washington area sniper

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groguk
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washington area sniper

Postby groguk » Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:20 pm

i am just curious if anyone has been following this in the news at all. i have found myself facinated by this killer. i try to find a patern to his( i say his, but to be fair it could be female)killings, i look for any connection between the victems, and i see very little. i am just interested on anyone else's thoughts about him.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:23 pm

I heard on the news first day he killed middle-aged ppl... and police said 'oh, well he is only going for working people, not kids or anything.' A few days later, he shoots a kid. Then they said, 'so far he's confined to one area...'

So then he spreads out. I think he probably watches the news.

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Postby Daz » Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:24 pm

there is no pattern, which is why the feds are failing so miserably. their textbook serial killer profiling doesn't do jack diddle for someone who just goes and pops off a shot now and then at random people.

this guy won't be caught unless he gets narc'ed out.

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moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:25 pm

oh yeah, I was talking to a girl, and I noted that (at the time) all his kills were one shot. So I said, at least it looks like he tries to kill quickly and without pain... girl gave me an odd look and left.

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Postby Kerath » Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:47 pm

It's bloody hard to catch someone that has no motive. Especially for this sort of case, where the person just shoots someone from afar, doesn't try to kidnap them or tamper with the body or anything. It's very impersonal which, in my understanding, is actually very rare among serial killers.
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:05 pm

The guy's a megalomaniac. It's possible that he started doing this with a motive, maybe the first, or maybe the first was one that isn't even known about yet, but he's gotten a reaction that's fed his warped drives and now it's all about the power he wields over the city and the media attention he receives.

He'd better hope the police catch him first. He screws up and gets caught by diligent citizens, he's going down in pieces.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
He'd better hope the police catch him first. He screws up and gets caught by diligent citizens, he's going down in pieces.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he expects to go down in pieces. My guess is he has a suicidal desire to be killed in a shootout with police.

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Postby Eilorn » Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:32 pm

I was talking to my wife about this, the other day, and I was thinking this guy is a terrorist: you see what affect he has had on the Washington area, for minimal effort... he can keep the entire nation in an uproar with little chance of being caught. Obviously the longer he goes the greater the chance of being caught, but, simply stopping (or taking a long break) and leaving everyone wondering would serve much the same purpose. There was a sci-fi book, 'Wasp' by Eric Frank Russell that used this as a premise.

Eilorn.


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Postby Daz » Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:38 pm

terrorists seek fame and publicity for their cause. the main evidence AGAINST him being a terrorist, which was my first thought, is the Tarot card. that's not terror at work, its illness.

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Postby Rausrh » Mon Oct 14, 2002 5:23 pm

I agree with Daz, what he is doing is terrorizing, but what he is is a murderer, and sick in the head.

He'll get caught sooner orlater. Let's hope it's sooner.

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Postby Keran » Mon Oct 14, 2002 5:29 pm

I've heard that when people go grocery shopping in the DC area that they tell their kids to sprint to the door on 3. That's really sad. People having to run for cover in their own hometowns.

I hope they catch this(these) maggot(s) and put them to death. Preferably something slow and painful, although that may be considered cruel and unusual. Oh well, castrate now, ask questions later!

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Postby Daz » Mon Oct 14, 2002 5:36 pm

Ironically, with all the war on terror going on, I wonder now about all the hostility. This is unusual for us in America, but in many countries . . . this is how they live their day to day lives.

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Postby groguk » Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:10 pm

from what i can see this looks more like 2 people. possibly a sniper and his spotter/driver. based on the range of there shots, and there elusiveness i would guess that they have recieved some type of training (military). the only thing that scares me about these guys is that it almost seems like they are practicing. they are basicly repeating the same set-up and they definatly seem to be getting better at what they do. i am not exactly sure what to make of the tarrot card, could possibly just be placed to screw with the cops. the writing "i am god" that definatly suggests a military sniper to me. i dont think we are dealing with anything that resembles a classic psycopath, more of a methodical killer to me. the last thing i have noticed is that there have not been any killings on the weekends, i cant figure out what this means, but it could be something.
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Postby Jegzed » Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:36 pm

Sounds like Sarajevo.

Except its only one sniper.. and a much larger city.



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Postby Tilandal » Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:38 pm

I was watching the news. A profiler said this is probably some kid addicted to archade shooting game (silent scope) gone on a rampage.

Thats got to be the the most BS I have ever heard. The first thing media always seems to blame is music, tv, computers.

This guy obviously knows how to handle a rifle. He has had plenty of experience with guns. Owns at least 3 or 4 different, legal or illegally modified, firearms. Probably goes to a local firing range. Late 20's to mid thirty's although older is a possibility.

What the police realy have to do is go through and the vehicle registration of all owners of a white truck matching the description with the registered gun owners. Only problem is the truck may be a buisness owned vehicle which would make it much more difficult to track.

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Postby Gort » Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:54 pm

Been casually following it, it would be prudent for said killer to not have used his/her own vehicle. Likely that one's stolen.

On the death card bit, that's something that was done in Vietnam to let the VC know what unit had done the killing.

I wouldn't be overly surprised if it was someone who used to be a sniper in the military, possibly in Vietnam who snapped. If so, this will get very much more bloody, some of those guys had hundreds of confirmed kills, and knew that if they were caught by the VC, they'd be killed in a painful way, so had prepared for the last bullet in their .45 to be theirs.

Its possible that the last thing he cared about was taken from him in one way or another, and so he just decided screw it, you, and everyone else in the world, dropped into the old mindset, and away he went. Don't be surprised if this guy whacks himself just before being caught.

BTW, the VC put bounties on the heads of the known snipers over there, so the really good ones were used to being marked men.


Just my .02c worth.

Toplack

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Postby thanuk » Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:33 pm

I do not know much about snipers or vietnam, but i do have my theories about people like this. Along with so many other serial murderers, and i use this term loosely because he obviously has no real pattern, the only reason i call it serial is because it keeps happening over and over. Anyway, just like so many other killers, this man will inevitably be caught by accident. Some passerby, wrong place, wrong time, will stumble into him and he will be discovered. We can all sit back and hope that the man who does is not alone, and with all preference, is of able body. So that one, he may not have to die to catch this maniac, and just maybe, with a slither of hope, he could possibly beat this man within an inch of his life, preferably with his own rifle, and leave a crumpled heap of sub-humanity for police to discover. My only real faith in the prison system, is that if he ever gets there, he's gonna go down Dahmer style.

Speaking of how screwed up people are, i was watching the news last week, and a cannibal was up for parole. A FRIGGIN CANNIBAL!! THIS GUY ATE PEOPLE!!! And now psychiatric people say he has reformed and is ready to be released into society. What the hell, release him in DC, maybe the sniper will get him...

Dodgeball is being banned from schools nationwide. We got snipers running around, and theres a FRIGGIN CANNIBAL up for PAROLE...and last year, all i was worried about was terrorism! Touk, fluff up a pillow, im coming to canadia.

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Postby Treladian » Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:37 pm

Seeing as how the first bunch of shootings happened pretty close to where I live, I've had to deal with a lot of hysteria over this. Montgomery County is a quiet, suburban area where the people have lost their backbones and the way the media is handling things isn't helping. This is one reason I severely doubt its a terrorist, the area near my home lacks any sort of significance and is too isolated and far away from DC.

He definately seems to be much more collected than most serial killers. I somewhat doubt that the tarot card is really a calling card, I wouldn't be surprised if it was his way of mocking standard police protocol for dealing with killers.

I don't buy talk of him being an ex-military or police sniper either. The ranges at which he's doing the killings are not that far away with a decent scope and rifle. It's nothing that the average hunter would be unused to doing. The majority of real sniper rifles use .308 rounds, not .233 too. Skilled, yes. But millions of people could do the same. The media just likes to attach scary names to things people don't understand. It's annoying seeing my normally intelligent friends start worrying when they hear the news attaching the label of "high velocity, military-standard, rifle rounds" to common ammunition used by pretty much anyone who has a rifle. The fact that he isn't so special makes him significantly harder to pin down. There's no telling if he's just a deer hunter that's decided to go after bipedal game or someone that's had a lot more training and just isn't using their full potential.

I won't even touch the press trying to link him to video games. This sums up how I feel on that better than words http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-10-14

Trying to track him by his weapons or vehicle probably won't do much good either. Most criminals in the US use stolen weapons or buy them from someone that stole them so doing through the FBI database trying to find any gunowner in Maryland that's purchased a rifle and has a white vehicle likely wouldn't lead anywhere. If he's smart enough to get away and toy with police, I doubt he'd be using something that can be traced back to him. Additionally, composite sketches from witnesses point to a white delivery truck, not a van. Another case of hysteria twisting some of the facts around.

It's obviously the hysteria that bugs me more than anything else. Lots of my friends still in high school are now under strict guidelines on when to return home and how they can go out while some of my friends here on campus are afraid to go back home for more than a few hours. It gets annoying when the only one seemingly unaffected by human stupidity is the killer themself.

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Postby Eza » Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:40 pm

I lived in Virginia for 21 of my 22 years.. I'm living temporarily in California, but plan to move back home ASAP. My mother, little brothers and sisters, all my family and all the friends I've ever had live around the DC area. It's hard not to worry about them since I'm 3k miles away and I can't share their fear. My best friend called me just the other night saying that the news was calling his hometown a targeted area, and that he was really worried. I hope they do catch him/her soon before too many more people are hurt.

Here's wishin my family and friends, and all of your family and friends safe travels.

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[This message has been edited by Eza (edited 10-14-2002).]
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Postby Mikayla » Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:39 pm

hopefully what will be done is, when they catch the shooter, you take anyone related to that person by blood and you put them on the fireing line and shoot them all, needs to let it be known that we will not tolerate terrorism at all in this country

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Postby Kyos » Wed Oct 16, 2002 7:39 pm

Imagine 10 of these killers acting all over the area randomly independently.

Taliban terrorists causing fear, confusion and chaos. Now and then they throw in a handgranade in a school or something, adapt a bomb in a supermarket.
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Postby Gormal » Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:40 pm

I cant put 5 rounds in a quarter from a hundred yards with my 30-06. Not any special setup at all, just a standard hunting scope, and pump action rifle. Its not that hard.

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Postby Grungar » Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:01 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gormal:
<B>I cant put 5 rounds in a quarter from a hundred yards with my 30-06. Not any special setup at all, just a standard hunting scope, and pump action rifle. Its not that hard.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmm, aught six.


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Postby Vigis » Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:42 am

Somebody (I am too lazy to check who it was)suggested that the killer might have had a motive for the first kill. Here is an alternate theory. . .what if he/she has a motive for a specific kill, but attempts to hide it by killing other people at random? Authorities get into a rut in their thinking, in fact, the majority of people do not think outside the box. Therefore, he/she creates a "box" then when the kill he/she is truly aiming for happens, authorities do not look beyond the box for the motive behind it. I know my theory sets up more of a hitman/criminal mindset in the individual, but we are supposed to be "casting a wide net" so why rule this out? I know that if I had a specific objective in mind, I would try to create confusion in order to mask my true motives.

Another part of this that interests me is the information that is being released to the media. Reports of a white van with a tail-light out and a ladder rack on top have been displayed in all forms of the media. 2 thoughts on this. 1) The authorities are tossing out misinformation in order to give the killer a false sense of security so he/she will make a critical mistake. 2) The killer is making his/her vehicle noteworthy for the time of the kill, then changing its appearance after the kill is completed. (Ted Bundy took the ski rack off his fiance's car and put it on his own when he went out to abduct a woman and replaced it on his fiance's car when the deed was done, thereby making his own car not fit the "box" that authorities were looking into)

Just a few thoughts warning people not to get too cocky on profiling the sniper. We don't know who it is, but eventually they will be caught, and will be lucky to receive death.

Vigis
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Postby ssar » Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:58 am

I Know,

How about we supply lots of sniper, hunting and high powered weapons to all members of the public over say, 10 yrs old.

Then run LAN Parties, er wait, I mean workshops for practicing shooting on a selection of PC games, then cut everyone loose to hunt the killer(s) down.

That'll learn them.

Mogr.
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Postby combatmedic » Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:41 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ssar:
<B>I Know,

How about we supply lots of sniper, hunting and high powered weapons to all members of the public over say, 10 yrs old.

Then run LAN Parties, er wait, I mean workshops for practicing shooting on a selection of PC games, then cut everyone loose to hunt the killer(s) down.

That'll learn them.

Mogr.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


lol, hey! That's how i learned to shoot, got expert with pistol and rifle back in the day (army days). But having a few pointers with a rifle definitely helped me, with a pistol, all they said was, "its just like a arcade game..only aim just a hair lower to compensate for "recoil" or tricker jerking (as oppossed to "squeezing")


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Postby Zellin » Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mikayla:
<B>hopefully what will be done is, when they catch the shooter, you take anyone related to that person by blood and you put them on the fireing line and shoot them all, needs to let it be known that we will not tolerate terrorism at all in this country
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhhh.....

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Postby Daz » Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:53 am

We know what you meant mikayla Image

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Postby groguk » Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:01 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/10/16/cnna.haney/index.html

this guy basicly restates what has already been said, but he does provide some insight
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Postby Musi » Tue Oct 22, 2002 11:30 am

Here's an ABCNews article about what they should do with the sniper once s/he's caught.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/marylandshootings_ifandwhen021021.html



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Postby Pobbil » Tue Oct 22, 2002 4:58 pm

Ya know, I live in the Washington area (about 20 miles south of DC) and I think that everyone ELSE in the country are the people paralyzed with fear. Washingtonians arent worried about it too much. I can gurantee that if this sucker shows his face in South East DC or Cheverly Maryland or even certain parts of Northern Virginia, he will get owned in less that two rounds Image I can tell you all that not many people around here have changed thier daily routines...we're still in a hurry to get to work and get up the road every day, not paying too much mind as to who/what might be on the nearest building or in a tree.

Police in Maryland/DC/and Virginia are working around the clock to catch this sucka and it wont be long before we're all looking at the TV, watching him being "cuffed and stuffed"

Every single time there is a shooting, the police shut down the area highways and that blocks up EVERYTHING within 50 or so miles around DC...pissing off millions of people during morning rush hour. So this guy has got lots and lots of people pissed off at him. However, If you aren't in the Washington DC area, I wouldnt suggest coming (not because you'll get shot) ya might just get caught up in a 20 mile backup on a highway and have to sit there for 6 or 7 hours like I did *gag* Anyway, I'm always on if you wanna talk :-D

Andi

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Postby Guest » Tue Oct 22, 2002 7:39 pm

I actually live right in the middle of the splatter pattern of his killings. O_O

I've been working about 80-90 hours a week right now, so I'm not out In the world enough to be shot - but it's still pretty scary. All the schools have banned outdoor activities, all major outdoor school sports and activities are on-hold, and most local stores (especially Michaels, Home Depot, and gas stations) are all reporting down sales from fewer customers going out. I myself will only get gas at a station near my house that has no long-distance views but is instead surrounded by strip mall.

So in reality, the sniper has quite literally frozen up alot of life in this area. Some say Osama Bin Laden is scary, and I agree 100%. But most people in this area now think the Sniper, 1 lone guy, is worse. Its totally random, he's a perfect shot, and there isn't shit you can do about it but walk in irregular patterns and watch you back.

Its pathetic if you ask me, its them winning the war - but right now, if you lived where I do, you too would take care.

Soon this asshole will get caught, and we all go back to normal. What scares me is the thought of so much publicity that Al Quida (sp?) will realize that they don't need planes to terrorize America (or any freedom loving country). All you need is a gun, a good scope, some basic shooting training, and a little bit of smarts and you can freeze up the spirit of an entire city.

But then again, this is War.

o_o
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Postby Elisten » Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:43 am

Living so far away from the area it's hard to understand exactly what the people in the DC area feel each day when they go to work, pump gas, ride a bus..

Today, I think the feeling became clear. I watched a discussion about whether parents should discuss this with their kids and one statement stood out...

"Mommy, Daddy... please, I don't want you to go get gas!"

My god. That brought tears. I mean, how can you explain to children about a maniac that just goes around and shoots people, for no apparent reason? Much less, how do you explain that to yourself?

It makes me want to shout WHY WHY WHY? Even though the answers may never come.

Well, I just wanted to get that off my chest. Glad I have you all in my life.


Eli



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Postby Todrael » Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:52 am

Just because the media is pushing this at you 24/7, with Fear Counselors coming on to tell us how we can best cope with the Sniper on the Loose (even more hyped than the War on Terror) doesn't mean that other crimes stop.

How many rapes do you think there were in the D.C. area yesterday? How many murders, muggings, robberies, acts of random violence? Just because they're pushing it down our throat doesn't mean the rest of the "common" crimes stop.

It's all a matter of perspective, and frankly, a lot of people don't seem to have any.

The first thing those "Fear Counselors" should advise is to STOP WATCHING THE FRICKIN NEWS. CBS actually has a chart on their web page, showing people how to Avoid Becoming a Target. It includes things like gassing up in dark alleys away from crowds, jogging alone without reflective clothing, and other stupidity that will get you in -real- trouble.

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Postby Pobbil » Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:59 am

Speaking as one of the people from the Washington DC area, I can say that most of us are very confident that this sucka will be caught.

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Postby Todrael » Wed Oct 23, 2002 3:03 am

http://villagevoice.com/issues/0243/cotts.php

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Postby Pobbil » Wed Oct 23, 2002 4:01 am

Speaking as one of the people from the Washington DC area, I can say that most of us are very confident that this sucka will be caught.

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Postby Kasula » Wed Oct 23, 2002 4:40 am

I love the fact that getting gas has turned into a Extreme Sport.
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Postby Treladian » Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:57 pm

"How many rapes do you think there were in the D.C. area yesterday? How many murders, muggings, robberies, acts of random violence? Just because they're pushing it down our throat doesn't mean the rest of the "common" crimes stop."

Actually, this is part of the reason that the killings have had so much effect. Montgomery County, where most of the shootings have taken place, is a very low-crime county. Murders are in the single digits each month, if not over the entire year. Most people back home are very isolated from any sort of crime, much less someone getting away with murder. Even without the news force-feeding it down our throats, there would still be high anxiety simply because of the nature of the area the murders have taken place, it just wouldn't be a topic of discussion nation-wide.

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Postby Musi » Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:58 pm

A news report just came on the tv saying they've arrested 2 men who they believe are the snipers. They were sleeping in their car when they were found. They found a rifle that could be the murder weapon and one of them is I think they said an ex-marine. There was also a hole in the trunk that they also think was used to shoot through.
Just keeping everyone updated.
I hope if these are the snipers, they nail their asses to the wall Image


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Musi "Desperate to get ress" {-Randgriur-} Waelcyrge Sororitas
Treladian
Sojourner
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Treladian » Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:49 pm

http://www.msnbc.com/news/816566.asp

Hopefully a few of my friends back home won't be freaking out soon . . .

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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.

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