Why is it so hard to just get along? :)

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Nitania
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Why is it so hard to just get along? :)

Postby Nitania » Mon Jun 18, 2001 7:55 pm

I am probably opening a HUGE can of worms here, but what makes it so hard for players to get along?

I'd like to discuss all the problems we see in grouping or other situations which make us all cringe, and search for possible solutions. I know I for one can not stand it when things happen that make a normally smooth-going-group start arguing and break up.

Discuss group politics, race war politics, class vs class politics, and anything else that causes huge tension.


My ONLY request on this is please dont flame, make logical points. Image

Nitania -really wants to know what makes it so hard.
izarek
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Postby izarek » Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:04 pm

Hehe. A dangerous topic of discussion. I think the basis of the problem is that people need to realize that its only a game and different ppl will play it differently and with different goals. Gotta lighten up!
Izzy
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Postby Wargar » Mon Jun 18, 2001 9:58 pm

Both posts above mine are correct I think. It's about the individual people's goals, and the group being unclear about eq. distribution.

Some people play for fun (goal #1) and get eq along the way (goal #2). Others seem to put equip. as the priority (goal #1) and fun as the side effect (goal #2). These two types of people will always have difficulty getting along.

The first type of person will be in a zone group and, realizing everybody worked equally hard, everybody should have the same right to bid on any item, will do so. This alone will piss off the other type, and god help this person if they win..

The second type will be much more efficient thruout the zone (speed = important) and only bid on items that "belong" to their class. They will be upset with anybody who bid on "out of class" items (cleric bidding flamberge for example), yet will turn a blind eye when they already own a flamberge themselves, yet bid on it again next trip (it is afterall, a warrior item..) even tho others in the group may need it.

Of course not everybody fits perfectly into these stereotypes, but the majority do. And these two types of people will never get along well.


Seperately, there is the difference in the "elite" players, and the non-"elite" players. Whats the difference? In most cases nothing. The non-"elite" seem to think the "elite" players are egotistical simply because they will not break down and allow the non-elite (quotes got annoying already :P) into their groups.. when in fact the elite are simply a core group of friends who stick together. They don't NEED more, so why take more? (By need I mean if you have 30 friends online, and of those there are always enough online to do any zone.. the more friends you make, the more friends you have to turn down once the group is capped right? Whats easier, saying NO to a friend, or saying NO to a perfect ("non elite") stranger?) But still, most people see it is the elites refusing to teach/share with the non-elites. (Personally i've known several ppl who viewed themselves as non-elite that were many times more skilled than your average "elite" player)


All of which are small differences really, but most people (whether on the Mud or IRL) have tunnel vision: They can see things from their perspective, but the whole picture escapes them.
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Postby Gindipple » Tue Jun 19, 2001 7:28 am

Topic: Why is it so hard to just get along? Image
Well hrmm, answer this one and I think you're entitled to a nobel peace prize Image
The RL answer is usually religion, but on a mud it's probably something to do more with power, greed, jealously, etc... We humans are natural competitors and we're in a game that do some degree encourages it to the extremes.
I suspect a bell curve could apply in many ways to the people that play on here, with the various outer parts always being mad at the other ends for one reason or another.
One thing I've come to learn on this mud after many years is you get back out of it what you put into it. If you play good and fair, people return that favor.

Gindipple steps out from under the soapbox.
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Postby Glorishan » Tue Jun 19, 2001 7:46 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gindipple:
We humans are natural competitors and we're in a game that do some degree encourages it to the extremes.


Bah, we "humans?" I'm an elf!

Glorishan
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Postby Kalthanan » Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:26 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wargar:
The non-"elite" seem to think the "elite" players are egotistical simply because they will not break down and allow the non-elite (quotes got annoying already :P) into their groups.. when in fact the elite are simply a core group of friends who stick together. They don't NEED more, so why take more? Whats easier, saying NO to a friend, or saying NO to a perfect ("non elite") stranger?) But still, most people see it is the elites refusing to teach/share with the non-elites.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*grin* Finally someone who sees the whole picture.. this is exactly how it is in my situation. Lately, I've heard some comments aimed in my direction about "acting elite" and whatnot when all I'm doing is trying to have fun with a group of my close friends.

To be honest, I'm surpised that they haven't gotten annoyed at me for constantly ghosting due to my crappy laptop crashing or intermittently dropping link because of phone calls.. would any other groups out there be as understanding and accepting?

------------------
Kalthanan N'Drithrander, Knight of Darkness
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Postby Dinggle » Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:44 am

I think the reason folks dont get along on the mud is because people no longer get along in real life.

How many times have you been cut off or nearly hit by an inattentive driver and spent the next few seconds thinking of new and inventive ways of crushing his little honda with your giant SUV?

I remember as a kid when taking a walk in the neighborhood if you passed by someone, even if you didnt know them, you always nodded and said hello. now folks walk eyes down, lost in their own cluttered minds.

how many times has someone tried to take advantage of you in your life, financially or otherwise? how many times have you taken advantage of someone?

the mud will always mirror real life since real people are playing it.

there are elite players (i call them power mudders, go to sleep already dammit) and then there are ELITE players. i rolled a drow a few weeks back and when asking one necro if she wanted to group i was accosted by questions like 'do you know me, who were you before, did you konw me before, do you konw any of my friends'...before getting the yes/no answer. there are some players who will not group with anyone else but their core group, even if hardly any of them are on.


equipment pharming is getting out of hand though. i've seen the same person (not naming names) do the same piece of equipment 5 times in the passed 3 days. seeing as you can only possibly wear two of this item, why does this person continue to go after this item (done solo). to sell, of course. possibly to give to a friend, but apparantly not to any of the other 4 folks who arrived just as this person engaged the mob

intolerable? yes. any rules against it? no.
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Postby vasuviazzar » Tue Jun 19, 2001 10:51 am

just wanted to reply to ding... i dont think that people get along any worse now than they ever did, this is a misnomer. you walk with eyes downcast whenever you are nervous. if you feel comfortable you wont. some one cuts you off, well, either its not biggie or you want to kill them, that is a personal response. getting cut off now isnt any different than people getting cut off 50 years ago, except maybe the cars went slower, it is still the same thing, at the core. anyhow, it is a pet peeve of mine when people point to the degeneration of society and how we are so much worse off than we were before. dont you think media sensationalism has something to do with this? and personal focus/bias? i dunno maybe its just me, but i dont think people have some how gotten more intrinsicaly evil in the last 20 years, maybe more crowded, but thats about it (people dont fight as much if they have more space/resources imho, i suppose this is self evident). people dont get along when they mud or they do, its just how they mesh, and how pissy you are that day, 1st impressions and all. personally i get along with most people i meet. ok, im not gonna ramble anymore.
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Postby Kiloppile » Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:17 am

Hey Kalthanan... got a question about a situation that came up the other day, that I saw you were sorta involved in.

Got a tell from [Group Leader A] asking if I'd come help him do a rare in GC. So I start hauling ass up there, get to the black knight and here "Oh hell".

[Group Leader A] then says "I told [Group Leader B] that it loaded and asked if he could help me do it, and then his group came and killed it."

[Group Leader B] = your illustrious group leader. Any idea if that was a rare that he already knew had loaded?

The reason I ask you is that I was then there when yer group ran outta GC, and you were thanking the group for the help. I personally have no knowledge about whether what I was told was true, but am kinda curious if that sorta thing is going on... and also if you knew about it. (My previous experience dealing with you in earlier wipes left me with nothing but a good impression of you, so I'm doubting it's something you personally would intentionally do).
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Postby Kalthanan » Tue Jun 19, 2001 2:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kiloppile:
Hey Kalthanan... got a question about a situation that came up the other day, that I saw you were sorta involved in.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually that situation was a little more complicated than I would have liked. But in a nutshell, from what I remember during that extremely late night of mudding was that we had previous knowledge of the rare from a different source and the rare item happened to be something that was directly beneficial to me (which is not to say it wouldn't have been benefical to anyone else) so a quick decision was made and the plan was executed.

I can't speak for the group leader as to whether or not he did receive the tell before going to spank the mob, but like in the past, I have always tried to stay out of the politics arena (even in RL).

[This message has been edited by Kalthanan (edited 06-19-2001).]
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Postby Abue » Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:43 pm

People do not get along because there is no real concequences for there actions. Because people can hide behind there computer screens and say or do what they want with out nobody really knowing who they are. This is one reason. Another could be the lack of pkill makes it easier for someone to be annoying and twink out. If so and so is sitting there bitching and moaning about so and so getting an item he rightly should have gotten you have to sit there and listen. On a pkill mud you send him to his maker. This is certainly not always the case. A pkill mud has a whole lot of its own reasons to fight. Equipment just exchanges hands when they do. heeh.
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Postby Nokie » Tue Jun 19, 2001 5:48 pm

Oh this is a good discussion re the elite player thing!

I agree with Wargar about the core groups and 'elite players' thing.

I've been turned down so my times by a certain core group (*poke Saitcho*) that I've given up asking anymore. While it may well certainly be that they just don't like Nokie and don't want him along, it's also possible that they already have their core group of players and don't need anymore, or the group limit is reached.

For those that aren't in the core group for a given crew, it's really frustrating because it means that they are left out of a lot of interesting things.

This can lead to sometimes unwarranted feelings of resentment or preconceived notions about everyone involved with that crew. This can lead to people considering all members as stuck up or elitists.

I've even seen first hand on more than one occasion where a previously 'tight' group of people who were active together from level 1 to 30 suddenly splitting apart with one of two members hooking up with a crew and never doing anything with their old friends.

The old friends feel betrayed and understandably upset.

So I don't think the concept of a few core groups should be too large a problem but unfortunately I think for some classes, all of the available resources (lets say clerics) all belong to a certain crew, so everyone else not in a crew can't find a cleric and can't do much!

So we need more players :)

Of course, I could be completely wrong. One thing I've learned is that often times things aren't always as you initially think they are.

Nokie Quickfingers!
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Postby Eadgydd » Tue Jun 19, 2001 5:55 pm

Abue, Having pkill would not help people 'get along.' That is the same reasoning that starts wars. (I don't like your religion, philosophy, or what you say about my people, so I'll kill you.) What makes people bother to get along is not fear of being killed, but fear or meeting someone again and needing their help and being SOL.

I would contend that that dynamic exists on this MUD. You can't just 'hide behind your computer screen' when you have a character with a name someone will recognize when they run into you again... and trust me, if you screw them, they _will_ remember your name :P

Unlike 'RL' this MUD is a small community, and like it or not, if you lie, cheat or steal word will get out and you will find yourself without much help when you need it.

Sure, you can get around it by rolling another character if you've gotten a bad name, but that's a heavy price to pay if you've spent many RL days of your life building your character. So, if you want to have fun and get the help from others that you MUST have to do most things on this MUD, keep your name good, help others, and 'just get along.' THAT is how to become an 'elite' player on this MUD. Image Image
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Postby Saitcho » Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:44 pm

one of the hardest parts about being a group leader is telling people that they can't come. it is the nature of the mud that the more people you add to a gruop, the harder it is to manage that group. nokie, you have asked me several times to join and each time you asked, i already had two rogues (nitania and gorblie) in my group. keep in mind that group size is limited and 3 rogues in 1 group is a waste of a group slot. i dont turn you (or others) down because you arent "elite" or the "core" group, i do it because there simply is no room available when you ask. and yes, after a while, i group the same people over and over again. its hard to tell ANYone no, but its even harder to tell people no that you group with all the time. if i picked rogue A instead of rogue B then rogue B calls me elite bastard, if i pick rogue B then rogue A calls me elite bastard. there is no real way to win. i dont care if people think i'm elite, i'm not gonna group the entire mud, especially if i've never seen you before and heard nothing about you. sorry that it works that way, but there are plenty of other groups out there.

saitcho
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Postby Rymbie » Tue Jun 19, 2001 7:01 pm

I think one of the problems right now is that when you take away all the players who belong to the different core groups, there aren't many higher-level players left. Take Nokie's case, for instance. Let's say there are two large, elite groups already doing something and someone like Nokie (a rogue) gets left out. With most of the higher level tanks/healers/nukers taken, there isn't much left that he can do. Soloing mobs as a rogue at that level isn't very feasible, that's for sure. And if this person keeps getting left out of groups because this situation continues to arise, then it's understandable how hard feelings can get thrown into the mix.

I think in time, as the percentage of higher level players increases, the problem will solve itself. Sure, you'll have your core groups that do their thang (with some forming into formal guilds/associations) -- but there'll be more than enough non-committed, "vagabond" players left to group up and do whatever. Personally, I believe I fit into this category at the moment. Some of my good mud friends belong to different core groups, and I've never had any problems. I'm sure Nokie has friends that span across these groups also, so he'll be fine. Right, Quickfingers? Image

I guess what I'm trying to say is...as long as you have fun, play your character well, and adhere to good mud etiquette, you'll be fine. Heck, everyone knows how much halfling warriors sucked before Sojourn 3, and yet I still managed to squirm my way into groups -- without belonging to one core group or any of the others. Of course, I still wonder *why* I was invited to anything at all as a halfling warrior, but that's another story...hehe. Image

Rymbie Ruddycheeks, Private of the Beluirian Guard

[This message has been edited by Rymbie (edited 06-19-2001).]
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Postby Jegzed » Tue Jun 19, 2001 7:03 pm

"People are stupid. Given the proper incentitive people will believe what they want to be true or what they fear is true"

/Jegzed
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Postby Salenthelor » Tue Jun 19, 2001 9:26 pm

Nokie
Nah we aren't all taken by the same crew. We are all Anon (emote types who anon) Image
Hehe If you need a cleric I'm prolly around.
And I too fall in the Vagabond category most of the time.

But really, it all comes down to RL being played out on the mud. I wouldn't have come back if I didn't have RL friends on playing it. I would have little desire to. Because I've known them for years, I will drop nearly everything to go help them if they need it. We aren't grouped up all that often, but we are enough the common elf knows who they are. I know for a fact that has upset a couple of people along the way, but hey too bad. Just like if I'm grouped with a RL friend and you need me, we are a package deal, they go too or I don't.
Some people don't play for the same reason I do. I find it a little odd, but its not mine to ask why. I'm sure my play strikes others as a little off-center too.
People are always gonna be bothered by that which is different. It is human nature. I'd go into Dissonant Information theories, but you can just take the class.
Find the people you can deal with, group with them and if the rest flow in and out of you life so what; that's what you'd do in RL.
Better yet, recruit your RL friends and be their KING AND GOD. (tog megalo)

Just seeing it from the cheap seats.
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Postby Nitania » Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:49 pm

I would just like to add something about "elite" players.

There are 2 types of elite. The first type of elite player is called an "elitist" which means he/she does not group outside of his/her circle of friends. The second type of elite player is simply "elite" people who know what they are doing enough to be the difference in groups.. the kind of person you always want around because they know thier stuff and arent afraid to help you out when and if you ask. Usually the 2 types of "elite" players cannot be found in the same person, they are generally one or the other.

The first of these types of elite players are generally frowned upon by the general populus because they are generally egomaniacal and tend to be completely focused on what they can do/get only for themselves.

The second of these types of elite players are a VERY well thought-of group. People like Varia (I use Varia because she is the perfect example of what I am speaking of) who truly will go above and beyond what is generally expected of them, in not only helping others, but making sure they know they are welcome to help... all while maintaining a spotless image.

Mixing the 2 groups happens enough, and generally the 2 can get along as long as there is no qualms about who gets what vs. who needs what.

Nitania

wow, upon reading that I realized I used the word "generally" quite a bit! Image hmmm


[This message has been edited by Nitania (edited 06-19-2001).]
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Postby Saitcho » Wed Jun 20, 2001 12:34 am

Squadrons are fun and sometimes necessary, but there is a challenge to assembling a group that consists of what is needed, not overkill.

saitcho
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Postby Jurdex » Wed Jun 20, 2001 3:19 am

I find it comical that you brought this up, Nitania.

Bottom line:

Some people don't care about you. Your value is what you (the player) bring to them.

Other people actually develop strong bonds of friendship and develop a camraderie and will *do anything* or *give anything* to help those people. Their value is immeasurable, and all time spent with them is time well spent.

Stop and ask yourself why you group with so-and-so or why so-and-so groups you and I think you'll figure out which category you belong to.

Jurdex
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Postby Salenthelor » Wed Jun 20, 2001 4:26 am

Nicely said.
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Postby alvathair » Wed Jun 20, 2001 6:14 am

ok... am not sure where this reply is taking me..but i would like to say a few things on this issue as i have very mixed feelings about player interaction in this game. I've played here, in one incarnation or another ..almost from the beginning. During this time i have pretty much continually abstained from joining cliques, guilds or core groups etc. This proves difficult as some of u i'm sure know, because as u advance your friends innevitable will join such factions. Do i feel bitter about the fact that alot of them don't ask me to join them at times.. yes i do sometimes.. do i accept that alot of things can influence this ; my level, class, time zone etc. yes also. What it comes down to is that in many ways, even though it is JUST a game.. people take things personally here. I know i sure do at times. Whatever core group of friends i once had, have either become evils and done extremely well for themselves thusfar, or affiliated themseleves with particular leaders or groups of people. I don't hold this against them for the largest part, and i try not to flame folks who have found that this single-mindedness provides rewards in game. I know first hand that this is the case and have chosen this wipe to take a step back and just enjoy myself. Lastly i would just point out that the international year of tolerance has come and gone, i would hope that we all managed to take a little something on board from its passing.

thanks
locky
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Postby Nitania » Wed Jun 20, 2001 6:46 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jurdex:
<B>I find it comical that you brought this up, Nitania.

Bottom line:

Some people don't care about you. Your value is what you (the player) bring to them.

Other people actually develop strong bonds of friendship and develop a camraderie and will *do anything* or *give anything* to help those people. Their value is immeasurable, and all time spent with them is time well spent.

Stop and ask yourself why you group with so-and-so or why so-and-so groups you and I think you'll figure out which category you belong to.

Jurdex
Dornax</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why comical?

Nitania
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Postby Lyt » Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:07 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kalthanan:
<B> Actually that situation was a little more complicated than I would have liked. But in a nutshell, from what I remember during that extremely late night of mudding was that we had previous knowledge of the rare from a different source and the rare item happened to be something that was directly beneficial to me (which is not to say it wouldn't have been benefical to anyone else) so a quick decision was made and the plan was executed.

I can't speak for the group leader as to whether or not he did receive the tell before going to spank the mob, but like in the past, I have always tried to stay out of the politics arena (even in RL).

[This message has been edited by Kalthanan (edited 06-19-2001).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You expect us to believe this? To me it sounds like you are making excuses to try to cover up a guilty conscious for screwing another individual out of the boltie eyepatch which he found. But then again it was Folur (aka Thruar) leading your group, so I am not surprised that this happened at all. That is his modus operandi. Flame me if you want, and add me to your little "blacklist" of people not to group with. I care not. This type of behavior is nothing new from these type of individuals.

These are the lowest types of bottom feeding mudders there are. Someone finds a rare, and asks these people for help in getting it. They turn around and organize a different group, then ignore the original finder and kill it for themselves. Oh, you have to have the best equipment first. Heaven forbid that you aren't the spankiest quicker than everyone else. There have been leaders in the past who used to do this all the time, before they realized the error of their ways and changed. Now they are some of the nicest people around on the mud. But others will never change, and I am not expecting them to. Go ahead and flame me, because I am actually expecting it. I just get sick of hearing all the stories of people who are screwed over on the mud, and those doing the screwing are generally the same few people. You call it friendship and comradery, I call it mob mentality and the lack of a moral backbone. I am done with my rant now. So go ahead and flame me and tell everyone why I am a bad mudder and how I always screw people over. I try nothing other than to be fair with people on the mud. I just wish others could do the same.

Lyt -Slightly Irked-
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Postby thruar » Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:55 am

I felt like I'm being forced to post again after not posting for the last nearly 2 months now. I try to stay away from mud politics and just enjoy the game.

If everyone want to know the truth, I will tell you exactly what happen. Gorblie told Saerian that the stormload loaded. In turn Saerian told the group which I was leading. Saerian not knowing Gorblie was going to do the mob thinking that Gorblie told Saerian that it was just there. At the time it was like 4am in the morning eastern time there were pretty much no one on around that time during the weekdays. So I took the group and did it, Kalthanan has it now since he was only one in group that can use it.

Personally this whole topic is just to fuel the raging flame that's already out there and is really not necessary, if it's not about evils vs. goodies, its about another elite group vs the world. I think it's silly, not looking to make any trouble here. I don't post no more to keep a low profile. I just play the game to have fun. That's all I've got to say, beleive what you will. Eventually it's just a game, not looking to play this game forever, I apologize to anyone I offended.
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Postby Kalthanan » Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:58 am

*chuckle* During Soj2, I admin'd and assisted in dealing with situations like that, so please don't question my morals. I honestly think you should get both sides of the story before you start accusing people of things, Lyt.

[This message has been edited by Kalthanan (edited 06-20-2001).]
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Postby Kiloppile » Wed Jun 20, 2001 8:15 am

So I think the lesson to be learned here, flames aside, is that it's perilous to mention to people in elite groups that a rareload is in the game, if you have any intention of getting it yourself.

I don't really know what went on here, just from my perspective in the group that was forming to do it. I certainly don't know what the conversation between gorblie and saerian (sp?) was. Really the only people who can know that are those two individuals.

I begin to understand the topic of this thread.
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Postby Loryeth » Wed Jun 20, 2001 8:43 am

Hi

[This message has been edited by Loryeth (edited 06-20-2001).]
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Postby Saitcho » Wed Jun 20, 2001 1:46 pm

when you hear bad things about one specific group from many, many, MANY different people, morals are going to be questioned.

saitcho
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Postby Malacar » Wed Jun 20, 2001 2:04 pm

That totally begs the question of:

Where did all these people who are questioning the morals, based on this tale, get their stories from?

Both sides? Nope.

One side? Yes.

Opinions will -always- be colored when you only have one side of a given story.

I don't know what happened. I'm staying out of it. But persecuting someone or someones, based on past repurcussions(which is honestly where this sounds like it is coming from) or on one side of a story, is just wrong.


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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
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Postby cherzra » Wed Jun 20, 2001 2:38 pm

How dare you. I hereby demand that you act in accordance with line 5 paragraph 3 page 47 of the Sojourn Constitution, which states that all lightning bolt eyepatches loading become the immediate and sole possession of Cherzra. Duly hand over that which is rightfully mine and I will not be forced to take further action.


Cherzra.

p.s. will buy or trade for lightning bolt eyepatches

[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 06-20-2001).]
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Postby Ilshadrial » Wed Jun 20, 2001 4:43 pm

I have know Saerian aka Silverast for a long time, killing for the lightning bolt patch over another group is common old CS nature...I would have done the same thing had I continued on my "I must have the most power in the realm" persona. We have discussed it in many groups how to get rares over another group, just getting ready. It has happened millions of times, everyone knows this, i laugh in their faces if they deny it. I'll pull some old logged conversations and post them.

It is the elitism attitude that drives the hunger for rare eq or top eq... We all have it buried deep inside us Image That is why we play the game, to be the best you can be, and squash anyone who gets in your way.

Lets not kid ourselves...

Sorry Tovel you got jacked, next time you will know better than leak information about rares out...

Ilshad
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Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Wed Jun 20, 2001 5:26 pm

Good one, I like waking up in the mornings to be flamed by people. I can understand why Ilsh would want to flame me, I wronged her or something, but get your facts straight. I wasnt in CS, I was in Eye, then later joined RoT. Wanna know what happened from my POV? Here goes:

I scour GC alot, as does Gorblie, and we often traded info on what we found etc. Late that night, he sent me a tell that he found Stormlord, I shared that info with my group. I just thought he was reporting a rare he found, and had no idea he wanted to kill it until 5 minutes later. At that point everyone in the group was halfway there. No one on gsay heard when I said not to kill the mob, maybe I should have spammed more. I did not participate in the kill either, and you can ask Gorblie aka Tovel how bad I felt about it. He doesnt blame me for anything, and I have never screwed anyone over in this fashion before, so why should you all care?

And Ilsh, if you want to flame me for reasons "unknown" thats fine, but dont take it to the forums, have the courtesy of answering the email I sent you about 2 weeks ago instead of making half-assed accusations about stuff that happened when you werent there.

Sorry if this post was long, but I just woke up, and never had to defend a flame on the forum before. Feel free to flame some more though if you feel Im lying though, because Im not.
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Postby Gormal » Wed Jun 20, 2001 6:24 pm

If you are going to flame Edwussling, then flame him for something worthwhile!

Silverast:You are a fat wussy with a dirty lip you elitist piece of equipment hoarding trash! You are also annoyingly sexually confused with those rampant love letters you spam my mailbox with! I hope you die!

Very weak dealing to flame someone who you called a friend like a couple weeks ago Ilshad Image Should be able to move past flaming on the BBS, this is not....that other MUD...yeah.

3nj0y because I am l33t and you are not Image
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:37 pm

The reason that nobody gets along on Sojourn is because everyone has their own moral agenda which they adhere to and defend. And no two people have the same set of values.

I will give examples.

Rogue X is making his way to Calimport to quest some stuff and runs across Chlora in the Tethir forest. He tells a few high levels that it's there. There aren't any goodie warriors online and thus they have no chance to kill the dragon. Warrior Q says over IM that he'll be on in 10 minutes or so. One of the people Rogue X tells about the dragon switches to his evil, organizes an evil group, and kills the dragon while Rogue X watches.

To whom did the dragon belong? Who should have gotten the scale? Was it moral for Player Y to switch to his evil to kill the dragon, after deciding that there weren't enough goodies online to do it at all?


After a relatively short and uneventful Jot trip led by Warrior Q, the group returns to 3w to split up the gear. Lo and behold, when the bid ends, Warrior Q is the only bidder on the taut gloves. He says he doesn't really need them, but couldn't resist a free win. He intends to trade them for a gythka. There are several mages in the party who could use the gloves.

Is Warrior Q justified in his bid? Should he have chosen his bid differently? Is it moral for a group leader to bid on an unclaimed item he can't use? Should he hand his old weapon down to someone else when he gets the gythka?


Ranger Z decides it's time for him to get a windsong. He leads a group through Brass, then claims the scepter when the group sits down to split.

Is the group leader entitled to claim quest items? Is it ok for someone to lay claim to an item after the zone is done? At all?


Warrior G leads experience for 3 hours, and "forgets" to split cash at the end.

Is a group leader entitled to keep the cash?

Answer these questions, and I'll tell you why we can't just get along. All of these and more have caused massive arguments in groups I've been in.

- Ragorn
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Postby Nitania » Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:48 pm

All of this info is great. I'd like to hear about why ppl cant get along with others from the opposite side of the race war. Anyone have any oppinions?

Nitania
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Postby cherzra » Wed Jun 20, 2001 8:09 pm

I got no problem with goodies, I'll sell anyone who can pay anything! Only thing that irritates me is when locate object shows

a lightning bolt eyepatch in some sort of container
a lightning bolt eyepatch in some sort of container
a lightning bolt eyepatch in some sort of container
a lightning bolt eyepatch in some sort of container
a lightning bolt eyepatch in some sort of container
a lightning bolt eyepatch in some sort of container

and nobody will trade one even for KICKASS seers eq, they just sit in containers for a year.
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Postby Todrael » Wed Jun 20, 2001 8:16 pm

So many posts, so much to say Image

1) GC Rares.. just yesterday I was in a group doing exp on Spirit Raven. Saitcho and another group were also there, doing the same exp. Saitcho sends a tell to Cherzra saying the faerie dragon loaded, but they just wanted to do exp, in case our group would like to do it. Most of us laughed and just kept on killing. After the group disbanded, one of our members ran up to GC and killed the faerie dragon there, and sports a new shiny pair of wings. Sharing info on rares isn't always a point of contention, even across racewar lines.

2) I have encountered something I didn't like in a group I was in several times, such as someone keeping the 1k+ cash we had earned, or the absolute best item from the loot split just because he was the group holder, etc. In the first case, I learned it was because that person was saving the cash for a Guild that I would most likely have the possibility of entering, and in the second case we went and got 5 more of that item to divide amongst all who needed it. I've handed out a rather large amount of equipment, and been given several nice items as well, in a group.

3) I just find it horribly amusing that the title of this thread is exactly what isn't happening -in- the thread.

-Todrael
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Postby Rymbie » Wed Jun 20, 2001 8:28 pm

Nitania, you're right -- you *were* opening a huge can of worms when you started this topic...heh. Image

This is really sad though. It sucks when you see two old skool, very learned Sojourn players go at it over what seems to be a big misunderstanding.

Rymbie sniffs sadly to himself.


Rymbie/Shyarn

[This message has been edited by Rymbie (edited 06-20-2001).]
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Postby Jorta » Wed Jun 20, 2001 9:57 pm

I used to be really stressed out with equipment and loads and finding more equipment when I played Jorta as a two wipes ago. I guess I didn't understand what _I_ really liked about the game: the people I met.

After one especially bad root spank that took all night CR'ing from (not -THE- root spank that will go down in legends, just another bad one) I was pretty stressed out. So I walked over to the duck pond and did remove all;drop all in succession until nothing was left.

Then I was a 46 monk walking around with a robe on and I felt great. One week later, other than the rare loads, you could not tell the difference in my eq, hit or dam. What an eye opener for me!

So now I don't stress, enjoy the game, try to meet people, try to be nice all the time and forget about those people who don't reciprocate. I find plenty of people who do like to get along and generally enjoy the experience. They have their reason to play the game which is one way, and I play another. No big whoop. Both work fine.

Some day I'm sure I'll come home from work like days in the past. Spend some time with the kids and the wife. Talk about the day and the plans for the weekend. When the kids are in bed and the house is quiet I'll try to log onto Sojourn III and it will be gone again. I suppose when that day comes I won't regret the loss of equipment that I had, I'll miss and try to keep in touch with the friends that I had made during that time. They may be RL friends or MUD friends, but we had made a connection.

Here's one example of the new Jorta: just the other day I found a lighting bolt eyepatch lying on the ground out in the wilderness. After several hours of looking for either the owner or someone who at least _wanted_ the damn thing I decided that it was damaging my karma to carry around so I duckponded it too.

Jorta
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Postby izarek » Wed Jun 20, 2001 10:39 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jorta:
<B>
Here's one example of the new Jorta: just the other day I found a lighting bolt eyepatch lying on the ground out in the wilderness. After several hours of looking for either the owner or someone who at least _wanted_ the damn thing I decided that it was damaging my karma to carry around so I duckponded it too.

Jorta</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! Poor Cherzra! BTW great attitude Jorta. Kudos!

Izzy
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Postby Guest » Thu Jun 21, 2001 3:22 am

Just fyi, there's not that many lightning eyepatches in the game. Remember those level 20/30/40 equip bags we made for Alpha? Well, some of the gods still have them. Image That's most of the high level equip you're see in containers.
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Jun 21, 2001 3:26 am

I do miss the Wanderlust attitude toward equipment. None of us really owned anything.. it was guild property. When you look at it like that, it's much easier to get everyone equipped well. It doesn't MATTER if you win the bid on the amey ring or Guildmate R wins it, all it means is that Kildran is gonna have to cast one less ress at the end of the next combat.

- Ragorn
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Postby Kaeldar » Thu Jun 21, 2001 3:27 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mask:
Just fyi, there's not that many lightning eyepatches in the game. Remember those level 20/30/40 equip bags we made for Alpha? Well, some of the gods still have them. Image That's most of the high level equip you're see in containers.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I located more than one iceberry in a container today, I doubt those are in the equip bags :P

Kaeldar Kalaze
Bitter Magi


------------------
What did you expect?
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Postby Nilan » Thu Jun 21, 2001 3:41 am

No comment

I've lived it, its unfortunate


Nilan
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Postby cherzra » Thu Jun 21, 2001 7:49 am

Nods Mask there's only 2 now, my comment was based on the end of S2 when there were over a dozen.
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Postby Rymbie » Thu Jun 21, 2001 12:22 pm

Amen, Rags!! Image

And I gotta admit, it sure was fun being the guild's merchant extraordinaire and selling off our items, RP/auction style. Image

Rymbie, the halfling who quit Soj before he could ever get his Wanderlust title. :P



[This message has been edited by Rymbie (edited 06-21-2001).]
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Jun 21, 2001 12:26 pm

Woops, sorry. I didn't realize you meant at the end of Soj2.

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