New fighter classes?

[Zhadrak/Dharag]

I would like to see some new fighter classes, altough they are not needed but it would be cool to have some more choices of sub classes of a fighter. there arent many around at the moment and a few more would add some uniqe feeling to playing a fighter.
Pherhaps some kind of warrior with limited self only spells or skills that raises some of their abilities.

there are tons of caster classes to choose from so they have atleast a feeling of uniqeness to them

well well, just me ramblin on.

see ya guys when the mud opens

[cherzra]

Hmm, let me play devil's advocate a minute..


We have rough brawn, the meatshields known as warriors...

Then we have antis and paladins, who get spells and can do a great deal of damage with their weapons and hitroll bonus...

There are also ranger, doing even more damage, with some spells as well.

On the border are rogues, who do lots of damage in addition to having unique skills.

I'm wondering what classes you are thinking of? Monks and berserkers won't be back... ninja and consorts are out of the question...

Personally I always liked the mercenary class.

[Zhadrak/Dharag]

yeah i know of all of those, have played most of them also, only warrior to 50th level tho. the others around 20-35th

merc were cool but if i remember right their offense skill sucked so ya needed tons of hitroll to actually hit something.

and i would never suggest anything silly as ninjas.

was thinkin more like:

Battleragers (altough those would prolly look to much like old berserkers so wouldnt count on em)

Swashbucklers (rogue/figther combo, not like merc)

something like that anyways. just tought this would be cool so we dont just get a bunch of warriors.

hehe, im just frankly bored at the fighter classes that exist at the moment but i just tought it would be a cool idea with more choices

[cherzra]

Heh from what I've been reading lately, better go play a rogue or an anti, warriors will just need to go -100 and as much hp as possible, therefor being nothing but boring flesh-elementals in the place of old conjurer mentals.

[Zhadrak/Dharag]

heh, yah.. will prolly play an shaman if nothing changes to warrior classes. no fun just being an big old meatshield.

[Yayaril]

Flesh elementals? I like the sound of that.


A plainsman barely hits you!

Cherzra says, 'I must assist my master!'
Cherzra heroically rescues you!

Yayaril

[Ruhr]

Yah, I'm not too keen on the fleshmental thing either; especially when I remember how fun toril warriors were to play, so I'll probably play a paladin this time around.

[This message has been edited by Ruhr (edited 03-22-2001).]

[Ragorn]

Fleshmental is another word for tank, which is what warriors are 100% designed to be. If you don't want to be a tank, I don't understand why you would play a warrior. Tanks will be balanced, we as mudders will survive the thing we've been trying to avoid for 7 years: PC tanking.

- Ragorn

[santego]

You know, there's something pretty dern heroic about "flesh elementals" (pc tanks). I mean, imagine being able to say, "I tunk 1/2 of the tiamat fight..." or whatever. Also, standing in the front of some hard core mobs and watching your hp go from 800 to 100, 800 to 100, 800 to 100, over and over has to be pretty nerve racking. I remember when Ranon was always tanking...I was like, "Ranon rules!". I also remember as an assassin I'd always try to be a tank *blush*. I felt pretty dern cool when I didn't die. So to sum up: pc tanks are ADMIRABLE.

[Tilandal]

We realy dont need another fighter class.
So far there are:

Warrior
Ranger
Pallie
Anti
Rogue

Then there are the Mage classes:

Enchanter
Invoker
Illusionist
Conjurer
Necromancer
Psiconist (sort of)

Then the healers:

Cleric
Shaman
Druid

and finnaly:

Bards (sort of a utility class)

So we have lots of fighters and mages. If any new class is coming it should be a healer. I remember there was always a lack of lvl 26-40 healers for mid-level groups. This was realy the time when a healer becomes an absolute necessity and it sucked to have a group ready to go only to have your healer leave and not be able to find another. That was pretty much the end of the group.

[Ruhr]

Ragorn wrote:

Fleshmental is another word for tank, which is what warriors are 100% designed to be. If you don't want to be a tank, I don't understand why you would play a warrior.

Umm, warriors have always been PC tanks bud, the point is to bring attention to the fact that we'd like to do some damage also and have decent AC/HP.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand, or why warriors should be exempt from the right to express their opinions.


[This message has been edited by Ruhr (edited 03-19-2001).]

[Koric]

I for one am excited about these new changes. Yes the stress on pctanking has increased but that's a good thing for us warriors. The pressure to want to go AC mode will of course be greater now with the stress on pctanking. I believe even with some decent AC (-50+bark+armor) our damage output would still be on par with rangers/rogues. All that has really happened here is the utility of warriors has increased even more than its previous sufficient state and this will eventually lead to variety in what the level 50's look like.

blah I don't think I really accomplished anything on this post cuz i just woke up from a nap and yeah blabbing.. if anything just take this post as support for the new changes 8)

[Wargo]

I don't see the problem with AC/Hit/Dam/HP. As I recall, my warrior back in the days of Toril had 973 hp (in hp gear) with -100ac (with armor and barkskin) and still maintained a 24/35 hit/dam. Granted, weapons were downgraded but I don't recall any AC downgrades. If that's the case then I think warriors will be a great class to play: an intelligent mental that will rescue without order and still hit like an one-armed ranger

Wargo who has been enlightened by the ways of magics this time around.

[cherzra]

You said it right.... "back in the days of Toril "

Last wipe 25/33/no hp gear/-50 was the norm.

[Ragorn]

To give you guys a comparison, my Ranger was 29/32 with -32. Oh, and I had 487 hit points. On Sojourn last wipe, Warrior THAC0 was so much higher than Rangers/Rogues that you guys could pump damage where we had to spend slots on hitroll. That's changed now, the THAC0 bonuses between classes is beginning to even out a little.

Matematically speaking, Warriors already keep par with Rangers for sheer damage output. Most good 2h weapons were 8d4, where most 1h weapons were 3d4. Generally speaking, the procs on 2h weapons were stronger than 1h procs. The best 1h proc I knew was Windsong itself, and even the blur proc paled in comparison to Enchanted Gythka, Twilight, and Ambran.

We'd all like to do damage, Ruhr, and we'd all like to have good AC and HP. The problem is, sometimes you have to pick one or the other, and that's what makes the mud fun.

- Ragorn

[Waelos]

Keep the warrior down! *giggle* I completely understand Ruhr. You're concerned about the class you love. I think we all would have reactions similar to yours =) Wait til the conjie changes! I think we're trying to, in our own limited capacities, assauge your fears. Really, I think warriors are gonna be just as beat ass as they always were. This is only based on my expereince so far. So, I hope we helped. In the end, you'll be able to get and give full testing/feedback on your warrior =) Peace!

Lost

[Kyos]

Does this mean ogres are FUBAR?

They sucked so hard when i used to play songor. Did almost no damage and tanked worse than a sorcerer. Their ac stinked totally.

[moritheil]

ogres have been kinda screwy for a while now... I personally think they should be given a huge boost to Con.

Tilandal:
IMHO, some of the reason groups lacked healers was 1)worshipping the almighty damage dealer and 2)not accepting anything less than a cleric. I'd get screwed out of groups back in the day for lack of having the same spells clerics had (clerics always get 'em 1 circle earlier) and thus, the group would argue, less utility. Nevermind that they all went merrily to their doom when a well-placed sunray or two would have saved them. :P

Of course, I expect there to be newfound popularity now with the semihealers, as I like to call them [Druids were usually just a utility class; shamans were to heal but also tank].

[cherzra]

Ogres are far from useless... their bash , hp and str-based hit/damroll rules.

I would however still like to see them be able to wield a 2hnder and a shield. Note: NOT a 2hnder and a 2hnder, not a 2hnder and a 1hnder, just a 2hnder and a shield. Perhaps make it so the shield can be no heavier than wt 15, so they won't be wearing the spankiest shields, but a frostmaiden for example.

[Trogar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ragorn:
The best 1h proc I knew was Windsong itself, and even the blur proc paled in comparison to Enchanted Gythka, Twilight, and Ambran.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree Rags. I always thought the best weapon attainable in the game was windsong. Blur was really strong, those were strong weapons. Proc weapons like say a fireball don't do damage to all mobs.

And personally, I think Twilights were crap. They arn't nearly as powerful as people think they are. They don't proc enough. I shouldn't say they are crap - they arn't. But they were never almighty.

I never liked Ambran either. I dunno if they changed it on soj2, but that random stone thing sucked. And holy word is only really good in Cave City.

Gythka was neat.

Tro

[Galok Icewolf]

Ambran dosent proc holy word.. only dispel evil...

Twilight was good, but didnt proc enough, and the proc lasted like 2 rounds..

Gythka was nice as long as you were attacking something that wasn't immune to poison or major para...

Windsong didnt proc alot, but its affects were pretty much guarenteed, you were going to do extra damage, and you could affect _how_ much extra damage you did.. 30 dam roll 3d4 weapon.. or 32 damn and 4d4 weapon.. it was possible to affect the outcome..

Which is the reason why windsong was slightly harder in my opinion.

Hell.. I wasn't a ranger though, It just looked damn cool seeing:

Ragorn barely slashes a black wizard.
Ragorn barely slashes a black wizard.
Ragorn barely slashes a black wizard.
Ragorn barely slashes a black wizard.
Ragorn barely slashes a black wizard.
Ragorn barely slashes a black wizard.
Ragorn barely slashes a black wizard.
Ragorn barely slashes a black wizard.
Ragorn barely slashes a black wizard.
Ragorn barely slashes a black wizard.
You miss your hit at a black wizard.
Gormal barely slashes a black wizard.
Gormal barely slashes a black wizard.
A black wizard barely hits Gormal.
A black wizard barely hits Gormal.