This is for anybody that is gonna want a Zipa resurrection.

Archive of the Sojourn3 General Discussion Forum.
zipalodok
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This is for anybody that is gonna want a Zipa resurrection.

Postby zipalodok » Mon Nov 19, 2001 8:51 pm

ok here my guidlines Image

1.) if you dont see me in that zone and your lvl 35 or under dont bother sending me a tell.....but i will res if i'm in that zone sittin around Image but will never walk there......

2.) DONT send me a tell if i'm in room with your corpse..

3.) if i'm in the room with your corpse just do something with your EQ and consent me i will cast res, no buts inbetween, and yea i got a fat consent trig that clearly shows and highlights when you consent....if you dont see me cast in a minute then consent self and re-consent me, if that didnt work i'm AFK :P

3.) Don't even ask me to consent you to hold your EQ, put it on storage or someone else, only time i will if were not by anyone or your storage Image

4.) dont send me repeated tells every 1 min if you think i missed your tell then send me another in atleast 5 for christs sake. ie could be fightin and i dont reply in a fight...

5.) only send me a tell to res you if i'm not sittin on your corpse.....

6.) I will not press your corpse just because you wanna log and cant wait freakin 30 secs. *cough* u know who u all are Image

7.) DO NOT forkin consent someone else real quick to do anything! keep consent on me till your ressed... and if you just didnt consent me before res re-consent to make sure..

8.) if you dont follow the above dont expect a res Image and don't even expect a reponse Image

9.) This doesnt apply for ressers or jaznolg, tis only people i'd drop what i'm doin 90% of the time to res them Image

10.) if you got more than one corpse dont expect me to sit around for 20+mins i'll cast the resses back to back if ya want but wont sit around unless i got nuttin better to do.....i mean shit i dont even hassle ressers that ressin me to do more than one i just get one done whenever i see one in the zone my corpse is.......

this spell aint for me only benieft i can see is to get in a group easier, its gotten really annoyin and bothering, so i came up with this i've told people what to do now i'm postin it.... this is all in hopes for faster reses and less spam and cut down on the annoyin factor....
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Postby Salen » Tue Nov 20, 2001 1:38 am

And what ever you do......

Don't ask him why he has 2 rule 3's
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Postby Corth » Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:01 am

Hi, I'm almost a lawyer.. give me a few months. I'm offering my services (nonlegal) to the evils of sojourn. For 150 plat an hour, I will apply Zip's rules to the circumstances of your case, and advise you on the appropriate way of getting him to res you. Your corpse is at stake and thus it is imperative that you consult an expert before acting.

Corth
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:23 am

I will ress you for free! All inquiries to my representative, Corth.

Heh.
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Postby Corth » Tue Nov 20, 2001 3:42 am

Yeah Shev and I worked out a pretty decent retainer agreement. I represent Shev, Shev allows me to live.

Corth
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Postby Glorishan » Tue Nov 20, 2001 9:57 am

I kill Corth via Shev's consent. So it all balances out in the end.

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Postby Gura » Tue Nov 20, 2001 9:11 pm

if someone wants to deny someone a ress because they wont follow rules THAT is ridiculous. i die in zones constantly from rescueing your ass and you wont ress me if i send you a tell and ask u nicely? how stupid is that? you wanna have your rules fine ill stop dieing in zones and ill watch u die instead so i dont have to bother following your crumby rules to get a ress.
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Postby Wargo » Wed Nov 21, 2001 7:31 am

Heh this sounds like an interesting idea. I guess I'll follow suit with mine Image My rules are pretty simple.

1. I don't ress people under level 30 because you can exp faster. This rule does not apply to friends or enchanters. This rule can be nullified if I'm bored enough Image

2. I don't ress anonymous people because I need to be able to see the level. This rule does not apply to friends.

3. Pretty much if you are an evil and you are 30+ I will ress you. Just make sure you get your corpse to DK fountain and have it pres'd. I will get to it sooner or later. If it's in GH area, it's the doogar clerics responsibility. (We mark our territories Image) If you can't get corpse to DK fountain, be sure to arrange transportation. If you want me to look you up when I get online to ress you, drop your corpse at my house.

I respond to most of tells. If I don't, that means I'm AFK. Try again later. Oh yeah, PLEASE make sure you are consenting me when I'm casting the spell. Resurrection has the world's longest casting time and lagging time. It is highly annoying to have to cast it twice. I don't do consecutive resses. If prefered, please notify me.

Yssilk, The Most Friendly Resser... Image
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Postby rylan » Wed Nov 21, 2001 12:59 pm

I don't really have res rules, as many of you know.. maybe I should so I don't get asked all the time.. snicker

My biggest peev though...
If you have a cursed wep, please have someone else grab it. Its really annoying to have to bag all my crap and quit out to drop your cursed swords, since a lot of times I have to run after I res ya :P
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Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 21, 2001 3:11 pm

eq addressed this issue by giving a lesser version of the spell to paladins, not making it a quest spell, rsetoring the exp without dropping eq on the ground ect (biggest time waster cursed items, hold my bag ect), and introducing an item in the game that reduces ress to about a 15 second time investment. id like to see ress be more trivial, but if you look at the way weve been moving this mud doesnt want ress to be trivial.

gura i agree with you on some of that, we all have roles to play in the game. clerics role extends outside of just grouping where a warriors doesnt. clerics get stuck with spending out of zone time ressing folks. Im sure zip can and will break his own rules when he wants to. hes setting out guidelines and asking people to follow them or risk him refusing. thats just his glowing personality. when you group with others you do your job rescue, heal whatever. when your not grouping your time is basically your own, but ressers, shifters, gaters get spammed with requests sometimes rude sometimes incessant. sometimes they just get fed up and refuse to ress/logon or post rules.

you know there are at least 2 other evil 46+ clerics that dont have ress. from what i hear doesnt even seem like anyone wants to help them. id take it personally if i were them.

i think this thread and others are indicative of some problems. please consider the whole ress process is unnecessarily cumbersome and that perhaps ress quest is too hard.
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Postby Guest » Wed Nov 21, 2001 3:34 pm

I'm sensing some angst? No wait, it's just gas. Ahhhhhh…
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Postby Jegzed » Wed Nov 21, 2001 3:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
gura i agree with you on some of that, we all have roles to play in the game. clerics role extends outside of just grouping where a warriors doesnt. clerics get stuck with spending out of zone time ressing folks. Im sure zip can and will break his own rules when he wants to. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The situation that pissed gura off was this.
We all sit in a group at dk fountain, gathering people to go zoning. Zip is not afk, corpse is in same room, Gura asks zip to ress his corpse and get told "no".

I'm not asking clerics to log of alts or travel all over the world ressing everyone and his dog. I just think that a cleric, IF in the same group should at least ress a groupmember if they are in the same room.



------------------
/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
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Postby Glorishan » Thu Nov 22, 2001 8:32 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
please consider the whole ress process is unnecessarily cumbersome and that perhaps ress quest is too hard.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Veto. Res quest should remain as difficult as it is. It was far far far too simple in the days of old.

Glorishan
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Postby kiryan » Thu Nov 22, 2001 1:38 pm

glorishan whats the point of ress quest being so difficult? so that only a few clerics with lots of friends can get the spell? so that clerics have to wait till high 40s before anyone will help them with the quest? or is all this stuff to keep people from getting resses.

i dont know what the point of difficult ress quest and all the junk you have to go through just to get a ress. dont answer back that its to keep death from being trivial. tough quests dont keep death from being trivial, time and money will keep death from being trivial (ress effect and lost exp is an example of time, having to pay 500 p in components per ress would be an example of money). not annoyances like cursed weapons, handing containers back and forth, begging and dragging corpses to resser. only thing tough quest does is make sure that only the elite have the spell. is that the point?

For reals, make ress quest easier or a gimme spell, get rid of the juggling eq, and get rid of the cleric ress lag and no moves thing. Why do clerics have to pay part of the price (time investment) for each person's death?
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Postby Corth » Thu Nov 22, 2001 3:05 pm

Well Kiryan does make a good observation.. nobody is going to get res unless they have a lot of friends (i.e. are in a guild). I doubt many non-affiliated clerics will be able to get a group to goto avernus... and frankly, if it isn't one of the so-called "elite" groups (i.e. a guild group), I would be very hesitant to go. Its no walk in the park.

I wonder if making res just about unatainable by un-guilded clerics was the intention of the gods when they put the quest in avernus.

Corth
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Postby rylan » Thu Nov 22, 2001 5:49 pm

Actually we'll be helping other clerics with the res quest. Its surprising the help you can get if just ask Image

Personally I think the quest is a huge pain in the ass, but its also arguably the most powerful spell in the game. I think its fine, since the gods made it easier before when people didn't have the resources to do the full quest, and now its all back in since its doable.

But yeah.. kill that cleric res lag Image
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Postby Zrax » Thu Nov 22, 2001 5:51 pm

About 90 percent of the good stuff on this mud requires a strong group to get, Ress should be no different. I don't see how this would be hard for a cleric considering the real benefit of them getting Ress is felt by everyone else and not themselves. Then there are clerics who level up to 46 anon and expect help with the quest so they can quietly slip back into the shadows and be anon again, and in my opinion they deserve the resounding no they recieve when asking for help.
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Postby Zolth Alebringer » Thu Nov 22, 2001 6:34 pm

Ok, first of all, I'd like to reply to the last thing I read before answering to this thred:

["About 90 percent of the good stuff on this mud requires a strong group to get, Ress should be no different. I don't see how this would be hard for a cleric considering the real benefit of them getting Ress is felt by everyone else and not themselves. Then there are clerics who level up to 46 anon and expect help with the quest so they can quietly slip back into the shadows and be anon again, and in my opinion they deserve the resounding no they recieve when asking for help." Posted by Zrax.]

Ok, I'm not even near getting ress yet, I'm to low level to start the quest AND I always play anon. Dornax asked me today why I was anon at my level when not beeing anon would help me out tons to get groups and get my levels up to ress-able. I didn't know what to answer to that. Perhaps it's a little bit embaracing to be the level I am. Shrug. Maybe I haven't invested enough time in exp yet and should have been 45+ a long time ago. Enuff said about that.

One thing that came to mind when reading everyones post on this thred is that if we stick to the plan (no pwipe right?) then everything has GOT TO BE HARD. Otherwise everyone and its (note: it/its.) sister would level a cleric up to 46, do the ress quest when they get bored. Just to have when they need a cleric for zones to always have a resser standing by when hoarding eq for thier primes.

However that's not the case now. I agree with Glorishan, keep the ress quest hard as hell so that every cleric will have to work their nuts of to get it so the spell will be keept at the repect it should get.

Now, I know you got some POW on that so let me hear it so we can straighten this out.

Thanks.


------------------
Angels falls First, Ale is for the good of man!
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Postby Corth » Thu Nov 22, 2001 7:10 pm

Good point Zolth..
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Postby Snizzle » Fri Nov 23, 2001 4:22 am

Zolth said everything purty well !

I would add that I die often enuff , and have the good fortune to have been ressed a few times. Such a powerful, hard to get spell out to have some dang ANSI!

Maybe a glowing proc for the target, or something.

I feel so so bland and plain after being touched by a stinky non gnomie gawd!
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Postby Grintor » Fri Nov 23, 2001 5:29 am

hey anybody know alvathair?

poor bastard is 46+ enchanter and no one will help him get dscales, and he doesnt ever expect to get the spell.


like i've always said, this game is about who you know, not how good you are.
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Postby gordex » Fri Nov 23, 2001 6:47 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Grintor:
like i've always said, this game is about who you know, not how good you are.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The same has been said about life. Get used to it. :P

Gordex - Gordex Travel Agency
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Postby Wargo » Fri Nov 23, 2001 8:06 am

Grintor,

This game is based on how good you are and not who you know. You become known by showing off your skills. Sometimes it's easier to do that if you choose the right class. Why doesn't people realize that? The same thing is true in real life.

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Postby Gort » Fri Nov 23, 2001 2:05 pm

RE: quest spells

Unless grouped, or leaving for something IRL, I will always help someone get a quest spell, be it ress, or dscales, I don't have the knowledge of what's required for those quests, but being a shaman, I'm not supposed to. I do now, thanks to some help, have gheal (finally) the "prime" shaman goal spell, and this makes me a bit more helpful in those situations. If you see me on (I'm never anon) and need help, let me know.


Toplack
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Postby Yasden » Fri Nov 23, 2001 4:07 pm

Alvathair is a good player...he's been around for years...heh.

And I personally don't think it's about who you know etc. It's about favors returned. You help people out at lower levels, you go beyond the norm, go out on a limb for someone, they will remember that. You can't just sit back and mooch exp/eq and expect everyone to come running for your cry of help.

I know there are currently 2 or 3 clerics on the evil side now that are 46th without res. We're working with all of them to get it....not because they're elite, not because they're in an association, but because they are our friends, they have helped us with things when no one else was available.

So, it isn't about who you know, or how good you are, it's about how hard you want to work for the things you want....nothing more.

If I were a goodie and knew dscales, I'd help out Alvathair, simply because I've known him for a long time and I know for a fact he's helped me and he is a good player.

Enough of my incessant blabbering...

Deathmagnet

P.S. Zip only made those rules because he's usually too stoned to type much. :P *nog me*
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Postby zipalodok » Fri Nov 23, 2001 9:12 pm

i ressed like 3 corpses before gure asked they just consented i casted, and i didn't even respond to gura if he woulda consented i would have casted,i got a trig that says num nut has corpse when told res Image .....other ressers seem to know what i'm talkin about Image
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Postby Gormal » Fri Nov 23, 2001 10:33 pm

Alvathair plays at the most god awful times, is anon, and when hes on hes usually afk at work. I am friends with him and such but with all this taken into consideration I wonder if he has even done CC once this boot on any char? No one does cc during aussie times, if he made a request to someone to do it for him im sure they'd schedule it. Just expecting people to help you get something because you are the appropriate level is crap.

I don't think you can expect a group to just go to Avernus on a whim cause you exp'd to 46. Maybe I'm just mean, I don't believe in going out of my way to do ambran items for the level 36 paladins that ask me, or collect windsong crap for low level rangers... ya gotta earn it a little bit i think.

Clerics that are always anon usually are because they have a group of people..if that's the case I just wouldn't expect people to jump and help you with cleric quests...there are so many others who are level 46-50 and don't have it that group with everyone and aren't anon.

enjoy!
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Postby rylan » Fri Nov 23, 2001 10:54 pm

*nods* Gormal. I didn't even know alvathair was lvl 46+ actually. Stuff like scales you can do with an xp buffer.. stuff like Res, I won't go to avernus unless the person questing has a couple buffers worth, due to the decent chance of multiple deaths.

If you need help with a quest, start asking around. I've helped lots of people out with quest stuff, both spells and eq.
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Postby Grintor » Sat Nov 24, 2001 2:30 am

actually locky has distanced himself from the population of the mud pretty much. i'm happy when i get the occaisonal hello Image he's the coolest player around, expects little and if i was a goodie i'd get a job that allowed me to play with him again like we used to.

oh well.

i aint done cc this boot either, but my chanter gets her quest spells done.
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Postby Ragorn » Sun Nov 25, 2001 8:37 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gormal:
Maybe I'm just mean, I don't believe in going out of my way to do ambran items for the level 36 paladins that ask me, or collect windsong crap for low level rangers... ya gotta earn it a little bit i think.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You will quest Windsong for me and email me when it is completed.

- Ragorn
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Postby kiryan » Mon Nov 26, 2001 11:05 am

in response to ress quest has to be hard because there is no more pwipe.

dont fit. things dont have to be insanely difficult to protect the longevity of the game. they have to be balanced. why dont we put a haste cloak in the game that would cause an average of 100 player deaths before people could obtain one. that wouldnt be balanced and would eventually haste items would be broken again. It wouldnt be any different if it cost 200 player deaths.

Very difficult ress quests only alienates people, causes clerics to resent folks that dont help them with their quests, and gives them a reason to be big dicks about casting it (that and the cleric ress lag, cursed items, and the annoying bag passing thing).

If it took me 3 months to do ress quest and it was like pulling teeth to get information and help, i might be a big dick when someone who didnt help me asks for a ress. That negativity then gets passed down and multiplied. Part of that is my personality and not everyone would be like that, but Im sure some would quit because they were so frustrated or give up and make an alt until someone was willing to walk them through it. What does that accomplish?

Ress is essential, and super essential for some zones. nothing that is essential should be ridiculously difficult or only available to a select group (be it elite, good or evil).

Id be much more in favor of plane shift being as difficult as ress quest and ress quest being as easy as plane shift. Clerics exist to full heal and ress, if they want to planeshift they can decide whether its worth it.

Its not like anyone is really in danger of losing a corpse (well not counting the new drag press bug feature). All we are accomplishing is annoying the few ressers frustrating the up and coming ones, and keeping people from getting corpses ressed for days or weeks.

Am I alone in this analysis?
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Postby moritheil » Mon Nov 26, 2001 3:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gura:
if someone wants to deny someone a ress because they wont follow rules THAT is ridiculous. i die in zones constantly from rescueing your ass and you wont ress me if i send you a tell and ask u nicely? how stupid is that? you wanna have your rules fine ill stop dieing in zones and ill watch u die instead so i dont have to bother following your crumby rules to get a ress.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gura he's referring to people whose deaths he had nothing to do with, who happen to pass by and want a ress from him. The majority of cleric ress cases are ones where they weren't present for the death.

If I don't know you, and I have well, am I obligated to well you? I might do it to be nice, but if I'm afk doing something and boss walks in, or I need to get off ASAP due to some RL stuff you can be sure as hell I'm not going to get your message. I wouldn't make rules for asking for a well or ress if I had those spells, since imho all of those are common sense, but if he wants to, it's his char. He did the quest and it's his right.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Nov 26, 2001 3:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
Well Kiryan does make a good observation.. nobody is going to get res unless they have a lot of friends (i.e. are in a guild). Corth</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really kickass people have ressed me. I am !guild. It just requires patience (in my case, literally weeks of patience).
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Postby Tuga » Mon Nov 26, 2001 3:56 pm

Well, to me all goodie ressers have been great apart from one, because all he did was ignore my tell. I would been much happier with a simple 'no'.
Rulez are stupid and only serves to piss people off, but itz their choice if they want to do the favor or not.

You guyz are doing a great job at keeping the morgue clean Image

HI5 all round and many Thanks to:
Dornax, Rylan, Ebgar and Kyto

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Postby Ebgar » Mon Nov 26, 2001 4:25 pm

Well, i must say, before i had it, yeah i bitched cause quest was hard, but it's an awesome quest, and every cleric should have to do it. Ress isn't like DI, that's what you're making it sound like, it's just not a utility spell, it's lifegiving. We have the most powerful spell in the game, and yes, it's annoying, waiting for people to get naked, cursed weapons, etc, but i mean...we're giving exp back, we're bringing you instantly back to a zone...regardless of it being !teleport or whatever.......

I'm happy to ress people, i sit 3w alot, but i mean yeah, if i'm in a zone or playing an alt, i'm not gonna ress you, but that doesn't mean i'm an ass, or all clerics are elite or something....it's our spell, we can choose when to ress...just like i have to beg a necro to rejuv me, or when i shift ep, i have to beg an enchanter/invoker/ill to gate for me, or beg a druid for a well. We all have our key spells, and we all need them from each other, clerics just happen to have the most powerful, so we have the hardest quest imho. I don't see anyone bashing druids for being elite? Just understand we weren't put here to run 400 miles to your corpse, our time is valuable...and i gurantee you if i'm sitting 3w, and you drag a corpse to me, if i'm at keyboard i'll ress it.
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Postby Corth » Mon Nov 26, 2001 8:07 pm

Morithiel:

I was talking about Getting the ability to cast the spell, not the benefits of the spell..

Corth
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Postby kiryan » Mon Nov 26, 2001 8:39 pm

I've kinda figured that ress quest is impossibly hard so that clerics will be obligated to someone or group of people who helped them do it.

I think that sounds good on paper but fails in rl, i hope that wasnt one of your all reasons.

Make ress quest easy or a gimme, get rid of cleric ress lag and no moves, and eliminate the juggling cursed eq and bag stuff.

Its way to irritating for everyone involved considering that every person over 30 gets there corpse pressed for eventual ress. How many 30+ deaths are there a day gods? How many ressing clerics are there? Why are there 30-40 corpses that need ressing sitting in DK every day. What purpose does that serve?
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Postby Mplor » Mon Nov 26, 2001 9:02 pm

What if clerics raise their arbitrary level limit for resses to 40 instead of 30. I'm resisting the temptation to comment on how things worked "back in the day" but I think this would cut down on the hassle significantly.
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Postby Zrax » Mon Nov 26, 2001 9:25 pm

I have to agree with Mplor. I wont even bother asking for a ress till over level 40 with warrior/rogue classes, maybe 35 for casters. At least you had ressers when you were leveling Caz, I lost 5 corpses getting my shadow sword, and was happy for the trade off. Lost 18 corpses doing the ress quest in our first run. Be thankful there are ressers to pop you up when you do spank doing the ress quest. What satisfaction is there if everything is given to you easily?

Caz, I do however agree with you on the cursed item juggling thing, this is just silly.

The only problem i had with the ress quest at all was the no teleport portions of it. I used all my sick days at work for that quest having to stay up so late to get out of the zone.
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Postby kiryan » Tue Nov 27, 2001 6:34 am

i dont think clerics raising their self imposed ress limit to 40 is going to make little difference and cause a lot of animosity between players. How about if some cleric decides 45 is his number, 50?

The problem really isnt with the number of corpses. death and some loss of exp/time is healthy. its with the irritants of the ress process. questing the spell, juggling the bags and cursed eq, the cleric getting lag/no moves. Each of these things contributs to a very ress unfriendly environment. Hard ress quests allows for fewer ressers. The juggling causes an additional time investment for both the cleric and the player, and the cleric ress lag/no moves keeps clerics from casting resses quick.

Its great that some folks dont expect resses pre 40, ect.. I kinda think that if one player can save another player an hour or 2 of time, they ought to try if its not to inconveniencing. Some folks enjoy the challenge of exp i suppose, i find it positively dreadful.
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Postby kiryan » Tue Nov 27, 2001 11:38 am

As for what fun is it if everything is easy. Im not suggesting we make everything easy. Im suggesting that we make ress and ress quest easy. Some people dont enjoy ultra hard, some people do. There are plenty of ultra hard things for individuals to choose to do in sojourn. You could solo a snake rogue to 50 without twink eq and aid from other folks. You could do invasion with 12 men. Like I said before, id be much happier if ress quest and plane shift swapped quests. That way those clerics that want that uber challenge can do it for plane shift instead of a vital spell.

On ress isn't really essential and your making it out to be like DI.

Essential as DI... hopefully you ask for or quaff potions for di far more often than you ask for ress, but for every time you die, I bet you want a ress dont you? Just like every time you enter a portal to eth you want di. Id call that pretty essential. I know I want a ress every time i die.

You can use sense life to navigate eth if you wanted, use blind fighting and faerie fog to slay perm invis creatures. Why do you ask for di most of the time? To keep you from dieing? I suppose ress isnt essential in that you can just re-exp to make up for deaths, but if your going to call DI essential, i think im warranted in calling ress essential.

If resses were not available would you argue with me that folks would consider with whom they zone in much greater detail? Especially if they didnt need eq from the zone? Isn't grouping/zoning peoples major source of enjoyment? Often, the direct result of zoning is death. Ress is a fundamental part of the game as death is. Why do you think we have preserve and embalm and preserve was modified to last 3x as long per cast?

Its my opinion that when you look at all the dynamics involved with ress your left with this question. Is our goal to reduce the number of resses or increase it. We're on both sides of the fence.

I would like us to go in the direction of more and easier resses. You can start by tackling the non-controversial issues (at least among players)

1. remove cleric ress lag
2. remove cleric 0 moves after ress
3. address the juggling containers annoyance
4. address cursed items annoyance

possibly controversial
1. drag while flying
2. drag out of no ground rooms

controversial
1. make ress quest easier
2. drop ress down a circle
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Postby rylan » Tue Nov 27, 2001 1:13 pm

My thoughts as a resser... and having done both the short and full verion of the res quest.

Res should be kept as a 10th circle spell, as its damned powerful.
I don't mind holding people's bags.
Cursed weps are a pain in the ass.. it would rock if there was a differnace between !drop and cursed.. so that weps flagged !drop could be put in bags and handed to people, but, well, not dropped Image
Lag after casting the spell.. I'd like to see it cut in half. Removed entirely? While this would be nice, I think there should be some lag after casting, but not such a massive amount. I'd also like to see no lag if someone didn't consent.
No moves after casting res.. thats fine with me. We have vigs if we gotta go somewhere.

About the quest itself. I think the shortened verion was appropriate when the gods modified the quest, since we needed the spell then, and people were generally lacking the eq to get all of the items without massive deaths (see evils initial attempts at full quest.. ouch).
The full quest requires quite a bit of knowledge and exploring, so of course you're gonna need help. Personally I think any 10th circle quest spell should need a good sized group to complete. Make the quest easier.. hmm.. to be honest the full quest only really has 1, well actually 2, extra things over the short verion you have to do that are hard and can result in group spanks. The other items require thinking and exploration to find, and shouldn't result in a spank. I think its alright the way it is.. just some annoying parts. The quest story was written very well, and is pretty cool as you go through the steps. Image
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Postby moritheil » Tue Nov 27, 2001 7:20 pm

Corth - ah. gotcha.
kiryan - heh... I don't use di when I enter portal to ethereal... of course, I always have sense life/vit/pass up, and my hand over the word button. Image

I think that what we are dealing with is different levels of utility. di prevents spank; it differs from ress which ameliorates spank. The first few months proved to me that well was not essential, it was just a perk (gating hijinks).

Put simply, a warrior without di just can't make do (unless they have extra spanky eq), but a warrior without a ress can go out and exp. Yes, either way, being without often bites.
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Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 28, 2001 6:00 am

good points rylan.

get rid of the avernus portion of ress quest and id be happy. i dont care if folks got to wander all over toril solo or in small groups to get what they need even if it was 50 items from the farthest reaches, the getting a good group of 50s and an experienced leader to go do avernus bothers me.

on di vs ress. true, you did without ress for a long time. but didnt you pres every corpse so it could be ressed later? Thats not exactly doing without, its delayed ress.
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Postby Todrael » Wed Nov 28, 2001 1:09 pm

For several months preserving of more than one corpse was not allowed. Count that in with the insane difficulty of Avernus on that first run (it's been downgraded significantly, and people are still afraid of it) and you got a lot of rotted corpses.

-Todrael
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Postby Zrax » Wed Nov 28, 2001 2:59 pm

Those corpses i mentioned were lost were just that, lost. I had 2 preserved corpses when we finished ress. I had lost over 40 at that point including 6 that were perm pressed that were removed from the game when the only one corpse pres rule was initiated.
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Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 28, 2001 7:16 pm

nod, forgot about that. but that 1 corpse rule was instated because of the low level corpse high level ress exploit right? Not only that, the rule was since removed making it easier to get a ress. We keep doing things to make getting a ress easier.

Still, thats not the main thrust of my argument. You shouldnt have to have a band of l33t friends in order to get ress. A regular zone group should be able to do it. Now, im not at all saying you should be able to do any zone with a rag tag group, but ress is an essential spell not an optional piece of eq. All clerics should be able to get ress, and I dont think thats true atm.
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Postby sok » Wed Nov 28, 2001 9:24 pm

imo dscales quest is cake. am i insane? well, it's easy cuz i know it. and i know the zones. quest will be cake once i know it and know the zone. knowledge is everything. we debating making it easier cuz we dont know it.

example: i remember when i was a smally and never lead invasion. i was afraid to lead invasion. now invasion is cake.

of course now there are zones like md, avenus, etc which causing lots of spank. now are spank cuz we didn't know how to fight the mobs or cuz we were stupid. most of time it's lack of knowledge.

basically wat i'm saying is, roll w/ the punches. if god make it easier great, but i doubt they will, whic means when we get more knowledge of zones it will be cake and all cleric 46+ will have quest.

sok resser 2 b.
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Postby Wargo » Thu Nov 29, 2001 5:10 am

I would like to point out something that a fellow resser stated and which I personally agree with and that is "ress is a previlege and not a right." The biggest problem with ress is not how difficult it is to quest for. It is not the consent. And it is definitely not the cursed stuff. The biggest annoyance is that everyone, and I mean everyone, who has a corpse will ask you if you can ress him/her. These tells can come from anywhere at any time. Now if you factor in the number of people playing, the number of ressers available, the rate people die (do you know there are people who make 4 corpses a day on average?), you get the picture of how spammed a resser can get. That's why it is very understandable if a cleric has an artificial level requirement or other rules. I am sure every resser agrees with me on this.

As for making the quest easier, I think the hard quest is actually helping the new clerics. A cleric does not need ress in order to go to zone and any zone group will pretty much need only 1 resser. The non-ressing cleric can play with all the enjoyments that comes with the class without the hassle. Only a real dedicated cleric will want to complete the class and the experience and a cleric like that i'm sure will have no trouble finding a group to help him/her in completing the quest. If you make the quest easy then people will complete the quest for any upcoming cleric just so they have enough resser on to abuse. You all think it's good to have more ressers but have you ever thought about it from the clerics' point of view?

I personally think only people who have played a resser and had the full experience should have any say on this matter. Before I was a resser, I was just like all of you. I asked for di, invis, moonwell, ress. They are all the same. Just another spell you ask from people, right? Wrong. After I became a resser, I got a whole different mentality that only comes with the class. So I say, if you have never played a resser, refrain from posting your opinion on the quest PLEASE! The ignorance is annoying!

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Postby kiryan » Thu Nov 29, 2001 1:35 pm

good point sok, once you learn ress quest im sure all evil clerics over 46 will get ress no matter how tough it is.

I fully disagree that ress is a privelege, but I agree you need to be VERY considerate whenever you request favors from folks. For ress, be nekkid and ready before you ask. Yes you may have to get dressed again if the cleric can ress you, deal with it to save the cleric a few seconds. For transports have your targets lined up and if it takes you less than 15 minutes to walk there walk. On the evil side, watch the day light / ultra thing.

Ress is currently implemented as a privilege. It gives ressers too much power / authority. Allows them to walk around like they are big shit (not that any or all do) but they can. Tell me what other class commands this much power and can hold EXP / our time investment hostage? None. When you die you are completely at the mercy of a cleric to restore your exp. You can walk nearly anywhere, numerous classes have transport spells, but only one class can restore your exp, and at the moment there are relatively few ressers.

I think thats wrong. I think that soj is trying to make things easier and enjoyable. Having to re-exp for 2-5 hours depending on class because you died one time is not nice. Trying to get into exp groups is often a chore in it self. Does anyone enjoy doing exp? or is it just a means to level and practice skills?

If ress is a privilege, then death is way to common.

I tend to think about things in terms of time. Transport spells save time, Ress saves time. EQ is guaranteed so you rarely lose your time investment in eq (please get rid of fumble, corpse rot, and ress curse bag annoyance). Soj has guaranteed no more pwipes. Soj protects your time investment. Let ress be more common and less annoying.

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