I know this would require a lot of effort from area guys, but I think it might be the best bet.
Insert a flag on an item, I don't care what you call it, that restricts particular items in that you can only own two of them at any one time. This might prevent some of the twinking. It's not a perfect solution, but nothing is.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
A possible solution to twinking.
That's the point. Looter won't be able to loot more than 2. 
2 max. So sorry. If you want more, guess yer outta luck.
I only foresee this affecting eq hunters, honestly. In a group, various folks can grab an item.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
2 max. So sorry. If you want more, guess yer outta luck.
I only foresee this affecting eq hunters, honestly. In a group, various folks can grab an item.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
Both ideas are very good. I have actually stopped trying to get these hot commodities right now because I feel in due time, it will be a thing of the past once everyone gets the eq they desire. And once those sought after hot items cool off in WD. So all you mad dashers, go ahead and run and get the eq while its hot, me? I'm gonna concetrated on my main goal, Moonwell!
Kelsi
Kelsi
Well as long as someone doesn't camp on eq, everything is allowed.... if he gets there before you every boot, I agree it's lame, but it's within the rules. I don't see why things have to be specially coded to load delayed, or so you can only have 1 of each item, etc. If you can only have 1, it will only entice people to store that item, then go do it. Delayed loads mean a ridiculous advantage to people with clair, or a network of friends. The way it is currently is o.k. with me.
Agree Sarvis. That would stop the twinking and would be the best solution. This allows the mud to populate eq even after it's up for an extended period of time and would eliminate boot twinking damn near completely.
Xyd dons a flame retardant vest.
Xyd wears a flame retardant cap.
Xyd slides on a pair of flame retardant pants.
I might even go so far as to suggest Soj3 boot with no eq and the random pops would populate the mud with eq.
Limiting the loot to two (or three, or whatever) in possession is fooled by storage chars and friends. Also, what about looting earrings where you wear two but you want/need a third?
.xyd
Xyd dons a flame retardant vest.
Xyd wears a flame retardant cap.
Xyd slides on a pair of flame retardant pants.
I might even go so far as to suggest Soj3 boot with no eq and the random pops would populate the mud with eq.
Limiting the loot to two (or three, or whatever) in possession is fooled by storage chars and friends. Also, what about looting earrings where you wear two but you want/need a third?
.xyd
I can't believe you said that, Cherzra.
In the efforts of fairness evils take, that seems wholly contradictory to the actions I have seen and heard(a vast majority of which is beneficial and very cool).
You think that hoarding a particular item, repeatedly, is OK? *boggles*
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
In the efforts of fairness evils take, that seems wholly contradictory to the actions I have seen and heard(a vast majority of which is beneficial and very cool).
You think that hoarding a particular item, repeatedly, is OK? *boggles*
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
Yeah... my idea rocks! 
Cherzra: People with clairvoyance or network of friends already have that advantage. This would just mean they need to spend more time/effort if they want to repeatedly twink shit.
Xyd: The rareload percentage would affect reboots as well. It would just count as a normal repop... heh.
Gindipple: YOU PIG!!! Look at my pack... you see _me_ carrying any rations? Hell no!
Sarvis
Cherzra: People with clairvoyance or network of friends already have that advantage. This would just mean they need to spend more time/effort if they want to repeatedly twink shit.
Xyd: The rareload percentage would affect reboots as well. It would just count as a normal repop... heh.
Gindipple: YOU PIG!!!
Look at my pack... you see _me_ carrying any rations? Hell no! Sarvis
I just think some people need to stop fucking whining about every little thing that goes on and start playing a little more.
Who gives a shit if some elf camps ten thousand flagons? Get yourself to level 20, get to the mainland, and go get one of the other hundred billion drink containers in the game.
In 3 months this won't even be an issue, when the player base spreads out to a more even ratio.
- Ragorn
Sick of seeing this thread in every forum.
Who gives a shit if some elf camps ten thousand flagons? Get yourself to level 20, get to the mainland, and go get one of the other hundred billion drink containers in the game.
In 3 months this won't even be an issue, when the player base spreads out to a more even ratio.
- Ragorn
Sick of seeing this thread in every forum.
Sorry Ragorn. Every elf did what you did. Abused alpha to learn EM. It's a clear and present problem. Sorry you're too shortsighted to see it.
If you don't like it, don't read it. If you can't be constructive, don't post.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
If you don't like it, don't read it. If you can't be constructive, don't post.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
I think the original poster has some good ideals, but in the real MUD world I think this idea is kind of lame. Where would trading go? Now instead of trading/buying items you want you personally have to wait to get into an eq group to get that item. Now you may be saying that they replaced thier item w/something else they got on an eq run. What if most people dumped that item on an alternate character or did hand me downs? The MUD world is supposed to be capatilist, not socialist where everyone has a fair chance of getting something. I will agree that it sucks when those twinks, which are the very small minority on the mud, camp eq or they get that 5th twilight for some low lvl twink or thier alt. But I think the way things are now are fine. Just wait for the MUD to get more develped as far as people go and there won't be as big of an eq crunch.
Jols
Jols
Ok, so you up it to 3 then. 2 to wear, in the case of 2 slot items(rings, earrings, bracers, etc). And one to trade.
Easy fix. Put it on a control knob.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
Easy fix. Put it on a control knob.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
Ragorn, when you figure out how to play a ranger, stop whining, and actually figure out you're almost universally laughed at, I might take that as an insult.
Til then, feel free to dwell in ignorance, and just be a common joke.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
Til then, feel free to dwell in ignorance, and just be a common joke.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
-
Guest
My 2 cents.
Who cares if someone hoards an equipment?
It is only the easiest lowbie equipment that gets done the 1st min after a boot anyway.
I think your proposal Malacar is NOT stopping the twinking, as the twinks will just store the equipment on alts.
I personally have not seen anyone camp at equipment this wipe or even run asap to do it. I simply don't see the reason for any hardcoded feature that makes playing more encumberable for the normal player.
For example, there are PLENTY of items that are usually gone within 1 hour after a boot that I WANT to have lots off. (For example the sack from Isela.)
The only way to stop twinkers IMHO is to talk to them, and NOT do the same thing yourself.
/Jegzed
Who cares if someone hoards an equipment?
It is only the easiest lowbie equipment that gets done the 1st min after a boot anyway.
I think your proposal Malacar is NOT stopping the twinking, as the twinks will just store the equipment on alts.
I personally have not seen anyone camp at equipment this wipe or even run asap to do it. I simply don't see the reason for any hardcoded feature that makes playing more encumberable for the normal player.
For example, there are PLENTY of items that are usually gone within 1 hour after a boot that I WANT to have lots off. (For example the sack from Isela.)
The only way to stop twinkers IMHO is to talk to them, and NOT do the same thing yourself.
/Jegzed
The point was to control alts, but you're right, it's definitely a hole in the idea.
I've tried talking to some of these people. It doesn't do much good. And not only do I not have an 'alt' or a storage character, I give out everything like handmedowns. I don't own or have anything I don't need at this point.
And Jegzed, most of this stuff is coming about from the island of Evermeet, so you wouldn't see much of it. Not to mention you guys(higher evils) are higher than most, so there isn't really competition for you all just yet.
But I agree.. It has holes. Just trying to help come up with a solution.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
I've tried talking to some of these people. It doesn't do much good. And not only do I not have an 'alt' or a storage character, I give out everything like handmedowns. I don't own or have anything I don't need at this point.
And Jegzed, most of this stuff is coming about from the island of Evermeet, so you wouldn't see much of it. Not to mention you guys(higher evils) are higher than most, so there isn't really competition for you all just yet.
But I agree.. It has holes. Just trying to help come up with a solution.
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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
This is the exact reason I've stopped trying to help my friends out with equipment. I do not wish to compete with anyone over a silly flagon. Its just pointless now. I don't even worry about it.
In a few months when everyone has 10 flagons, and everyone has enough ww boots to supply an army, then we won't have this problem anymore.
I get at least 2 or 3 tells a day asking if I'm selling flagons, or from someone I barely know asking if I can get water walking boots. No more! Get them yerself!
*tog tells*
Kelsi
In a few months when everyone has 10 flagons, and everyone has enough ww boots to supply an army, then we won't have this problem anymore.
I get at least 2 or 3 tells a day asking if I'm selling flagons, or from someone I barely know asking if I can get water walking boots. No more! Get them yerself!
*tog tells*
Kelsi
u can twink any lvl eq. not to say i did. but fireweed. easy to get. i remember platinum bracers they were good easy to get. black eyepatch very nice. rare. easy to get. ic rares easy to get pretty nice. i think the point is that twink makes the game unfair. but are they really twinks? takes some skill and knowledge to walk jot for fireweed since u can't camp in zone anymore. anyways all comments are based from last wipe. if things has changed than disregard and just try to understand the meaning behind it.
Ragorn:
Jols:
(Anyone else who thinks the problem will "go away") :
The sleeves I was talking about in the other thread were gone every boot within an hour. And this was back on soj2, maybe 2 months before it shut down. So no, the problem won't go away in a month.
Jols: We're supposed to be RPing adventurers here, not merchants. I'd much rather go exploring to find a gleaming holy ls than shout that I want to buy a gleaming holy ls.
Malacar: I'd say Rags plays ranger pretty well... and since we all tend to get accused of whining almost constantly it must be part of the class.
Jegzed:
Who cares if someone hoards an equipment?
Anyone who needs that eq and can never find where it comes from.
It is only the easiest lowbie equipment that gets done the 1st min after a boot anyway.
Yes, the easiest lowbie eq. The stuff LOWBIES should be trying to earn on their own. I've been here 3 years and could still be considered a newbie based on how little eq I know how to get. Why? Because by the time I log on 5 minutes after a boot it's already gone and I'll never see it.
I personally have not seen anyone camp at equipment this wipe or even run asap to do it. I simply don't see the reason for any hardcoded feature that makes playing more encumberable for the normal player.
I ran to ant farm once to get some earrings for Vigis, by the time I got to the entrance someone else was walking out with all the eq from the zone. We aren't really worried about "normal" players, we are getting pissed off by the twinks who get 10 sets of tiny silver rings. (Happened in soj2, mud kept crashing and the same guy went and did the cats each crash. Right in front of me because I was low on moves during the first crash too...)
Sok: Not gonna be tryin jot anytime soon. But when I do I'm sure there will be nothing for me to find... so why bother? Kinda kills the spirit of the game if you ask me.
Sarvis
Jols:
(Anyone else who thinks the problem will "go away") :
The sleeves I was talking about in the other thread were gone every boot within an hour. And this was back on soj2, maybe 2 months before it shut down. So no, the problem won't go away in a month.
Jols: We're supposed to be RPing adventurers here, not merchants. I'd much rather go exploring to find a gleaming holy ls than shout that I want to buy a gleaming holy ls.
Malacar: I'd say Rags plays ranger pretty well... and since we all tend to get accused of whining almost constantly it must be part of the class.
Jegzed:
Who cares if someone hoards an equipment?
Anyone who needs that eq and can never find where it comes from.
It is only the easiest lowbie equipment that gets done the 1st min after a boot anyway.
Yes, the easiest lowbie eq. The stuff LOWBIES should be trying to earn on their own. I've been here 3 years and could still be considered a newbie based on how little eq I know how to get. Why? Because by the time I log on 5 minutes after a boot it's already gone and I'll never see it.
I personally have not seen anyone camp at equipment this wipe or even run asap to do it. I simply don't see the reason for any hardcoded feature that makes playing more encumberable for the normal player.
I ran to ant farm once to get some earrings for Vigis, by the time I got to the entrance someone else was walking out with all the eq from the zone. We aren't really worried about "normal" players, we are getting pissed off by the twinks who get 10 sets of tiny silver rings. (Happened in soj2, mud kept crashing and the same guy went and did the cats each crash. Right in front of me because I was low on moves during the first crash too...)
Sok: Not gonna be tryin jot anytime soon. But when I do I'm sure there will be nothing for me to find... so why bother? Kinda kills the spirit of the game if you ask me.
Sarvis
I readed all theese threads, and can only see 3 arguments why you don't need to do a thing:
1) It will all go over
2) I got no problem with it so why you
3) stop whining and play
I think point 1 is ingnorant, and can be discarded, some people like to stockpile stuff.....
I think point 2 can be ignored, a lot of people got a problem with this so that fact makes it a problem. If you like it or not.
I think point 3 is someone who wants to be flamed. So better be ignored.
On the selutions I heared a few good suggestions.
1) is a hard coded selution, max 2 per person.
2) is make every item a random rare pop in the boot (so can pop also later in the boot)
Of theese selutions I like number 2 the most, and I forsee problems with 1. One would not allow you to have 3 vigorize staffs, or 5 potions also.... Or that 3th ring you baught for a friend. Also storage characters will make this imposible to implement well. But selution 1 is better but askes a lot of coding, and I think to much to be even considerd. If it can be considerd I think a god would need to replay to this thread.
But I got mybe a 3th selution to this problem. We all saw the new rating, prestige. It would be mybe nice if you did a quest it would cost you prestige. So somebody can not do a quest repeatedly, eg fireweed earring would cost 1000 prestige per time you did it, and you only would get 100 for each level.
But to consider this I think you should be able to get more prestige by doing some quests (eg it costed me a holy ls that quest, but I got 500 prestige). Also play time should be a factor in this. And prob how much prestige a quest costs should depend on the charisma/power of a character?
just my thaughts......
silvea
1) It will all go over
2) I got no problem with it so why you
3) stop whining and play
I think point 1 is ingnorant, and can be discarded, some people like to stockpile stuff.....
I think point 2 can be ignored, a lot of people got a problem with this so that fact makes it a problem. If you like it or not.
I think point 3 is someone who wants to be flamed. So better be ignored.
On the selutions I heared a few good suggestions.
1) is a hard coded selution, max 2 per person.
2) is make every item a random rare pop in the boot (so can pop also later in the boot)
Of theese selutions I like number 2 the most, and I forsee problems with 1. One would not allow you to have 3 vigorize staffs, or 5 potions also.... Or that 3th ring you baught for a friend. Also storage characters will make this imposible to implement well. But selution 1 is better but askes a lot of coding, and I think to much to be even considerd. If it can be considerd I think a god would need to replay to this thread.
But I got mybe a 3th selution to this problem. We all saw the new rating, prestige. It would be mybe nice if you did a quest it would cost you prestige. So somebody can not do a quest repeatedly, eg fireweed earring would cost 1000 prestige per time you did it, and you only would get 100 for each level.
But to consider this I think you should be able to get more prestige by doing some quests (eg it costed me a holy ls that quest, but I got 500 prestige). Also play time should be a factor in this. And prob how much prestige a quest costs should depend on the charisma/power of a character?
just my thaughts......
silvea
Let me enlighten you guys with something. Sure there are people that horde eq. Like Rags and cherzra says.... so what? You know what they're gonna do with it??? Sell it!!!!!! Gee, imagine that. So what do you do, find an easy source of cash, save up... and... and... BUY IT! There are always and forever going to be merchants and customers. Merchants are the ones who can get the good stuff first. Customers are those who can't. Think of it as an economy. If you know you're going to get beat to the eq, don't try, spend your time making money and getting levels. Then buy it for crying out loud.
So, the solution is to reward the twinky hoarders by promoting their actions?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ssarra:
Let me enlighten you guys with something. Sure there are people that horde eq. Like Rags and cherzra says.... so what? You know what they're gonna do with it??? Sell it!!!!!! Gee, imagine that. So what do you do, find an easy source of cash, save up... and... and... BUY IT! There are always and forever going to be merchants and customers. Merchants are the ones who can get the good stuff first. Customers are those who can't. Think of it as an economy. If you know you're going to get beat to the eq, don't try, spend your time making money and getting levels. Then buy it for crying out loud.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ssarra:
Let me enlighten you guys with something. Sure there are people that horde eq. Like Rags and cherzra says.... so what? You know what they're gonna do with it??? Sell it!!!!!! Gee, imagine that. So what do you do, find an easy source of cash, save up... and... and... BUY IT! There are always and forever going to be merchants and customers. Merchants are the ones who can get the good stuff first. Customers are those who can't. Think of it as an economy. If you know you're going to get beat to the eq, don't try, spend your time making money and getting levels. Then buy it for crying out loud.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
For the umpteenth time, everyone can get eq on this mud. Everyone. There is tons of eq out there that a 2 man group can get, some of it actually very decent.
The "waah I can't get it because someone else always does" excuse is unfounded because everybody can go out and explore. Log on and run around, every item that is semi-tough or harder to get is guaranteed to be still be on mobs because we are all low level schmucks at this point. Remember where it is and get it later. As for the easy to get items, run around after a boot and just look around. Don't see anything? Do it again next boot, until you find something. Still don't find anything? Ask someone where the item X loads, 99% of the people know. Tiny silver rings, hatori boots, etc, etc.
Once you know where something loads, go and get a group and kill it. Don't get there first? Tough, better luck next time. Everyone wants eq. If I had the ability to do the tg every reboot, guess what, I WOULD. You know what? You would probably too. This isn't communism, you grab what you can get your hands on. And you know what? It works. EQ trickles down, it's sold, given away and traded. In a year all level 10 newbies will be using gleaming holy longswords and nobody will give a crap about them anymore.
People don't stay put after a boot thinking to themselves "hmm maybe I won't go and get that nice +1 hit earring in hp, some poor guy needs it". They think "hey let me get that nice ring in hp, a buddie needs it or else I can sell/trade it".
People get items. Eq is what most of us play fot. Getting it is what it is about. I'll guarantee you that a year from now, Jot is going to be done every other boot or even more often. Are you going to call the groups twinks too?
Cherzra agreeing with the elf ranger
The "waah I can't get it because someone else always does" excuse is unfounded because everybody can go out and explore. Log on and run around, every item that is semi-tough or harder to get is guaranteed to be still be on mobs because we are all low level schmucks at this point. Remember where it is and get it later. As for the easy to get items, run around after a boot and just look around. Don't see anything? Do it again next boot, until you find something. Still don't find anything? Ask someone where the item X loads, 99% of the people know. Tiny silver rings, hatori boots, etc, etc.
Once you know where something loads, go and get a group and kill it. Don't get there first? Tough, better luck next time. Everyone wants eq. If I had the ability to do the tg every reboot, guess what, I WOULD. You know what? You would probably too. This isn't communism, you grab what you can get your hands on. And you know what? It works. EQ trickles down, it's sold, given away and traded. In a year all level 10 newbies will be using gleaming holy longswords and nobody will give a crap about them anymore.
People don't stay put after a boot thinking to themselves "hmm maybe I won't go and get that nice +1 hit earring in hp, some poor guy needs it". They think "hey let me get that nice ring in hp, a buddie needs it or else I can sell/trade it".
People get items. Eq is what most of us play fot. Getting it is what it is about. I'll guarantee you that a year from now, Jot is going to be done every other boot or even more often. Are you going to call the groups twinks too?
Cherzra agreeing with the elf ranger
Ok, I'm going to stop posting on this thread and the six or seven just like it. This discussion has gotten OUT OF HAND and has taken root in 3 of the 4 major forums on the BBS. This is my final argument.
In a perfect utopean mud world, everyone will do just enough equipment to equip themselves and their friends, and leave the rest for other people. In a perfect world, there would be no equipment trade beyond the friendly swap, because everyone would have free access to the equipment they need or want.
This is not a utopia.
Equipment sale and trade has been at the core of Sojourn's mud experience for years. People will monopolize the equipment they know, hoard surplus, and attempt to negotiate a trade for equipment they DON'T know. It's a part of the game. A few people are attempting to bastardize this practice, calling people who so much as shout for equipment twinky or unethical. I've always enjoyed watching Sojourn's economy. Platinum used to mean something.. it meant you could buy equipment to fill your slots. Trade was a part of the game, and it was a part that I enjoyed.
I'm a big believer in exploration and finding your way around the MUD. But what this discussion and others are turning into is chastising people who aren't willing to abandon the economy system Sojourn has known for so long. There is nothing wrong with trading equipment on the open market. The people who hand their equipment out for free are no more ethical than the ones who trade. There is no moral high ground.
This particular branch of the discussion deals with camping on newbie equipment. So, here is the solution to the problem:
- Alter the camp command to work like idle timeout. Instead of saving your camp location, if the mud boots you return to your last rent location.
- Make entire high-level zones nocamp.
- Increase the idle timeout delay.
The first part prevents people from camping on equipment, or 1 step outside a far away equipment zone with the intent of running in as soon as the MUD comes up. The second two parts reduce the twink factor of the first part, keeping people from using camp as a word of recall if they get stuck in a zone. You have your solution. Now, instead of campers, the people who get the equipment are the ones with the best connection and fastest Leuth->EF speedwalk macros. Nothing is really fixed, but it should make some people feel better.
- Ragorn
Tired of this argument.
In a perfect utopean mud world, everyone will do just enough equipment to equip themselves and their friends, and leave the rest for other people. In a perfect world, there would be no equipment trade beyond the friendly swap, because everyone would have free access to the equipment they need or want.
This is not a utopia.
Equipment sale and trade has been at the core of Sojourn's mud experience for years. People will monopolize the equipment they know, hoard surplus, and attempt to negotiate a trade for equipment they DON'T know. It's a part of the game. A few people are attempting to bastardize this practice, calling people who so much as shout for equipment twinky or unethical. I've always enjoyed watching Sojourn's economy. Platinum used to mean something.. it meant you could buy equipment to fill your slots. Trade was a part of the game, and it was a part that I enjoyed.
I'm a big believer in exploration and finding your way around the MUD. But what this discussion and others are turning into is chastising people who aren't willing to abandon the economy system Sojourn has known for so long. There is nothing wrong with trading equipment on the open market. The people who hand their equipment out for free are no more ethical than the ones who trade. There is no moral high ground.
This particular branch of the discussion deals with camping on newbie equipment. So, here is the solution to the problem:
- Alter the camp command to work like idle timeout. Instead of saving your camp location, if the mud boots you return to your last rent location.
- Make entire high-level zones nocamp.
- Increase the idle timeout delay.
The first part prevents people from camping on equipment, or 1 step outside a far away equipment zone with the intent of running in as soon as the MUD comes up. The second two parts reduce the twink factor of the first part, keeping people from using camp as a word of recall if they get stuck in a zone. You have your solution. Now, instead of campers, the people who get the equipment are the ones with the best connection and fastest Leuth->EF speedwalk macros. Nothing is really fixed, but it should make some people feel better.
- Ragorn
Tired of this argument.
An interesting response from Cherzra, the second or third highest level person on the MUD. And Ragorn... a guy who probably had the gleaming holy 5 minutes into the first boot. In other words the people who already have everything don't want it to change. No big surprise there.
But for the other 500 of us there is a definate problem. You said yourself Rags, this topic has come up _separately_ in four different forums. The last time anything received this much attention rangers got woodcarve, and a few other things. Why? Because there was an obvious problem. Rangers were underpowered, now the problem is that "new" players cannot find eq. And by new, I mean anyone who hasn't been around for at least 5 years.
No one here has asked for a Utopia. Merely a chance to be able to _earn_ their own eq. An example is ant farm. Shortly after that area first went in I checked it out, even though I was many levels too high for it. I talked to the mobs and such and realized there was a quest here. Only problem was it had already been done, so I came back again the next day... and the day after that. Sometimes just 20 minutes after a boot and the quest was already done. Now yes, I could have just bought whatever item you get... but doesn't that still leave me out of the fun of solving the quest? Or is that fun to be reserved for people with speedwalk triggers?
Ragorn, you suggested a solution to the problem you claim doesn't exist. Interesting. The biggest problem though, is that there are already solutions (mine in particular ) that would do a better job of taking care of the problem.
You are right that there is nothing wrong with trading eq. The problem is when that is the only way to get it.
Sarvis
But for the other 500 of us there is a definate problem. You said yourself Rags, this topic has come up _separately_ in four different forums. The last time anything received this much attention rangers got woodcarve, and a few other things. Why? Because there was an obvious problem. Rangers were underpowered, now the problem is that "new" players cannot find eq. And by new, I mean anyone who hasn't been around for at least 5 years.
No one here has asked for a Utopia. Merely a chance to be able to _earn_ their own eq. An example is ant farm. Shortly after that area first went in I checked it out, even though I was many levels too high for it. I talked to the mobs and such and realized there was a quest here. Only problem was it had already been done, so I came back again the next day... and the day after that. Sometimes just 20 minutes after a boot and the quest was already done. Now yes, I could have just bought whatever item you get... but doesn't that still leave me out of the fun of solving the quest? Or is that fun to be reserved for people with speedwalk triggers?
Ragorn, you suggested a solution to the problem you claim doesn't exist. Interesting. The biggest problem though, is that there are already solutions (mine in particular
) that would do a better job of taking care of the problem.You are right that there is nothing wrong with trading eq. The problem is when that is the only way to get it.
Sarvis
1. Neither of my characters has *any* piece of equipment that could be considered "exciting" or all that desirable.
2. My characters have leveled just fine, thanks. I'm not cherzra's level, but I haven't put in the time he has, and I've split it on two diff chars (to help balance rl friends group - started an enchanter).
3. I'm not gonna sit here and complain taht the mastiff collar is done almost instantly. In my circle of friends, we could probably use 7 or 8 of them on characters that would receive a direct benefit.
4. When the current crop of people doing that right after boot has filled their inventory with the things, and can go off and do the tf chain or what not (i'm assuming the cherzra group has lots of these by now) I'll have the opportunity to run in there and load my friends up with them.
If you camp in a location that makes it very quick to do something, you're abusing the mud... and "camping eq"... which can get you in definite trouble.
If you're renting in waterdeep and know how to get to these locations quickly, you're doing no such thing.
Sooner or later, you live with the fact that there are a few true twinks who will camp near the location (and hopefully the admins get them at least a small percentage of the time). I'm not enjoying Toril any less because I don't have the raddest set of equipment out there. And I'm not dying left and right because of it.
Eventually the equipment that will be on the A list of these people will be in Jot or some such, and the people doing the lower end stuff will be dumping it on the market for cheap. While I'd rather do the equipment myself, I have no qualms about paying 10k to get a flamberge... or whatever ever else equipment people wanna sell me. (And yes, I realize 10k is ridiculously low).
Incidentally, this idea for limiting items in the game hasn't worked on any other online game I've been on, for the storage character reason. Your solution would actually not achieve anything Mal.
A better solution I've seen (and I don't think they should do it, be clear on that) is to make almost all of the stuff you get !drop... and then make it impossible to do anything but destroy it or use it.
[This message has been edited by Kiloppile (edited 05-29-2001).]
2. My characters have leveled just fine, thanks. I'm not cherzra's level, but I haven't put in the time he has, and I've split it on two diff chars (to help balance rl friends group - started an enchanter).
3. I'm not gonna sit here and complain taht the mastiff collar is done almost instantly. In my circle of friends, we could probably use 7 or 8 of them on characters that would receive a direct benefit.
4. When the current crop of people doing that right after boot has filled their inventory with the things, and can go off and do the tf chain or what not (i'm assuming the cherzra group has lots of these by now) I'll have the opportunity to run in there and load my friends up with them.
If you camp in a location that makes it very quick to do something, you're abusing the mud... and "camping eq"... which can get you in definite trouble.
If you're renting in waterdeep and know how to get to these locations quickly, you're doing no such thing.
Sooner or later, you live with the fact that there are a few true twinks who will camp near the location (and hopefully the admins get them at least a small percentage of the time). I'm not enjoying Toril any less because I don't have the raddest set of equipment out there. And I'm not dying left and right because of it.
Eventually the equipment that will be on the A list of these people will be in Jot or some such, and the people doing the lower end stuff will be dumping it on the market for cheap. While I'd rather do the equipment myself, I have no qualms about paying 10k to get a flamberge... or whatever ever else equipment people wanna sell me. (And yes, I realize 10k is ridiculously low).
Incidentally, this idea for limiting items in the game hasn't worked on any other online game I've been on, for the storage character reason. Your solution would actually not achieve anything Mal.
A better solution I've seen (and I don't think they should do it, be clear on that) is to make almost all of the stuff you get !drop... and then make it impossible to do anything but destroy it or use it.
[This message has been edited by Kiloppile (edited 05-29-2001).]
I can see some merit in your proposal, it only really applies to newbie gear, and as people have pointed out, in several months the value of newbie-midbe gear will be lost. If you want some gear, get a group and go get it, its really that simple. Having it load randomly is a penalty for people who have they're act together.
The muds already time consuming enough to wait around for equipment to pop.
Belle
Personally I think this would SERIOUSLY backfire, right now equipment gets done, it gets pushed down the line as better equipment gets down, more slots on more people get filled. If we had a random load, far far less equipment would be out there on folks right now, and far less would ever filter down to the lower levels.
The muds already time consuming enough to wait around for equipment to pop.
Belle
Personally I think this would SERIOUSLY backfire, right now equipment gets done, it gets pushed down the line as better equipment gets down, more slots on more people get filled. If we had a random load, far far less equipment would be out there on folks right now, and far less would ever filter down to the lower levels.
Actually, just adding a random repop to certain items during boot would be a big plus. People would then keep killing the mobs to get the stuff they need. It wouldn't have to be for the whole mud. Lets just say its for eq on mobs under level 35 that are not rare. Make them load eq 5-10% of the time. You kill them till you get what you want. It doesn't affect high end game balance, and it elimates the twinkage. It would take some time to evaluate where the problems lie though. It would also greatly benefit the people that don't have the Real Life time to spend waiting for a boot so they have a chance to run for an item.
Killopile: Point 4 is wrong. People will always keep doing eq as long as it can be sold. They might have 10 tiny silver rings in their packs waiting to be sold, but why not get 2 more and sell those as well?
Belleshel: Random pop times would _increase_ the amount of available eq. An item with a 1% chance of loading can load up to four times a day. Currently reboots/crashes happen maybe 3 times/day? And as the MUD gets more stable that number might go down to once a week or so.
Random load isn't a penalty; people who know where something is will still be able to go look and get it, if it's there. But people who don't know where it is will have a chance to explore and find it for a change.
Sarvis
Belleshel: Random pop times would _increase_ the amount of available eq. An item with a 1% chance of loading can load up to four times a day. Currently reboots/crashes happen maybe 3 times/day? And as the MUD gets more stable that number might go down to once a week or so.
Random load isn't a penalty; people who know where something is will still be able to go look and get it, if it's there. But people who don't know where it is will have a chance to explore and find it for a change.
Sarvis
Nokie, heh, I'm not promoting them, I'm saying that it is going to happen, regardless of what anyone does about it. If some type of fix gets implemented, someone will figure out a way around it. It's going to happen. No, I don't promote it. But instead of trying to go for the eq, I go for cash and at the same time exp, and buy the low/mid level eq I want when I see it for sale. Sure, the twinks make money, but what else can you do? Bitching doesn't always help I'm not flaming or nothing, I'm as straight as I can be, just giving my 2.5 cents. Not that anyone really cares, they'll just keep whining anyways.
Ssarra
I'm not flaming or nothing, I'm as straight as I can be, just giving my 2.5 cents. Not that anyone really cares, they'll just keep whining anyways.Ssarra
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B>Killopile: Point 4 is wrong. People will always keep doing eq as long as it can be sold. They might have 10 tiny silver rings in their packs waiting to be sold, but why not get 2 more and sell those as well?
Belleshel: Random pop times would _increase_ the amount of available eq. An item with a 1% chance of loading can load up to four times a day. Currently reboots/crashes happen maybe 3 times/day? And as the MUD gets more stable that number might go down to once a week or so.
Random load isn't a penalty; people who know where something is will still be able to go look and get it, if it's there. But people who don't know where it is will have a chance to explore and find it for a change.
Sarvis</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why not get another silver ring? Because they can do the onyx now... and so on... They get what... 2-5k for the onyx... maybe 50 pp at that point for the silver?
Eventually, you can be the one doing the equipment every boot (if yer fast)... just do what ya need and move on... or alternatively don't complain that people do that to us.
<B>Killopile: Point 4 is wrong. People will always keep doing eq as long as it can be sold. They might have 10 tiny silver rings in their packs waiting to be sold, but why not get 2 more and sell those as well?
Belleshel: Random pop times would _increase_ the amount of available eq. An item with a 1% chance of loading can load up to four times a day. Currently reboots/crashes happen maybe 3 times/day? And as the MUD gets more stable that number might go down to once a week or so.
Random load isn't a penalty; people who know where something is will still be able to go look and get it, if it's there. But people who don't know where it is will have a chance to explore and find it for a change.
Sarvis</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why not get another silver ring? Because they can do the onyx now... and so on... They get what... 2-5k for the onyx... maybe 50 pp at that point for the silver?
Eventually, you can be the one doing the equipment every boot (if yer fast)... just do what ya need and move on... or alternatively don't complain that people do that to us.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B>
Belleshel: Random pop times would _increase_ the amount of available eq. An item with a 1% chance of loading can load up to four times a day. Currently reboots/crashes happen maybe 3 times/day? And as the MUD gets more stable that number might go down to once a week or so.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I doubt that. You put a group together for EQ because you know certain items will be there, I don't see many people sailing over to MS to check to see if something has popped, and how disappointing is it for 1 piece of equipment (or 0 for that matter) because the other pieces haven't loaded. Currently most equipment in the game goes undone well into a boot, get a group and get it. I personally like knowing X item will be there if I put a group together after a reboot/crash. Also your idea would give a huge advantage to enchanters who can use LI to find when an item actually loads. I see it being much more of a hassle, then a bonus to the game.
Belle
<B>
Belleshel: Random pop times would _increase_ the amount of available eq. An item with a 1% chance of loading can load up to four times a day. Currently reboots/crashes happen maybe 3 times/day? And as the MUD gets more stable that number might go down to once a week or so.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I doubt that. You put a group together for EQ because you know certain items will be there, I don't see many people sailing over to MS to check to see if something has popped, and how disappointing is it for 1 piece of equipment (or 0 for that matter) because the other pieces haven't loaded. Currently most equipment in the game goes undone well into a boot, get a group and get it. I personally like knowing X item will be there if I put a group together after a reboot/crash. Also your idea would give a huge advantage to enchanters who can use LI to find when an item actually loads. I see it being much more of a hassle, then a bonus to the game.
Belle
I lied. I'd like to address this.
Right now I'm at -18 armor class with 12/4 hit/dam. The hitroll comes from two obsidian scimitars, which I walked to the moment I got out of the portal and quested all by myself. No camping, no hoarding, and to my knowledge, nobody at that point had even bothered to walk to the zone to attempt the quest. There's equipment out there that's easy to get, even solo, that nobody camps because they haven't bothered to explore past BGR.
I have no mastiff collars.
I have no +hit leather cloaks.
I have no tiny silver rings.
I have no huge drinking flagon.
I guess my point here is that you can either stress over being the first one to the equipment every boot, or you can go use what you've got and have a good time. My "solution" was meant to appease people in the first catagory, while I occupy the second.
I apologize if my tone has been harsh. Sometimes this mud brings out the frustration in me.
- Ragorn
Done with this discussion.
Right now I'm at -18 armor class with 12/4 hit/dam. The hitroll comes from two obsidian scimitars, which I walked to the moment I got out of the portal and quested all by myself. No camping, no hoarding, and to my knowledge, nobody at that point had even bothered to walk to the zone to attempt the quest. There's equipment out there that's easy to get, even solo, that nobody camps because they haven't bothered to explore past BGR.
I have no mastiff collars.
I have no +hit leather cloaks.
I have no tiny silver rings.
I have no huge drinking flagon.
I guess my point here is that you can either stress over being the first one to the equipment every boot, or you can go use what you've got and have a good time. My "solution" was meant to appease people in the first catagory, while I occupy the second.
I apologize if my tone has been harsh. Sometimes this mud brings out the frustration in me.
- Ragorn
Done with this discussion.
the problem isn't people camping. the problem is that there are too many different type of players on the mud. there are folks who find it a waste of time to do low lvl eq and there are folks who want mud to be perfect. of course there are horder and folks who like to think coins are worth something. should there be changes made. is there a problem? should changes only be made to low lvl-mid lvl eq.
random pop. i think at high lvl zone after crash/boot eq should be there. after that it can random pop. i think this is a good compromise for both groups.
2 rings or eq per player not enuf. but i think malacar said to put a knob on it, so it will prolly work. but again i say only do it for high lvl stuff. lowbie eq shouldn't really be dealt with. i beat ya if i had 1 onyx ring i wouldn't trade it for 10 tiny silver ones. or whos' the fool that will trade a flamberge for 100 holy cyrmach or whatever that harm sword is.
i remember doing brass and no one wanted stiletto. i had like 20 of them in my bag. decided to drop them cuz it was unneccessary weight. sure i mighta gotta 100 p for them but way waste my mud time to get coins that didn't do anything? unless u buying a guild room or whatever.
just a different value system than otheres but not necessary wrong one. i believe anything that makes low lvl easy should be promoted and high lvl stuff harder is good. cuz the high lvl stuff is went a different kind of fun begins.
random pop. i think at high lvl zone after crash/boot eq should be there. after that it can random pop. i think this is a good compromise for both groups.
2 rings or eq per player not enuf. but i think malacar said to put a knob on it, so it will prolly work. but again i say only do it for high lvl stuff. lowbie eq shouldn't really be dealt with. i beat ya if i had 1 onyx ring i wouldn't trade it for 10 tiny silver ones. or whos' the fool that will trade a flamberge for 100 holy cyrmach or whatever that harm sword is.
i remember doing brass and no one wanted stiletto. i had like 20 of them in my bag. decided to drop them cuz it was unneccessary weight. sure i mighta gotta 100 p for them but way waste my mud time to get coins that didn't do anything? unless u buying a guild room or whatever.
just a different value system than otheres but not necessary wrong one. i believe anything that makes low lvl easy should be promoted and high lvl stuff harder is good. cuz the high lvl stuff is went a different kind of fun begins.
Ragorn: But think about it this way. If I had walked out there 3 hours after you I would have found nothing. So why should I have "bothered to explore past BGR." (I have btw, often; I just never seem to find anything.) With random pop I might have found something, or might not have.
Sok: You know... I kinda like that addition about high level zones always popping on a reboot/crash.
Sarvis
Sok: You know... I kinda like that addition about high level zones always popping on a reboot/crash.
Sarvis
I think some people are missing the point that Sarvis is making. There are some of us who enjoy doing quests. It's tons more exciting to get "rewarded" for completing a quest than it is to have to buy the same item. I've also heard that some quests require certain items to complete, so if all those are gone quickly then there's quests that no one can complete.
I'm as big a fan of a working economy on a MUD as anyone, but I also really enjoy adventuring for my equipment. It's fun to do at the time and also makes for fun stories to tell later. "Our group carefully entered the Storm Halls and after a long battle vanquished the Storm Giant King. I received the great sword Icetongue for my efforts", sounds so much better than, "Yeah, I picked up Icetongue for 100 pp's from so-and-so".
--Korik
I'm as big a fan of a working economy on a MUD as anyone, but I also really enjoy adventuring for my equipment. It's fun to do at the time and also makes for fun stories to tell later. "Our group carefully entered the Storm Halls and after a long battle vanquished the Storm Giant King. I received the great sword Icetongue for my efforts", sounds so much better than, "Yeah, I picked up Icetongue for 100 pp's from so-and-so".
--Korik
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Lolok Frozencrow
- Sojourner
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: CANADA
Trapper traps beaver for fur to keep his family warm.
Trapper traps extra beaver to trade to farmer(who don't know where beaver hide) for sum corn to feed his family.
price go's down on beaver pelts because everyone has enough so trapper starts hunting bear.
At no point did the trapper do anything wrong. Nobody who is "twinking" is doing it for satan , they do it to get money or trades ,so they can buy other stuff that they need.I don't see what is wrong with that . I rolled a elf ,I learned island it in alpha, I ran, I got, I will sell , I will trade, I will have fun, I dont have a advantage over anyone else, I have a job and kids,. I dont hate somone more equipt then me (eh hem!) I love this place, please dont ruin this for me.
Just play please
Trapper traps extra beaver to trade to farmer(who don't know where beaver hide) for sum corn to feed his family.
price go's down on beaver pelts because everyone has enough so trapper starts hunting bear.
At no point did the trapper do anything wrong. Nobody who is "twinking" is doing it for satan , they do it to get money or trades ,so they can buy other stuff that they need.I don't see what is wrong with that . I rolled a elf ,I learned island it in alpha, I ran, I got, I will sell , I will trade, I will have fun, I dont have a advantage over anyone else, I have a job and kids,. I dont hate somone more equipt then me (eh hem!) I love this place, please dont ruin this for me.
Just play please
I said I wasn't going to play
I must have lied somewhere because here I am with a lvl 13 invoker
I will never be another hardcore mudder
*points to all the lvl 30-somethings*
I agree with Kiloppile in the point of you don't need all this stuff to get to a decent level, but then I am but a caster
Important to melees? I have no clue as always
I have been around for over 8 years
Still a n00b
One of those unfortunate people that hasn't explored past BGR but because I play a high damage dealing class, I got all those nifty pieces from places like Vault and Jot
*shrug*
I die a lot, afraid to leave my closet
Already the eq is starting to filter down
I've got a dirk and an emerald ring that someone didn't need
Muds will never be a socialist environment
No one would play if it was
There will always be elitists, those who take advantage, those who play longer, those who hoard, and those like me who just get things last or have to depend heavily on powerplaying friends
Sure its not fair
Its not fair I have a life threatening disease at 21 that could be triggered by eating one apple too many
Its not fair that millions of people don't have food to eat
It's just a game everyone
Just sit back in your favorite computer chair, grab a soda or a beer, a bag of chips, and escape
Just chill and have fun
No one is right or wrong and you get nothing from making people feel bad unless its some kind of mental issue you have and thats just in a different ball park
It's 5am and I have not slept so I am not sure if I have been rambling or even coherent
Flame me if you wish, you won't get a response
I am not witty or quick with words and I would rather not deliberately make someone feel bad because they disagree with me
If everyone thought the same about everything, it would be a very boring world
A very sleepy Jennie
I must have lied somewhere because here I am with a lvl 13 invoker
I will never be another hardcore mudder
*points to all the lvl 30-somethings*
I agree with Kiloppile in the point of you don't need all this stuff to get to a decent level, but then I am but a caster
Important to melees? I have no clue as always
I have been around for over 8 years
Still a n00b
One of those unfortunate people that hasn't explored past BGR but because I play a high damage dealing class, I got all those nifty pieces from places like Vault and Jot
*shrug*
I die a lot, afraid to leave my closet
Already the eq is starting to filter down
I've got a dirk and an emerald ring that someone didn't need
Muds will never be a socialist environment
No one would play if it was
There will always be elitists, those who take advantage, those who play longer, those who hoard, and those like me who just get things last or have to depend heavily on powerplaying friends
Sure its not fair
Its not fair I have a life threatening disease at 21 that could be triggered by eating one apple too many
Its not fair that millions of people don't have food to eat
It's just a game everyone
Just sit back in your favorite computer chair, grab a soda or a beer, a bag of chips, and escape
Just chill and have fun
No one is right or wrong and you get nothing from making people feel bad unless its some kind of mental issue you have and thats just in a different ball park
It's 5am and I have not slept so I am not sure if I have been rambling or even coherent
Flame me if you wish, you won't get a response
I am not witty or quick with words and I would rather not deliberately make someone feel bad because they disagree with me
If everyone thought the same about everything, it would be a very boring world
A very sleepy Jennie
Lolok: The trapper couldn't keep going to the beavers dwelling every couple hours and getting a new one. He'd have to finda new beaver each time, and the farmer would have just as good a chance if he went out into the forest looking for a beaver. But the farmer needs to tend his crops, so he does that instead. Right now we are talking about one magical beaver that comes back in the exact same location every day or so, and one trapper who is always there waiting for it... the other guy is actually also a trapper, but never finds the beaver because the first guy got it. So now the second trapper starves to death because he couldn't trade for any corn.
Jen: Yes, you were rambling... Only point I'd make to you is that many people mud to get away from the drudgery of their real lives, not to have it recreated in another environment. A random-pop dealie wouldn't make the mud "socialist," it would just give everyone a chance to find things and do quests.
Imm types: None of ye have posted in these threads yet. What're you guys thinkin' about all this?
Sarvis
[This message has been edited by Sarvis (edited 05-30-2001).]
Jen: Yes, you were rambling...
Only point I'd make to you is that many people mud to get away from the drudgery of their real lives, not to have it recreated in another environment. A random-pop dealie wouldn't make the mud "socialist," it would just give everyone a chance to find things and do quests.Imm types: None of ye have posted in these threads yet. What're you guys thinkin' about all this?
Sarvis
[This message has been edited by Sarvis (edited 05-30-2001).]
What bothers me is people hoarding eq or doing the same thing every boot and not giving others the chance to do it. I'm bringing this up because I recently saw a couple higher lvl people (30+) doing the damned south-WD eq like 1 min into boot. I happened to log on right after the mud crashed and went to try to get something because I am still wearing those damned steel collars, and our lvl 25 tank still didn't have a TS. Anyway, I got there to find a couple anon higher lvl ppl (elitists if you want) slaughtering the mobs in about 20 seconds, then running to the next. Fine if they needed the stuff, but their eq was waaay past WD stuff. Give me a f'in break. I don't really care if there is a race or whatver, what bothers me is when people keep doing the same damned eq over and over and over when the mob isn't even in their league and the eq is useless to them. *snort*
I play to get away from the real world. It's my favorite getaway. And frankly, I couldn't care less about a random pop. I couldn't care less that this weapon gets downgraded, or that one upgraded. I couldn't care less about a lot of things. I make suggestions on here about changing things, true, but if they don't get imp'd, I couldn't care less. It's my getaway because I can focus on killing that damn squirrel, or talking to new found friends. I've found one or two that put up with my newbieness as a necro, and I couldn't be more thankful for that. Thank you Ssynss, Lissrranak, and a few others. Those are the people who when I log on I'm happy to see. I play to take my aggression out on a computer generated character, so that I don't take it out on another person.
Ssarra
Ssarra
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