Somewhat crappy spells

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Taka
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Somewhat crappy spells

Postby Taka » Sat Jan 26, 2002 12:36 am

Here are some spells I believe should be slightly improved. Their basic concept is cool, but because of the way they are implemented there usefullness become too limited. I also provide suggestions on how to improve them since I want this to be constructive feed back rather then rant. Some other people may also have interesting feed back to offer on what they think of them and/or other suggestions.

Earthquake:
Sounds like a very cool spell. Unfortunatly using it make all tank/basher/caster in your group want to kill you. Therefore it end up not being used. I think the solution to make this spell more interesting would be to reduce the % of affecting the peoples who are groupped with you. I would not eliminate it, I think it is interesting to have some chance of affecting negativly your friends, but I think it should be a very small %. Remember that all other room spells do NOT damage your party, so this being the only spell that hurt your party, I would make it less likely to have that effect. Would make it fun in small group, and would cause bigger group to consider it in some situations.
(on a side note, has anyone every used it to get someone killed?)


Blind:
Cool spell, but duration should increase so that it last longer at higher level (maybe 2-3 times as long at 50). It is not all that easy to land on some mobs, and only last for a few rounds. Fight at higher level last longer so it would make sense that the blindness last longer when cast by higher level. Other option would be to make it easyer to blind... I think I would go with last longer tho.


Silence Person:
ROFL!!!
When I first got it, I tryed it somewhat and concluded it wasn't working so not worth even trying. I retryed it recently (I was 40 when tryed) on a mob 2 or 3 levels LESS then me, and to cast it succesfully it took me 5 attempts the first time, and 6 the second time. So I can only imagine if I was to cast that on a mob that is worth killing for exp (and therefore higher then me) or for eq (even higher). Lenght is ridiculously short. I think it needs to be easyer to land, and the lenght extended somewhat. I think it is ridiculous that it works MUCH better to ask a level 20 war to come bash the level 50 mob that you are trying to kill, then to try to use a spell you got at higher level that is being cast by a much higher level (than 20). In group of 4+. What typicaly happen when I try to cast that, is that before I am successfull, either the mob die, or -I- am the one that get silenced! Shouldn't -20 ss bring me to such a state where it would be hard to actualy silence me??? It seems to me like slience from mob to players does not take into account the save spells, or not enough.


Curse/Hex:
I don't know exactly how much those 2 spells differ, I would assume they are about the same. My experimentation with one of them showed it has little impact on making stuff like blind/slience work better (or blind and slience are sooo hard to land on mob higher level then you that the increase become unnoticable). Also the fact that they are sooo hard to land themself (although I believe it becomes a bit easyer as you get higher in level) that even if it was to change the % to get a silence to work go from 15% to 20%, it would probably more efficient to just try to silence (then again because silence is so hard to land, I don't use it either, I prefer to go for that level 20 war). Making Curse/Hex more effective in making other spells more likely to succeed and making it easyer to be successfull would reduce the problems I was discussing with other previous spells.


Those suggestions are to fine tune the classes with those spells, I am not saying they are problematic as bards, just that simple changes may make some of their skills become more usefull and therefore offer them more options.

Anyway, these are my thought, I would like to see what other peoples think. And most specificly, those people who use those spells. I'd also like you people to consider how well those spells behave at different level (unlike most who post here, not everyone is 50) and in different situations (exp, zoning, CR, ...).
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Postby Wargo » Sat Jan 26, 2002 1:29 am

Taka, I'm assuming you are playing a cleric or shaman? Curse is a very useful spell. It makes all the spells you listed more potent. Silence person is an extremely powerful spell. It allows clerics to solo a lot of stuff. It makes zones a lot easier like enchanters major para. Blind is only good when you are solo. In a group, almost all the warriors have blinding weapons. Earthquake is only useful in certain situations. Find it.

Yssilk
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Sat Jan 26, 2002 1:39 am

What you need to do is use those spells in combination... Curse/Hex, and then silence person.

And yes, you can solo some stuff, but be prepared to take a looooooooong time. =P
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Sat Jan 26, 2002 1:44 am

Oh and PS - kudos for posting up. As you pointed out, not that many mid/low levels post.

Personally, I'm still a midlevel by many peoples' definition :P .

If you have a goodie char, look me up, I'll take you zoning sometime.

Incidentally, it helps to recognize that things like spell duration and % chance to hit are geared for zoning. Sure, 20% chance for silence to land might be ultracrappy for soloing. But if I'm trying to do Malice, and I have 2 fhealers, a shaman, another druid and myself, all with the silence spell, anything higher than about 20% would make it too much of a breeze to silence Malice. (This is my understanding of the imms' position, not my own position...)

Thus good spells are given low % chance to land, and thus the soloing people are at a severe disadvantage. I believe this is done on purpose.

[This message has been edited by moritheil (edited 01-25-2002).]
Taka
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Postby Taka » Sat Jan 26, 2002 1:55 am

I did not say those spells were WEAK. I said their % and lenght make think I am better off casting other stuff.

Mob that con easy and is cursed/hexed taking 5.5 attempt to get silenced seems wrong to me.

A warrior that is 20 level lower then the mob would be able to keep the mob bashed (quite reliably). Added to that, the warrior will be able to have proc on weapon to ray/blind, and can use potion to get armor and vit (and to some extend use that to heal self a little bit). Sure the warrior would need to have the knowledge/help to get those weapon/potions, but still...


There is lots of fighter type weapon that proc stuff so that they don't need other class that much (ray, blind, heal, stone, nuke,...). I would like it if at least the spells that other class have were more usefull.

Also something that could be interesting would be like eq that proc same kind of stuff as the class(es) which can use rather then of some other classes. By example a !war!mage!thi weapon that proc heal (either on self or on tank), or a invoker only weapon that proc room dam. That would be less unbalancing (since it does not steal other's job) and would allow other classes to have cool toys as well (beside it is kindda dumb to have everyon holding a bunch of nebulas).
Taka
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Postby Taka » Sat Jan 26, 2002 2:04 am

Wargo wrote:
Blind is only good when you are solo.

Exactly my point, make it last longer, as it is right now, it takes a while to get it to work, then you have to heal self, then you only have time to cast 1 or 2 offensive spells and it is time to start casting blind again (and at that point you probably need to mem some more).

It won't impact much in huge group since people can PWB smaller mobs and there will be multiple people to blind + weapon. Also big group also means the mobs won't last all that long.
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Postby Teyaha » Sat Jan 26, 2002 3:01 am

more examples of spells that could use a better hit rate or some more usefulness.

stumble
fumble
enervate
ray
feeblemind
PWB
major para


pattern....?
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Postby Ashiwi » Sat Jan 26, 2002 3:22 am

I use blind poisons frequently, especially in zones where there are mass mobs in and out, and the chances of switching are high. Anything to keep the casters alive a bit longer.
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Postby rylan » Sat Jan 26, 2002 6:45 pm

Some feedback from my point of view:

Quake, its a very powerful spell since it can knock down !bash casters. However, I do agree that the % chance to knock down group members could be reduced a bit.

Blind: I only use it when soloing, and even then not often. Duration is too short for me to bother, even at lvl 50. Never gets used in zoning, since other blind effects work better and last longer.

Silence Person: I think its been tweaked almost perfectly. Duration is long enough to save a zone group from getting spanked. I don't tihnk it should last long enough for you to solo a big mob with.

Curse/Hex: They are slightly differant, but essentially both reduce mob spellsave. I found curse/hex hits fairly well in zones (it should be noticably easier to land than other stuff). Curse and/or Hex and you have a good chance of landing a silence. I just would like to see curse duration upped, since it doesn't seem to last more than 2 min.
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Postby Gormal » Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:24 pm

quake rocks, sil rocks...leave em be...if you dont wanna get knocked down dont have crappy attributes.
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Postby Grintor » Sat Jan 26, 2002 8:13 pm

full circle to the char creation page now? i thought you all agreed that you dont need good stats to play the game? heh
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Postby kiryan » Sun Jan 27, 2002 2:43 am

you dont need good stats to play the game. there is hordes of agility eq.

also, why make agility less important by reducing % fall on earthquake? this is something that is good for high agi races like elves and bad for some of the high con races like dwarves and ogres. and... do you really want to make cleric mobs #1 offensive spell (well after holy/unholy word) any more powerful?
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Postby Dakrish » Sun Jan 27, 2002 5:20 am

Hrm, Taka..It may seem this way now for you, but once you get higher it all changes. Warrior soloing becomes almost pathetic, whereas enchanter/clerics/shamans/druids is much better. I'm not sure what i'm exactly saying, I just want to point out to you that it does get better, despite how it seems now.

Keep on post'in!

peACe oUt
laterZ
gyrx
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Sun Jan 27, 2002 8:16 am

silence is incredibly powerful. maybe you dont know beacuse your not zoning level? most high level stuff is high level because of !bash casters. Making silence be more successful would drastically alter upper level game balance in player favor. Then again, how would you like cleric mobs to land silences often and cast it instead of quake? that would be a bitch. As for duration, its long enough in high end encounters, so improving it would only add to the twink uses of the spell.

As for cleric blind, id like to see it last for 40 or 50 rounds. right now, it seems to last maybe 20? its next to worthless in zone, exp, and solo. who blinds when you chain bash every mob you can and get more exp for chain healing? only reason to cast blind is in solo.

curse/hex? would be nice if they lasted longer, but the effect is difficult at best to gauge. personally i havent seen it be significant so either im not paying attention or the duration is so fleeting its impact is minimal or simply that the spell is worthless?? Is it really such a powerful spell that he duration couldnt be substantial or semi-permanent? maybe full harm would be useful?
Taka
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Postby Taka » Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:47 am

Thanks for your comments all.

So I guess for earthquake and silence, making those usefull in solo/small group would unbalance zonning too much.

But I still think that blind duration should be increased as one raise in level.

And curse/hex could either last longer or be easyer to cast.
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Postby Gort » Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:34 pm

On Hex and Blind:

Both land significantly more often the better your skill is in that category. They are extremely useful in solo work, and Hex is also in higher levels. Keep plugging away, the percentage you land them will increase.

The duration of blind seemed good to me, unless its been reduced, you should be able to unload all your offense, or the lion's share of it before the mob can see again.

I agree on the quake bit, but agility is definately important there.

Good observations, and keep it up!

Toplack
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:21 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>silence is incredibly powerful. maybe you dont know beacuse your not zoning level? most high level stuff is high level because of !bash casters. Making silence be more successful would drastically alter upper level game balance in player favor. Then again, how would you like cleric mobs to land silences often and cast it instead of quake? that would be a bitch. As for duration, its long enough in high end encounters, so improving it would only add to the twink uses of the spell.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shhh kiryan don't warn them! *nodme*
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Postby Grungar » Tue Jan 29, 2002 4:08 am

Sure glad no one's busting on my favorite spell of all time. Ventriloquate is the bomb.

- Grungar "I survived Florida and all I got was this lousy bloodstained t-shirt to prove it" Forgefire
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Postby Tilandal » Mon Feb 04, 2002 9:55 am

On blind,

Blind is a low level spell and is very useful at low levels until about mid 30. After that it is pointless but then again would anyone be using thier 3'rd cirlce spells all that often in level 50 fights?

Spells just get phased out as you advance in level. If you upped blind duration why would anyone need to use PWB?

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