problems using them. If you don't want to email, send me a tell, just cause I'm a demon doesn't mean I'm a mean demon
All I ask is for some patience, I will make bards cool.
-Gargamel.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You don't have to look far.
http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000006.html
A lot of your concerns above were addressed, and solutions proposed in the aforementioned thread.
I never viewed you as being mean Gar, quite the opposite.
As for the line "I will make bards cool." This alarms me. I am in the gaming industry. Yes, I work for an actual game company. Yaa me. I don't know of a singular person who was able to envision a successful solution to game problem or a particular aspect of that game by themselves. It takes people. Give and take feedback to make something worth a dam. In fact, in the industry it is very much looked down upon people who think they have all the answers, or come to quick resolutions to problems without discussing it. Calm down, I'm not implying anything, just stating something because I've been there. You appear open to suggestion and a willingness to work with others, a prime good in this endeavor. I never quite understood the lack of give and take conversation on the previous thread between the staff and player base, as well as this one. Shevarash's we are doing something nuff said bit, further illustrates the complete lack of OPEN communication between the staff and players about the class. No offense Shev, just using you as an example of my point is all. For all intensive purposes, there might be a huge discussion going on amongst the staff about Bards. I wouldn’t know. But I do know, that there isn’t one going on between staff and players.
My point is, the ranger talks were very open for discussion, and Miax even stated that one particular ranger posted a solid plan for how they were now going to handle the class. There was so much in the ways of debate about the class, coming from all sides of the forum. Granted, a lot more people play rangers then bards, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a good number of the staff had done this, but I doubt so many did the primary bard journey as I and only a smidgeon of others have. So I ask you, why isn’t there a more open dialogue between players, especially those people who’ve played a high level one, and staff with Bards? Can we change this, starting now?
I see little benefit asking people entirely new to class or that haven’t played it to a significant level for input on what to do with it, as opposed to discussing it with the established few who have.
What can I, as someone not on the staff, do to help the Bard plight? Is there some way I can assess their abilities or contribute to their betterment?
Please let us know. I grow weary of watching this class deteriorate, for it is as annoying as waiting 6 years for the Drow.
Caedym Shadowhock
Caedym@aol.com
(My email works btw.)
I think alot of what goes on is behind the scenes, but involves reading the posts on this bbs (and talking to people in-game, I'd imagine).
Just because you don't see the conversation going on between the immortals, doesn't mean that it isn't. I doubt he was implying that he alone, without any input from anyone else, was going to fix the situation.
Just because you don't see the conversation going on between the immortals, doesn't mean that it isn't. I doubt he was implying that he alone, without any input from anyone else, was going to fix the situation.
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Uthgar
- Staff Member - Coder
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Chatsworth, CA, USA
Kiloppile is correct. Most of the staff reads these threads daily, and uses information gleaned from them to fuel discussion on our own private discusson board. Furthermore, throughout the re-design process we have consulted with players repeatedly. Last night I specifically invited one prominent long-time bard to email me with suggestions for Gargauth to use on bards. Perhaps you might do the same. To be honest, bards were not the primary focus of any coder during redevelopment, and were, to some extent, an afterthought. That shows in their current state. We could have waited another couple months to open instead of leaving some classes "unfinished", but we did not. I know Gargauth works on the bard code daily, and I have looked at what he is doing. Trust us and be patient that bards will be fixed, and that your comments and these threads are taken into consideration, even if we don't specifically tell you we are using them.
Uthgar
Uthgar
-
Eilorn
- Sojourner
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Salt Lake City,UT,USA 84116
- Contact:
As you can see from the dates in the replies in this thread, the last one is over 6 months ago. I know there have been other concerns, but, any chance of us getting an update? I've seen Gargauth on quite a bit lately... anything going on? Heck, I'd trade lore/disguise/virtuoso/whatever, just to get old bards back. I guess becoming a total hoser makes you appreciate what you had :-)
Eilorn.
[This message has been edited by Eilorn (edited 11-26-2001).]
Eilorn.
[This message has been edited by Eilorn (edited 11-26-2001).]
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Eilorn
- Sojourner
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Salt Lake City,UT,USA 84116
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>We're aware of the problems with bards and are currently working on a plan to bring them up to snuff once and for all.
Nuff said?
-- Shevy</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shev,
It's going on 8 months since you said this, could you say a little more?
Eilorn
<B>We're aware of the problems with bards and are currently working on a plan to bring them up to snuff once and for all.
Nuff said?
-- Shevy</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shev,
It's going on 8 months since you said this, could you say a little more?
Eilorn
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