Quests and Quest Spoils

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vynigumba
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Quests and Quest Spoils

Postby vynigumba » Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:38 pm

What always bothered me is the fact that a lot (almost all the good ones) of quests require groups.. sometimes (most) big groups. It seems that this mud requires a group even to sneeze.

I read another tread on how people spoil quest and so on.. Now, I think it would be a much better idea to have a certain number of a ONE MAN QUESTS. they may be longer or more difficult, but they would not require a group to complete.

The average player, I am sure, will be less tempted to give out information about those quests than the quest that requires big groups and everyone in the group knows...

Now , I know some of those 1 man quests myself, but the reward for completing them is always rediculous, at most a mid level piece of equip and most involes hours of travelling around and days trying to catch that rare.

What bothers me even more is that quests for spell/skill/lich/or whatever. Requires group. to my point of view this is a joke. As soon as somebody gets resurrect/inferno or whatever spell would be then about 30 people know how to get it. then for newcomers the quest becomes just routine. (i.e. wasting time looking for the rare pops...)

Would not it be nice that those fancy spells would privileges of people that just worked hard to figure it out?

and would not be nice if some very good equipment could be quest without a group, making the reward much more unique?

Just a thought..
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:52 pm

I like it. I just got my head bashed in by almost everyone in a 15 man group because I objected to a large part of a hard quest being pretty much told to everyone. Thanks to all those people for being so kind. I remember just a week ago when I wanted to help Mezzellixxissizz with ultrablast and some of those same people told me to screw off, because 'everyone should learn it on their own'. Funny how they have 2 standards, depending on whether it directly benefits them or they actually have to help someone else.

Cherzra

[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 09-05-2001).]
Narkal
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Postby Narkal » Wed Sep 05, 2001 3:18 pm

Is not asking other people for advice and leads part of the process of learning on your own? I admit that if someone wants to know the entire quest that is a bit much, but if they want to know where to find the mob that first gives out the quest, or maybe where to find a really hard to get piece of the quest, would that not be learning?
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Postby Todrael » Wed Sep 05, 2001 3:40 pm

I think a large part of the problem with big quests is that people would never give you the item unless/until you tell them what it's for. Some of the items for lich are prime warrior gear, things that every single warrior would want and would always get over a mage. I have to say that I need it for lich in order to get it, but then everyone knows at least that item required.

Then of course are the high level rares that require a full zone group to kill. You have to tell everyone in the group why you're doing it to get them to come that far out of the way, and only for one mob with eq that no one really wants, and will kill some of them. Another part of the quest revealed.

Quest knowledge is impossible to keep secret really. You can only hide the details, such as where the quest mob is, who to hand the items to, etc. Solo quests with adequate rewards would certainly be nice. But this isn't a solo mud.

-Todrael
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Wed Sep 05, 2001 3:55 pm

I believe in the concept of answering questions. If anyone in my groups asks WHY we are killing a mob, or what his eq is for, then I'll say. I might answer just "quest" Image

After dragging a group to demi every single day for three weeks time, several times without getting any eq for anyone else, I kind of think they DESERVE to know WHY we were there.


/Jegzed
Tanras
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Postby Tanras » Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:01 pm

Todrael,

yes and no, the lich quest has components that everyone knows. It also has components that very few people know. For someone new to the quest, the easy parts are the "hard" parts you just described so maybe that is not the example you should be using. That quest is not difficult to keep secret if one desires it to be that way.

Tanras
sok
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Postby sok » Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:12 pm

tanras, how would u know. i dont see u having an evil lich this wipe. i think u making it up. if u want to prove me wrong make a evil lich/necro than i will admit u know what you talking about.
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Postby Tovar » Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:15 pm

Uhmm...Sok, Tanras was the first person to attain lich as I recall (on soj.2). I'd say he probably has a good idea of what the quest constitutes.
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Postby Zrax » Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:17 pm

Aparantly sarcasm and humor are lost on Tovar
Tovar
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Postby Tovar » Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:30 pm

Perhaps...it just doesn't seem like sarcasm or humor...it seems rather inflammatory. Then again, the French revere Jerry Lewis as a comedic God...I don't get that either...doesn't mean I don't have a sense of humor Zrax. Image
Zrax
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Postby Zrax » Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:41 pm

Sok knows tanras was superlich, he is just trying to taunt him off everquest and back on sojourn. Jerry lewis is kinda lame Image
vynigumba
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Postby vynigumba » Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:07 pm

Back on track please...

Would you like to see more one mam quests?
and do you think those will solve the spoil quest problem?
Faedril
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Postby Faedril » Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:17 pm

The problem I run into in quests is the ones that it would practically take the zone creator to show someone the quest to be able to do it. The files need to be made such that the riddles are able to be figured out by interaction with the mob and not with major intuitive leaps. There also needs to be indication of if the components are in the zone or not. Well designed quests are challenging but not impossible. Poorly designed ones can only be figured out by the zone creators. IE, some of the Drulak and Elder Forest quests have never been completed, and its not for lack of trying. Another idea would be for quests to be limited in such a way that a character can only complete them as many times as they have slots to wear the equipment. IE. stop all these people from figuring out a quest then camping it for eq to trade or sell. That doesn't promote other people trying to learn it because once it is first figured out the only way for a second person to figure it out is if the camper isn't there or if the camper told them. Lastly as to sharing quest info: its user discretion. If you went and helped character A do all of the components, character A should at least tell you why. If its someone who really wants the piece of eq, what harm is there in giving them an idea of where to start looking for the quest mob. IE. Say something like I would suggest wandering Elder Forest or visit the port where Pirates hide. It doesn't give anything away other than a starting zone and it isn't rude. 60% of the fun is figuring out the quest. 40% is wearing your new toy.
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Postby Zrax » Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:39 pm

one man quests are fine but i think the better quests for better items should always require a group, this mud is geared toward mutiplayer cooperation and should stay that way. I dont think this will solve the problem of quest sharing in the slightest either.
Corth
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Postby Corth » Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:50 pm

screw quests

If anything can be gotten by one person, it better not be any good because it will eventually be twinked..

as far as quests that need groups, everyone eventually finds out what the quest is anyway..

so the area gods try and outdo themselves making the longest and most pain in the ass quests they can. So that only people with nothing better to do but comb every one of the thousands of rooms on this mud find that silly hidden item.

The only quest i endorse is the obvious one. You ask the mob "hi" and he says "I'm looking for an amethyst ring, an eldritch ring, and a spider ring." If you actually complete that quest, you've accomplished something because you've managed to complete three somewhat difficult areas.

Corth
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Postby Mplor » Wed Sep 05, 2001 8:57 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by vynigumba:
<B> As soon as somebody gets resurrect/inferno or whatever spell would be then about 30 people know how to get it.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Baloney. Alaindril and I completed the first Inferno at the same time (practically). We both agreed to preserve the integrity of the quest. Months later people were asking us how to do the quest still. We didnt tell.
I guess ppl who figured it out after us may have spoiled it, but at least it can be done.

Aktosh was the first and only Lich for months. It can be done, if people have the courage.
Dinggle
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Postby Dinggle » Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:33 pm

the playerbase is greedy, even moreso than in any previous incarnation of the mud that i've been on.

what you are proposing will not solve the problem, because people will still be greedy.
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Postby Ensis » Fri Sep 07, 2001 12:27 pm

I like the idea of one man quests in terms of class specific type stuff. I mean, the class IS designed around grouping, but I think what people want to see is something a little different than the typical (get good group), (kill big mob), (get item from said mob), (rinse repeat), (combine all items to complete quest). Is it possible to create a quest that a group would not benefit at all?

I think I hit on this in another post but I'm not sure i actually sent it or deleted it. But class specific quests, not necessarily for item spell status or whatnot, but a quest that requires the class to use all, if not some of the more obscure skills/spells that never really get used.

I don't think people necessarily dislike the current system, but would like to see more variety instead of the constant emphasis on the group-kill-loot standard.

ie: maybe halfway through the fight the mob wants to talk it out, or a mob that if you say rude things to it he lays the smackdown, or if you ask him politely about things he'll help you out. I really liked the idea of using racial languages as keywords to get into zones, do certain quests, etc.. i think that puts a cool twist on things and could be motivation to practice languages.
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Postby Lnarb » Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:59 pm

A cool one man quest would be a quest for exp. Not tons and tons of exp, but some. Equipment isn't the only thing people want. I know of one quest in the game that is fairly easy and the reward is a small amount of exp (at least that's the message that you get). Quests of this nature would be very popular and thus could be tweaked unless done very well. But I think that they could be enjoyed by one and all... hard stuff for larger amounts of exp and easy stuff to lowbie exp.
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Sun Sep 09, 2001 5:59 am

Quests designed for one person that involve killing mobs will quickly be done by groups of five.

Quests designed for one person that require solving riddles will either be done every boot by the same person, or the keywords will be spread across the mud like wildfire.

Quests designed for one person that involve rares will be camped by alts, just like everything else.


The only quest I know of that's obtainable by one person and not overly twinked is the glittering golden mask. And only then because it requires an insane amount of running around, a fair knowledge of some out of the way places, and a lot of times dumb luck.

And even THAT got done one boot out of three.

- Ragorn
Corth
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Postby Corth » Sun Sep 09, 2001 1:20 pm

And Ragorn is the expert.

as I said before, screw quests Image

Corth
izarek
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Postby izarek » Mon Sep 10, 2001 1:35 am

Quests that require a big group, usually to do multiple fights, for one item or spell are bad imho. All it shows nowadays is that so-and-so has the right connections to assemble a group of ppl willing to spend their time helping the person out.

Personally, if I can spare the time, I'm always happy to help out someone questing. Unfortunately, i've had alot of difficulty getting such help in return (not necessarily by the same people). So, those of us who arent in the 'in' crowd get screwed with these kinds of quests. You can't blame them, however, since they're spending X amount of time working on getting you one item.

So, what can be done? I think quests need to be changed so they reflect the skill/mind/prowress of the player. Yeah, a fight doable by a single player can be twinked easily by a group. Why not limit the fight so that its only doable by one person. The shaman spirit quest is an excellent example of this.

Izzy
Kuurg
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Postby Kuurg » Mon Sep 10, 2001 4:59 am

Here's a possible solution for quest twinking. mud tracks your last n number of quests completed, and won't allow you to complete a given quest again until it's no longer on the tracking list.



------------------
·Kuurg·
Gort
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Postby Gort » Mon Sep 10, 2001 9:56 pm

Funny, I read the posts most every day, and I gotta say something like 90% of the comments are complaints. I've been playing this mud since 95, and have not until recently gotten into quests much. I didn't care one way or the other before, but if you like them, do them, if you don't... only do the ones you "need to" for gheal or whatever. My point is, different players like different things, it serves no constructive purpose to complain, just try to enjoy the GAME and live and let live. If you have something constructive (read as not a complaint) to say, say it so it can be useful.

Gort *kicks his soapbox aside for now*
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Mon Sep 10, 2001 10:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gort:
<B>Funny, I read the posts most every day, and I gotta say something like 90% of the comments are complaints. I've been playing this mud since 95, and have not until recently gotten into quests much. I didn't care one way or the other before, but if you like them, do them, if you don't... only do the ones you "need to" for gheal or whatever. My point is, different players like different things, it serves no constructive purpose to complain, just try to enjoy the GAME and live and let live. If you have something constructive (read as not a complaint) to say, say it so it can be useful.

Gort *kicks his soapbox aside for now*</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh... good point Gort, but people don't generally go out of their way to praise, only to condemn. Call it a sign of the times if you will.

Btw, I remember the first boot I was on sojourn I had *no idea* how any quest was done whatsoever. It was only after I saw a friend ask a mob questions that I realized that that was how mobs interacted with PCs. Perhaps the "help quest" should be made even more obscure?

Oh, and a funny side note - Yayaril recently told me I used to drop him hints about the quest for some poison, like "what do you know so far? Hm, have you looked for a mob of that sort? Think about what zone it might load in. Try talking to them and see what happens." I recall having the conversation but, since druids never use poison, never ran the quest beyond the first time. Now, years later, he knows the quest well and I have forgotten the whole thing! He thanked me for dropping him a couple of hints without spoiling the whole thing. Funny how things work out.

Friendly neighborhood barker and quest forgetter,

Mori
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Mon Sep 10, 2001 10:49 pm

PS - I have a useful idea!

Sort of. Well, I've noticed a mass influx of lowbie eq into the WD shops. People in need of cash pick up items (I've seen many a level 40 whacking the helpless level 20ish mobs) and sell them for 5 gold or so. Second, I've noticed that quests are only twinkable due to their set nature.

Is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?

Why not code quests to occasionally include a bit of a random surprise at the end? You hand A, B and C to the mob. The mob says, "Oh, and one other thing..." Group then has until mud crashes/reboots to find that one other (trivial) item and run it down to the mob. It could add a sense of dynamism and force people to switch things up a bit on occasion - as well as rewarding people who collect neat looking and stat-useless junk.

(Note: I do NOT advocate adding this on a hard quest, such as polar boots or a spell quest; merely for a few midlevel quests. The item could be a small random one like "a magical torch", or not be required at all. This measure would merely prevent one group from going around and saying "OK, now we run this, BAM, and now we'll do this, BAM, and then this third quest here," and taking a bunch of quest eq after boot.)

Basically, this ensures that only people who badly want the quest stuff will do it, because it will involve a lot of boring running around. It also prevents one group from flying through and doing a bunch of quests.

Whaddya think? *hides behind a tree for cover*
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Postby Mishre » Tue Sep 11, 2001 9:57 am

Hmm i like the idea of randomness.. but i think even more randomness might be amusing Image such as, what if on this boot this guy didn't want or need anything this time? :P heh might annoy some ppl... or perhaps he wants completely different items.. etc.. make it quite different every time so it can never really be twinked and always have to be solved.. well im still a lowbie yet so im not sure how much of an impact something like that might generate.. but if you guys are worried about solo quests getting twinked that is one way to stop it.. but might be a good idea if they did some of those things on all quests if everything is getting over done...

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