Sojourn3 Guilds

Archive of the Sojourn3 General Discussion Forum.
Gormal
Sojourner
Posts: 3917
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: A Whale's Vagina
Contact:

Sojourn3 Guilds

Postby Gormal » Wed Oct 24, 2001 4:24 am

I have been thinking and I am curious as to what the staff sees the role of guilds being this wipe. With restrictions all but eliminated on who gets in, and maintaince easy what is the point?

Any pretense olf guilds used to have to maintain at roleplay is all but gone. Any prestige it used to hold seem to be as well. Anyone can join a guild and have a spanky title with even the most ludicrous character descritption, and some of the most weak titles.

Yes I understand how neat ACC is, sure you want to be able to just group with your friends...but can the MUD really handle that now? The playerbase is so low that with the guilds filling up it basically cuts the goodie side into 4 parts, darkstorm, imphras, everyone else at higher levels, and the lowbies...I don't know how it is on the evil side but from what I've heard there's some animosity between the guilds there as well.

I know that people don't restrict guild members to zoning/whatever with others, but if you are in a guild and your guild is zoning you are basically going, whether they need you or not.

Am I bitter about not being in a guild? Nope. So don't make any personal flames against me, I had the opportunities and passed. I even notice people that used to be your friends never asking you whats up or inviting you to go with them because they have a full group of guildies...just because of obligation.

Do the staff see this as helping the mud in any way? Guilds are powerful from a gaming standpoint in that you have instant access to resources, people, and an acc channel. I believe that with the mud's playerbase as low as it is, guilds take the majority of the people and tears them apart.

I don't really have any solutions to this problem since guild code is already implemented. You can't limit the number of guilds in the mud because its just not fair, its also not fair to those who've already formed their guilds. I was just wondering if the staff sees this as an issue as well...most of you play mortals so you have to deal with it in some sense.

I know that 1/2 the guild staff is MIA but I was just looking for opinions.

Gormal (flame away) Stoneforge
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2552
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Wed Oct 24, 2001 5:07 am

You're just jealous because you didn't get into a guild. Your seething anger over that is pretty darn transparent. It seems to exude from every pore and coallesce into a cloud of irkiness that follows you everywhere you go, like a stunty dwarven Pigpen. Just face it- Gormal is not l33t.


Yayaril
Gormal
Sojourner
Posts: 3917
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: A Whale's Vagina
Contact:

Postby Gormal » Wed Oct 24, 2001 5:25 am

*nuzzle Yayaril*
Grintor
Sojourner
Posts: 285
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 6:01 am
Location: san jose, ca, usa
Contact:

Postby Grintor » Wed Oct 24, 2001 5:41 am

ACtually i agree with you gormal.

The changes that have been implemented since the original toril wipe have been based on a toril-like mud population: ie. 180 avg people on line. there's nowhere near that much now, and we need to bring more TYPES of characters to do even simple xp.

now with guilds segregating the already segregated, we will have what caused toril's eventual fall from grace soon enough.

Just my opinion, of course.
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Wed Oct 24, 2001 7:29 am

Its all about the guildhall..

and my personal bedroom with a heartshaped bed.. velvet sheets.. Barry Manilow CD in the stereo.

actually the bedroom will be disguised as a toilet by a powerful illusion. So you need to type "enter toilet" to get in..

Corth
Jhorr
Sojourner
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Jhorr » Wed Oct 24, 2001 10:28 am

lol Corth

c'mon guys, Gorm is serious here! Image
Ensis
Sojourner
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Portland, OR 97219
Contact:

Postby Ensis » Wed Oct 24, 2001 2:01 pm

i agree too, with just about everything you said gorm. I'd like to put emphasis on the class splits. i think players online average now is like 60? 80? at the most half of what it was before, and like you said there are more classes NEEDED in order to do things like exp. Having a stoner isn't handy, its a necessity, having a full healer isn't nice, its required.

If you're lucky you can scrounge up 3 shamans or druids (no offense shaman or druids)

I'm not so much concerned with the split of the mud into its factions, it was like that already without the guildnames, i'm more concerned with what was, how you used to have to sit down and write a charter, have good leaders to endorse it, then afterwards have a person sponsor a new guildie and have probationary periods etc..

sorry if i'm yammering, pointbeing.. agree Gormal :P
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2552
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Wed Oct 24, 2001 4:12 pm

Funny, all I require to do experience is an enchanter. Suffer GOrmal!

Yayaril

Rates: 15 platinum the first minute, 20 platinum each additional minute. Void where prohibited.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Postby kiryan » Wed Oct 24, 2001 4:57 pm

I too would like to know what the point of associations was. Was there a mission statement or just sat around and said hey that'll be cool. I still think the 5k a month flat fee suxors!

people, especially americans, will always seek to set themselves apart from others. Its competition, independent spirit, sometimes good, sometimes bad. It drives and motivates, causes pain and unwarranted discrimination.

This problem, assuming that this is a problem, existed before there were official associations. Some say best way to solve a problem is tackle it head on. Skirting the problem by not imping guilds ect will do little in my opinion. Things will settle down after a while and some guilds will include others, some will not. Everyone in a mad dash to prove that their guild is the best, ect... Word will get around, when exclusionists need help it'll be up to individuals how to respond. When exclusionists wanna do invasion or a cr but really need that non guild cleric, itll be up to them whether they invite the cleric, and itll be up to the cleric if he goes. what can you really hope to do on a global scale?

Individuals define the temperment of the mud, not associations in themselves. Change your actions, and influence those around you.

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 10-24-2001).]
Gormal
Sojourner
Posts: 3917
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: A Whale's Vagina
Contact:

Postby Gormal » Wed Oct 24, 2001 8:09 pm

I don't think that people maliciously exclude others from guilds and such, but it just happens out of obligation. There aren't many people who try to lead zones regularly on the goodie side who are not guilded, I think alot of my frustration stems from the minimum 1 hour I have to spend to find a group that can do anything..and then its usually scraps..a few of my guilded friends aside (#5 love ed!).

People in guilds say that they love the sense of community you get in a guild...is the mud that large that it can't exist as a whole? Having a group of people fiercly loyal to eachother in this setting I think is wrong.

Maybe one solution is to take away the guild chat channel. Its always in everyone's top 3 guild features and really only serves idle chat and helps the guilds get groups ultra fast...."acc need everyone for invasion now!" What if the purpose of guilds was changed from a social/powermudder thing to something that is earned and means something once it is.

How much does a group of people that sticks mostly to themselves help the MUD? Almost none. I would assume that the staff's goals and priorities lie in what is best for the MUD as a whole...not what candy-coated features the players would like to get.
Xebes
Sojourner
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Indiana, USA

Postby Xebes » Wed Oct 24, 2001 9:24 pm

Don't give guilds _any_ features (acc, titles, etc) when they are first created.

Then how bout some fun guild quests... quest to be able to purchase a guildhall, once you have a hall, be able to quest for the acc channel, etc.

------------------
-<(#)>- Xebes makes your heart start to race REAL FAST!
Jhorr
Sojourner
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Jhorr » Thu Oct 25, 2001 6:22 am

Not sure what the controversy is here really.

One function of guilds is that they actually help to preserve the player base. I count 5 guilds at the moment - that's 125 players if they are all full. That's a decent player base right there.

Although belonging to a guild is less important here than on a pkill mud, they do enhance playability of the game. The ACC channel makes things happen a little faster but isn't radically different than friends consenting a group leader from various MUD locations and communicating via gsay.

Getting into a guild isn't hard and they have never been easier to start. Nobody should feel excluded from reaping the benefits of a guild.

Also, realize that guild rosters change. People leave, secede, for whatever reason so slots become available. Just because a guild has no slots right now, doesn't mean a slot won't open up tomorrow.

Guilds will preferentially group guild members for zones but that doesn't mean if you are good and available you won't be grouped. There are many good players right now that aren't guilded for whatever reason but still go to the big zones.

J
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2552
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Thu Oct 25, 2001 6:40 am

I just like having a channel where I can discuss mud issues. Between customizing your own title, and the acc channel, guilds are pretty fun. If I could give myself a title and talk to other mudders about ingame material without a guild, I would be perfectly happy without one.

Yayaril
izarek
Sojourner
Posts: 645
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Irvine, CA

Postby izarek » Thu Oct 25, 2001 5:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jhorr:
<B>Not sure what the controversy is here really.

One function of guilds is that they actually help to preserve the player base. I count 5 guilds at the moment - that's 125 players if they are all full. That's a decent player base right there.

Getting into a guild isn't hard and they have never been easier to start. Nobody should feel excluded from reaping the benefits of a guild.

J</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Been trying real hard not to chime in with my opinions on this subject. But, i gotta disagree with most of Jhorr's post.

Don't these statement contradict each other? If they're full cuz there's some arbitrary limit, it would seem to make it hard to get into guilds at this point.

As for the non-guilded left-overs still getting into zone groups, I think its still a little early to make any conclusions. However, I do think non-guilded, non-essential classes will get screwed. As a non-guilded ranger, I've noticed a drop in my zoning lately. Maybe its just a random fluctuation. Who knows?

Izzy
sok
Sojourner
Posts: 1578
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 5:01 am
Location: santa ana, ca, usa
Contact:

Postby sok » Thu Oct 25, 2001 6:33 pm

i noticed player base on evil side has grow. i dont know if it's cuz of the "where the heck are you" post or cuz they unanon or cuz of guild but it make getting a zoning group easier.

gormal i was in jot w/ u. u didn't invite me to zone w/ u. what's up w/ that, u excluder of evil races.

sok
Vylare
Sojourner
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:01 am
Contact:

Postby Vylare » Thu Oct 25, 2001 9:41 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by izarek:
<B> As for the non-guilded left-overs still getting into zone groups, I think its still a little early to make any conclusions. However, I do think non-guilded, non-essential classes will get screwed. As a non-guilded ranger, I've noticed a drop in my zoning lately. Maybe its just a random fluctuation. Who knows?

Izzy</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I am a non-guilded, level 48 enchanter with dragonscales. Haven't gotten to zone in several weeks now.
sok
Sojourner
Posts: 1578
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 5:01 am
Location: santa ana, ca, usa
Contact:

Postby sok » Thu Oct 25, 2001 11:45 pm

if u were evil lvl 48 w/ dscale man u be zoning lots if there were fhealers on. oh well...
Galorion
Sojourner
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Galorion » Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:28 pm

Vylare, I think that part of the problem is that we have a flood of enchanters on the goodie side all of a sudden. I'm often one of 10 40+ enchanters logged in.

I think that a whole bunch of people went and created enchanters when there weren't many around, and now we have too many.
rylan
Sojourner
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Hudson, MA

Postby rylan » Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:59 pm

Yeah, and oddly enough, we need more warriors now.. lol
Galorion
Sojourner
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Galorion » Fri Oct 26, 2001 3:08 pm

Heh, maybe it's time to start levelling my level 10 barb warrior Image.
Nokie
Sojourner
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Postby Nokie » Fri Oct 26, 2001 3:08 pm

There aren't neary enough Gnome Warriors now! We need everyone to roll up gnome warriors!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galorion:
<B>Vylare, I think that part of the problem is that we have a flood of enchanters on the goodie side all of a sudden. I'm often one of 10 40+ enchanters logged in.

I think that a whole bunch of people went and created enchanters when there weren't many around, and now we have too many.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



------------------
Nokie 'No you don't!! That belongs to me!' Quickfingers
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Postby kiryan » Fri Oct 26, 2001 4:33 pm

evils got a grip of enchanters now too 4 or so 20s, 3 or 4 40s, where the hell they all come from, matter of fact where the hell did everyone come from? Evils makin a comeback. who good 11, who evil 38, course this is around 4am us time, but who cares ROCKON!!!
Vylare
Sojourner
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:01 am
Contact:

Postby Vylare » Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:22 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galorion:
<B>Vylare, I think that part of the problem is that we have a flood of enchanters on the goodie side all of a sudden. I'm often one of 10 40+ enchanters logged in.

I think that a whole bunch of people went and created enchanters when there weren't many around, and now we have too many.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Be that as it may, I got to zone before guilds were put in. Now, I don't.
Note that the reasons I play have not got much to do with zoning, and I certainly had an opportunity to join a guild, so I am not complaining. Just making a point.
Is everyone who is not a warrior going to be forced to guild in order to have an opportunity to zone?


[This message has been edited by Vylare (edited 10-26-2001).]
Treladian
Sojourner
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Treladian » Fri Oct 26, 2001 9:04 pm

Izarek: Jhorr was referring to the fact that it's much easier to start up a guild with a few friends now than it has been in the past. He's also very right about guild slots changing. Revenki decided he didn't have time mud anymore recently so Imphras wound up with an empty slot and several candidates for that slot. There are a lot of people that aren't in our guild that we take in our trips regularly and I'm sure it's the same way for some of the other guilds. As for the decrease in groups, I suspect that it may because the introduction of guilds makes some of the various guild rangers feel more motivated to play, even more than before. How long this will last, I have no idea.

Vylare: As the others have said, there've been A LOT of high level enchanters on recently. Things have changed a bit from back when most of the mud was level 25-30 and any non-anon enchanter would get spammed with tells every 5 seconds.
Vylare
Sojourner
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:01 am
Contact:

Postby Vylare » Fri Oct 26, 2001 9:23 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Treladian:
<B>
Vylare: As the others have said, there've been A LOT of high level enchanters on recently. Things have changed a bit from back when most of the mud was level 25-30 and any non-anon enchanter would get spammed with tells every 5 seconds.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't expect to get "spammed with tells every 5 seconds" and I never have. The point I am making (which obviously is being missed) is that you pretty much have to be guilded to zone, unless you are a warrior.
This was NOT the case before guilds (when there were *just* as many enchanters as there are now, btw). Then, people tended to take the highest level enchanter available. There have been a surplus of enchanters sinec I started playing, which was several months ago, and I did not have this problem until guilds were formed.
I'm not in the best of moods today, so I think I will quit while I am ahead, but again, this has nothing to do with the number of enchanters, we've been overloaded with enchanters for the past several months at least.
Lyt
Sojourner
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Lyt » Fri Oct 26, 2001 9:42 pm

I can't speak for all guilds, but the one I am in, we all typically grouped together before guilds ever went in. As Jhorr said, we kinda have a revolving list of people we take depending on who is on, but it was generally a group of about 35 people. Yes so with guilds being at 25 max, there are still some people who zone with us a lot who aren't in the guild, and then there are others who don't play a lot anymore, but I haven't noticed any major change in the groups we have. Shrug.

But as of late, I have been in a lot of groups (during the day especially) where the group is a mix of various guilds, along with unguilded people in it. I think the biggest determining factor is what time you get on the mud. You have amuch better chance of getting into whatever group is going in during the day, as people aren't as particular in who they take, just as long as they can get the job done. Night time is a different matter, at least on the goodie side.
Xebes
Sojourner
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Indiana, USA

Postby Xebes » Sat Oct 27, 2001 6:02 am

Vylare- can't see that I see the problem you're talking about here.

I log on and I'm usually spammed w/ tells and grouped within a few minutes of logging on, or if I'm not, there's _always_ questing or such to do (or even wandering bgr and spelling up the random lowbie, it may not be the best thing for your char's eq or exp, but it's a quick way to meet new up-and-coming characters)

Anyways, back to the original post topic:

I feel that being guilded gives a lot of bonuses and cheaply too. The whole point of old associations requiring all the RP stuff was both to enhance RP _AND_ to make it more of a pain in the ass to get the benefits. I kinda hate that RP has been trashed for the most part this time around, however much some people of newer generations might just want to hack 'n slash.

-xeb

------------------
-<(#)>- Xebes makes your heart start to race REAL FAST!
Vylare
Sojourner
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:01 am
Contact:

Postby Vylare » Sat Oct 27, 2001 6:42 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xebes:
<B>Vylare- can't see that I see the problem you're talking about here.

I log on and I'm usually spammed w/ tells and grouped within a few minutes of logging on, or if I'm not, there's _always_ questing or such to do (or even wandering bgr and spelling up the random lowbie, it may not be the best thing for your char's eq or exp, but it's a quick way to meet new up-and-coming characters)

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm glad you're not having a problem, and I'm not having a "problem" either.
I am not suffering for lack of equipment, I am not suffering for lack of groups (not because anyone ever asks me to group, but because I have someone to group with already), I am not suffering from lack of things to do. Half the time, I am perfectly happy to sit on my shapely elven rear at 3w.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME! This is about, if I cannot get a zone group more often than once every three weeks, then people who want to zone frequently are not going to get the opportunity to do so unless they guild. I don't think people should have to guild to zone. Does anybody get this, or am I just wasting my breath, heh.
moritheil
Sojourner
Posts: 4845
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 6:01 am

Postby moritheil » Sat Oct 27, 2001 8:51 pm

Know thyself.

The l337 must be aware of their uberness.

That is all.
sok
Sojourner
Posts: 1578
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 5:01 am
Location: santa ana, ca, usa
Contact:

Postby sok » Sat Oct 27, 2001 10:56 pm

if u lead zones u never have to worry about getting into groups. but u can spend hours gathering group Image.
moritheil
Sojourner
Posts: 4845
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 6:01 am

Postby moritheil » Sun Oct 28, 2001 5:23 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sok:
if u lead zones u never have to worry about getting into groups. but u can spend hours gathering group Image.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nog and/or waste time passing up invites.

can't complain tonight, tho. Props to limfor, mogr, tiroc, kazibble, linel and the crew!

Return to “S3 General Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests