Bounty Hunting

[Guest]

I have a question for the List. In some of our cities we have a "justice system" in place for those you enough killing in the towns. They break the law, fail to pay fines and then a price is placed on them.

The question is . . . Why do those who break the law and get captured whine like a three year old? I've been threatened that I will never get a group and my name is forever ruined now that I am turning in players for cash. This is part of the game people!

I think if you don't want to be hunted, don't kill in town and pay your fines. What do other think on this?

Gods? Give us some input here too please.

[Kiloppile]

It is certainly part of the game. But you obviously do run the risk of alienating people. What are you expecting that the Gods will do, force people to group you?

I would think long and hard about turning people in.

[Silverast Rubicyn]

That is true, in the real world, would you expect someone who you turn into the police to invite you to a BBQ or something? Just a chance you take with turning people in is all.

[Guest]

Nah, I don't need the God's help to get groups. I was looking for there opinion on why they originally put justice in. Those that are whining are not the ones I usually group with anyway.

I am looking for other thoughts here, opinions.

[Lyt]

They put justice in because some of the immorts were upset that they were writing new zones, and people were sticking close to towns to do exp and stuff. They got mad about this so put in the justice garbage to try to force people out of towns to do stuff. Well it didn't work, and people are still doing exp in hometowns.

And I have to agree. If you turn in people and they end up getting executed and lose exp, don't be expecting to many groups especially if you turn in the major group leaders and get them killed. You never know if one of the leaders is on as an alt, so you never know who you are turning in. So if you chose to play the justice game, don't be surprised if you get blacklisted for messing with the wrong person. As I see it, the justice code is a way to try to force people to role play. This is wrong.

Lyt

[izarek]

Sweyn, you go right on and keep playin with justice. Those ppl who complain are usually just immature little kids who wanna have their cake and eat it too (and make sure no one else gets a piece). Admittedly, there are somtimes legitimate problems and bugs where ppl get in trouble uncecessarily. Usually, however, its their own fault or carelessness. They know the rules and if they get caught, its their own damn fault.
Think of it this way...you're helping find out who out there is a whiny twink.

Izzy

[Somerled]

I couldnt agree more Iz! You go Sweyn! I remember last Soj when Nilan had a huge bounty on his head, practically every High Level Ranger and a few Pallys were always after him! and ya know what .. He LOVED it! he never whined, he never threatened to blacklist or anything like that, he rolled with the flow and rolled with the game, a REAL player, not a TWINK whiner! There are many players here who CLAIM to be of the elite players, I beg to differ ... an elite player isnt just someone who is a high level, its also someone is a good mudder who enjoys the game for what it is and doesnt make it thier life, doesnt threaten to blacklist others, doesnt get bent simply because they died. Whinin and makin threats just because ya got caught? ... get a LIFE! Id hate to see what kind of person you are in RL .. as Iz said, probably a juvenile kid with no social skills. GROW UP! Its a game ppl, If im on the list (which I never will be) and I get hunted down and turned in, Ill grin at my captor and laugh that I finally got caught. Dying and losing some exp, yeah .. so what .. again its a game .. A GAME!

[Treladian]

I second what Izarek said. Lots of players don't hold grudges, just a few that do. I'll also add that it lets you know who gets careless when doing exp. It's not too hard not to get caught by justice if you don't bite off more than you chew. Lots of mobs scream for help, but few ever get it

[Jegzed]

Its very easy.

If you turn me in and make me lose exp (ie pkill me!) then do NOT expect me to group with you again...

In my view the bounty hunters are in the same category as that twink who sits at inn's at a pkill mud to kill people as they log on.

/Jegzed

[cherzra]

I won't turn someone in because I don't care for the trouble of finding them, tieing them up, dragging them etc for a few measly plats.

But if I did, I don't wanna hear them WHINE!

There's this great saying from RL:

IF YOU CAN'T DO THE TIME, DON'T DO THE CRIME

[Lyt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Somerled:
I couldnt agree more Iz! You go Sweyn! I remember last Soj when Nilan had a huge bounty on his head, practically every High Level Ranger and a few Pallys were always after him! and ya know what .. He LOVED it! he never whined, he never threatened to blacklist or anything like that, he rolled with the flow and rolled with the game, a REAL player, not a TWINK whiner! </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What are you smoking? I don't think Nilan enjoyed it. I won't speak for him, but there were people who would tie him up and drag him into aggro places, and some people even tied him up and dragged him to astral. People were abusing every bug and loophole with justice to try to cheat the game. That's not roleplaying or "doing your duty" as a champion of justice. That is twinkishness. You must have some pretty good weed to think that someone would have fun being on the recieving end of that.

Lyt

[Sartorix]

If you commit a crime in a town where justice is in effect, you should fully expect to be arrested or hunted. It's really stupid to think otherwise. That's like thinking 'the elite guard won't attack me if i cast faerie fire on him'.
Personally I love the justice code. No one is forcing anyone to role play or even be under the influence of justice. If you don't want any part of it, don't commit crimes. Pretty simple. I think it's really childish to 'blacklist' someone because they turned in you or your friend. It's no one's fault but your own that you're on the wanted list.
Deal with it.

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[This message has been edited by Sartorix (edited 06-09-2001).]

[Jegzed]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sartorix:
<B> If you don't want any part of it, don't commit crimes. Pretty simple. I think it's really childish to 'blacklist' someone because they turned in you or your friend. It's no one's fault but your own that you're on the wanted list. Deal with it.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm all for blacklisting twinks.

If you don't want any part of it, don't commit turn in people. Pretty simple. I think it's really childish to abuse justice because someone did something in a hometown. It's no one's fault but your own that you're on the blackist. Deal with it.

/Jegzed

[Sartorix]

Wait wait wait..

How is using the code for its intended purpose twinking?

Now when the imms add code to prevent someone from doing something, and they keep doing it..that sounds twinkish to me.

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<font color="#0000FF">Disco Lemonade</font>

[This message has been edited by Sartorix (edited 06-09-2001).]

[Lyt]

As long as the mud is set up as it is now, you can't, force people like me and Jegzed to group with people who we don't want to. Fine call us twinks if we don't want to group with people who turn others in for justice. Don't try to fault us for playing the mud the way we want when others chose to play the way they want and it differs from us. If we chose to kill in town and get wanted, fine then and we live with people turning us in and getting us killed. I guess thats the consequences of our actions. But then those that turn us in should also be prepared to live with the consequences of their actions. It goes both ways. Is it worth making 15p off getting someone killed, and then being excluded from future groups because of that action? Both sides need to weigh what they do.

Lyt

[This message has been edited by Lyt (edited 06-09-2001).]

[Nitania]

I think both sides of the arguments are valid. But the bottom line is, forcing others to RP in *any* way should not be allowable by code. It is true that there needs to be a justice system, especially for towns like Waterdeep.. otheriwse Lord P would be running a town of chaos instead of order. My suggestion for this is - GET RID of bounty hunting by PC's.. make it so that the guards hunt you down.. Just like the code knows when an evil enters WD, make it so the code recognizes when a wanted criminal enters WD. This way the justice system still holds up, but the twinkishness of forced RP, turning in and "blacklisting" can be done with.

Nitania

[Malacar]

Decent idea Nitania.

I think bounty hunting by PCs is really dumb, imho, I voiced this before, and was told by not one, but three gods that it was being looked at. I haven't heard jack about it since.

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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.

[Gorkl]

Man, speaking of justice, here is a good one.
I'm hanging out on the docks of Baulder's Gate, and there is this dwarf...Brogar or something like that, I say hi, look at his stuff, not thinking about it, go check the judge. Top o the list my buddy zuurn, for about 30 plat. Right below him is Brogar... So i go to the shop blow about 50 plat on rope...and find Brogar, sleeping by the fisherman, I whip out a rope and try.... Evil and Good supposed to kill each other, Not tie each other up.

That woulda been the best thing i had ever seen if i coulda tied up that sleeping dwarf and drug him to the judge...

Gorkl Break Bones 23 (Troll) Warrior

[This message has been edited by Gorkl (edited 06-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Gorkl (edited 06-10-2001).]

[Tilandal]

NPC already sweap the city for wanted criminals once in a while. I got may ass dragged in by the rdf guards once. Now that was a surprise. Personly I think pc bounty hunting is a bit to abusable but I live with it and try not to get spotted killing guards to often.

[silvea]

Its very easy, I don't group with bounty hunters, I find it simple pkill. and the rpg perspective I even don't understand......

[Nilan]

Regarding Justice:

I have to say i enjoyed the fun roleplay it brought me. I remember having a huge bounty, escaping 3 executions and it was a blast. yes every ranger and paladin and even lil newbies tried tieing me up to claim the bounty on my head, or just tieing me up to roleplay bringing a murder to justice.

whatever the reason, i knew that if turned in I'd receive a death sentence (rofl, thats all the damn Justice Crusaders gave me as a sentence). I never once whined or complained. i never once threatened to blacklist anyone or to have my friends black list anyone. It was all a game to me and i went along with it. If i was executed, so be it ... i was a murderer, most prolly would say i deserved to die for those crimes. Maybe i did, err do.

The only time that Justice got carried away was when certain people decided to use it to get revenge rather than to play in the spirit of the game. Getting dragged through portals and dumped on astral was not part of justice...it was merely a group of individuals desire to get back at me for there own reasons. Its unfortunate that all that happened, but even then, i never whined or complained. I try to shoulder my own responsibilities.

All in all i had a blast with justice, but i agree its not for every one. I liked it cause i roleplayed with those that would hunt me, even if they at first didnt begin with roleplay. we both ended up roleplaying and i think all in all those that hunted me and myself had a blast

Nilan

Assassin, Bane of Waterdeep

[izarek]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nilan:
<B>Regarding Justice:

I have to say i enjoyed the fun roleplay it brought me. I remember having a huge bounty, escaping 3 executions and it was a blast. yes every ranger and paladin and even lil newbies tried tieing me up to claim the bounty on my head, or just tieing me up to roleplay bringing a murder to justice.

Nilan

Assassin, Bane of Waterdeep </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nilan, I wont drag ya to the judge. I'll drag you to the arena portal and fight ya one on one :P Grey Ranger vs Drow Rogue!!

Izzy

[Gorkl]

See, missed my point all together, There is no justice between good and evil cause they hard coded against it.

Gorkl Break Bones (Troll)

[Somerled]

Regarding my post about how Nilan enjoyed it ... I rest my case Lyt! Nilan is a true Elite player IMO ... Nitana .. I think your suggestion is excellent ... if PCs are gonna whine about other PC huntin them down and turning them in and play the ol' "Ill see that you never group with me or my friends" infantile crap ... then turn the justice over to the the WD guards, lets just see how well they fare when thier on the list and they get bagged by the fron gate guards the minute they step in ... or maybe force them to stay in the seedier parts of town where the justice may be a bit more flexible ... bunch of waaa waaaas! Pathetic.

[Dinggle]

Izarek - Nilan would own you!

And Nilan is only an elite player in that he's really really good at playing an assassin/rogue. he does not exclude anyone from groups or conversations, as it the general definition of 'elite' on toril/sojourn.

Nilan is my hero, and at one time my Mud uncle.

Narial Thrikill (from toril)
Chunkta

[FrostWolf]

IMHO I feel that blacklisting someone for roleplaying is wrong... So what if he turns someone in. Blacklisting him from the "CURRENT" friends you have now is understandable but when you say you wont get a group ever means that even in the future you will corrupt someone elses judgement because of YOUR biased opinion just because you commited a crime, GOT CAUGHT, and then got brought in. Had you not been doing something illegal you wouldn't have been on a wanted list and you certainly wouldn't have been tied up and brought in. I have a trigger that tells me who all is on when I have my wanted list timer on.. I go to the judge see who all is on it and off of it and add and remove from my list accordingly. If someone who is wanted is on and close by town I go grab them and get my reward. But to say that you will completely blacklist somene is wrong. You want the person who is role-playing, using a part of the game that is hard coded, to be ruined. But yet you feel it is alright you to commits indecent acts against teh city of splendor. I dont understand it. and besides its a game. Yes even in character your character would be pissed but only the people there who saw sweyn bring him in could say anything.. Sweyn could deny it to everyone else and they should believe him.. Once you log in real life is out the door. You log on to role play. If you bring it to a personal level that is your own fault. But do not put the blame off onto somene else. I know sweyn personally and he is a really cool person and he ROLE-plays unlike some of these people who are whining about getting hunted down and brought in who are ROLL-playing. This isnt a arcade game, this mud has always been for the more experienced players. I think sweyn is just using everything to his advantage. Hell there was one time pre wipe I was in the middle of a vault run and got pulled all the way down to waterdeep and turned in.. granted I didnt get killed but I had to pay a fine. and my group left and that person who tied me up got a group togethor and finished out the vault run. I never said a word.. I was a little miffed personally but in game i understood I did the crime and I paid my time. Well I have rambled on enuff now.. One last question.. If ye are going to black list someone who is takking full advantage of all the features of sojourn does that mean you are going to black list all of sweyn's friends as well? If that is so then It is my honest opinion that you are a twink ass crybaby.

*steps down off his soapbox*

L8r all


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I strike fear into the hearts of my group members when I say "ummm. is there anything aggro in this zone?"

[Sarell]

ponder ponder ponder...

I dont really think it is fair to say that everyone who drags in criminal is just RP.
In RP terms if you dob on a wanted crimanal to be executed, you can fair bet that their buddies are going to kill you. It is Pkilling, you kill other players, I think leave it up to the RDF. Suppose for instance I am not even RPing at all, and I get my name on justice list for doing a quest mob, that was evil, then someone turns me in for 100p. If someone then turns me in and gets me killed, losing hours of exp or even... a level and max hp!, you can't really expect me to say 'oh well thats the way the cookie crumbles'... I want to RP Kill them back hehe!

Another thing that make it not RP, is it is mostly hypocritacal, lots of folk who turn in people for justice have killed their kindred and such out in the wilderness I bet.

Not to get me wrong, I love the idea of getting your ass kicked by guards for fighting in town. Just the player bounty hunter thing is a little one sided. Something that I would LOVE to see would be the minute you try to tie someone up you are flagged PKable to whoever you are trying to capture, let them defend themselves. This would make bounty hunting into a practiced art not a bit of luck as it is now.

The code for justice isn't that neat atm. Besides, WD and BG run by criminals anyhow, who cares for their half baited justice...

Lots of Love
Sarell/Ladak/etc .. aka Patrick
(who you never find in town anyhow hehe)

[Ssarra]

I like the idea of NPC's as bounty hunters. If someone kills in WD or another justice town, then the town, say every mud week or so, sends out some hired hunters to look for the players. It wouldn't be fun if they just loaded and tracked right to you though... more fun if they could track slowly, and the closer they got, the faster they tracked, or maybe make it time wise. Maybe have the mobs, once they find you say something to let you know they found you for those crimes, and try to tie you up, kill you, whatever. Would be awesome if when they kill you though if you could watch while they drag your corpse back for bounty... make a little RP scene out of it that you could cancel if you didnt' want to watch.

As far as people draggin you in, don't bitch. You commited a crime, deal with it. Grow up and take responsibility for your actions, whether it be playing a game or not.

Ssarra

[izarek]

I agree...NPC bounty hunters hunting wanted PC criminals and also PC bounty hunters hunting wanted NPC criminals. Same fun and no !ullsh!t.

Izzy, who used to have fun with the justice code

[Jegzed]

I think justice just is silly when you can't defend yourself.

If somebody walked up to me, if I'm a mighty spellcaster and tried to tie a rope to me, I'd toss a fireball in his face.

/jegzed

[Gorkl]

But this would be best if me being a troll could take in a dwarf. Therefore it sucks that to participate in justice i must bring my evil frinds in. I would much rather hunt down those rangers on that list.

Gorkl Break Bones (Troll)

[Vigis]

Personally, I have never actually dragged somebody into justice. I did see somebody on the list that I REALLY REALLY wanted to take in once, but I never did find them. However, I think justice is very cool. Thing is, it is all a personal decision. If I were to see somebody that was on the wanted list in GN, I probably would drag them all the way back just because they committed a crime in my town. Think of it this way, if in RL you knew that somebody comitted a crime, would you turn them in? I suppose it depends on the crime, but if it was a complete stranger you might do it, if you knew them you would prolly think about it. Here's the deal, if you are playing an alt, then play the alt. You shouldn't punish somebody for dragging in your alt. After all, whoever they are, they probably don't know your main char. If you are a group leader and playing an alt, don't whine if your alt gets dragged in to face the judge. Your name is not known, you have no reputation, so don't try to punish somebody for RPing their char. I can promise you this, if you are on the wanted list in GN, I will drag you all the way back there. I could care less about WD or BG or any of the other justice towns. Just don't commit a crime in my town. That is how I RP it. Kill all the mobs you want in WD, but get on the wanted list in GN and run into me you'll have trouble unless you can break my rope.

Vigis Wolverinefang -Clan of the FrostBear-

[izarek]

Touk, that's completely reasonable. I think it has more to do with those ppl saying they're gonna start telling everyone not to group with ya and all that type of stuff. That's what I'm callin childish.

Izzy, my dad can beat up your dad

[sok]

i think it be cooler if gods allow evils to turn goodies in and vice versa. i can image dragging cherzra to wd and waiting for his corpse to melt. man it be better than invasion eq. or dragging malacar to gh man i'm set for enchanter eq. but since i never really got to experience this bounty hunter thingy cuz it came in when i was higher lvl and high lvl xp was usually better outside of town w/ the exception of wall elite.

i know it's beaten to ground but i wanna comment anyways. i say lyt is a elitist twink and we all shouldn't group w/ him cuz he wont rp and give me his 3rd tiny silver ring. and i can beat him up if he's a conj w/ small elies.

[Sarvis]

Heh... this thread may be partly aimed at me. I was grouped with a cleric trying to do some exp on the shady's, and Sweyn came in and "captured" my cleric while he was trying to mem. I commented to Sweyn on how he'd screwed me over by capturing my cleric... then later said it must have been nice to gain 15p by forcing my cleric to lose 150p (his fine.) I, myself, have never made the wanted list... so why should I be punished by a bounty hunter? Even if not as severely as the actual criminal. Furthermore the cleric had accidentally attacked the wrong mob and that was the only reason he was on the wanted list.

Sweyn, you said, "Nah, I don't need the God's help to get groups. I was looking for there opinion on why they originally put justice in. Those that are whining are not the ones I usually group with anyway."

To me this sounds like you only hunt people you don't know or don't like. Given this fact how can you be surprised when people say they won't group with you afterwards? You are very much declaring them your enemy... live with it. Or, said another way, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

All that said... I don't think it would be so bad if you could defend yourself somehow from a bounty hunter. Back on Soj2 I posted the idea for non-lethal combat to knock out a criminal before you turn him in. Basically you would type 'capture Nilan' and a fight would start, but when you went below 0hp you would just end up unconscious, and could be tied up. Group members would also be able to assist you... so one person coming in and screwing a group over would be pretty unlikely.

I kind of like the NPC idea, but that seems to take something away from players... in general the more things players have to do the better. The only problem is when one player's fun starts taking away from other players'.

Sarvis

[Gormal]

Justice in its current incarnation does not fit into a !pkill mud.

3nj0y because I am l33t and you are not

[Ragorn]

(sarcasm)

You stepped on my foot.

I am NEVER grouping with you again. Remember that time, 35 levels ago, when you turned me in and I lost half an hour of exp time because of the execution? Yeah, that's why you can't come to Jot. Nevermind that there are no other Clerics online and now we have to sit 3w for 3 hours until someone else logs on, but there is NO WAY I'm taking you zoning you twink.

I love Sojourn politics.

(/sarcasm)

- Ragorn

[Lyt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sok:
i know it's beaten to ground but i wanna comment anyways. i say lyt is a elitist twink and we all shouldn't group w/ him cuz he wont rp and give me his 3rd tiny silver ring. and i can beat him up if he's a conj w/ small elies. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Sok those are fighting words! I will kill you!!! Oh wait, I can't :( My ellies are too small! I think conjurers are the only class that a cleric could solo :) Hurry and get ress bro!

Lyt

[Sarvis]

Heh Rags... Sweyn's a warrior, so not much chance of him being the only warrior on and needed for a jot run.

Sarvis

[Galok Icewolf]

theres a difference between being 15th level when turned in and 45th level. If someone turned me in, and I was killed at 15th level, big deal... but at 45th level Im gonna be pissed loosing that much exp that is already hard to gain. E.g. Im going to go out of my way to give someone a chance to get something cool that cost me time. Just the way it is with me.

I don't like wasting my time, I hate it when others waste my time.

[Ragorn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B>Heh Rags... Sweyn's a warrior, so not much chance of him being the only warrior on and needed for a jot run.

Sarvis</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There have been several occasions where I have not been able to put together a zone run for lack of shieldpunchers. Vault notably, where you need several.

If you're level 45, nobody below at least 35 is going to tie you up. Tieup is dex/agi and level related. That's why Nilan had such a grand time laughing at all the level 20 paladins who wanted to turn him in. If you're level 50, and there's a level 45 character out there who hates you enough to turn you in for something, chances are he doesn't give a crap about grouping with you anyway.

Justice is a playtoy for the low levels. This, just like people camping the flagon, will become less important 20 levels from where (most of) you are now.

- Ragorn

[Jegzed]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ragorn:
<B> There have been several occasions where I have not been able to put together a zone run for lack of shieldpunchers. Vault notably, where you need several.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*cough* shieldpuncher(s) for vault *cough*
Are we talking the 5 person, 45 minutes zone called Ice Crag?

Why would you need a shieldpuncher?

/Jegzed

[Yayaril]

I agree with Ragorn. Bounty hunting was fun at lower levels, moderately profitable, and I'll probably still bring in the occasional ranger and paladin, but I've found more lucrative cash cows...


Yayaril

[Ragorn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B> *cough* shieldpuncher(s) for vault *cough*
Are we talking the 5 person, 45 minutes zone called Ice Crag?

Why would you need a shieldpuncher?

/Jegzed</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*roll*

You're so elite, Murth :P

- Ragorn

[This message has been edited by Ragorn (edited 06-13-2001).]

[Gormal]

Since when do we need shieldpunchers in vault? Try spiderhaunt for a midlevel puncher zone.

[Ssarra]

Heh, how about this! If you're on the wanted list, and someone comes to get you and turn you in for a measly 15p, BARGAIN! Say, hey, I'll give you 20p not to turn me in, you don't get dead and/or save yourself 150p, and they make more than the bounty! Then, you could code it so that the names are removed from the list after a certain period of time, maybe one mud year or something. This is so that people don't keep returning to turn you in... maybe flag the hunter as having struck a deal with the criminal, so they can't tie you up again.

[This message has been edited by Ssarra (edited 06-14-2001).]

[Yayaril]

Funny you should mention that Ssara- once during Sojourn2, I had a cleric trapped in his guild and he bribed me with 100 platinum not to catch him. There is a statute of limitations on being wanted, and I think it's exactly one month.


Yayaril

[Nokie]

I thought it was fun to participate in the justice system (for a rogue at least) during alpha.

But some spineless coward showed that it is just too abusable, so no justice for Nokie!