Rolling Stats?

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Nokie
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Rolling Stats?

Postby Nokie » Thu Mar 08, 2001 1:28 pm

In the mud client forum, namatoki posted this:



"Well, I heard it from Miax and Shev that character creation was changed so you could see actual stat numbers. This was so people can keep their characters instead of getting to 11 then finding out that a stat sucked and deleting the char. If you want to find the post, it was back on the SOS board on egroups/yahoo. I think it was posted in December or January. *shrug*"



Is this true???
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Mar 08, 2001 1:46 pm

From the SOS2 group...

<I>From: Mark <mask@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 18, 2001 1:30pm
Subject: Re: [sos2] Player stats

This has already been taken care of. As of October, we've had code
in place to make all stats visible including exp, str/dex/agil/etc, hit/dam,
etc. Basically we decided not to hide it from players and D2 slapped
out the code. No wasting time for me! Image

Mask
</I>
Wobb
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Postby Wobb » Thu Mar 08, 2001 2:18 pm

VISIBLE EXP

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Any chance we can check our exp with an EXP command? hehe instead of running to the guildmaster?

Wobb
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Mar 08, 2001 2:35 pm

I dunno, I kinda liked the exp messages. Easier to gauge your progress than doing math to figure out what percentage you need to your next level Image

And having exp available anywhere on Duris just made me spam it after each fight to see if I'd notched.. on Sojourn that might give me a stroke Image

- Ragorn
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Postby Rausrh » Thu Mar 08, 2001 3:04 pm

I always liked the fact that the exp was hidden from the players. It keep us from says oh the long haired fuzzy bunny gives 10 more exp that the short haired fuzzy bunny. Your Guild Master says to you :
'You need 2 elites, one boa and a crow to level.'
Your Guild Master grins with constipation.

Keep it hidden I say.

Rausrh licks you.
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Postby santego » Thu Mar 08, 2001 3:57 pm

One good compromise for folks who think seeing stats is twinky would be for you to only be able to see major attributes for that class during creation. Like con/agi/str for warriors, and int/wis for mages. Hybrid classes like rangers/rogues would see almost all of their stats while rolling - and its fair too because hybrids have more to think about..... Then again, might just wanna make it all uncomplicated and show all stats (grin). Another thing you could do was to guarentee max values for prime stats for a class, but not guarentee how high into that max area. Thus a duergar warrior would be guarenteed at least a 95 str, but COULD have a 96 or 99 - just wouldn't be able to tell till level 20. This is still significant because of max str eq, but wouldn't cause someone to roll again.
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Postby cherzra » Thu Mar 08, 2001 4:04 pm

Why? Read my post under the ideas section where there is another post going on about stats. Plenty of reasons with the upcoming code changes to show stats at rolling.
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Postby santego » Thu Mar 08, 2001 4:14 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
Why? Read my post under the ideas section where there is another post going on about stats. Plenty of reasons with the upcoming code changes to show stats at rolling.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ack, I went looking for it and couldn't find it. What's the post called? There's also a general discussion post on this subject like 3 subjects below this one Image I posted here because Nokie is Okie!
namatoki
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Postby namatoki » Thu Mar 08, 2001 4:25 pm

The thread that Cherzra is referring to is "Character Stat Effect" by Ragorn.

I agree with Cherzra. Seeing your stats at character generation is not going to give you better stats than if you could see them at 25. Also, I totally agree that stats should be on a sliding scale rather than notches. 94 str should be better than 93 str, etc.

Nizrath
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Mon Mar 12, 2001 5:30 am

If stats are on a sliding scale, that just basically means there are in effect 100 notches (or more).

What's WRONG people? Didn't you enjoy figuring out exactly where the notches were? Didn't you enjoy the challenge of finding out your stats? *siiiigh*

And exp especially. For me that was the single greatest thing (aside from room descrs) that set Toril/Soj apart from all other MUDs: you *just didn't know* and had to guess how many more mobs you'd have to kill.

"Innocence is bliss!" Well... sorta.

Mori
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Postby namatoki » Mon Mar 12, 2001 6:27 am

I just think it's lame that when you got to a stat notch, it gave you a *huge* boost rather than with a sliding scale giving you small increment boosts. Don't you think 94 str should be better than 93 str? Well, with 93 str being the last notch, it isn't. That's my point and the same with Cherzra. Yes, it's neat to find the exact notches, but at the same time, the notch system is dumb. *shrug*
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Postby Ruagh » Mon Mar 12, 2001 4:14 pm

I agree with Santego, but I think that ALL current stats can be shown, and at the same time each player can have a variable permanent maximum for each stat. That will be funny Image And showing EXP... *shrug*... I dont like this idea at all. I've played MUDs with this system, and I think that hiding exp is better. EXP as a number will distract from the game and from the RP because messages like "you have to had 1024 more exp points to gain a level" sucks!!!

[This message has been edited by Ruagh (edited 03-12-2001).]
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Mon Mar 12, 2001 4:45 pm

Hmm, perhaps I should explain a bit better what I meant with a sliding scale.

I didn't mean that 91 str will be +1hit, 92 +3, 93 +3, etc... Obviously the staff has to draw a line somewhere, say 93 like last wipe. For other stats however, the scale can be more sliding.. e.g. with int, every two points of int over 92 result in a -1 second on memtimes. Same for wis, or agi - every point over 90 will result in an extra -2 ac.

Just a thought, I liked the notch system too and I don't mind if things remained unchanged.
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Mar 12, 2001 5:16 pm

Yep, yep, all stats are visible now. We figured there wasn't much sense/benefit/purpose in hiding them.

And yes, exp is visible as well. It appears right on your Score display, along with a convenient little ANSI exp status bar, for those of you who don't like doing math (coughragorncough). Image
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Postby Rausrh » Tue Mar 13, 2001 3:27 am

Just because one can does not mean one should.

Bah Rausrh not feel like licking anyone...
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Postby Diatem » Tue Mar 13, 2001 3:48 am

I would like to say that I wish exp wasn't shown. I liked the fact that we never quite knew when we were gonna level. It added a flavor to the game that I enjoyed, that of not knowing the future...only having a guess.

-D
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Postby Thalor » Tue Mar 13, 2001 4:41 am

I've got mixed feelings about being able to view most stats, but I really don't think EXP should be visible. The guessing game is much more fun, and I always liked the anticipation of running to the guild master and having him estimate how far along I was. It has added flavor, it's kind of unique, and players will figure out the best EXP mobs faster, hence they level quicker and some zones are left abandoned. Also, some one mentioned that it contributes a bit to RP, and that's a good point. So, I see more benefit to hiding EXP than showing it =)

[This message has been edited by Thalor (edited 03-12-2001).]
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Tue Mar 13, 2001 5:58 am

I wanna see it all baby...

Cherzra powermudder
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Postby Dormithel » Tue Mar 13, 2001 7:53 am

heh,i like the power bar exp meter idea. I can see it now:

"i only have a 1/4 inch till i level!!!!"

hehe,
Dormithel/Ratok
Jenera
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Postby Jenera » Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:02 am

bleh
you wanna see stats at creation
how much exp you need to lvl
and all this other stuff that dont need a change?
i have three words for those of you that do..

GO
PLAY
EVERQUEST

thank you, drive through
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Postby Malacar » Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:22 am

Been there, done that. Image

Hated a vast majority of it, and felt homesick for Sojourn as so much stuff on there reminded me of Faerun. Oh, and there are an infinite amount of people to get backstabbed by! For joy!

I, for one, am all for seeing stats at start up. The exp meter being seen is nice, but I could live without it as well. If it's in, great. If it isn't, great. Image
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Postby moritheil » Tue Mar 13, 2001 12:54 pm

Interestingly enough...

staring at your exp meter and not watching it increase will get damn depressing... I know back in the dark days of lowbie druidry I'd have flipped if I knew how long it was going to take to get each level.
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Postby Tayros » Tue Mar 13, 2001 10:52 pm

Personally, it was a nice surprize to all of the sudden see You raise a level! at higher levels... levelling and knowing your exp became less important at higher levels (until level 49-->50 *wink*) IMHO, which is probably the reason for making it visible.

I think a lot more people will be tired at work because, "I'm almost there..." Image

Tayros
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Postby Grintor » Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:32 am

woot! only two blue bubbs till i ding!

wait, what game is this again?

i agree with most folks that the rest is good, but exp should be hidden. it can not only distract from the game by making you crunch numbers, but once folks start to see which mobs at whatever level give more than same mobs elsewhere at same level you'll have what they haveon everquest..CAMPING! having done the admin and builder thing on a few muds since sojourn closed down, not a single one that showed exp did not have a majority of the players whining about 'how come it takes me so much to get to this level when soandso's class dont need so much' and 'bah i only got 1k exp off this thing..hardly worth my time'.

however sojourn players are a different breed, and this may not occur. yet if it starts to show up in test you may want to nix it!

/shout anyone camping pyz?
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Postby Gindipple » Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:44 am

Ewww Yuck exp is gonna be visable Image


------------------
Gindipple (Gnome) stands here.
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Postby Jogg » Thu Mar 15, 2001 12:50 pm

I wanna see the stats point....=) but i dont wanna see my exp status.... just let the guildmaster tell me is more fun for me...=( please don't
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Postby Rausrh » Thu Mar 15, 2001 1:24 pm

Is there any chance that we can have this change recinded? Keep the exp bar if you want, that just should be vauge enough, but please don't show the numeric exp. This was something that I really liked about this mud.
Rausrh dont spel no gud.

Rausrh licks you.
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Postby Morek » Thu Mar 15, 2001 1:29 pm

Gotta throw my .02 in here as well. I totally agree with hiding the *exact* exp values for chars. I like the idea of the progress meter or simply showing the character something like 'long way to go' or 'expect it any time now' w/out having to go to guildmaster wouldn't be bad...but I feel exact digits take something away from the gaming experience.
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Mar 15, 2001 1:38 pm

feh

If you don't want to see the exp value, just #gag the line.


/Jegzed
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Postby Dalar » Thu Mar 15, 2001 3:39 pm

i loved having no exp counter and not seeing how much I get to level. the game gets way more depressing when you actually see how much exp you are getting after each kill, and then calculating when you will level.
Instead of:
"Damn 3 more tower runs and I'll get a level"
I like thinking:
"Woot! i know i'm gonna level this time! i think... :P"
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Postby cherzra » Thu Mar 15, 2001 4:38 pm

The actual difficulty of leveling won't change, the needed xp will be the same... it is just in your mind Image

Cherzra - in favor of nrs.
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Postby santego » Thu Mar 15, 2001 4:55 pm

I want to see these too:

1) actual damage rolls and hit calculations during combat.
2) the numeric value of my hunger/thirst, and the numeric effects on my movement value.
3) my weight as it changes, and its numeric effect on AC and my movement value.
4) an extra line in the attributes listing, saying exactly how much all my eq is worth at a store (adjusted for charisma!).
5) an extra command to see all the eq I need to get to "max out".

Okay, that about does it Image
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Postby Tilandal » Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:11 pm

Hmm, I think most people are against showing the numerical exp. I think it just gets old when "Ok I only need to kill 10000 more goblins at 5 exp each to gain my level." I think showing stats was a good Idea but im iffy on the hit/dam and the sv's and I don't think showing exp is a good idea. I always felt getting to see your hit/dam was a good reward for making it to (what was it again? 25?) It adds a certain accomplishment and not knowing hit/damn and sv's didnt ditract at all from game play at lower levels.
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Postby cherzra » Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:41 pm

Not like it really matters < 25... everyone will have crap eq, and by the time you can deck your alt with godly eq and level him up fast, you already know what his hit/dam will be based upon what eq he uses Image
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Postby Vigis » Thu Mar 15, 2001 7:37 pm

Might it be possible for a player to toggle the exp counter? I mean, sure you will be able to figure out who has it on when they don't know SS because the exp is better in a different zone. In that case, you know they are power mudder. Hrmmmm. . . *flashing lights go off in Vigis' head* How bout this, if a person has the experience bar on, make it impossible for them to toggle RP. Real Role Player wouldn't want to know exp, I agree that the stats might come in handy because then you don't have people making a killing off of Girdles of Giant Strength and stuff. Anyhow, just a few thoughts from a not so intelligent Barb.
Hasta!
Vigis Wolverinefang

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