c 'transmute mud to Rock' the Vote!

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Dlur
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c \'transmute mud to Rock\' the Vote!

Postby Dlur » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:01 pm

Just a quick note to encourage all those that are in the US to get out and vote (today for those of you that weren't aware of it being Nov 5th, 2002). I really could care less who you vote for, just make your voice be heard at the one time every 2-4 years that you actually sort of can.

I realize that this is a pretty American-specific thread, but it's so important to get rid of some of the jackasses in Congress and the Senate to replace them with new and improved jackasses that I couldn't help myself but to post about it.

So in summary - Go vote! I voted!

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Postby Gindipple » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:07 pm

George W. Bush called me already this morning to tell me to vote.
No Thanks.

I'm positive there is some guy out there that isn't going to vote, but would vote the complete opposite of me, so my vote would be canceled anyway.

Yes I despise our Gov't.


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Postby Mikayla » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:13 pm

i will vote when i get off work

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Postby Malacar » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:25 pm

I find it funny when people who claim they hate the government say they won't vote, and continue to live here.

Sorry Gindipple, I really don't mean that as a flame, but it's gonna sound that way anyways.

If you don't like it, CHANGE it!!!

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Gindipple
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Postby Gindipple » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:33 pm

Rofl, CHANGE IT huh?
Like Dlur said replace the old jackass with a new and improved jackass?
You waste your time and change it, haha
And no it's not a flame, the word is over used.
It's a simple debate.


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Krogenar
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Postby Krogenar » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:39 pm

Gotta agree!

If you're a Libertarian, or a Republican, get out there and vote! If you really don't care about politics and stuff, stay home and watch TV.

Oh yeah, and if you think your taxes aren't high enough, vote Democratic. Image

Here's a political quiz, to determine where you stand politically. http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

EDIT: For parity's sake, here's another self-test - from the Young Democrats. http://clubs.asua.arizona.edu/~democlub/test/test.html
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- Krogenar

[This message has been edited by Krogenar (edited 11-05-2002).]
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Postby Grungar » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:43 pm

I voted early. Now, to vote often... They sent me a second absentee ballot. I love Palm Beach County!

- Grungar "Legalize pot and declare war on Cuba? Sounds good" Forgefire
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Postby Malacar » Tue Nov 05, 2002 9:28 pm

Good.. Thanks Gind. I agree. My name seems to be associated with flames, in both directions...

To digress... If you hate the government (which I can definitely sympathize with, I think all politicians are crooked), can you think of any ways to change it?

In my judgement, the constitution needs to be rewritten, and all politicians killed in a mass culling to perhaps show that we mean business. *nod me*

In all seriousness though... If you hate it, why stay?

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Postby Musi » Tue Nov 05, 2002 9:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>To digress... If you hate the government (which I can definitely sympathize with, I think all politicians are crooked), can you think of any ways to change it?

In my judgement, the constitution needs to be rewritten, and all politicians killed in a mass culling to perhaps show that we mean business. *nod me*

In all seriousness though... If you hate it, why stay?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All politicans ARE crooked. I can't wait till today is over at 7:30 and all the damn tv and radio mudslinging ads are off the air! Of course, we still have to see the ugly posters all over town Image If I could afford it, I'd move to Ireland, since their economy is booming (well...that and I LOVE their accents!) but since Bush got into office, I've lost my job and haven't had a decent job since Image

So I'm voting today to try to make a difference, but actually I'm just negating my husband's votes (we're on opposite sides of the fence Image )


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Musi "Desperate to make a difference" {-Randgriur-} Waelcyrge Sororitas

[This message has been edited by Musi (edited 11-05-2002).]
Gindipple
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Postby Gindipple » Tue Nov 05, 2002 9:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>In all seriousness though... If you hate it, why stay?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh please is that the extreme or what?
I'm just gonna pack up and leave!
Hello, realism!

The fact of the matter is simple: We are way over governed.

How to change it? Honestly I don't have that much time, money, or motivation to do so.
It's simply alot more viable to ignore it.
But I do agree it needs changing. (there I voted)


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Postby moritheil » Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:15 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
If you don't like it, [b]CHANGE it!!!
[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you put forth a coherent and realistic plan to substantially change the government, heck, I'll throw my lot in with it too.

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Postby rylan » Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:35 am

I voted on the way home from work... Mit Romney better win damnit!
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Postby Zagaz » Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:36 am

If ya want change, start an armed revolution. Is that not why the amendment writtne into your constitution giving you right to bear arms or arm bears or whatever is there for?

Oh and what constitutes 'arms' I mean are missiles not 'arms' to a degree, how far does that go in terms of what American citizens are allowed to arm themselves with?

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[This message has been edited by Zagaz (edited 11-05-2002).]
Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gindipple:
<B> Oh please is that the extreme or what?
I'm just gonna pack up and leave!
Hello, realism!

The fact of the matter is simple: We are way over governed.

How to change it? Honestly I don't have that much time, money, or motivation to do so.
It's simply alot more viable to ignore it.
But I do agree it needs changing. (there I voted)


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Drink caffeine much? Image

I'm all for a good idea. And I am not diagreeing with your views on the government.. Quite the contrary. I agree with them for the most part.

But complaining never solved anything, aye?

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Postby Gerad » Wed Nov 06, 2002 5:00 am

I only voted against my current congressman (I dont like the other guy much either but I think he deserves a shot), and I voted on the issue for light rail in my city. I think we really need it and I hope it passes!

At least vote on what you care about!

-Gerad

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Postby Elisten » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:14 am

I voted.

To legalize hemp! Image

(And the other voting issues, too.)

Eli
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Postby Sarell » Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:32 am

I always try to vote for the people who actually make an effort to present their policy to the public rather than just slander the opposition.

....it is getting harder and harder to do however...

In Australia on the year of the last federal election the Liberal Party (current government) spent more money on advertising than Coke and McDonalds .. and still couldn't get across whether or not they were actually going to do anything. The TV was kinda like a BBS argument between Daz and... Daz :P *ruffles daz*

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Postby Abue » Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:56 pm

I voted. I wrote my self in for almost every spot except for the judges. I wrote my dog Skip in for those spots. I couldnt be a judge. One thing I can say though. I was pretty pissed that there was only room for one write in for city council yet you can vote for two people. Now that Bush has total control in Washington expect WWIII to start. He was already demanding that all the democrates should fall in line and support what ever he says.
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Postby Krogenar » Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B> Drink caffeine much? Image

I'm all for a good idea. And I am not diagreeing with your views on the government.. Quite the contrary. I agree with them for the most part.

But complaining never solved anything, aye?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, complaining (voting) can change a lot! I think the best way to bring power back to the people is to let them keep more of their own money. Lower taxes, maintain the repeal of the estate tax (AKA 'The Death Tax' - in which the gov't takes 50% of your wealth after you die.) and just generally tell the government to tighten its belt.


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- Krogenar
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Postby Krogenar » Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Abue:
I voted. I wrote my self in for almost every spot except for the judges. I wrote my dog Skip in for those spots. I couldnt be a judge. One thing I can say though. I was pretty pissed that there was only room for one write in for city council yet you can vote for two people. Now that Bush has total control in Washington expect WWIII to start. He was already demanding that all the democrates should fall in line and support what ever he says.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You voted that way, Abue? You just wrote your name, and dog's name on the ballot?

Perfect.

Keep voting that way, I insist. Image

As for the Repooobliqans winning, yeee-HAW! Now hopefully we can get some conservatives on the Supreme Court, start crushing more terrorists and cutting taxes. Image

And the recently resurrected Lautenberg won in New Jersey, after replacing the doomed, corruption-plagued Bob Torricelli in what's being called a 'switcheroo' in the media. Look like the Democrats will be litigating their way into power in the future.



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- Krogenar
Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:03 pm

Complaining and voting are two different things. I don't believe in partisan voting (I am neither Democrat nor Republican). I voted republican this time, because he advocated for finding more jobs in my state, not increasing taxes, and generally seemed less shady than the woman he ran against.

I'm relieved (not happy, but hey, it's better than it was) to say he won. Image


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Rellanor
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Postby Rellanor » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:29 pm

Not voting is alot like going to a restarount and looking at the guy next to you and saying hey I'm to busy to order pick something for me. If your lunch is worth the effort to make a choice why isn't your goverment?

Boboloppe.
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Postby Zoldren » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:32 pm

IMO if you dont vote your a dope

and if you don't vote, you have no right to bitch about anything the goverment does because you yourself gave up that right,

and you yourself elected to have goverment w/o representation, ie your representative

and i have found that 9/10 people who bitch about something in the goverment are people who are to lazy to vote, or dont think their vote counts........

2 words for ya
grow up

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MoM-D
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Postby Drakkoth » Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:47 pm

Voting: another illusion for the masses.

I think most everyone here knows deep down that their vote doesn't mean diddlysquat.

Just in case you don't, let me spell it out for you. Your vote does not matter. You are not making a difference. Your going down and voting, or staying in bed, is not going to change a goddamn thing.

Are we clear?

Now, if you're really charismatic, and you get a bunch of people who either were voting a different way, or not voting at all, and you sway them over to your side, and you organize these tens of thousands of votes and get them on the books, yeah sure go for it.

But for Joe-fucking-Blow-Sojourn-playing-voter, no, you can just go ahead and go to the movies or something instead. You have my permission.

PS There's no Heaven either.
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Postby thanuk » Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:07 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
<B>IMO if you dont vote your a dope

and if you don't vote, you have no right to bitch about anything the goverment does because you yourself gave up that right,

and you yourself elected to have goverment w/o representation, ie your representative

and i have found that 9/10 people who bitch about something in the goverment are people who are to lazy to vote, or dont think their vote counts........

2 words for ya
grow up

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wooooooaaaahhh just hold on there a minute, you got it all bass ackwards and stuff.

If you DID vote, you have no right to complain. Your voice was heard, you did your part and got your chosen person elected. Any blame for wrongdoing done from his actions falls squarely on you, because you went out there and put the guy in office. It is your fault.

If you DID NOT vote, you have every right to complain. You had nothing to do with that silly little election, and had no part in putting the shaved ape in office who managed to squander away all your hard earned tax money on food and goat supplies for some 3rd world country, while the pothole in the middle of your middle class town grows larger every day.

I for one, did not vote. Why not? Because i am from new york. So many people live in this state that it honestly DOES NOT matter if you vote, and dont give me that stupid florida example, cuz as bad as this state is we never screwed up anything THAT badly. If i lived in south dakota, where my family would make up about 30% of the population, thereby giving my opinion some shred of value, then i might bother to vote. Even if my opinion did matter, i still would not have voted? Why not? because i did not support any of the candidates! Pataki wants to raise taxes and cut spending, the guy running against him doesnt stand for anything except showing the world what a jerk pataki was. Smearing the other candidate into oblivion does not mean that you are the right man for the job. None of the candidates show any originality, no matter who goes in office, nothing will change. Same old political machine, you do what the money tells you to do, be it the campaign money or the bribes or big business or people with influence. Screw johnny factory worker, cuz he doesnt do jack for your reelection hopes.
I am 22 years old, and i have voted 1 time for one election, and it was not for president. I voted against hillary clinton representing New York. Guess what. She won. Convincingly. Further proof that my opinion does not matter. So while you suckers are out there trying to change the world ill be at work, earning a dollar. Which, considering taxes, means i will earn 1.37 to make sure that i get 1.00 to take home with me at the end of the week. YOU made your bed, YOU lie in it. Ill sleep on the floor and bitch to my heart's content.


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Thanuk Pantherclaw
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Postby Zoldren » Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:33 pm

wish everyone thought like you
then i would be the only one voting and i would have the only opinion that mattered

so you must think your opions dont matter to right? you obviously dont want your opinions shared, acted on ...

with the option of having a chance at having my voice heard, or not.. i will take the chance very time

and i will try to make the bed the way i want it, even if its made the way i hate i will sleep in it as will you. i disagree with alot of the laws that are out there, but some do get changed ... yes seldom but they do.. better laws come yup..

no matter what bed is made the one you made or the one everyone who voted made, you are stuck sleeping in it.. every tax law, every civil law....every.....

unless you break the law.. well nope you still sleep in that bed because your going to do time...

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MoM-D
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Postby Grungar » Fri Nov 08, 2002 4:55 am

Hooray for Republicans! Hooray for Democrats! Go read the latest on www.somethingawful.com about the people that lost. The system does work... Sort of.

- Grungar "Yeah... The Free Energy party sounds good" Forgefire
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Postby Adriorn » Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:24 pm

*agree Thanuk/Drakkoth*

I am glad some people out there still have hope or dreams that voting matters. I unfortunately realize the total waste of time voting is. It's like example someone gave above about the restaurant, except your only two choices for food is vomit or feces.

I'll abstain.

Adriorn Darkcloak
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Postby Gormal » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:51 pm

if you dont vote you're a complete pussy who has given up one of your most soverign rights as an American. That "my vote doesnt matter" bullshit is carried by so many people that if they all voted it would undoubtadly change every election in the country. Get off your lazy ass and spend a couple hours filling in the bubbles.

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Postby Daz » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:55 pm

Voting? Seriously people, if anyone in America thinks that elections are anything other than a platform for politicians to show the corporate world where they stand, so that the corporations know who to bribe, and how much.

The election is not about the public opinion, the election is about face time for politicians. If the election (presidential) was the real deal, and NOT a complete fabrication, then there would be no electoral college.

Do you know what the electoral college is? In case public opinion is not swayed by millions of dollars of commercial revenue, and by some fluke the right man for the job wins the election - the electoral college steps in to make sure that the paid man gets the job.

You people who believe that a single vote counts watch way too much television and believe those TRL style crap comments about 'make yourself heard.'

Thanuk was right on when he said that voting just supports a jackass you don't want in office.

Maybe if the whole country did NOT vote, they would understand and hear us. Telling everyone to vote for their candidates is stupid. I say we rock the vote and stay home. Tap the Vote!
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Postby Cardolan » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:18 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B>If the election (presidential) was the real deal, and NOT a complete fabrication, then there would be no electoral college.

Do you know what the electoral college is? In case public opinion is not swayed by millions of dollars of commercial revenue, and by some fluke the right man for the job wins the election - the electoral college steps in to make sure that the paid man gets the job.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, Mr. Electoral College, how do you explain away local elections, ballot propositions, etc? Are those completely useless because of the way the president is elected? Please, I'm dying to hear this.


[This message has been edited by Cardolan (edited 11-12-2002).]
Daz
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Postby Daz » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:24 pm

ask me how much i care about the sanitation policies of bumblefuck, wisconsin?

ask me how much i care about how much the residents of bumblefuck care?

ask me if i care about anything other than myself?

why do i even care about presidential elections?
1 - federal taxes
2 - foreign policies

your city hall's 3 month old campaign to paint a fire hydrant pink does not rate on my list of important things to worry about.
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Postby Kifle » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:25 pm

Don't you guys watch the daily show? Mid-term elections are even more useless than presidential elections...

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Postby Daz » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:27 pm

btw, notice the magical part of my post where i mentioned i was referring to presidential elections? that means i was referring to presidential elections, and not your mayor's attempts to get more budget money to have his corvette repainted bright pink in a new awareness campaign.
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Postby Cardolan » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:33 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
btw, notice the magical part of my post where i mentioned i was referring to presidential elections? that means i was referring to presidential elections, and not your mayor's attempts to get more budget money to have his corvette repainted bright pink in a new awareness campaign.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have learned something new about throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

I hope the state/county/city you live in sucks just as much as you seem to want it to.
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Postby Zoldren » Tue Nov 12, 2002 5:46 pm

if voting doesnt matter so much
why do politicians spend so much time kissing ass of all those who do vote or might vote...

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Postby Kifle » Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:21 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
<B>if voting doesnt matter so much
why do politicians spend so much time kissing ass of all those who do vote or might vote...

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its more of a matter of showing the people who the best candidate is, not that any of them are good. So yes, votes do matter as far as somebody getting elected, but they dont matter as far as electing somebody worthwhile because they dont exist.

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Postby Gort » Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:49 pm

I think I'll have to run for President on a new platform...

The other guy/woman is a great person, they've done a lot of good things in their lives. That said, I will still do a better job for you by doing x,y, and z.

Oh, and I did vote, and most of the elections in Colorado were quite close, except governor (Bill Owens will likely run for President next time).

I dispised the smear campaigns, and believe the electoral college is outdated. Historically, it was in place when it took 3 days to get from Fort Collins to Denver, and a community could only send one or two representatives to cast the vote for the people of the town. They were typically upstanding members of the community, and though they typically voted for the candidate their constituancy voted for, if conscience demanded, they didn't have to.

IMHO it should have been done away with 80 or more years ago. But, we live in a republic, designed as a representative democracy. So.... we work with what/who we have until we can improve the situation.


IMHO

Toplack


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Postby Krogenar » Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:54 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
Voting? Seriously people, if anyone in America thinks that elections are anything other than a platform for politicians to show the corporate world where they stand, so that the corporations know who to bribe, and how much.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Voting is a vital component of democracy, Daz. If you fail to vote, you're just one of the people that floats along with politics, and hopes for the best. How we vote does matter. If everyone stayed home, and decided not to vote, then the votes of the few will just count that much more.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The election is not about the public opinion, the election is about face time for politicians. If the election (presidential) was the real deal, and NOT a complete fabrication, then there would be no electoral college.</font>


And what if there were a referendum to abolish the Electoral College? What then? Would you vote in that election? Please Daz, this just amounts to whining.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Do you know what the electoral college is? In case public opinion is not swayed by millions of dollars of commercial revenue, and by some fluke the right man for the job wins the election - the electoral college steps in to make sure that the paid man gets the job.</font>


That's not how the electoral college works. The EC electors are voted into their positions by the citizens of the states they represent. The number of electors (electoral votes) that each state gets is determined in part by the size of their population. So the EC gives each state a 'weight' in the counting of electoral votes. As I understand it, the EC is meant to ensure that a presidential candidate's national support has a certain breadth - not just a majority. The EC serves its purpose. Are you still smarting from the 2000 election??

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>You people who believe that a single vote counts watch way too much television and believe those TRL style crap comments about 'make yourself heard.'

Thanuk was right on when he said that voting just supports a jackass you don't want in office.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Daz, I consider you my friend. It makes me sad that you're that cynical about politics.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Maybe if the whole country did NOT vote, they would understand and hear us. Telling everyone to vote for their candidates is stupid. I say we rock the vote and stay home. Tap the Vote!</font>


The price of freedom is vigilance. If you don't like the way government is run in this country, you have the right to do something about it. Don't denigrate that right. If you really don't care about voting, there are plenty of countries out there where no one can vote. Maybe you should give Iraq a try. Now there's someplace where voting is a sham! Saddam Hussein got 100 percent of the vote recently. Wow. He's very popular among people who want to continue to live. Image

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Postby Daz » Tue Nov 12, 2002 11:35 pm

First off, I do know how the electoral college works, and how each state gets a number of votes based on the number of people it represents, etc.

it is still a total sham. the people who sit and vote in the electoral college have NO OBLIGATION to vote for anything other than who they want. if anything i will concede that while voting for the president may be a waste of time, at most - we should vote for who sits in the electoral college.

it is still gay, and my voice is NOT heard, despite what you see at campaign time each year. my vote does jack and shit when it comes to putting the president in office, since it is the EC's job to elect the president, not my own.

sending us out to vote is like a high school pep rally. we yell and scream and throw things, but don't care about what happens. it makes for a great excuse to get out early and pretend we are making a difference.

the more i think about thanuk's comment, the more brilliant it sounds. i feel that by NOT voting, i am making a significant statement that i have a lack of faith in the government that runs this country. i do NOT believe ANYTHING i ever say or do will change this country, or the way it is run. However, I am still glad that i registered to vote in california, cuz I do plan on making every effort I can to see that terminator becomes governor over there.

when i don't vote, and millions others like me don't vote as well, we are speaking with out silence. we are saying 'we don't trust you - we don't respect you - we don't have faith in you.'

there was a time when the country was run by heroes, and the history books tell stories of their accomplishments. Those days are gone, and politics is now a clique for the wealthy. i don't wish to waste my entire life trying to gain the ability to have a voice. i love america, and always will.

do any of you who also love america consider g.w.bush to be the face of your country? do you feel that he is the voice of our nation? is he a leader that you would entrust the lives of your sons to?

or is he a figurehead for forces that we have no control over? is he a puppet of the industries that govern his judgement? is he a tool for a father who failed to accomplish what he set out to do?

i have a peeve against being told that i have no rights if i do not vote.

i have a right not to vote, and you can kiss my righteous right ass if you think otherwise. if you are so hellbent on getting one more fucking vote, then put a candidate, just ONE candidate in front of me that i trust. ONE person that i respect. ONE person that i truly believe will strive to make this nation a better place, and not just sway the economy in favor of his family.

When we go to war against Iraq, and they shut down or limit their oil exports, Mr. Bush's oil farms are gonna start too turn a tidy profit i bet.

I wonder why george Sr. and george Jr. have been so hell bent on Iraq, when Clinton managed a very productive 8 years in office without it ever being an issue. I'm sure there are people who can tell me how wrong I am, but I don't care, really.

I have faith in my own opinions, and other peoples' opinions will NEVER change how I feel about anything. Only facts can change my opinions.
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Nov 12, 2002 11:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B>First off, I do know how the electoral college works, and how each state gets a number of votes based on the number of people it represents, etc.

it is still a total sham. the people who sit and vote in the electoral college have NO OBLIGATION to vote for anything other than who they want. if anything i will concede that while voting for the president may be a waste of time, at most - we should vote for who sits in the electoral college.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, your 2nd paragraph shows that you don't know how the electoral college works.

There have been laws enacted in each states that require that the EC votes along with the populace (I believe Vermont is the only exception where the % of electoral votes get split along the % of popular votes). That is why it is important to "win" a state's popular vote to get the electoral votes. The laws have been enacted so the representatives on the EC have to vote along with their constituants and can't vote for Mickey Mouse when the state wanted someone else.

That being said, if we didn't have the EC the Presidential campaign would be run in 4 states: California, Illinois, New York, and Texas. Whichever candidate won those states would win the election and they could tell the rest of the states to kiss off. The beauty of the EC system is that the candidates cannot ignore the smaller states and HAVE to campaign in states like Iowa, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc or else they will lose the election (thus trying to combat the tyranny of the majority and the bullying by the larger states at the expense of the smaller states). The downfall of the system is that it opens the door for the oddity of the 2000 election where the President can be elected without the popular vote. However, the two times it has happened in ~225 years isn't a bad run.
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Postby Zoldren » Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B>
When we go to war against Iraq, and they shut down or limit their oil exports, Mr. Bush's oil farms are gonna start too turn a tidy profit i bet.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it funny that everyone slams bush for his oil connections, a lot of politans have oil in their family/business. it takes money to win elections, why? because you have to be heard, how do you get heard, air time.

one of the people slaming bush for oil contacts was.. g'h'ore... guess what.. hes got ties to oil too....

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Postby Mplor » Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:33 am

Vote, you dumbasses.

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Postby Daz » Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:53 am

voting is for sux0rs
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Postby Krogenar » Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kiaransalee:
<B> Actually, your 2nd paragraph shows that you don't know how the electoral college works.

There have been laws enacted in each states that require that the EC votes along with the populace (I believe Vermont is the only exception where the % of electoral votes get split along the % of popular votes). That is why it is important to "win" a state's popular vote to get the electoral votes. The laws have been enacted so the representatives on the EC have to vote along with their constituants and can't vote for Mickey Mouse when the state wanted someone else.

That being said, if we didn't have the EC the Presidential campaign would be run in 4 states: California, Illinois, New York, and Texas. Whichever candidate won those states would win the election and they could tell the rest of the states to kiss off. The beauty of the EC system is that the candidates cannot ignore the smaller states and HAVE to campaign in states like Iowa, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc or else they will lose the election (thus trying to combat the tyranny of the majority and the bullying by the larger states at the expense of the smaller states). The downfall of the system is that it opens the door for the oddity of the 2000 election where the President can be elected without the popular vote. However, the two times it has happened in ~225 years isn't a bad run.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. Presidential candidates must win a 'breadth' of states, not just a majority of the votes. The EC was put into place by Founding Fathers precisely so that the smaller states wouldn't be overlooked.
[Note to self: Kiaransalee is well-informed.]

The very fact that the most powerful nation on the planet is able to change its leaders on a regular basis, with no bloodshed is a small miracle. In other countries, whoever's got the guns is in charge. Period. The EC does allow for some funky outcomes once in a while, but its the best system we've yet to create. Early on in its history, Jefferson and Hamilton actually won exactly half each of the electoral votes, and the EC was reformed to prevent that in the future.

Of greater concern to voters is the practice of voter redistricting. Democrats and Republicans in Congress decide how voting districts will be redrawn on a regular basis, and ensure that each district is predominantly of one political stripe; divvying them up amongst themselves. They do this so that most of the House of Representatives seats will not be hotly contested. That makes it easier to incumbents to stay in office - and defeats the purpose of democracy. It's political gerrymandering. That practice, Daz, would be a better target for your griping.

But vote, even if the system isn't perfect. People died (and continue to die) for the right to have a say in their government.

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Postby Daz » Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:42 pm

i repeat, i have the right to do nothing if i so please. stop bullying me to vote. the more you tell me i should, the less i want to.
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Postby Jegzed » Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:55 pm

People who don't vote in elections, should lose their citizen priviliges, or voluntarily emigrate to a country without democracy.

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Postby cherzra » Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:07 pm

I don't always vote. As a matter of fact I never vote for city council or provincial elections, because all the candidates suck and it makes no difference who is in power. For parliamental elections, I'll go, but I only do so to vote for the least of the evils.

Politicians are scum, two-faced two-timing backstabbing fork-tongued no-good freeloading liars. The only job they could get besides politician is manager, because most of those are full of sh*t and hot air too.

They screw you over at any chance they get and their viewpoints change everytime the wind changes directions. Just before the elections they miraculously come up with nice ideas trying to gain your vote, and once they are elected they won't even sneeze on you.

The only thing they do is take my hard-earned money and give it to freeloaders who are too lazy to work and third world countries. Once in a while they raise sales tax, labour tax, health care insurance price, gas tax, and anything else they need, just so they can give more money to that pathetic money drain called the European Union. They never fix anything that needs attention such as crime, pollution and health care.

Worthless, I tell you.
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Postby Krogenar » Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:22 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
i repeat, i have the right to do nothing if i so please. stop bullying me to vote. the more you tell me i should, the less i want to.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No argument there. It's your right.

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Postby Krogenar » Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:41 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>just so they can give more money to that pathetic money drain called the European Union. They never fix anything that needs attention such as crime, pollution and health care.

Worthless, I tell you.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glad to hear the EU is working out as planned. *poke* Image


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