Associations got me thinking about cash sinks and sojuorn. I doubt associations dues are meant to be cash sinks, but they are to some point. Anyone got ideas for cash sinks for sojourn? Heres my ideas:
Have quests mobs start require plat, lots of plat, especially on high end quests. Either straight up cash or maybe items you can buy from vendors that are expensive (tinker bag).
Expand the banking system to include interest bearing loans. Gotta think of a way to keep this from being abused by creating chars then taking out loans and deleting them.
Create a real shop system where the mud is buying low and selling high instead of the players. This system would have to be static and not reset after crashes for long term effectiveness. EQ should be worth selling, but its not because the plat you get from the store is not inline with the equipments value.
Create a lottery. Items, platinum
Make food more expensive. better yet make higher level players eat more or pay more for food. Get rid of non spell free food.
resses and or portals cost plat.
spells cost plat (i hate this idea)
weapons need repairing (i hate this one too)
Have association specific things that cost money like building guild halls, association vaults for money and eq that cost money to expand and guard, insurance.
Player houses
Require players to visit guild masters before leveling, have it cost significant amounts of platinum to level and the initial practice in skills (including spells) could also be very expensive.
The best idea is probably anything that is a voluntary cash sink.
The next best idea is having high end quests cost a lot of platinum. The higher level players typically have the most cash and the largest capacity for creating cash (by zoning and slaying).
The third best suggestion is probably have it cost a lot to level. This keeps chars poor as they level sinking cash every level. Maybe tweak the cost to level to be higher for chars with less play time (twinks). Folks who spend a long time at each level (newbies) would end up being relatively cash rich and be able to buy better eq.
anyone else got ideas for cash sinks?
Cash sinks
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Grungar
- Sojourner
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Become a rogue. Poisons, disguise kits, and somewhere I remember reading about people having to pay 400 p or something to practice assassinate.
- Grungar "Huh?" Forgefire
edit: I never really know what I'm talking about, in case you haven't figured it out by now
[This message has been edited by Grungar (edited 10-18-2001).]
- Grungar "Huh?" Forgefire
edit: I never really know what I'm talking about, in case you haven't figured it out by now
[This message has been edited by Grungar (edited 10-18-2001).]
Against 'em...I know I'm not in the minority here by stating that I don't suffer from an over abundance of hard coin. I also think it would impede new players, true noobs and the like. If you need to dump some coin to make the game seem more challenging you can always duckpond it or give it to me...give me a tell if you feel compelled to lighten your purse. :P
My personal opinion,
I'm not in favor of any of that, I don't have that kind of cash, and doubt I will anytime soon.
If you were to do any of it, make it the "voluntary, or optional" things like guilds, or other non integral parts of the game.
To require it for food, spells, item repair and the like is IMHO gonna make it unnecessarily hard for noobs, and a pain for most of the rest of us.
This goes to my point on another thread that if people think the game's too easy, find your own ways to make it more challenging, there are many existing players who are fine w/ it as is, and any prospective noobs would find it even more daunting.
Just my 2 coppers worth.
Toplack
I'm not in favor of any of that, I don't have that kind of cash, and doubt I will anytime soon.
If you were to do any of it, make it the "voluntary, or optional" things like guilds, or other non integral parts of the game.
To require it for food, spells, item repair and the like is IMHO gonna make it unnecessarily hard for noobs, and a pain for most of the rest of us.
This goes to my point on another thread that if people think the game's too easy, find your own ways to make it more challenging, there are many existing players who are fine w/ it as is, and any prospective noobs would find it even more daunting.
Just my 2 coppers worth.
Toplack
When I hit 40 I got my buffer plus extra and practiced assassinate, it wiped out my bank account at around 400 p. Three deaths in a row after that and I finally sold the first (and only) piece of eq I've ever sold in the game just so I could practice it again. Some people lead groups and keep all the coin from them, and never have a problem with their accounts running dry. Some people sell eq and never have problems, some people roll warriors, solo for the first 30 levels and never have problems.
As a rogue, you'd think I could make a decent living, but I've never been attracted to the ways people have to do that on this game. I didn't want to clear EM out of the little items to sell them, there were other people who might have needed them. I don't want to sell off the stuff I don't use anymore at inflated prices, I give away the lower end stuff to little 'uns, the better pieces I give to my friends and companions to fill slots they might need to improve.
So because I choose play a less mercenary style, I should be penalized even more than I am now by not being able to participate in many quests? There are already quests that require a great deal of coin, and I want to be able to do them, so I try to set aside what I can with those in mind. Were other high level quests altered to become 'cash sinks,' I would have to completely alter the way I play, in essence becoming a completely different person than my character is now. I just don't see that as fun. Fun = "You're still in newbie armor? I think I might have something in my bag..." Not Fun = "You're still in newbie armor? I have something better by 2 AC... how much cash do you have in your bank account?"
I'm always tempted to sell things, there's a lot I'd like to do, but I don't have the coin it takes to do it. I'm not complaining about that, however, if I happen to make it down the line, I will, if I don't, I don't. When I get a really, really nice item that I don't need, I might sell or trade it if there's nobody I know who can use it.
Just because there are some on the mud who have an abundance of coin does not mean that everybody does. Don't penalize people just because you managed to get what you consider to be "too much." There will always be "haves" and "have-nots." I might be a member of the latter group, but I can tell you this, I'm still having fun, still enjoying the mud, still enjoying the people I hang around with, still happy to meet new players. Hmmmmm....
As a rogue, you'd think I could make a decent living, but I've never been attracted to the ways people have to do that on this game. I didn't want to clear EM out of the little items to sell them, there were other people who might have needed them. I don't want to sell off the stuff I don't use anymore at inflated prices, I give away the lower end stuff to little 'uns, the better pieces I give to my friends and companions to fill slots they might need to improve.
So because I choose play a less mercenary style, I should be penalized even more than I am now by not being able to participate in many quests? There are already quests that require a great deal of coin, and I want to be able to do them, so I try to set aside what I can with those in mind. Were other high level quests altered to become 'cash sinks,' I would have to completely alter the way I play, in essence becoming a completely different person than my character is now. I just don't see that as fun. Fun = "You're still in newbie armor? I think I might have something in my bag..." Not Fun = "You're still in newbie armor? I have something better by 2 AC... how much cash do you have in your bank account?"
I'm always tempted to sell things, there's a lot I'd like to do, but I don't have the coin it takes to do it. I'm not complaining about that, however, if I happen to make it down the line, I will, if I don't, I don't. When I get a really, really nice item that I don't need, I might sell or trade it if there's nobody I know who can use it.
Just because there are some on the mud who have an abundance of coin does not mean that everybody does. Don't penalize people just because you managed to get what you consider to be "too much." There will always be "haves" and "have-nots." I might be a member of the latter group, but I can tell you this, I'm still having fun, still enjoying the mud, still enjoying the people I hang around with, still happy to meet new players. Hmmmmm....
Yeah, I hate the idea of having to visit/pay the guildmaster to level.
One of the best things about the sojourn xp/skill system is being able to level up and aquire the money to practice skills at a later time.
I think shops having better and expensive potions would be cool.
Guilds I can see as a huge cash sink, especially if your guild wants a nice hall and stuff.
One of the best things about the sojourn xp/skill system is being able to level up and aquire the money to practice skills at a later time.
I think shops having better and expensive potions would be cool.
Guilds I can see as a huge cash sink, especially if your guild wants a nice hall and stuff.
Time to chime in with my "playing a rogue is expensive" experience.
Yes.. the big one was paying 400 of my 450 plat to practice rescue. I had to go around stealing coins from mobs in DK just so I could have some more money to buy poisons, which are used up quite quickly since stuff like slow works so rarely on any mob over level 40..
And I haven't even purchased any garroting wires or disguise kits.. The kits are just too expensive for the amount of money I have. I'm not saying they're too expensive for their usefulness (dont know since i've never had one).. just too expensive when the most plat you've had is 500.. you've had that much twice (over 200 of which was found) and most of it was eaten up practicing skills..
I've never bought eq.. the most expensive thing I've bougt was a poison.. It just takes a lot of cash to play a rogue.. (maybe there could be rogue-only quests where you go and assassinate a mob to get money!)
So yeah.. play a rogue..
Thank god I play my rogue as an outsider.. ie not joining guilds.. cuz I sure as hell wouldn't have enough plat to pay for dues even.
Laxlez steals coins from a bigass mob (raising his total to 100 plat!)
Yes.. the big one was paying 400 of my 450 plat to practice rescue. I had to go around stealing coins from mobs in DK just so I could have some more money to buy poisons, which are used up quite quickly since stuff like slow works so rarely on any mob over level 40..
And I haven't even purchased any garroting wires or disguise kits.. The kits are just too expensive for the amount of money I have. I'm not saying they're too expensive for their usefulness (dont know since i've never had one).. just too expensive when the most plat you've had is 500.. you've had that much twice (over 200 of which was found) and most of it was eaten up practicing skills..
I've never bought eq.. the most expensive thing I've bougt was a poison.. It just takes a lot of cash to play a rogue.. (maybe there could be rogue-only quests where you go and assassinate a mob to get money!)
So yeah.. play a rogue..
Thank god I play my rogue as an outsider.. ie not joining guilds.. cuz I sure as hell wouldn't have enough plat to pay for dues even.Laxlez steals coins from a bigass mob (raising his total to 100 plat!)
Being a rogue wasn't nearly as expensive for me as being an enchanter. When I hit 21st, I HAD to have somebody help me out with the cost of the spells, since there wasn't anybody who could teach me at the time. If you can scribe your spells from somebody else, it's great, if not, the cost is ungodly.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
Being a rogue wasn't nearly as expensive for me as being an enchanter. When I hit 21st, I HAD to have somebody help me out with the cost of the spells, since there wasn't anybody who could teach me at the time. If you can scribe your spells from somebody else, it's great, if not, the cost is ungodly.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I spend *many* hours sitting at 3w, and I *love* to teach spells. So any little enchanters who need to learn spells, see me
As far as the cash sink thing goes, I'm all for *voluntary* cash sinks - houses, associations, etc. Quests are more an integral part of the game. I had to borrow almost 3k p to buy a tinker bag to *use*, buying one for a quest would not be happening.
I'd love to see viable trade skills and player run shops on Sojourn, but I don't think it's really "doable" without restructuring the whole game.
Is an abundance of cash really a problem for the *average* player?
Being a rogue wasn't nearly as expensive for me as being an enchanter. When I hit 21st, I HAD to have somebody help me out with the cost of the spells, since there wasn't anybody who could teach me at the time. If you can scribe your spells from somebody else, it's great, if not, the cost is ungodly.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I spend *many* hours sitting at 3w, and I *love* to teach spells. So any little enchanters who need to learn spells, see me
As far as the cash sink thing goes, I'm all for *voluntary* cash sinks - houses, associations, etc. Quests are more an integral part of the game. I had to borrow almost 3k p to buy a tinker bag to *use*, buying one for a quest would not be happening.
I'd love to see viable trade skills and player run shops on Sojourn, but I don't think it's really "doable" without restructuring the whole game.
Is an abundance of cash really a problem for the *average* player?
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kiryan
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It'd be cool and necessary to get statistics on how much total coinage is in player hands on a monthly and a daily basis. Then we could get an idea of how much coin sinkage we need or don't need based on amount of coinage coming into the game on a daily or monthly basis. I remember days when folks were saying they had 500k plat, i doubt they were lieing.
Where we should try to head with this is to a world where new players could conceivably save up enough plat to buy equipment. Buying equipment should be a viable but not equal alternative to zoning. That way new low level players can acquire equipment to improve their characters in low and mid levels without having to wait till they are zoning level to get it.
It may not be a problem atm, but in a year or 2 years from now, it might cost you 10k for a tiny golden earring. The baseline might be that 10 hours of saving up coins via trade or something could net you the same as zoning for an hour at a level 10 greater than yours. There should be multiple ways of being upwardly mobile. Currently new players must do exp with mediocre eq till they are high enough to zone or hope for handouts. I don't think thats friendly. Consider if prices were to escalate to a point where a TG commanded 10k, a new player wouldnt be able to acquire one without zoning, or zoning and selling the eq they got to buy one. If TG was worht around 500 plat, a level 20 player would have no problem saving up to buy 2; it would just take time in the form of selling crap you get off mobs, trade, picking up coins others dont bother to loot, teaching spells to lower level players at discounted prices. He would never be able to save enough to buy 1 at 10k.
Conecptually, since upper level players are the most capable, platinum needs to funnel upwards and be sunk at their level. probably, the best way to sink it is in high end quests like erlan, windsong, ect... or things like houses, associations, restrung items, training, ect...
Where we should try to head with this is to a world where new players could conceivably save up enough plat to buy equipment. Buying equipment should be a viable but not equal alternative to zoning. That way new low level players can acquire equipment to improve their characters in low and mid levels without having to wait till they are zoning level to get it.
It may not be a problem atm, but in a year or 2 years from now, it might cost you 10k for a tiny golden earring. The baseline might be that 10 hours of saving up coins via trade or something could net you the same as zoning for an hour at a level 10 greater than yours. There should be multiple ways of being upwardly mobile. Currently new players must do exp with mediocre eq till they are high enough to zone or hope for handouts. I don't think thats friendly. Consider if prices were to escalate to a point where a TG commanded 10k, a new player wouldnt be able to acquire one without zoning, or zoning and selling the eq they got to buy one. If TG was worht around 500 plat, a level 20 player would have no problem saving up to buy 2; it would just take time in the form of selling crap you get off mobs, trade, picking up coins others dont bother to loot, teaching spells to lower level players at discounted prices. He would never be able to save enough to buy 1 at 10k.
Conecptually, since upper level players are the most capable, platinum needs to funnel upwards and be sunk at their level. probably, the best way to sink it is in high end quests like erlan, windsong, ect... or things like houses, associations, restrung items, training, ect...
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Galok Icewolf
- Sojourner
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Im gonna speak as one of the people that dosent have a problem getting money. On average I'm getting 3-4k a day if I try. Ive put over 10k into my guild and have bought several 6k+ bags and have 4k left.
Im no where near the upper echelon of money. Do i think cash sinks are necessary? Maybe. Though as long as there is eq to sell.. there will NOT be enough cash sinks in the game. Imho money is worthless... Its a mean of me aquirring my 2k worth of potions a week, but other then that I dont really care.
If you want money, you can get it.
Im no where near the upper echelon of money. Do i think cash sinks are necessary? Maybe. Though as long as there is eq to sell.. there will NOT be enough cash sinks in the game. Imho money is worthless... Its a mean of me aquirring my 2k worth of potions a week, but other then that I dont really care.
If you want money, you can get it.
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kiryan
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holy fuck how does one earn 3-4k plat a day without even trying? or is that a secret? if everyone can earn that kind of cash, then i stand corrected on the guild fees shit.
rogues seem to sink alot of cash, I dont think thats true of the other classes. I think it has to do with difficulty of practicing a lot of rogue skills vs the relative ease of practicing bash or spellcast ect...
rogues seem to sink alot of cash, I dont think thats true of the other classes. I think it has to do with difficulty of practicing a lot of rogue skills vs the relative ease of practicing bash or spellcast ect...
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kiryan
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not me rylan, ive only acquired 7.5k in 15 play days. I find it difficult to acquire plat unless im being a loot whore.
Galok posted that he makes 3-4k a day without even trying. im so dumbfounded id call him a liar, but i seriously doubt he'd lie. fuk anyone else make that kind of cash and willing to post / share the secret? I mean at least give us a hint. Are you killing for the plat, questing, picking up some cash that repops, exploiting some shops, ect...
I did hear about one way to twink some good cash, but that hardly constitutes 'without even trying'
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 10-21-2001).]
Galok posted that he makes 3-4k a day without even trying. im so dumbfounded id call him a liar, but i seriously doubt he'd lie. fuk anyone else make that kind of cash and willing to post / share the secret? I mean at least give us a hint. Are you killing for the plat, questing, picking up some cash that repops, exploiting some shops, ect...
I did hear about one way to twink some good cash, but that hardly constitutes 'without even trying'
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 10-21-2001).]
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Galok Icewolf
- Sojourner
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I heard a rumor in which folur had 240k.
I know 15 people that have minnimum 20k.
I don't have any problem getting money if i need it.
It consists of combination of questing, killing, and selling. I made 3.5k in 1.5 hour 2 days ago. This is the only reason im mentioning anything. I have NO need to lie.
I know 15 people that have minnimum 20k.
I don't have any problem getting money if i need it.
It consists of combination of questing, killing, and selling. I made 3.5k in 1.5 hour 2 days ago. This is the only reason im mentioning anything. I have NO need to lie.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galok Icewolf:
I made 3.5k in 1.5 hour 2 days ago. This is the only reason im mentioning anything. I have NO need to lie.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
that 3.5k included selling eq to other players I hope. Otherwise I'm doing the wrong zones.
I still haven't been able to save up enough to buy a bottomless bag, and that's only 6k.
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·Kuurg·
I made 3.5k in 1.5 hour 2 days ago. This is the only reason im mentioning anything. I have NO need to lie.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
that 3.5k included selling eq to other players I hope. Otherwise I'm doing the wrong zones.
I still haven't been able to save up enough to buy a bottomless bag, and that's only 6k.
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·Kuurg·
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Galok Icewolf
- Sojourner
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Heh, plats required to level would bite. Enough plats are needed just to prac skills, at least for most casters.
I have yet to break 1k, and I've been working like mad recently to get xp and plats. Of course, one can't use me as an example, since I haven't broke level 40 yet. But still... can you imagine some n00b getting a message that he can't level up because he needs to get 120 platinum first?
Heh :P
I have yet to break 1k, and I've been working like mad recently to get xp and plats. Of course, one can't use me as an example, since I haven't broke level 40 yet. But still... can you imagine some n00b getting a message that he can't level up because he needs to get 120 platinum first?
Heh :P
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