ok ive read the threads but enchanter exp is insane. less insane than previous wipes and yes they are an incredibly powerful class and having tons of them around might be a bad thing in terms of twink and fewer groups for the few that bother to put in the effort, but a 2% per 30 minute gain rate at level 49 on smoke is atrocious considering its some of the best exp in the game and she has like 0 trophy. A failed ress is what 5 RL hours of excellent exp? (enc lose 20% per death at 49)
The worst part is that their exp never ends. Why? Because your going to die occasionally in zone (they dont seem to get switched to much which is very very nice but spanks will always happen and they dont have the benefit of word), but you dont make any exp zoning. I love it when we do CC, JOT, scorps, smoke invasion and folks are going damn this is good exp, 2,3,4,5 notches and she checks her exp but she hasnt notched even 1x. insanity.
Maybe its the price we pay for having 1-45 easier. 1-45 was bearable. 46-47 was tough 48-50 is insane. If the trade off is less power easier exp then i guess folks would probably choose more power. Still, id guess that at least 40+, an enchanter levels as fast as a warrior 6 levels higher. Another irksome thing is that you get your best exp by meleeing and casting dam not your group oriented spells like haste and blur. enchantment exp would be a good thing.
Something to ponder after you fix the classes that suck (ele/bard/conj)
enchanter exp is insane
the enchanters agree with this assessment, at least this enchanter does.
in smoke, just me and ruagh or just me and gura, they get 1 notch per kill, i get one notch per 4 kills, and i'm casting 8-10 constricts per fight!
i've never had this many played days on a character who hadnt been level 50 for a few months, not even my druid from the toril days whom arguably had the worst xp table of that era next to necros.
in smoke, just me and ruagh or just me and gura, they get 1 notch per kill, i get one notch per 4 kills, and i'm casting 8-10 constricts per fight!
i've never had this many played days on a character who hadnt been level 50 for a few months, not even my druid from the toril days whom arguably had the worst xp table of that era next to necros.
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kiryan
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ouch jurdex. had no idea cleric exp was that bad. 4% per hour was the best you could do? your as good as they come, so I am inclined to believe you, but gods have stated enc have worst exp gain rate... if she can do 4% per hour you should be able to do better.
Also, id say that the average enchanter isn't going to be so lucky as to have a well equipped troll tank to personally exp them. Average enc gain rate is prolly closer to 2% per 40 minutes. Good race enchanters id guess are prolly less lucky as far as exp comes. Then again, I guess they have paladins...
Also, id say that the average enchanter isn't going to be so lucky as to have a well equipped troll tank to personally exp them. Average enc gain rate is prolly closer to 2% per 40 minutes. Good race enchanters id guess are prolly less lucky as far as exp comes. Then again, I guess they have paladins...
The best exp for me was soloing the Archmage in the tower or soloing Brimir. Each took about 20 mins to do. Then I had to wait for pop in tower or re-walk jot grid back to Brimirs.
I got all the damage and healing exp.
I was doing better than an enchanter. However, cleric exp is pretty tough too. If we do a good exp zone like TF or Jot, an enchanter notches faster than I do.
Also, goodie enchanters solo just the same.
What is your deal with paladins? You trip me out man. They aint that great. :P
Dornax
Jurdex
[This message has been edited by Jurdex (edited 01-21-2002).]
I got all the damage and healing exp.
I was doing better than an enchanter. However, cleric exp is pretty tough too. If we do a good exp zone like TF or Jot, an enchanter notches faster than I do.
Also, goodie enchanters solo just the same.
What is your deal with paladins? You trip me out man. They aint that great. :P
Dornax
Jurdex
[This message has been edited by Jurdex (edited 01-21-2002).]
Yeah Kiyran, cleric xp is a massive pain too
But to be honest, lvl 49 xp -should- suck.. getting lvl 50 is supposed to be hard. I think it took me a month to get lvl 49 and another month to get 50.. of course I wasn't really doing hardcore xp all the time, thats mostly from zone xp, so you get the idea.
But to be honest, lvl 49 xp -should- suck.. getting lvl 50 is supposed to be hard. I think it took me a month to get lvl 49 and another month to get 50.. of course I wasn't really doing hardcore xp all the time, thats mostly from zone xp, so you get the idea.
wow. lvl 49 folks crying cuz they can't get another 3, 6, ? hp. is there a major difference between lvl 46 & lvl 50? well for cleric i think it's another full heal. okay may 20 hp ? anyways, it's not like lvl 49 enchanter w/ scale is going to be turned down for a group cuz they not lvl 50 yet. i think its more of ego. if inesa has that much ego she needa vacation. anyways forget about enchanter xp and concentration on getting bigus digus up and running.
super sok
super sok
Heheh Dornax was doing the slow exp. As a cleric, you get very nice exp if you know what to do. At level 50, I soloed on smoke plane at the rate of 12 mins per kill and 2% per kill. That's 10% in one hour. Of course, not many clerics solo as much as I do
As for zones, back when my notches didn't max out, I was getting just about same exp as warriors maybe slower than invokers in zones like CC, Jot, TF, Manscorpion. I rarely die in zones so I pretty much leveled from 47 to 50 zoning.
On enchanter note, I have an enchanter alt at level 25 and the exp does seem significantly slower than what my cleric's rate was.
Yssilk
As for zones, back when my notches didn't max out, I was getting just about same exp as warriors maybe slower than invokers in zones like CC, Jot, TF, Manscorpion. I rarely die in zones so I pretty much leveled from 47 to 50 zoning.
On enchanter note, I have an enchanter alt at level 25 and the exp does seem significantly slower than what my cleric's rate was.
Yssilk
i remember doing tower exp with vjaerrak and hamibugan and a warrior whom i cant remember, sorry about that. anyway me and hami at same level the minute he got full heal he was levelling nearly 3 times faster. this mainly because i was stoning my ass off and running out to mem them back. cleric gets healing xp. this was before the xp change a few months back
so in the post 46 cleric prob about as rough as chanter, but chanter rough from day 1 unless you have friends who take you to ship/tower at level 21.
so in the post 46 cleric prob about as rough as chanter, but chanter rough from day 1 unless you have friends who take you to ship/tower at level 21.
From what I undersand all the casters (Mage Class) use the same exp table. There's always posts about how hard Enchanter exp is but it's no worse than Illusionist, Elementalist or Necro exp (Invoker's get a lot more damage exp so I wouldn't group them in). A solution to one would have to help all these classes evenly or you'll just hear complaining from the other classes.
Enchanters can solo just as well as these other classes can (possibly better as higher levels) and their damage abilities are failrly close to equal.
Enchanters can solo just as well as these other classes can (possibly better as higher levels) and their damage abilities are failrly close to equal.
the only useful damaging spell we have is constriction, at level 41. the other two are area affect spells which are not particularly good for solo and not even all that effective from what i've tested wiping out stuff east of tp (the level 5 mobs were constantly left alive vs. blacklight burst.
what i would like to see that would help enchanters in the 36-46 range, which really was the roughest for me, is one single target damage spell available in 7th and 8th circles. we have nothing between cone of cold and constriction that's not area affect.
if it is true that all mage xp tables are the same, than having this 'option' would help tremendously when it's time to xp.
i know that we can solo efficiently if we have the hp gear and the ac, however not all enchanters are created equal not to mention soloing is sooooooo BORING.
my two rubles on the subject.
what i would like to see that would help enchanters in the 36-46 range, which really was the roughest for me, is one single target damage spell available in 7th and 8th circles. we have nothing between cone of cold and constriction that's not area affect.
if it is true that all mage xp tables are the same, than having this 'option' would help tremendously when it's time to xp.
i know that we can solo efficiently if we have the hp gear and the ac, however not all enchanters are created equal
not to mention soloing is sooooooo BORING.my two rubles on the subject.
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kiryan
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i suspect that the exp tables are the same for all mages, but its the damage exp that makes the difference in the exp gain rate. EDIT> guess I was wrong hehe.
I think you are very wrong in saying enchanters can do as much dam as any of the other mages. I dont think its arguable that they are anything but dead last, unless your comparing them to necros against wraith mobs (but now necros got new anti-undead spells).
A major difference between priests and enchanters is that priests will get healing exp in zone. An enchanter usually doesnt get much chance to cast offense unless they stoning only one tank, there is no enchantment exp, and their melee blows.
and im not really crying over my wife's exp, she's basically finished (50.04). I just think its a bit extreme and would benefit other enchanters a lot (well, and help her keep 50). More enchanters means more zonage.
oh and the only reason i mentioned paladins was we did a lot of 2 man exp, it was by far the best exp she did, that we couldnt have done without troll regen and vit potions. I've seen other evil enchanters do similar. I was thinking a goodie enchanter would have to have a tank and a healer, but paladins would probably be as good as a troll in 2 man exp situations. but anyways, this really isnt about paladins.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-22-2002).]
I think you are very wrong in saying enchanters can do as much dam as any of the other mages. I dont think its arguable that they are anything but dead last, unless your comparing them to necros against wraith mobs (but now necros got new anti-undead spells).
A major difference between priests and enchanters is that priests will get healing exp in zone. An enchanter usually doesnt get much chance to cast offense unless they stoning only one tank, there is no enchantment exp, and their melee blows.
and im not really crying over my wife's exp, she's basically finished (50.04). I just think its a bit extreme and would benefit other enchanters a lot (well, and help her keep 50). More enchanters means more zonage.
oh and the only reason i mentioned paladins was we did a lot of 2 man exp, it was by far the best exp she did, that we couldnt have done without troll regen and vit potions. I've seen other evil enchanters do similar. I was thinking a goodie enchanter would have to have a tank and a healer, but paladins would probably be as good as a troll in 2 man exp situations. but anyways, this really isnt about paladins.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-22-2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>2) Enchanters are hard to level on purpose.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Enchanters are probably the most important class in the game IMO, while they may not be the most fun to play, they have the most useful spells/versatile list in the game.
Constriction is more powerful than any single target offensive spell Necros or Mentalists have (Conj's had), Nightmare is probably more powerful but I doubt it makes a big difference in exp gained
Not to shoot myself in the foot, but I got hit by a constrict the other day at wizzies and it didn't hurt a whole hell of a lot (it did less than 100)
E
<B>2) Enchanters are hard to level on purpose.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Enchanters are probably the most important class in the game IMO, while they may not be the most fun to play, they have the most useful spells/versatile list in the game.
Constriction is more powerful than any single target offensive spell Necros or Mentalists have (Conj's had), Nightmare is probably more powerful but I doubt it makes a big difference in exp gained
Not to shoot myself in the foot, but I got hit by a constrict the other day at wizzies and it didn't hurt a whole hell of a lot (it did less than 100)
E
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kiryan
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enchanters are the most powerful class in the game id buy.
clerics and ressers are by far the most important class.
1. you can't get ress cept from clerics.
2. you de facto can't do !teleport zone without at least 1 ressing cleric
3. you can't get full heal cept from clerics
4. you can get strong defensive spells stone + displace without an enchanter (though scale owns)
5. you can get globe and haste from necros, lichs, and possibly elementalists?
6. conj/elementalists can PWB and pris. black light burst and major paralysis are useless in zone. feeb, dispel magic is common to mages. Fly I suppose is a key spell... plenty of fly eq.
finally, 1 enchanter is enough for a 15 man group, 2 is nice. 2 clerics in a 15 man group is the standard, 3 is nice.
so like i said, its something to ponder, not sure that the game would be better if ench exp was easier, but its rather difficult.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-22-2002).]
clerics and ressers are by far the most important class.
1. you can't get ress cept from clerics.
2. you de facto can't do !teleport zone without at least 1 ressing cleric
3. you can't get full heal cept from clerics
4. you can get strong defensive spells stone + displace without an enchanter (though scale owns)
5. you can get globe and haste from necros, lichs, and possibly elementalists?
6. conj/elementalists can PWB and pris. black light burst and major paralysis are useless in zone. feeb, dispel magic is common to mages. Fly I suppose is a key spell... plenty of fly eq.
finally, 1 enchanter is enough for a 15 man group, 2 is nice. 2 clerics in a 15 man group is the standard, 3 is nice.
so like i said, its something to ponder, not sure that the game would be better if ench exp was easier, but its rather difficult.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-22-2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Teyaha:
<B>the only useful damaging spell we have is constriction, at level 41. the other two are area affect spells which are not particularly good for solo and not even all that effective from what i've tested wiping out stuff east of tp (the level 5 mobs were constantly left alive vs. blacklight burst.
what i would like to see that would help enchanters in the 36-46 range, which really was the roughest for me, is one single target damage spell available in 7th and 8th circles. we have nothing between cone of cold and constriction that's not area affect.
if it is true that all mage xp tables are the same, than having this 'option' would help tremendously when it's time to xp.
i know that we can solo efficiently if we have the hp gear and the ac, however not all enchanters are created equal not to mention soloing is sooooooo BORING.
my two rubles on the subject.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tehaya, I've mentioned this with cyclone and the druid areas, and I think Asamoth mentioned this about phantasmal blades - lowlevel mobs continually wind up morted, or at nasty wounds, instead of dead. And yes, we all tested it near TP.
Solo is boring? Heh... don't think it's an incredible bundle of joy for clerics or druids either. :P
I feel a powerful nuke for enchanters between constriction and cone might upset the balance... Yes, yes, I know enchanters have a terrible lack of damage, but there were umpteen warnings about that when the enchanter class came in. Of course, a single target *status effect* nuke that doesn't deal a whole lot of damage, I probably would not question. Make it have a chance to ray the enemy, that way ray will actually get used in a zone other than with GCD. Just don't make it comparable to vokers :P Obviously.
<B>the only useful damaging spell we have is constriction, at level 41. the other two are area affect spells which are not particularly good for solo and not even all that effective from what i've tested wiping out stuff east of tp (the level 5 mobs were constantly left alive vs. blacklight burst.
what i would like to see that would help enchanters in the 36-46 range, which really was the roughest for me, is one single target damage spell available in 7th and 8th circles. we have nothing between cone of cold and constriction that's not area affect.
if it is true that all mage xp tables are the same, than having this 'option' would help tremendously when it's time to xp.
i know that we can solo efficiently if we have the hp gear and the ac, however not all enchanters are created equal
not to mention soloing is sooooooo BORING.my two rubles on the subject.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tehaya, I've mentioned this with cyclone and the druid areas, and I think Asamoth mentioned this about phantasmal blades - lowlevel mobs continually wind up morted, or at nasty wounds, instead of dead. And yes, we all tested it near TP.
Solo is boring? Heh... don't think it's an incredible bundle of joy for clerics or druids either. :P
I feel a powerful nuke for enchanters between constriction and cone might upset the balance... Yes, yes, I know enchanters have a terrible lack of damage, but there were umpteen warnings about that when the enchanter class came in. Of course, a single target *status effect* nuke that doesn't deal a whole lot of damage, I probably would not question. Make it have a chance to ray the enemy, that way ray will actually get used in a zone other than with GCD. Just don't make it comparable to vokers :P Obviously.
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kiryan
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im not suggesting nukes, just look at the exp gain rate. there are lots of ways to adjust it nukes, enchantment exp, or simply lowering the table. the reason why ench gain rate is terrible is largely due to no way to get dam exp.
someone else said enc have strong nukes compared to other mages, thats a load of bull, and thats how this thread turned into a nuke debate.
someone else said enc have strong nukes compared to other mages, thats a load of bull, and thats how this thread turned into a nuke debate.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>6. conj/elementalists can PWB and pris. black light burst and major paralysis are useless in zone. feeb, dispel magic is common to mages. Fly I suppose is a key spell... plenty of fly eq.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-22-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Allow me to chuckle. Talk to Baratos if you actually believe in MP's worthlessness.
Twyl
[This message has been edited by Tasan (edited 01-23-2002).]
<B>6. conj/elementalists can PWB and pris. black light burst and major paralysis are useless in zone. feeb, dispel magic is common to mages. Fly I suppose is a key spell... plenty of fly eq.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-22-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Allow me to chuckle. Talk to Baratos if you actually believe in MP's worthlessness.
Twyl
[This message has been edited by Tasan (edited 01-23-2002).]
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kiryan
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hmm cleric exp suxors too.
level 28.5 cleric vs level 26.?? warrior
about 5 hours later killing are you mad and you are mad mobs
level 30.5 cleric vs level 30 warrior
warriors hit/dam 30/30 wielding flamberge or ebony
clerics hit/dam? 40/15 wielding nightbringer and not missing rarely healing
ummm i can only assume it gets worse.
level 28.5 cleric vs level 26.?? warrior
about 5 hours later killing are you mad and you are mad mobs
level 30.5 cleric vs level 30 warrior
warriors hit/dam 30/30 wielding flamberge or ebony
clerics hit/dam? 40/15 wielding nightbringer and not missing rarely healing
ummm i can only assume it gets worse.
agree asamoth, chanters need to die less.... and chanter xp is just fine with me. i don't care about getting to 50 at the speed of light like everyone else. heheh jk! + what kills? zoning for eq u won't get cos someone else won the bid anyways. and if u die during xp u suck or need to learn how to flee.... there are these solutions: c 'sto'me c 'dragonsca'me
or need to learn how to flee.... there are these solutions: c 'sto'me c 'dragonsca'mewait shev.! don't change chantah's xp again. after the xp table change a little while ago i was shocked at how fast it seemed chantah's could level, and OMG no we don't have friggin equal dmg. LOL
who cares anyways!!! can't this class just be left like it is how i like it *beg* we is powerful enuff. but who isn't power hungry and stuff...U know what i'm talking about ppl. everyone wants to be upgraded and wants to downgrade other classes. it seems like that sometimes.
who cares anyways!!! can't this class just be left like it is how i like it *beg* we is powerful enuff. but who isn't power hungry and stuff...U know what i'm talking about ppl. everyone wants to be upgraded and wants to downgrade other classes. it seems like that sometimes.
As a chanter class goes we are really balanced between what we are supposed to be and what some of us want to be.
What we are is an awesome support class. We are what keeps most other classes alive with our spells (until they can be healed), such as stone (scale), globe, maj para (though it works a lot less), just to name a few. And what some of us want to be. Like invokers and damage dealers. With spells like Constriction, prismatic spray, blacklight, fireball, light bolt, we have our share of doing damage. We also can solo quite well. Using the above mentioned spells. We also have charm (though I have failed it 86 times in a row, it does need some work. The only thing I have EVER been able to charm is the young clerics at TP.) which when you are able to charm a cleric it will cut the heal time you have way down. Just be creative and experiment with your class. I tell you this, those that can go from 1-50 in a week or even a month SUCK as chanters. You need to put in the time to be good at your class.
Now the question is whether we get xp slow and our tables are rather hard. I don't know about the tables but I really think they should not be changed, as that would take away from the accomplishment of our fellow Chanters who have put in the time and effort to reach 50th.
IF any change is made Chanters could get some xp for a few of our assist spells on peeps such as stone (scale), haste, globe etc. But that is as far as it should go in my opinion.
What we are is an awesome support class. We are what keeps most other classes alive with our spells (until they can be healed
), such as stone (scale), globe, maj para (though it works a lot less), just to name a few. And what some of us want to be. Like invokers and damage dealers. With spells like Constriction, prismatic spray, blacklight, fireball, light bolt, we have our share of doing damage. We also can solo quite well. Using the above mentioned spells. We also have charm (though I have failed it 86 times in a row, it does need some work. The only thing I have EVER been able to charm is the young clerics at TP.) which when you are able to charm a cleric it will cut the heal time you have way down. Just be creative and experiment with your class. I tell you this, those that can go from 1-50 in a week or even a month SUCK as chanters. You need to put in the time to be good at your class.Now the question is whether we get xp slow and our tables are rather hard. I don't know about the tables but I really think they should not be changed, as that would take away from the accomplishment of our fellow Chanters who have put in the time and effort to reach 50th.
IF any change is made Chanters could get some xp for a few of our assist spells on peeps such as stone (scale), haste, globe etc. But that is as far as it should go in my opinion.
Level: 41 Race: Drow Elf Class: Enchanter
Hit points: 489(577) Moves: 121(121)
Experience Progress: 58% (0% change, % since mark)
Coins carried: 0 platinum 0 gold 0 silver 0 copper
Coins in bank: 432 platinum 1281 gold 1014 silver 874 copper
Prestige: 4550
Citizen of: Dobluth Kyor
Outcast from: Griffon's Nest
Playing time: 8 days / 11 hours/ 27 minutes
Title: Ariv'Dereluz
Group Name: I C DEAD PEOPLE
Group Leader: Verzul
Followers:
Thakx
Status: Standing.
Enchantments: Fly Ultravision
Active Spells:
--------------
fly
*whistle*
------------------
Dulzuth - General of the 1st Zombie Brigade
Hit points: 489(577) Moves: 121(121)
Experience Progress: 58% (0% change, % since mark)
Coins carried: 0 platinum 0 gold 0 silver 0 copper
Coins in bank: 432 platinum 1281 gold 1014 silver 874 copper
Prestige: 4550
Citizen of: Dobluth Kyor
Outcast from: Griffon's Nest
Playing time: 8 days / 11 hours/ 27 minutes
Title: Ariv'Dereluz
Group Name: I C DEAD PEOPLE
Group Leader: Verzul
Followers:
Thakx
Status: Standing.
Enchantments: Fly Ultravision
Active Spells:
--------------
fly
*whistle*
------------------
Dulzuth - General of the 1st Zombie Brigade
Enchanters get minimal offense, but tons of utility spells.....invokers get tons of damage, but no utility spells.....both are geared for groups and rule them.....why's everybody complaining? I thought both classes were supposed to replace monks of old and sorcs of old anyways in groups and they do so quite nicely......
Everybody's xp tables suck, that's why the challenge is fun. :P
Everybody's xp tables suck, that's why the challenge is fun. :P
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kiryan
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not bad dulz. im talking about post 48 exp though.
i would assume the exp tables are based on some sort of hours of exp to 50 per class. be interesting to see what the blueprint says for each class.
Why do clerics have a shitty table? cleric is the foundation of every group. in dnd rogues needed 1250 exp for level 2, clerics 1500, warriors 2000 and mages 2500.
i would assume the exp tables are based on some sort of hours of exp to 50 per class. be interesting to see what the blueprint says for each class.
Why do clerics have a shitty table? cleric is the foundation of every group. in dnd rogues needed 1250 exp for level 2, clerics 1500, warriors 2000 and mages 2500.
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Galok Icewolf
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Ok, since someone mentioned numbers, I felt the need to chime in.
In 3rd edition, the exp charts are standard. Every class should be given the same leveling standards etc. This was one of the best changes in 3rd edition.
In 1st/2nd editions, yes, mages needed 2500 exp to hit 2nd level. Rogues needed the least. But before you say 'see, mages are the hardest to level!', bother to look at the rest of the exp charts. It all evened out. Rogues were still the easiest, but it all became relative, and evened out.
[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 02-08-2002).]
In 3rd edition, the exp charts are standard. Every class should be given the same leveling standards etc. This was one of the best changes in 3rd edition.
In 1st/2nd editions, yes, mages needed 2500 exp to hit 2nd level. Rogues needed the least. But before you say 'see, mages are the hardest to level!', bother to look at the rest of the exp charts. It all evened out. Rogues were still the easiest, but it all became relative, and evened out.
[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 02-08-2002).]
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kiryan
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first/pre first dnd agrees with my post, im fairly confident. i dont remember 2nd edition that much and i havent forked out for third edition. but anyways i was just posting it as an example that i thought demonstrated the care placed on clerics in early dnd as they are the core of every group.
id say sojourn still has clerics at the core of every group so i think that we would all benefit if someone could fucking heal and we werent sitting on our asses waiting for a cleric or a resser to log on all the time so we can do something interesting.
id say sojourn still has clerics at the core of every group so i think that we would all benefit if someone could fucking heal and we werent sitting on our asses waiting for a cleric or a resser to log on all the time so we can do something interesting.
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