EQ Splits

[Kybrell]

Ok here we go back to the same old whine when it comes to how people split and who gets what. (I want you to keep in mind that I've probably mudded on this mud since before alot of you all knew how to even turn on the computer.) I honestly believe that the people that died the most should get 1st pick but I also think that there is a "need" basis too. Why do you give the person that died one of the most wanted pieces of eq when he/she already has 10 of the same items? Also.. don't try and make me look or feel foolish because I send you a tell saying that I have to go to work and am just letting you know the items that I am interested in and trust that you'll be fair after I log.
Another gripe is this... If a leader leads a zone, no matter how small the zone is.. I think he/she should have a choice of what eq that is gotten in that zone. I respect a person that gets off their fanny and actually leads something instead of standing in town whining there is nothing to do. BUT (i sure say BUT alot.) I think that leader should make it known that they intend to keep a particualar item and not ignore the other people in the group when they ask who got that same item. It's silly. It ticks me off when people do that. My God! How hard is it to do that zone another day for someone else that may actually NEED that item?
Anyway I am basically just venting and this was my 1st available time to do so.
TTFN
Kybrell

[Galok Icewolf]

Okay, I'm going to try not to be mean or anything. I am pretty sure this is about me.


I'm pretty much doing nothing, and I'm told to log my shaman on by unnamed and run to IC.
I get there, then people follow me and tell me I'm leading IC. *roll* Not a problem IC isnt hard or anything, lead the zone get back to dk. First thing that happens is 1/2 the group leaves, so I try to hand out items and have to constantly query people as to what they want, and what they have. After I do this for about 15 minutes the eq is finally pased out except the nebie. It was between me, unnamed1, and unnamed2. Unnamed2 said its okay he'll get it next time, so I decided since i was basically forced to lead IC, getting nebie over one other person (when i need it just as much) wasn't too bad.


I'm one of the fairest people when i comes to eq, I spend hours a day keeping lists on who got what in what zone, so I can be fair and give eq to people that didnt get something the previous time. I deal with hour+ dealing with leading then however amount of time after, with people saying gimmie gimmie gimmie. It irks me that I put all this time and effort into this to have people continuosly thinking about themselves.

You don't like it.... lead the zone yourself, I'm tired of being nice and being walked on.

[kiryan]

my philosophy.

Leader can do whatever the smack he wants with the eq. Split it any way he wants, keep it all, ect. I have no problem with that even if he keeps it all.

If im worried about how eq will be split, ill ask how eq going to be split before zone starts and make a decision. If I dont ask before hand, then im trusting the leader to hand it out any way he wants and hes trusting me not to complain if it wasnt done how i think is right. If you have a disagreement pre-zone either of you can walk away. If you dont like how the eq is split you can not follow that leader next time. Its unfair to a leader to try and negotiate the terms of the split after zone. You can be upset, but if thats the case, you should probably ask how eq will be split pre-zone to save yourself disappointment.

Also, I think number of deaths should have little to no influence on whether or not you get a piece of eq, but thats the leaders perrogative. Its often chance, lack of levels, and sometimes just stupidity that gets you killed imo. If death gets you eq, sign me up to die the most in every zone (but not more than gura or targsk *shudder*).

[Ilshadrial]

Yeah who dies the most in a zone should be no factor, unless the person who dies the most is sacraficing himself/herself to do a mass group CR.

Besdies the most skilled players are the hardest to kill. They take the extra time needed to stock up on misc magic items which can turn the balance of the fight in their favorite almost everytime.

Unless your a suck shit grey elf.

Kevin

[Yayaril]

I never understood why dying a lot ever gave a person the privelege of getting the gear. As for leaders, if you don't like their system, I highly suggest never following that person again. Find a leader you think is fair and then follow them consistently. If no leader is like that, then start leading zones yourself. There are plenty of zone leaders who I won't follow because I don't much care for their equipment distribution methods.


Yayaril

[moritheil]

Hmm... lemme weigh in, as I've seen much groupie death. I think if someone died doing a critical service, that counts for something. Example, fight was going bad, I hit a lag patch and got switched to, vigis was tank and had to be rescued by our basher. Even though he was real low on hps, and my heals weren't going off very timely (due to lag), he rescued me and the voker, and took the death so we didn't. That counts in my book.

On the other hand if someone wanders into... hm, the Crimson Death, and I told them the zone was dangerous and not to wander, I will try to CR them if possible but I don't think it's the group's fault. Said person would not get extra eq.

I think as a group leader it's very important to balance the needs of the group against the individual.

In re: groupleader picking, there are many times I have done a zone and forgotten to say that I wanted such and such, and when other people bid on it at the end, I let them have it. If I didn't remember to tell ppl I wanted to reserve such and such, then I must not really need it that badly.

If someone had 10 of a given item there better be an incredibly good reason they need another one.

[Vipplin]

I agree that the leader can certainly split however they wish. If they plan to do something other than random handouts, it would be nice if they'd tell the group ahead of time. If you are concerned about the handout method, ask when the group is forming.

So far, in what little I've led I've done totally random bid-type handouts just to avoid headaches.

I think death-based handouts blow unless they really sacrificed for the group somehow (am I agreeing with Kiryan on this? *boggle*). If you take it on the chin and actually save the group from a spank by doing so, ok, maybe that deserves something. Like Kiryan, I'll willingly die for a piece of eq that I need (or to save the group if I could).

Need-based handouts are ok, but it is best to let everyone know that's what you're doing at the outset so well-equipped people aren't pissed at the end.

Performance-based handouts I haven't yet seen personally but would be cool. Someone really shows skill in a zone and/or saves the spank? Give 'em first pick or give them two bids if you're doing lottery.

Vadian

[Rokub]

I feel from the evil standpoint that most of the times items are given out. Some people don't like this method, but from the standpoint of a person who has been playing since day 1 of this wipe, I believe the people who have done the particular zone the most should get the equipment, thaz how most of IC vault eq was split with evils. Its not my problem that its your 1st trip there. The person who has been 10 times and got nothing deserves their chance at the item. I can say from my perspective there were a few people in this situation all the time. People don't think handouts are fair but it comes to fairness for doing the zones and waiting your turn for the item. Can I say how many times you have gone? no, but leaders can remember somewhat. This won't work for everyone, but it can work and has.

Rokub

[Kybrell]

Geez! Well let's see. I guess I didn't make myself totally clear in my original post. I was not saying the leader was not being fair in my group that did IC. If I'd felt that I'd of said "Hey unamed You're not splitting fair!" Shyness is not one of my virtues. All I was saying is that I could see why you may have made the decisions that you made and that I just didn't agree with certain parts of it. I could care less if you kept the nebula. I haven't even been in the game today to even KNOW for sure that you took it. I already have one and I'd of rather seen it go to a person with so so eq. Getting my drift? I don't like the idea that it made me sound like I was being a gimme gimme sort of person when I sent you 2 tells. 1 saying I had to go to work. 2. The items I am interested in are blah and blah. Then instead of you responding to me in a tell something along the lines of "ok, noted or whatever, you replied in group. Even though you didn't actually name me it majorly offended me. I have grouped with many of these people who were in the group before. I am not eq greedy and don't like to hear I want I want the whole zone. And as for you being mean or now disliking to group with me then that is your choice. If my asking you if you'd like to zone with us or lead a place I may not lead well etc makes you feel like you were tricked into something then I won't ask you anymore. I don't even think I knew you had a shaman so I know it wasn't me that asked you to switch. I honestly wasn't planning any personal attacks against anyone. If that was interpeted that way then I don't know what to say to you. I will say however that in the future, when leading a group, say beforehand that you want such and such eq or that particular eq is being kept for a certain person. I'd not refuse to come to a zone because eq that I like is promised to someone else because I know there is always gonna be another time and it would save alot of conflict in the future.
And as for all those people that died... keep in mind.. 5 more levels and a nasty quest and we'll be ok!
Kybrell
P.S. To Ilshadrial: I just had this terrible flashback of the time YOU led Jot and slayed us all hehe. Hugz

[Vylare]

I personally like rolling for the equipment. I've no idea where this "handing out" thing came from, but I don't like it. Just another reason I rarely zone.
But I am in agreement that leaders should divide the equipment however they want to.
If people dislike the way that it is done enough, they will quit following that person.
Or quit zoning

[sok]

i have no input. just wanted to say next zone i lead this is my spliting method. so dont say u never knew cuz posted it. i'm split all eq cept 1 piece. which i will handout. i can hand it out to myself or another member of group.

example. if we do cc. all will be up for bid cept 1 item. usually diamondine. which i will hand out.

i found that total bid is semi unfair and handout is semi unfair. so going along w/ 2 negative equal a positive i incoporated both unfairness and got a system.

anyways that's all from me.

[Baikalisan]

I dont really have alot to say on this other than i agree that if you plan on withholding a certain item for yourself for leading a zone or for somebody who you are specifically leading a zone for then you should say so in the beginning, especially when it is an extremely sought after item.

Then again i dont lead zones, and this is one of the main reasons for it.
For the leaders out there catching hell for the way they do things, take notes and dont invite ppl back into your groups.

I gotta stick up for my sister tho, she hadda work, sent 2 tells and caught a whole lotta flack for it that was unnecessary. Bad days i understand..Taking your bad day out on somebody else i dont.

Now everybody go have a beer and Enjoy!

[Glorishan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ilshadrial:
<B>Yeah who dies the most in a zone should be no factor, unless the person who dies the most is sacraficing himself/herself to do a mass group CR.

Besdies the most skilled players are the hardest to kill. They take the extra time needed to stock up on misc magic items which can turn the balance of the fight in their favorite almost everytime.

Unless your a suck shit grey elf.

Kevin</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Snort, elf power!

Glorishan

[Jasix Prowlingwolf]

hehe this thread could be the longest one ever posted on without much trouble. What causes more hassle son the mud then eq splits? hehe nothing!!


I don't agree with a few of the so called "leaders" and their handout methods. Some are just plane screwed up... If you reward those that zone with yu day in day out before that one person you never grop with but you NEED to do a zone then how do you expect them to want to zone with you next time? Your just going to give the best stuff to the people that you play with everyday first anyway.....

Oh yes I agree SOME of the time they deserve the good eq more cause they are your loyal lapdogs.... But they will be in that zone with you tomorrow so why not have them wait a day longer and give the good stuff to the person you roped in cause you NEEDED them not cause you wanted to even have them there in the first place....

Oh am I being negative again?? Funny that..

Now if some player zoned with you every day for weeks and they never got the item they were after then sure I think they might deserve it, but MOST of the time the hand outs go to those that done really need..

Hand downs are cool but not always. I dont do Brass so i can get a handed down tit ring that kills me from the +sv_sp, I want a FAIR chance to get the amy ring or ellie ring... Why does the guy with the tit ring get the right to have the Amy ring over the poor sap that been wearing a pair of scarlets since lvl 26? cause he not licked ya butt long enough?????? Probably....

There is not right way to do bids but there are a LOT of wrong ways... Wrong menaing NOT what the poeple in that group that killed for the ideas wants... If you dont think that lvl 41 enchanter you 'let join' for one zone cause your regular glober isn't on, is worth as much as the lvl 50 illusionist with all the spanky gear then thing again! You should look after the people you group with only when you NEED them more since tomorrow you will just ignore them again.....

If you cant give someone the SAME concideration as your usual group when it comes to handing out stuff dont ask them i the first place, if people want to group for piss weak hand-outs then that's fine. Someone that doesn't care a fair go will always be used and abused by everyone.

If you like being used that's fine, go bend over at the Waterdeep fountain, there is more then enough people happy to screw you over if your to meek to stand up for your rights....

PS Touk's method of giving extra bids to those that not win is a good idea but not always the best. Cheers to him for having the guts to implament his own unique system.

If you have all there is form a zone you should be happy to go home empty handed, you been there before and got it all, why not give others a chance? (hehe why not? cause your prob to selfish to try it :P)

Open bids rule if your not grouped with a bunch of greedy wankers...

Best dressed don't mean your a good person...
Just means you been there before....

Jasix "loves to rock the boat" Prowlingwolf

[Kybrell]

:eek!: I detect a little rage from Jasix hehe. Although he does have alot of good points and most of what he said beyond the rage is true.There are little "in" groups. People like players they are comfortable with and who understand what is expected of them. I've seen level 50 players that can't even lead the dam tower! Come on hehe. I know there are some dam good players that are avoided because people haven't really given them the chance to show they do know what they're doing. Good thing there are people like me that invite them so they can show their stuff huh? Anyways not to drift off the subject........
Just Mouthing Off!
Kybrell :=)

[Vipplin]

I agree that if someone has been along into a zone many times and gotten nothing, it is cool to give them a better chance at something. I didn't discuss that in my earlier post and Touk's post reminded me that I like it. I also kinda like the hand-down idea that improves more than one person, assuming it really does benefit them all.

Here's another idea - heavens, there are infinite possibilities... but how about, in a bid/random split giving the leader and MVP an extra bid? The group votes for the MVP

This is all great discussion for me, I'm going to see about leading Vault sometime in the next week and have been considering good ways to split EQ (assuming I'm successful at all! ). Definitely a sensitive issue.

Vadian

[Galok Icewolf]

I won't ever be doing bids. I did it in the beginning and won't do it again. I've too often seen a person win the best item for their first time there or a person win their 3rd or 4th item... while someone has just lost for their 5th time and hasn't got anything.

I use gsay to convey a point to the entire group at a time. Its much more convient, and makes it so I dont have to send 14 tells. What I said wasn't directed at you kybrell, it was meant for the entire group to hear. I had gotten 3 tells asking to bid on so and so item, so I gsaid that i dont bid, i do handouts.

I won't be claiming a item before a zone, because often times when i do a zone, i decide at the last minute if i want something. I base this off if someone else deserves it, or i did a shitty job leading or if my eq is lacking. Sometimes i'll feel bad so the item i was thinking about getting for myself, ill feel bad and give it to someone else.

That's just my view. The way I'm able to get things done. I'm sorry if someone dosen't like it, but I try to do my best.

[Mplor]

For further reading on this subject, check out these threads:

<a href=http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000234.html>This one</a>

<a href=http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000553.html>and this one.</a>


[This message has been edited by Mplor (edited 12-06-2001).]

[Gort]

My personal feeling,

I like the way Touk describes it best, but agree that if you don't like the way a leader splits equ, you have every right not to group with them in zoning again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me kind of thing. If you continue to follow them, and disagree after talking to them about it, you have the right to not follow them in the future, anything else is your own fault.


Toplack

[Kuurg]

Kuurg weighs in with his opinion...

I don't like handouts. I never have, unless I was the person benefitting from it (I think that's how most of us feel.)

Having said that, I've got to say that Touk's method satisfies the most people. Handouts coupled with Hand-me-downs is always nice, especially when it turns a 6 or 7 item split into new eq for about 10 or 11 people.

I prefer bids, but am not averse to 'biased' bids. You will run into the situation where someone has been with you in a zone several times and always bid on the same item, never winning. By all means, they should get an extra bid or three.

These are just my preferences. I will however zone with people who use any of these methods, provided they're done fairly.

It is the leader's responsibility to say 'such and such an item is reserved for myself or another' PRIOR to doing the zone.
Very not cool to go expecting to have a bid on an item only to find out afterwards that it was reserved.

------------------
·Kuurg·



[This message has been edited by Kuurg (edited 12-06-2001).]

[Grintor]

there is no perfect bidding system. bidding can't be rigged anymore really, but is so random and bids are ALWAYS open, means anyone can bid on anything.

handouts are crap too, cause the same peeps get the same shit day in and day out or they get shit for their alts, when there is someone in the group who did a good job who could really use that item. half the time in this instance the item is not even particularly spanky.


i feel that the most fair system is a restricted bidding system. basically warriors have first dib on warrior items, casters have first dibs on caster items, etc. if you already have it for that class you really shouldnt bid it again unless it's a ring or something that you can wear two of.

if everyone of that class has that particular item, then it's open.

nothing irks a warrior more than an invoker winning or being handed flammey, and nothing irks a caster more than a rogue being handed ring of elemental control.

then again, as with the rare discussion a few weeks ago, there are more middle aged ten year olds in this game who say they are here for the roleplay environment yet must have two of everything than not.

nuff said.

[Todrael]

I've been very lucky to receive quite a bit of good eq while zoning. I now have near to a perfect caster set, discounting eq that we haven't discovered yet. This means that every time I zone, there isn't anything that I need. Every time. Does this mean, then, that I shall never receive another piece of eq? I certainly hope not. I zone for the fun of it more than the eq, but it is nice to have a tangible benefit to my hours of dedication to getting others eq. If this means picking up something I don't 'need', then those in the group will have to live with it.

We did jot once, and I bid on one of the two nightshades (crashed right after we got the first). I happened to get it, since we had a ton of eq to split. Someone else in the group needed it, I didn't. Someone told me to give it to that person. I told them only if they had half my playing time. They had less than a fourth. Not all of my ptime is zoning, but it's a good bet if there's a zone group around, I'm in it. Just because I don't 'need' it doesn't mean that I'm not as deserving of it.

In short, there's no good way to split eq. Someone will always be mad. Part of being a true leader is having a thick enough skin to be able to take the whining and gripes from the people who don't like the way you do things. That's one reason I don't lead.

-Todrael

[Wargo]

EQ heh who cares. It's not that little trinkets aren't fun to get after zoning but a lot of your char is based on your skills and not equipment. And if you are skilled enough, you will be zoning lots and getting lots of loot regardless of the system. Especially if you are on the evil side, you WILL get what you want/need as long you are active in the mainstrem. Heh many times after jot, I asked for the deva cloak just because almost no one would want it so I feel good getting something and not piss people off cuz i'm already decked =P Also, if you want something real bad, try letting your leader know that you are willing to trade in your old gear. For example, if you are wearing amethyst ring and really want the eldritch ring that the group just got, trade it in. I'm sure one of the warriors in groups would love to know that.

Yssilk
To receive, first you must give.
Before receiving, ask yourself if you have given enough.

[Sarell]

Solution for Evil!

Next time you guys do purple patch, give it to Sarell, that way everyone ni the group will be equally pissed and all will be fair

...np *hug*