This Could be You

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Ashiwi
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This Could be You

Postby Ashiwi » Fri Jan 10, 2003 12:39 am

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/09/police.kill.dog/index.html

Lorgan pointed this out to me earlier, and I have to say I was appalled. I've always understood the need for self-protection among police officers, but this goes WAY over the line.
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Postby Vahok » Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:29 am

Gee...and my friends wonder why I hate the police system...

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Postby Ensis » Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:26 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Vahok:
<B>Gee...and my friends wonder why I hate the police system...

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't be ignorant, hate the individuals, not the system.



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Postby Kifle » Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:35 am

nah, the system is pretty screwed too ensis Image

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Postby Iktar » Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:38 am

come on! it's TN!!

wut u people expect? shooting teenager holding a toy gun?! come 'on. this is america.

:P

honestly, cops get too much crap for the work they do and pay they get. i'm taling NYPD n other real cops. :P

u get retards like dat TN officer, das wut u get
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Postby Vahok » Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ensis:
<B> Don't be ignorant, hate the individuals, not the system.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, the precious system hired these sick bastards, and now will "investigate" the incident. Individually, I like many police officers .. the system is a piece of shit.

(Look at the picture...car thieves? I guess they brought the dog and kids for their crimewave)

I really am interested to see the outcome. Suspensions, fines, settlements...hopefully justice is served. Call me a pessimist, but I can't see that happening.

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Postby Ensis » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
<B>nah, the system is pretty screwed too ensis Image

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You and kasula should move far away if it bugs you enough to constantly bag on it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>Sorry, the precious system hired these sick bastards, and now will "investigate" the incident. Individually, I like many police officers .. the system is a piece of shit.

(Look at the picture...car thieves? I guess they brought the dog and kids for their crimewave)

I really am interested to see the outcome. Suspensions, fines, settlements...hopefully justice is served. Call me a pessimist, but I can't see that happening.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The system hired theM? Oh yeathey must've forgot to put the checkbox into the application that said "if you ever pull someone over on the freeway, and they have dogs..would you shoot the dogs?"

Sooner or later you just have to realize the fact that in EVERY organization there are going to be a few idiots. If you are part of one of those organizations you too would say "hey, back off, we're not all like that" Be objective.. like you said, you know lots of cops that you like.. don't make blanket statements, you yourself bashed your own friends with that comment.



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Postby Zalkenai » Fri Jan 10, 2003 12:14 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ensis:
<B>

Sooner or later you just have to realize the fact that in EVERY organization there are going to be a few idiots. If you are part of one of those organizations you too would say "hey, back off, we're not all like that" Be objective.. like you said, you know lots of cops that you like.. don't make blanket statements, you yourself bashed your own friends with that comment.


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only problem I see with this, is that THESE idiots have guns... and don't normally get in much trouble for using them unnecessarily.

Do to this fact, I find the comparison to other organizations somewhat difficult to swallow.

I don't believe that all cops are bad, but some people become power hungry, and it's easy to abuse when you have a gun and don't have to worry about disciplinary action.

I'm glad this is only my two cents... I can't afford much more.

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Postby Mikayla » Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
<B>http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/09/police.kill.dog/index.html

Lorgan pointed this out to me earlier, and I have to say I was appalled. I've always understood the need for self-protection among police officers, but this goes WAY over the line.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

are these the same cops that shove large objects up peoples asses? cops i think are like people with business degrees, for most part they lack common sense.


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Postby Rausrh » Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:41 pm

"I guess they brought the dog and kids for their crimewave"

I'd hate to live in Vahok's world where all the police are like "Nah, lets not bother him, he don't LOOK like a criminal. I'm sure he's fine."

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Postby Fura » Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:41 pm

All I can say is that any time I've seen people who have to always do their best to help others, no matter how they're doing or how long they've been doing it or what kind of treatment they've received in that time, they do burn out. Social workers may stop caring. Government officials may not care enough to recommend the right form instead of the one presumed to be right. Cops might get jumpy.

Yes, they're the ones with the guns. Too bad they're often the ones sent to meet others with guns who might have already shown criminal intent.

I would hate to have my pet slaughtered like that, but I don't think the whole story is shown in that article...
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Postby Ilshadrial » Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:29 pm

You cannot fault the police office...

It was a dog, he was trying to handle the situation....It is not like her blew off the head of a "tax-payer".

NEXT!

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Postby Corth » Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:05 pm

Cops do a difficult job and are under a lot of stress. That being said, many cops who started out wanting to do the right thing by protecting the innocent end up burning out and becoming a really negative force. I get the feeling when reading this story that the cop shot the dog in order to impress upon the family the seriousness of the matter. I mean, gosh darnit, he pulls over a car full of carjackers and they end up acting like a bunch of innocent people! The nerve! But anyway, its very easy to blame the system when you can't put forth any alternative. Are you people suggesting we get rid of police altogether? Mind if i buy my airplane ticket first?

Corth

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Postby Gyrx » Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:14 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>But anyway, its very easy to blame the system when you can't put forth any alternative. Are you people suggesting we get rid of police altogether? Mind if i buy my airplane ticket first?

Corth

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Only if i can get the window seat!
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Postby Mikayla » Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>Cops do a difficult job and are under a lot of stress. That being said, many cops who started out wanting to do the right thing by protecting the innocent end up burning out and becoming a really negative force. I get the feeling when reading this story that the cop shot the dog in order to impress upon the family the seriousness of the matter. I mean, gosh darnit, he pulls over a car full of carjackers and they end up acting like a bunch of innocent people! The nerve! But anyway, its very easy to blame the system when you can't put forth any alternative. Are you people suggesting we get rid of police altogether? Mind if i buy my airplane ticket first?

Corth

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh yes corth, i am going to take my wife and kids and my family dogs while i go car jacking, oh please Image like i said, no FUCKING common sense Image



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Ilshadrial
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Postby Ilshadrial » Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:18 pm

Umm, this is the USA mikabitch, you never know what sort of freaks are out there!

Love you! hheheh Image

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Postby Rausrh » Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:53 pm

"I get the feeling when reading this story that the cop shot the dog in order to impress upon the family the seriousness of the matter."

Sure...And I'm sure he was thinking to himself: "Next I'm kneecaping the kid, that'll get the parents talking..."

Watching the video (here if you don't want to pay for CNN's:
http://www.local6.com/orlpn/news/stories/news-187947320030109-110148.html
)it looks like a playful dog to me, but I'm not out there at night, still tense after thinking there was a bank robbery. I couldn't tell, maybe the dog lunged for him maybe not.


"like i said, no FUCKING common sense"
Because people who rob banks are full of common sense right? Just like the car jackers, murders, rapestist, muggers etc. They just known the world over for the amazing display of common sense?

[This message has been edited by Rausrh (edited 01-10-2003).]
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Postby Mikayla » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:24 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rausrh:
<B>"I get the feeling when reading this story that the cop shot the dog in order to impress upon the family the seriousness of the matter."

Sure...And I'm sure he was thinking to himself: "Next I'm kneecaping the kid, that'll get the parents talking..."

Watching the video (here if you don't want to pay for CNN's:
http://www.local6.com/orlpn/news/stories/news-187947320030109-110148.html
)it looks like a playful dog to me, but I'm not out there at night, still tense after thinking there was a bank robbery. I couldn't tell, maybe the dog lunged for him maybe not.


"like i said, no FUCKING common sense"
Because people who rob banks are full of common sense right? Just like the car jackers, murders, rapestist, muggers etc. They just known the world over for the amazing display of common sense?

[This message has been edited by Rausrh (edited 01-10-2003).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


no rausrh, what i am saying about common sense is, how many people will take thier wife kids and family pet to do a car jacking?

other thing is, all they did was pull them out of the car and handcuffed them without telling them why. oh man, them cops are going to get so owned in court. the cops did not even bother to check to see if they where the owners of the vehicle, they just got them out and handcuffed them.


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Postby Mikayla » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ilshadrial:
<B>Umm, this is the USA mikabitch, you never know what sort of freaks are out there!

Love you! hheheh Image

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah yeah yeah elvanshaleebiotch i know there are some wacko's out there, but this is rediculous, i am sorry Image



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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:48 pm

The thing that got me the most was the severe lack of common sense on the part of the officers. There were dogs in the car, a car they stopped on the side of a busy road. They failed to contain the potential danger of those dogs, even with the owners of the dogs asking them to please let them close the car doors so the dogs couldn't get out. All they had to do was close the damned car door, but no, how dare those people they had kneeling on the ground at gunpoint ask for any favors like that? The first thing they should have done according to training was contain the scene, which indicated enclosing the dogs, simple to do if they'd just closed the door. Appropriate action would have indicated enclosing the animals, calling for backup, calling for animal control, and then worrying about the interior of the car once the scene was secure.

No amount of money would ever pacify me for what those officers did. If they had been following their own rules and had to shoot the dog in self defense I would feel differently, but they were way out of the ballpark on this one.
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Postby amolol » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:48 pm

looks like they shot it several times to me but thats got nothing huge to do with tit...the fact of the matter is that a family was horibly wronged because someone was beaing stpid and didnt think about what the family was saying when they asked for the car door to be closed...
and Ilshadrial i think the comment about the dog being shot was way out of line...youve never had a pet have you...after a while it isnt just a pet any more its a member of the family...i have several pets and i would be extreamly heart broken if that had happened to me...its hard enough when you hear about your animal being hit by a car and killed...but to watch your pet die...its the same as if you watched your wife gf brother sister mom or dad being killed infront of you
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Postby Zen » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ilshadrial:
<B>You cannot fault the police office...

It was a dog, he was trying to handle the situation....It is not like her blew off the head of a "tax-payer".

NEXT!

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we can all agree that we are very glad they officer in question didn't blow the kids head off instead. If we brush this off as 'just a dog' we are creating a double standard, after all if that was a police dog then the shooter would be charged with a serious crime. Assaulting an officer at the least, murder possibly depending on how the laws are in the state.

-Lorgan

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Postby Rausrh » Fri Jan 10, 2003 9:08 pm

"no rausrh, what i am saying about common sense is, how many people will take thier wife kids and family pet to do a car jacking?"

I wasn't very clear, let me try again. Criminals do not use common sense. Noone with common sense would commit such a violent crime as I described. It is unfair to expect the police to react to a criminal as if the criminal is using common sense, they are not.

"other thing is, all they did was pull them out of the car and handcuffed them without telling them why."

What makes you think the police need to explain to these people whats going on before they have the situation under control? These people are suspected of commiting a felony. For all the cops know they have another Manson family on their hands. Plenty of time to explain whats going on and to check vehicle registration when everything is calm.

"its the same as if you watched your wife gf brother sister mom or dad being killed infront of you"

*BOGGLE*
ok, your house is on fire, your dog and your wife are inside. Only enough time to save one of them. And you have to STOP and THINK about it? Glad i'm not in your family.

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Postby Sadric » Fri Jan 10, 2003 9:33 pm

yes rausrh, because thinking of a pet as family is the same as choosing between having to save a sibling/parent/child and a pet. give me a break.

plain and simple - the cops had the people cuffed and at gunpoint, and yet left the car doors open. they knew the car contained an animal, thus they should have never let it out. the situation WAS under control until the *cops* screwed it up by choosing to add an "uncontrollable" element to it - ie, the dog that should never have been let out of the car.
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Postby thanuk » Fri Jan 10, 2003 9:47 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mikayla:
<B> oh yes corth, i am going to take my wife and kids and my family dogs while i go car jacking, oh please Image like i said, no FUCKING common sense Image

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two weeks ago in Brooklyn, NY, there were 5 people broken down at a gas station. Husband, wife, 2 kids, and husbands friend. After their car broke down, another man in the gas station offered them a ride home. They accepted, and had the man drive them into one of the worst parts of brooklyn in flatbush avenue. They proceeded to the destination, and after arriving, the two men proceeded to shoot the man in face 3 times. They dumped his dead body off on the side of the road, and went on a family trip in the man's car, after robbing his corpse of any cash and jewelry.

The cop shot a dog. Its a friggin dog. They die. You get a new one. You may think of it as a member of the family, you may think of it as your friend, but guess what, its a friggin dog. They sell them at the store. Pretend it got hit by a car, go get sparky #2, and get on with your life. Its just an animal, its not a person.


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Postby Todrael » Fri Jan 10, 2003 9:57 pm

Thank you, Thanuk Image

I wonder how many dogs we fried yesterday in those blast furnaces we call the pound.

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Postby Mikayla » Fri Jan 10, 2003 10:27 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B> Two weeks ago in Brooklyn, NY, there were 5 people broken down at a gas station. Husband, wife, 2 kids, and husbands friend. After their car broke down, another man in the gas station offered them a ride home. They accepted, and had the man drive them into one of the worst parts of brooklyn in flatbush avenue. They proceeded to the destination, and after arriving, the two men proceeded to shoot the man in face 3 times. They dumped his dead body off on the side of the road, and went on a family trip in the man's car, after robbing his corpse of any cash and jewelry.

The cop shot a dog. Its a friggin dog. They die. You get a new one. You may think of it as a member of the family, you may think of it as your friend, but guess what, its a friggin dog. They sell them at the store. Pretend it got hit by a car, go get sparky #2, and get on with your life. Its just an animal, its not a person.


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nukie anyone killed my dogs would die slowly, very very slowly Image

i would shoot the guy in the leg and let my dogs do the rest Image


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Postby mezheru » Fri Jan 10, 2003 10:33 pm

If the situation happened exactly as it reads, then I have compiled this list of should-haves:

-The cop should have shut the door on the dog like the family suggested.
-The cop should have said "oh, a mommy, daddy, daughter, and their cute dog - they don't look like carjackers."
-The cop should sprayed the dog with mace if he felt threatened.
-The cop should have used common sense

Please note, I'm not one of those people who thinks its time to riot every time some crackhead gets shot while resisting arrest. I agree, a dog is not a person, and that's why there should be an investigation and not a lynching. Though it seems the cop involved is a moron.
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Jan 10, 2003 10:36 pm

So the police should be able to shoot any dog they so desire because it's only a dog? Kind of like a tshirt, right? Replaceable. Property. Police officers should be able to destroy any property they like even though they could have easily prevented the necessity for that (and their training and the codes they follow demand they secure the scene before anything else), simply because they're doing their jobs? This isn't about what you think about animals, it's about officers who step WAY over their boundaries unnecessarily, causing unnecessary pain and misery because they couldn't follow their own rules.

And just because you see a pet as nothing more than a moving piece of furniture doesn't mean everybody has to share your views. Some people really care for their pets a great deal, just because you don't have that within you doesn't mean it's right to demean it. No, an animal is not a human. Yes, animals are put to death in the pound. Yes, animals are hunted and killed for food and sport. In some areas of the world female babies are still put to death as an accepted practice within that culture. We're all different and we all see life differently.

A pet who has been with the same family for years, who has grown up with the children and has both played with and protected them can be much more than just a piece of property. If you have never experienced that please don't talk down to those who have.
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Postby moritheil » Fri Jan 10, 2003 10:54 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zen:
<B> I think we can all agree that we are very glad they officer in question didn't blow the kids head off instead. If we brush this off as 'just a dog' we are creating a double standard, after all if that was a police dog then the shooter would be charged with a serious crime. Assaulting an officer at the least, murder possibly depending on how the laws are in the state.

-Lorgan

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree with Zen. This is a double standard, if only for the fact that anyone who tries to resist when a police dog mauls him is usually charged with 'assault on a police officer'.

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Postby muma » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:08 pm

.nevermind

[This message has been edited by muma (edited 01-10-2003).]
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Postby Vahok » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:44 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rausrh:
<B>"I guess they brought the dog and kids for their crimewave"

I'd hate to live in Vahok's world where all the police are like "Nah, lets not bother him, he don't LOOK like a criminal. I'm sure he's fine."

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No, I'd rather live in your system. The one where everyone who gets pulled over is handcuffed, has their dog shot, and the officer's name is not released. That's the better one right? I never once said, "Let's not pull them over". Pull them over, make sure you and your fellow officers are safe, ensure you have the right suspects, follow procedure (I doubt shooting dogs is in the manual; maybe I'm wrong).....basically don't go on a rampage. The fact it was a dog isn't important; should he have shot period? Firing a gun on a highway is always a super idea I hear. Last resort, sure. But I doubt his life was in danger of a medium-sized dog (10 kg?). Would it really have hurt him? We aren't talking about a massive dog or a type of dog known to be vicious (pitbull..not saying all of them are).

Has common sense really left society in general? I mean shutting a door sure is difficult these days...what a tricky way to defeat that super intelligent dog.



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Postby Vahok » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:59 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ensis:
<B> The system hired theM? Oh yeathey must've forgot to put the checkbox into the application that said "if you ever pull someone over on the freeway, and they have dogs..would you shoot the dogs?"

Sooner or later you just have to realize the fact that in EVERY organization there are going to be a few idiots. If you are part of one of those organizations you too would say "hey, back off, we're not all like that" Be objective.. like you said, you know lots of cops that you like.. don't make blanket statements, you yourself bashed your own friends with that comment.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, not all cops are this stupid. However, in a forum I can write my opinion, and my opinion is the system blows ass...

(P.S. I am currently watching the video, the dog was REAL small. Officer Hall (found out his name) was cleared of not using excessive force....nice system. Why am I not surprised?

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Meatshield

[This message has been edited by Vahok (edited 01-10-2003).]
Vahok
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Postby Vahok » Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:06 am

Other note, everyone should watch the video. Unless you are sensitive, it's pretty bad. I'm not an expert, but Officer Hall really screwed up. I've had shits bigger than that dog. The news says he is having death threats now.....

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Meatshield
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Postby Guest » Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:46 am

Wow! Seen the video on TV this morning with the family their in an interview.
That cop is goin down bigtime Image

He said he thought it was a pitbull!
Gimme a break.
It was a little poodle wagging it's tail wanting to be petted.


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Sadric
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Postby Sadric » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:13 am

the dog was a half-pitbull mix with something else, but medium sized. however, at least on my screen, it looks like he completely runs by one or two people - not the sign of a bloodythirsty dog trying to protect it's master heh. not to mention the other cops also knew the things were in there, as you can see one walk right up to the back of the van and look in.
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Postby delmair » Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:00 am

keep in mind, police officers themselves also
get in some interesting situations themselves.
Just last night there was a shooting involving
a 15 year old boy who shot an officer through
the jaw and out his eye socket after the officer
responded to a domestic dispute. The backup
officers shot the kid through the chest. both
were in critical condition this morning, but
the youth has been upgraded to serious condition.
IMHO the officers are always in a constant state
of not knowing what will happen next, and always
on edge, so don't do/cause anything to happen
that might spook em, or else you might just
end up like the dog. They have well-paid city
attorneys as well as their union attorneys on
their side, not many people in america can afford
attorneys like that.


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Delmair Aamoren
Mikayla
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Postby Mikayla » Sat Jan 11, 2003 2:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by delmair:
<B>keep in mind, police officers themselves also
get in some interesting situations themselves.
Just last night there was a shooting involving
a 15 year old boy who shot an officer through
the jaw and out his eye socket after the officer
responded to a domestic dispute. The backup
officers shot the kid through the chest. both
were in critical condition this morning, but
the youth has been upgraded to serious condition.
IMHO the officers are always in a constant state
of not knowing what will happen next, and always
on edge, so don't do/cause anything to happen
that might spook em, or else you might just
end up like the dog. They have well-paid city
attorneys as well as their union attorneys on
their side, not many people in america can afford
attorneys like that.


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


yeah but there is also the police video, which is the most damning evidence against the police


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Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Sat Jan 11, 2003 3:03 pm

Ashiwi, you are my hero. Image

My dog. (Link courtesy of my brother's depressing webpage)

*cheer* Mikayla

(EDIT: Picked a better photo)
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[This message has been edited by Xisiqomelir (edited 01-11-2003).]
Mikayla
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Postby Mikayla » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:51 pm

my dogs are doberman's and rots, so i guess i dont worry to much at my house Image

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Postby Baikalisan » Sun Jan 12, 2003 3:21 am

Sorry guys gonna have to agree with Thanuk on this one.

Mind you the cop should probly not of shot the dog... BUT... you have to take into consideration the fact that it was a charged atmosphere, he was revved up and nervous .... He thought he had criminals, its not like families havent ever been out and about together doing things that are against the law, the dog jumped out, and ran around and then back at him.. he made a split second decision and shot it... He was doing his job...
Chasing the flashlight, riiiiight

How many times has somebody said their dog is not dangerous and wouldnt hurt a fly, and then the next week it mauls an 8 year old (or anybody for that matter) to death at the school bus stop.

if i thought a dog was bout to bite my ass would i shoot it, HELL yes, poodle or not!



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Baikalisan Terrorforge- Valsharess Elg'Caress - Orbdrin D'oloth

Ellana tells you 'i WISH he was the energizer bunny. all i'd need to do is take out the batteries and duckpond him'
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Postby Mikayla » Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Baikalisan:
<B>Sorry guys gonna have to agree with Thanuk on this one.

Mind you the cop should probly not of shot the dog... BUT... you have to take into consideration the fact that it was a charged atmosphere, he was revved up and nervous .... He thought he had criminals, its not like families havent ever been out and about together doing things that are against the law, the dog jumped out, and ran around and then back at him.. he made a split second decision and shot it... He was doing his job...
Chasing the flashlight, riiiiight

How many times has somebody said their dog is not dangerous and wouldnt hurt a fly, and then the next week it mauls an 8 year old (or anybody for that matter) to death at the school bus stop.

if i thought a dog was bout to bite my ass would i shoot it, HELL yes, poodle or not!

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


and if the cop would have listened to the people and shut the car door, then the whole thing could have been adverted


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Her Royal Bitchness Eye Aeturnum
Mikayla
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Postby Mikayla » Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:35 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mikayla:
<B>
and if the cop would have listened to the people and shut the car door, then the whole thing could have been adverted


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


other thing is that, when you see those cops shows, you see cops looking in the car to see who is in the car. you going to tell me he did not notice the dog?


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Postby Drakkoth » Sun Jan 12, 2003 10:42 pm

Laugh, Thanuk, you raging dumbass. It's not about whether it's a person, or an animal, or an inanimate object. It's about attachment.

You personally don't place any importance on animals because you can buy them at a store and a lot of them die at the pound. That's fine. I don't place a lot of importance on other people's animals either. Hell, I don't place a lot of importance on people I don't know, either.

You for instance. If someone shot you, I can honestly say I would not give one fuck. There's a lot of people in this world, and a lot of them die everyday. That goes for pets too. Can't care about everyone and everything in this world.

But I do care about the people close to me, and about my pets, and yes, I am attached to them.

Now listen real close because this is important: they are _not_ replaceable by going to the store and getting another one. That is like saying a child is replaceable by simply having another one.

Everyone attaches value to different things in their life. They care about things and feel strongly about them. For some people, it's a pet. It is not your place to say that their priorities are misplaced simply because they are different from your own.

If someone shot my dog, and said 'whatever, go to the store and get another one,' I would hurt them as bad as I could without ensuring a life sentence for myself in jail. Although, now that I think about it, I may end up with a murder charge too.

You don't indiscriminately eradicate things people care about. It's that simple.

Is this really that hard of a concept?
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Postby Rausrh » Mon Jan 13, 2003 2:50 pm

"...if the cop would have listened to the people and shut the car door..."

Police training 101:
Whenever the suspected criminal(s) ask you to do something do it. It is usualy something to help you and ensure your saftey and help with a quick, safe arrest. Criminals only have your best intrests at heart.


Sadric
"yes rausrh, because thinking of a pet as family is the same as choosing between having to save a sibling/parent/child and a pet. give me a break."
(Assuming sarcasm)
I was replying to Amolol's post where he wrote that watching a pet die was the same as watching a family member die. If you are not being sarcastic, I fear I must also boggle at you. *BOGGLE*


When I watched the video, I couldn't tell when it was that the dogs got out of the car. (I have no sound at work so I can't hearanything either.) Anyone see?



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Postby Zen » Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:33 pm

I hate to break it to you guys, but the police do NOT have the right to destroy your property. What the police can and cannot do varies from state to state, but as a general rule they can't rampage your property according to the law. They very often destroy property and get away with it because the people who's property is destroyed are put in the position of having to pay for their criminal defense or go after the cops for property damage. If the cops get it wrong, bust up the wrong house or rampage over an innocent man, the lawyers tend to have a hayday with property damages.

Now step back a minute. What was the event that triggered this whole sequence? The man left his wallet on the top of his car. You have to ask yourself what in the scenario justified dragging the family out and handcuffing them rather than simply asking for ID, for starters? For whatever reason, the police over reacted from the begining.

I think that unless you're a completel idiot, you have to agree that the police where out of line, for the ENTIRE situation. They had a man and his family handcuffed for stealing his own car, then they shot his dog. How wrong are they? Is there any justification for the officers actions? Those are questions that you get to decide for yourselves, and the judge gets to decide for the officers. To simply brush these kinds of questions aside just shows that you prefer your brain in the firmly off position.

-Zen

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Postby Corth » Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:00 pm

I gotta agree with Zen. What the cop did wasn't justified under the circumstances. Granted its a dangerous job and they need to take precautions. But if you took that far enough they would be handcuffing us during traffic violations until they could ascertain that we werent a threat. It was over the line for that cop to Pull the family out of the car in the manner that he did given what little information he had suggesting they were criminals. Shooting their damn dog.. well its certainly adding insult to injury. 95% of the time you will find me defending the police in these types of cases because I feel that they have a tricky job and should be given the benefit of the doubt. I find the actions of this particular cop, however, indefensible.

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Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Rausrh » Tue Jan 14, 2003 3:01 pm

"You have to ask yourself what in the scenario justified dragging the family out and handcuffing them rather than simply asking for ID, for starters?"

Very simple. The police were operating under the information that the poeple in this car were involved in a robbery. The way to make a traffic stop for a suspected felony is not to walk up to the window and ask for license and registration.

I hate to break it to you guys, but the police DO have the right to destroy your property if it is necessary ensure saftey or themselves or others. "I'm sorry ma'am, I know your car is on fire and your door is stuck, but I can't break your window, that would be destroying property." Do they have the right to toss my house for a noise violation? Of course not. Do they have the right to toss my house because I had a meth lab in the basement that might blow up half the neighborhood? Of course.

The police in this situation acting on bad information. But on the information they had they acted correctly by getting everyone out of the car and handcuffed. You don't bother turning off the headlights, shutting off the car and closeing the doors until the people who might shoot you are secured. Maybe the real person to blame here is the dispatcher.

Did the dogs get out before the people were secured?

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Postby thanuk » Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Drakkoth:
<B>
Now listen real close because this is important: they are _not_ replaceable by going to the store and getting another one. That is like saying a child is replaceable by simply having another one.

You don't indiscriminately eradicate things people care about. It's that simple.

Is this really that hard of a concept?</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Comparing a dog to a child is one of the dumbest things i have ever heard. Dogs are property that can be bought and sold. It is a possession. Granted it is alive, but it is just a possession. People are care about their cars too, so should the cop not impound that 67 corvette that the drunk driver got pulled over in, because he looooooves it so much? Your argument is retarded. A dog is replaceable, which is proven by the fact that you can buy one at the store. Hell, you can go to the pound and get one for the price of the shots.

The life of a dog is not worth the potential damage it would do if it were allowed to attack. Dogs are shot all the time for biting humans. The dog was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and it chose to run at an armed police officer during a felony arrest. The dog got shot because it presented a physical threat to a police officer. Too bad, get a new dog. Maybe one that doesn't run toward armed strangers in the middle of the night. There are real bad cops out there who shoot people all the time, this was just a dumbass cop who shot a dog. Get over it.


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Thanuk Pantherclaw

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Postby Corth » Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:53 pm

The dog got shot cause the officer wanted to be a prick, thanuk. Plain and simple.

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Goddamned slippery mage.

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