Remove silence person spell

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Dalar
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Remove silence person spell

Postby Dalar » Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:44 pm

The spell has made sojourn3 way too easy. We already have stun, quake, etc. If we could have a spell to prevent mobs from wording I think it would balance out.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Corth » Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:00 pm

Hrmm..

This would make demon casters very rough. Especially... demon casters with sandstorm. Ugh.

This would make players die quicker. It would mean that you would have even more incentive to take a bunch of nukers to the zone because you need to kill quick or you lose. It would just make fights shorter and more mindless. Exactly the opposite of what should be happening.


Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:37 pm

Corth wrote:Hrmm..

This would make demon casters very rough. Especially... demon casters with sandstorm. Ugh.

This would make players die quicker. It would mean that you would have even more incentive to take a bunch of nukers to the zone because you need to kill quick or you lose. It would just make fights shorter and more mindless. Exactly the opposite of what should be happening.


Corth

demons SHOULD be hard. if it makes demon casters hard then balance them :P
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Re: Remove silence person spell

Postby Baikalisan » Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:30 pm

Dalar wrote:The spell has made sojourn3 way too easy. We already have stun, quake, etc. If we could have a spell to prevent mobs from wording I think it would balance out.



We have a spell to prevent mobs from wording!

**Drumroll**

Silence Person.

Tho i wouldnt be adverse to changing it back to how it was and making it just Silence. Where when you cast it everything is silenced, including group members. :wink:
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Postby Llaaldara » Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:01 pm

This might not make sense in terms of realism, but it sure would make things interesting in battle!

Don't touch Silence Person.
Add a new ability for all classes, with casters having highest max skill cap. Dispel Silence. This would be a hand gesture spell, no chanting. Not sure if spell code could handle that now so might need to just be a skill with a really long cast/use time

It would be interesting to see mobs who were silenced suddently casting again later in the battle.

Silence person does make zones cake-walk. Not doable, but a cake-walk. It's either toast the zone by silencing all the casters, or it's get Mori-fied over and over. There is no middle ground atm. It's my intention that a spell/ability that lets mobs get back into the fight a little later, to bring back some of this middle ground grey area - are we gonna live or die excitement.

Btw, why don't all mob rock elementals come with a standard special proc of earthquake? Or mob earth elementals have a room bash proc where they knock everyone over with a tidal wave? etc?

-LL :shock:
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Postby Corth » Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:55 pm

Or they could also make silence person have a very random duration. like.. between 20 seconds and 3 minutes.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Dalar » Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:12 am

Llaaldara wrote:This might not make sense in terms of realism, but it sure would make things interesting in battle!

Don't touch Silence Person.
Add a new ability for all classes, with casters having highest max skill cap. Dispel Silence. This would be a hand gesture spell, no chanting. Not sure if spell code could handle that now so might need to just be a skill with a really long cast/use time

It would be interesting to see mobs who were silenced suddently casting again later in the battle.

Silence person does make zones cake-walk. Not doable, but a cake-walk. It's either toast the zone by silencing all the casters, or it's get Mori-fied over and over. There is no middle ground atm. It's my intention that a spell/ability that lets mobs get back into the fight a little later, to bring back some of this middle ground grey area - are we gonna live or die excitement.

Btw, why don't all mob rock elementals come with a standard special proc of earthquake? Or mob earth elementals have a room bash proc where they knock everyone over with a tidal wave? etc?

-LL :shock:


the wave handing gesture is just ANOTHER upgrade players keep asking for. is this mud suppose to be hella easy? there is a middle ground to not silencing mobs. it's called fighting them and taking areas. have you ever done a dragon before? having a random duration for silence duration still doesn't change the fact that you disable a mob when he's silenced (unless it's a proc mob)
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Corth » Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:43 am

So Dalar, are you suggesting we reduce combat to a simple formula of who can do a sufficient amount of damage first to kill the other side? Why not get rid of all the other tactical spells while we're at it and we can all stand there nuking each other til one of us wins?
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Dalar » Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:58 am

Corth wrote:So Dalar, are you suggesting we reduce combat to a simple formula of who can do a sufficient amount of damage first to kill the other side? Why not get rid of all the other tactical spells while we're at it and we can all stand there nuking each other til one of us wins?


this doesn't make fights "who can kill the other side first". there are other things such as survival and tactics.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Corth » Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:21 am

Nods, Dart, I was exagerating. I dont think taking out that one spell would make combat meaningless. I think however that rather than make a change which would create an incentive to bring more damage in your group, they should make a change which decreases PC damage capabilities. Thats where the real problem lies..
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby rylan » Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:15 pm

Speaking only from the point of view as a cleric, I would see this as a massive downgrade to my class. It would remove the few mobs I can solo for fun, and make me a 100% one trick pony.. full heal and thats it. At least invokers, while arguable a one trick pony, have differant spells. Clerics would be stuck with full heal in fights, and be standing around scratching our asses most of the time.
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Feb 19, 2003 3:47 pm

rylan wrote:Speaking only from the point of view as a cleric, I would see this as a massive downgrade to my class. It would remove the few mobs I can solo for fun, and make me a 100% one trick pony.. full heal and thats it. At least invokers, while arguable a one trick pony, have differant spells. Clerics would be stuck with full heal in fights, and be standing around scratching our asses most of the time.


Hey this spell does damage! Hey my other invoker spell does damage. Hey guess what ths one does? Damage!

The side effects that some of our spells does NOT constitute being one of our 'tricks' to the class. They are random bonus extras. Not class defining abilities you bring to the table to zone. When I build a zonegroup where we are gonna fight !bash wraiths, I don't do a who voker cuz I want them for silence. :wink:

Vokers are a one trick poney. We nuke. The end. And I love every second of it! :shock: :D

The more 'tricks' you try and give your class, the less powerful and important to a group they are gonna have to be for the sake of balance. :P

Hey Corth! I like your random duration idea! :twisted: That could work!

Be nice to know when the duration ran out tho besides incoming spells. Maybe? :wink:

Ps. I fight dragons all the freaking time. You should see Sesexe's ptime as compared to her prestigue. Jeez :roll:

-LL
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Postby moritheil » Thu Feb 20, 2003 3:23 pm

Dalar wrote:
Corth wrote:So Dalar, are you suggesting we reduce combat to a simple formula of who can do a sufficient amount of damage first to kill the other side? Why not get rid of all the other tactical spells while we're at it and we can all stand there nuking each other til one of us wins?


this doesn't make fights "who can kill the other side first". there are other things such as survival and tactics.


There are? :shock:

:wink: I'm in support of Dalar's proposal. Oh, and remove all stone-type spells while we're at it, too, pls.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:04 pm

I would actually like to see it go back to silence room or not at all. It would make things hard, but not overly hard. I have been in many fights where silence didn't land, but because I was with good players we all lived. It would become an incentive for people to actually learn their class and pay attention in zones again, cuz i'll tell you, I really don't anymore.
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Postby Birile » Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:11 pm

Forgive me, but wouldn't silence room effectively keep all mages, clerics and singers from performing during the fight? Unless you give them all some kind of breath attack proc upon silence... this seems rather boring for those types. I wasn't around when silence room was in effect (or I was too small to have experienced it) so I don't know if that's truly the case.
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Postby thanuk » Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:23 pm

Birile wrote:Forgive me, but wouldn't silence room effectively keep all mages, clerics and singers from performing during the fight? Unless you give them all some kind of breath attack proc upon silence... this seems rather boring for those types. I wasn't around when silence room was in effect (or I was too small to have experienced it) so I don't know if that's truly the case.


Yes. Basically when you silenced a room you were saying, "My melee can smack the shit out of you faster than you can smack the shit out of them". It was rather effective actually, but that was back when melee actually did damage. If we attempted this in the current game, we would all be horribly slaughtered in seconds.

Im sure it was boring for mage classes to do this, but it didn't really come up too often. Basically you silenced the room, killed the nobash caster, and then ran away, so you could fight the remaining mobs with spells being cast. It was somewhat risky so it only happened in certain situations.


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Postby Corth » Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:38 pm

Silence room was by far the lamest thing about toril. The second lamest thing was the 30 second mem penalty. Removing those two gave casters a huge upgrade (even before new and improved spells were doled out). And no Xisiqomelir, it would not be necessary to add silence room if silence person were taken out. For the record, however, I am against removing silence person...

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:19 pm

Corth wrote: And no Xisiqomelir, it would not be necessary to add silence room if silence person were taken out.
Corth


Emphasis added on the complex words! Please stop saying that I said it would be necessary to bring room silence back, because I never said anything of the sort.

Xisiqomelir wrote:If silence person were removed, the gods could either yank it without compensation or they could put back room silence.
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"

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Postby Waelos » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:15 am

Idea:

Have silence person significantly increase chant times on mob spells.

Not sure why this might be good. but it seems good now.

Lost
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Postby Corth » Fri Feb 21, 2003 1:06 am

Xis,

I stand by the the fact that you would assume someone might seriously consider bringing back room silence. That in itself say something...

BTW, what about the third (and most likely) option should the gods ever decide to remove targetted silence: giving some other form of compensation?

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby Dalar » Fri Feb 21, 2003 1:46 am

Corth wrote:Xis,

I stand by the the fact that you would assume someone might seriously consider bringing back room silence. That in itself say something...

BTW, what about the third (and most likely) option should the gods ever decide to remove targetted silence: giving some other form of compensation?

Corth


Well why do people silence?
1) to stop getting pwned by nukes
2) to prevent mobs from wording

reduce area damage on some spells done by mobs and compensate number 2 with a room spell that prevents wording/teleporting
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby old depok » Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:06 pm

If the gods remove silence person and add room silence my Shaman would like the following compensation (my own personal top ten list)...

10. Ability to multi class with a rogue so I can do something other than stand there looking pretty with a big switch target on me.

9. Dual wield and double attack (don't need if I can multi with a rogue).

8. A really high (200+) bandage skill.

7. Ability to drag morted group members (drag all.dead tanks e).

6. Escape/hide/sneak. Gonna need this when the tanks die in the first round. Oh get rid of that annoying lag on the hide and sneak skills for me as well please.

5. Camoflage. Gonna need it when those pesky tracking mobs start to search me out.

4. Moonwell (i will need to well back all those dead people)

3. Ressurection. may as well give it to all classes cause we are going to need it.

2. Group spirit call. makes it so corpses of your group are magically teleported to your location as opposed to your going to them (shiver).

and the Number one skill I would like to receive as compensation should room silence get implemented is....

1. Wood carving ability so I can whittle while I watch the mellee types work.

Thank you!

depok
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Postby Corth » Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:12 pm

laugh.. nice post.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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