Who wants kits?

Archive of the Sojourn3 Ideas Forum.
Yasden
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Who wants kits?

Postby Yasden » Sun Feb 25, 2001 3:48 am

Well after writing my last post about questing to become a monk, Agreiver and I were talking and he thought I was onto something.

So basically I came up with this...putting in a few specialty kits for classes who would like to quest for something better, or maybe they are bored and have done every zone 100 times already?

Not much would have to be done in order for this to happen, I don't think. Here's a few kits I managed to think of, since I don't have my books with me and I haven't played AD&D in years.

50th Human Warrior --> 25th Monk after questing, given all previous Monk skills (hopefully with improved springleap [obtained at 40th] and dragonpunch[preexisting at 25th]), perhaps introduce something like footsweep (35th) that works only on mobiles between 5-7' tall, make all offensive chants (death grip at 40th, soul strike at 45th) do a little more damage, as well as bring back ability to chant once per mud hour.

50th (Any Race) Conjurer --> 26th Elementalist after questing, spec. conjure, ability to summon much larger elementals of choice, ability to release them at will without having to dispel magic, maybe given a couple extra spells (at 46th) from Invoker or Enchanter list (one or two of their 7th or 8th circle spells)?

50th Human Paladin --> 25th Crusader after questing, ability to summon multiple mounts, bonuses to exp and all paladin-based spells (armor, heal, bless), layhands amount increased, base mvs increase, offense and all 2h weapon skills maxed out. Given word of recall at 46th.

50th Barbarian Warrior --> 25th Weaponmaster after questing, all weapon skills maxed out, ability to wield some lighter 2h weapons as 1h (at 40th), offense maxed out, natural strength and dexterity increased to 100. Ability to wield any kind of weapon, no matter the class restriction.

50th Dwarf Warrior --> 25th Battlerager after questing, +3/3 hit/dam natural, dual wield maxed, ability to attack 6x a round dualing (at 40th), 4x a round with 2h (at 40th), cannot use shield whatsoever, must wear full-body spiked and/or razored armor.

50th (Any Race) Bard --> 26th Illusionist(?) after questing, given illusion spellcasting abilities while still maintaining all barding capabilities. 1 Illusionary spell granted for each circle, making a total of 5. One or two new songs are learned (at 45th), dealing with confusing an enemy, creating clones, or something of the like.

Just a few of my brainstorming ideas, let me know what you all think!

Yasmonkey
Wargo
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Postby Wargo » Sun Feb 25, 2001 4:20 am

Interesting idea...although I think level should only be set to 46 like how lich works. They should only gain a few new skills that will by no means unbalancing.

Paladin -> Crusader - gains minor cleric spells like heal or something

Warrior -> Berserker - gains self-induced rage ability, or
Warrior -> Monk - gains barehand attack ability

Anti -> Shadow Knight - gains minor necro spells like vampiric touch or something

Ranger -> Archer - gains enhanced range attack damage and minor druid spells

Heheh, something like that. I think every class should have a chance to quest for an enhanced version. Kudos to Yasden for his idea.

Wargo Shadowhawk
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:28 am

This idea was tossed around sos for a long time. The staff basically said no way except for the lich quest all classes stay the same.
If you really do get bored with the MUD and have done everything 100 times then why not just level up a new character instead of making your current one beefier.
There is just so much to do in Sojourn that I find it pretty far fetched that you run out of things to do. Switch sides of the racewar, learn new quests, write a zone, form a guild, write a story or have big roleplay scenarios, level a new class, map out stuff, try to become waelos jr., hit on female characters only to find out they are guys in rl (*ducks from varia and ilshad), Try to conquer zones new ways or with ultra small groups, teach newbies, play with trade, fight in the incoming arena, max out your odd skills...hope i made my point by now.
Yeah I'm opposed to the idea of ascension or multiclassing, tough crap!

Gormal
Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Sun Feb 25, 2001 8:23 am

If your thinkin of those Kits then think on putting Assassin kit in to. heh wouldnt be fair for certain classes to have kits or quests while others have none

Nilan
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Sun Feb 25, 2001 10:11 am

Assassin 50th ----> Level 25 Ranger

Drive some justice into those villainous scum!

- Ragorn
Fezbozz
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Postby Fezbozz » Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:05 pm

I always wondered why the most powerful class in the game got to become even more powerful with a lich quest. Yet no one else got one. I guess I really don't think any one should get one really.Necros are already to powerful. I think necros pets should be toned down and they should maybe gain some other spells to make them more useful. Some of the stuff my nephew could solo with his necro is just silly. No class should be able to do that. I just think that each class should gain a little something at maybe level 50 not a kit or anything like that but maybe some skill or one new spell just for a little reward for getting there maybe even just a title would be cool. Like say a level 50 Paladin would become Sir Nilan or something (hehe could you imagine that). Don't get me wrong I think Lich is pretty cool. I just think maybe a little reward of some sort would be cool when each class gets to 50.
Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Sun Feb 25, 2001 8:15 pm

Fezbozz, since the gods are shifting things towards PC tanking, pets are gonna have to be downgraded so I think it's pretty safe to say that necros won't be able to solo so much stuff as easily.

In any case though, this is an argument I remember from the old Toril BBS and I have to agree with keeping class change quests to a minimum. It's something that just really suits a necromancer better than any other class, literally changing what you are into what you've studied for so long, becoming undead yourself. That carried penalties as well as benefits since no city liked having undead roaming around, you only could group with evil aligned PCs, spells that had additional effects against undead were more dangerous to you, and there were also different racial stat modifiers for being undead. I think everyone can agree that the benefits you gained were definately worth the penalties, but those penalties show that it wasn't just a simple class change and new spells, the lich transformation was something more involved. Most of the ideas for new class change quests are things that probably could be done just by adding in new skills that you might need to quest for. It might not look as cool as having some other new and shiny class title by your name, but I think that the class/race change quest is really something that should be limited to necros for atmosphere. That and I don't really care much for muds with remort classes which is what most of the proposed new class changes sound like.

[This message has been edited by Treladian (edited 02-25-2001).]
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Sun Feb 25, 2001 9:02 pm

Yes Liches were insanely powerful. Do you know what's required in the lich quest though aside from even being level 50? Its not just some piddly items. The quest also isn't really known by that many people that _play_ necros.
Also, necro wasnt "the most powerful class" nessecarily. Personally I'd say that enchanters owned necros for potential to own shit.
All this "my class isn't as powerful as his class" crap is stupid anyway. If you want a level 50 class upgrade then play necro. Otherwise suck it up and play the class you want to play. Once you'd get your upgraded crusader, or avatar cleric or whatever then where would you be? An even beefier character whining maybe a month later that NOW you have nowhere else to go. Come on, get real.

Gormal -The Content-
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Sun Feb 25, 2001 9:22 pm

Yeah. Class/race changes 'cept for lich suck. 'Nuff said.
agreiver
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Postby agreiver » Mon Feb 26, 2001 2:13 am

I was thinking this is an awesome idea. Besides lending some more variety to the mud in terms of classes, group structure etc, its a cool idea for something to strive towards once you hit level 50. I mean once you hit level 50 your only goal is to get better equipment and kill the next mob.

Kits would help with better roleplaying because its just not a goal of getting more items. You would have to give up your level 50 status, and the idea is start again at level 25. Of course, it would be much harder to get level 50 with a kit class. MUCH harder. In addition, it would be hard as hell to become a kit. You could have to complete a really hard quest involving a lot of rare load items/characters. It would be fun and something to do besides looking for more equipment.

I believe this is a good idea to consider. Being so much work is being done to totally remake the mud, the mud would be even more original and seem much different with kit classes put in.
Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Mon Feb 26, 2001 3:53 am

Kits would not make the mud more unique. Ever hear of remort classes on other muds? Certain classes are only available once you hit the maximum level and choose to basically reincarnate yourself into a new class (and sometimes race) at a much lower level. You then go through the whole process over again, gaining some benefits from all the time you already spent (it varies from mud to mud. One mud I was on for a little while increased the damage you dealt if you had remorted). It's something that just seems cheesy to me because in order to make those classes worth playing through all the way to high levels again they need to be very powerful, which leads to unbalance when there are so many faerie ninjas, lizardmen templars, or whatever running around cause remorting is availble to every class. The lich transformation avoids this trap by only being available to one class, being hard as hell to accomplish, and only setting the lich four levels back so they won't be getting exponentially more powerful over 20 or so levels. Sojourn's classes are interesting enough as it is IMO without having to resort to cheesy things like remort classes.
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:01 am

Treladian: Amen.

And thank God we don't have tons of faerie ninja's all over sojourn...one saitcho is MORE than enough for us to deal with.
Fezbozz
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Postby Fezbozz » Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:58 pm

I do agree remorting is not something I would like to see. I just wish ya got something at 50 not a new race or class just maybe one new skill or one new spell or something. A person getting to 50 should truly mean something big. Liches are not only necromancers in dungeons and dragons so I don't really think it fits the flavor of a necromancer. Any powerful mage can become a Lich. Heck there are even priestly liches and Mentalist Liches. I do agree however that kits are just remorts in disguise and I do think Liches are cool on the mud but yes the quest is hard but once one person knows it the next person to do it knows how mysteriously as well.
Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:32 pm

Hear, hear, Fezz. I agree 1000%... Every class should get something new at level 50. I'm not sure on what, but I agree remorting would probably be a bad idea. Skills would be cool.. Though, my playing an enchanter and all, I would love to see a single 11th circle spell, nofail 10th circles, and perhaps additional spell slots, at level 50. Not more hps, or whatnot, just stuff to make the class more versatile.. And I think most casters would agree. Image

Just ideas.. Hope the admins peep at this, because Fezz hit the core of the issue.
Blung
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Postby Blung » Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:01 pm

Instead of creating all the new classes. How about just obtaining higher skill or skills through quests. Each class have its own unique skill or skills to be obtain through quest. You can add criteria such as: Need to be level 50 before questing. Once the quest is successful completed, player lost 15 levels, exp require to level is double/triple, chances to resurrect is less, etc...
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:49 pm

Set back to level 35, *double* or even *triple* xp, low chance of ress?

Hell you can count me out of that quest.
Yasden
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Postby Yasden » Mon Feb 26, 2001 11:39 pm

Ok, looks like I forgot to post one important bit of info. Hitpoints wouldn't remain at 50th level hps with the downgrade, they would go back to what they were at 30th or 25th.

And btw I think remorting is lame as hell too. I'm not just saying "ok I'm bored I think I'll become a wild-elf cavalier," that's lame. What I'm saying is basically do the quest, class name changes, gain a few new skills as you relevel back up. That's all.

And just for Nilan....

50th level Assassin --> 25th level Ninja! :P
(your kung fu is still pig dung!)

Yasden
izarek
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Postby izarek » Tue Feb 27, 2001 12:10 am

Random rants and comments:

remort: ugh! yuck!

50th lvl kits for everyone: I think some kind of reward at lvl 50 for each class would be nice. There has to be some goal at the top! In most cases this should be a single skill or spell. Something nice, but minor with respect to the class as a whole. However, I think that certain classes should get something on par with the necro's lich. These classes are selected based on their rarity/difficulty to attain high lvls:

Druid: Grand druid or Elemental druid. In 2nd edition, high lvl druids got some spanky skills? What was it? Being able to transform into elementals and being immune to elemental (fire, etc) dmg? I don't have my books with me atm, but it was something like that. Gotta have something to reward the few, the proud, the wellers!

Bards: Master bard. Gawd, I have no idea what to suggest here as I've never even played one. Whatever it is, it should be useful in zoning. Maybe the 'song of rage' thing suggested by Caedym in the 'bard fixes & ideas' post. Or some nice enhancements/bonuses for all of their songs upon reaching lvl 50 (like those listed in 'bard fixes & ideas'). However, they desperately need some kind of reward for playing a class that has little to offer at high lvls besides rp.

Anti-pally: Death knight. Duh. What A/P doesn't want that?

Paladins (mebbe): that griffon/hippogriff/pegasus thingie they're all wanting.

Izzy

[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 02-26-2001).]
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Tue Feb 27, 2001 2:50 am

I'm not sure if it has been changed but Sojourn code used to have a limited number of classes availible. Rogues and mercs die..incoming enchanters and invokers and illusionsts! Someone with access to the code wanna fill me in if this has been changed? Just another reason why class change wouldn't happen possibly...dunno!
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Postby Rhelath » Sat Mar 03, 2001 7:56 am

Just thought i'd chime in with something for bards at level 50.

50th Bard -> Turn into a Bladesinger!
Anyway, there's my nonsense.
-Rhel.

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