Char creation

Archive of the Sojourn3 Ideas Forum.
Todrael
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Char creation

Postby Todrael » Mon Nov 19, 2001 10:57 pm

Make lich available to people at char creation.

-Todrael, tired.
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Nov 20, 2001 12:05 am

I too have suggestions for classes that should be available during character creation:

Drummer
Baseball player
Acrobat
Politician
Street cleaner


Yayaril
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Postby Grintor » Tue Nov 20, 2001 3:34 am

character creation needs to be easier. right now i can see how it would turn off any potential new players to the game (god forbid! new players? in MY MUD!?)

so far the new MMORPG's got it right. you have your base stats set per race, and you get a certain amount of bonuses to add (dont have to be real numbers, just like at end of roller you add a bonus to a stat but dont know how much it is).

this will still encourage personalization but eliminate the fucking ridiculous 'two rollers open for 10 hours to get mighty/good/good/mighty on a dwarf warrior' bullshit.
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Nov 20, 2001 8:24 am

No wonder you're bored to death. You're trying to build a perfect character right off the bat. Why not just totally eliminate rolling and have characters with all 100's right from the get go? What fun are characters with no flaws?


Yayaril
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Postby Grintor » Tue Nov 20, 2001 8:58 am

what fun are characters with flaws i ask you.

they arent. as a warrior mighty/good/good/mighty is the MINIMUM unless you want to have to look for a LOT of +stat gear vs. +hp and +hit/dam gear. dont ask dumb questions.


this is a game. it's supposed to be fun. make it take 18 hours to roll ACCEPTABLE stats and you immediately take the fun out.

i dare you to ask any game designer (i know a few btw) the same questions with the same facts and they'll laugh at you.

there are many things making this place a chore, and not a game. this is just one of them.
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Postby cherzra » Tue Nov 20, 2001 9:55 am

Excuse me... you can roll a decent character in an hour.

Yes, if you want a top row of all heroics, you may be rolling for two days. But then you know what you're doing it for.

You can easily get all mighties within an hour, which is way better than previous wipes, when you had to pray that your stats were decent and couldn't find out until level 20.

You can play a war with the minumum class stats, which are something like 75 65 65 80 no? You may be missing 10ac and 2hit and dam, but a crippled character? Far from it. Throw in a pbone helm, a pbone shield, some kraken leggings and some small +agi item and you're at 85 75 75 90... then get a gcd, voila, all 90's!
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Postby kiryan » Tue Nov 20, 2001 10:59 am

i think the roller is fine but it does serve to the experienced players and those with backgrounds in rolling characters (rpgs).

if you want to make it easier for new folks, dont eliminate the existing roller, rather add a pre-generated char option and display it prominently. have an experiened player roll up a template char (but not too lopsided statwise) for each class/race and dont offer the more difficult combos and home town to new players.

but seriously like that is our problem getting new players. retention is way more important. any idea how frustrating it is to spend several hours on a single level while some twink makes several in the same time? whats average time for a new player with skills to 40? 20 days? a twink is prolly around 4. the game is EXP till zone level then zone, but only if you know the right people or play a crucial class that is under populated. you cant even really explore because you will just get owned. where is the attraction for new people...
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Nov 20, 2001 11:42 am

actually Grintor, here is why

"i dare you to ask any game designer (i know a few btw) the same questions with the same facts and they'll laugh at you."

this is wrong. Those game designers are creating chars to be used to BEAT a game. To take from start to finish, and when they are done to erase the game and move on to the next one. Here, we are striving for playability, for longevity, and for variation. If we made every char the same, then every char would TRULY look the same (its already a bit that way now)..because they would all wear the same gear. With varied stats, it gives us more ability to have varied gear, varied chars, varied strengths and weaknesses, and adds an element that I personally very much enjoy.

Its for each persons own playing style to dictate. If you are a total powergamer that must have the absolute best to try to beat the game and be done. That is your perogitive. But not all play that way.

Some like more of a challenge, so for them, we have it the way it is. If you don't want that, roll away, the roller has some choices that fit for you.

-Gargamel.


------------------

Gargauth the Outcast
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Postby Grintor » Wed Nov 21, 2001 4:41 am

then explain to me, gargamel...

everquest
dark age of camelot
asheron's call
etc.....

it works here.
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Postby Grintor » Wed Nov 21, 2001 4:42 am

oh yeah and it took me 12 hours to roll a paladin with mighty/good/avg/good....

12 hours?

and those are NOT good stats
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Postby Corth » Wed Nov 21, 2001 5:09 am

Heh... you shouldn't be able to get perfect stats.. or even near perfect..

It would be nice if more items would be considered spanky because of stat bonuses. Eq currently is very one-dimensionaly.. people just care about hps, dmg, hit, sv_spell, and sv_breath. Making it easier to roll really good stats will just take tools from area makers who want to create spanky items which aren't necessarily limited to the above categories.

Corth
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Postby Guest » Wed Nov 21, 2001 6:48 am

If you talk to the creaters of those online games Grintor (which I have), they are not creating a nopwipe environment, which we are trying to do here.

Making stats as you wish would only make that more of an imposibility.

------------------

Gargauth the Outcast
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:14 am

I can roll you a mighty/mighty/mighty/mighty of any race and class in under an hour... works every time.

I only have 80 dex, I'm missing 2 hitroll... My con is only 90... is my character 'unacceptable' as you call it?
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Postby Grintor » Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:40 am

jesus christ people, pay more attention.

i never once said you needed perfect stats. however anyone new to the game who rolls mighty/avg/mundane/good will have a seriously hard time. do not overexaggerate the point.

everquest is not a pwipe environment, neither is dark age of camelot. what they have done is speed up the process to get your ass in the game pronto. cherzra, your situation is unique. i have three trolls, two barbs, two dwarfs, paladins, drow, etc. only race i havent rolled one or more of this wipe is yuan ti. only ONCE did i get a roll better th an good/mundane/mundane/good on a warrior class. since dex=hitroll, which you need a lot of to hit and starting out you need badly - since agi=ac, which means something now - since str=damage, whichs makes a HUGE difference at the low levels -- and since con is the all important factor into how many hp a warrior gets ALL of these stats are important and should be as close as possible to max after rolling for that race.


everquest averages 500,000 people online at anyone time. DAOC is getting closer and closer to that. a lot of players have never come back to the mud from everquest. regardless of it's lack of an overall storyline and it's other social problems, it's a freakin balanced game AND it hooks it's players into the game in less than 10 minutes after installing it.

and even in these games when you pick a race/class combo you have different minimums for the combo and can distribute your points any way you see fit. they highlight for you and help you in creation to tell you which attributes they are prob best in, but you do not HAVE to go that route, which means you CAN individualize. where are there any helpfiles, clearly outlined for anyone new to the game upon creation, to guide as to what the recommended minimums to play comfortably are?

i have a ton of chars rolled this wipe. none except my troll have excellent stats naked and that roll only took about 10 mins on an autoroller. on the same autoroller with ONLY asking for mighty/avg/avg/good for a human paladin and two connections open it took 18 hours and 42 minutes.

how can you honestly expect people to play this game if they have to wait 18 hours to actually play it?
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Postby Grintor » Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:43 am

***It would be nice if more items would be considered spanky because of stat bonuses. Eq currently is very one-dimensionaly.. people just care about hps, dmg, hit, sv_spell, and sv_breath. Making it easier to roll really good stats will just take tools from area makers who want to create spanky items which aren't necessarily limited to the above categories.
****

how is this different than what the mud is now corth? the game has always been about levels and loot. my god look at all the 'tanks are just meatshields, hp are king' conversations. or about how warriors want their hit/dam upped?

everquest is very very much like this game, prob something that can be credited to aradune.
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Postby Corth » Wed Nov 21, 2001 9:24 am

I dont know if you got my point...

if every warrior has great str,con,dex, and agi, why would they ever consider wearing item A which is +2dmg +9agi, when they could wear item B which is +3dmg? When everyone has great stats, eq is measured solely in hps and hit/dmg. Thus, item B is "best in game", until a new zone comes out with item C which is 4dmg. and now suddenly item C is best in game and nobody wants item B (and perhaps they dont goto the zone where item B is anymore). In an ideal situation, both item A and B would be desired, for different reasons.

The last thing we want is to see every high level player of a particular class wearing identical eq...

That being said, you make a very good point when you say that the stat roller should at least always roll decent stats. A friend of mine rolled a druid as his first character and ended up being level 46 with something like a 55 con. On the other hand, he made sure to get really good stats on his next character... so maybe it can just be considered a learning experience. This area is debateable.. but yah, its kind of cruel to make people learn the importance of certain stats the hard way Image

Corth
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Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 21, 2001 1:27 pm

seems to me your just frustrated with not being able to get the stats possible.

i say that because thats what predefined stats then stat bonuses creates. a system where every character has the same starting point. thats boring and takes some variety out of the game. it wouldnt hurt to make char rolling easier for new folks (offer prerolled above average characters, in terms of scores not pbase stats.), but i definitely dont think we need to throw the existing system out and/or force all the existing chars to adopt a model where everyone has the same starting stats.

All those games you mention are commercial and take special cares to make things really easy so that anyone can pay and play and get enjoyment. thats not sojourn. its not commercial, its not trying to be everything to everyone, its not attractive to housewives with no game experience. its goals is not to sell subscriptions. your comparing apples to oranges bud.

it takes a special person to play sojourn. dont forget that you basically got to know or learn how to program your client in order to really play. if your unable to comprehend and are turned off by trying to roll a char, your prolly never going to make it on sojourn.
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Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 21, 2001 2:05 pm

500,000... try 50,000. there were only 30 or so servers when i left in may and each server at peak times might top 2500 online players.

i agree with you that eq is too one dimensional. only way i see to fix that is any new piece of eq that is "better" than an existing piece needs to have major negatives. that will also help with escalation i think. if you were to put a -25 con +90 hp ring in the game youd get a lot of variety in eq. most folks couldnt wear 2 and keep their con notch, others going to come up with inventive ways to wear it and keep their con notch. a 4 dam ring with -18 str might shake a few eq sets up.

-con and -str tradeoffs for hps makes the most sense to me but will make the hp gap greater between races like grey elf and dwarf clerics... not sure that is good, but if you give massive minus to int/wis people just going to take it off before memming. that doesnt really give us eq variety, just some inventive scripting. maybe a 85 hp ring with HALFLING STR and -9 agility. just a thought. for all intensive purposes does int/wis affect casters cept during mem? would you conduct battles with 25 int/wis if you could change back to 100 int/wis when you mem?
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Postby Tuga » Wed Nov 21, 2001 2:12 pm

Why cant we have a alternative solution to this problem?

On one side we have the problem that unless we have good stats in the begining, its just not gonna be a good experience and so, the very new players will give up.

On the other side we have, if we upped the roller stats we gonna have most of the experienced players looking like fotocopies of each other.

I say, make all noob eq (the eq that pops when ye create a char) +4 str, dex, agi, con ,etc ect, so when ye start your real stats still what they are but with eq it comes out to mighty, might, mighty, might.

my £0.015 ~ $0.02
Tuga the Sunless Troll
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Postby Shaylot » Wed Nov 21, 2001 3:20 pm

The biggest problem for nubi's with the roller is the timeout. The problem with stats is not a nubi problem in my mind.

Coming from an other mud I have showed 4 other players Sojourn. 3 of them timed out during name picking.

New players just make on to lvl 4 or something, figure out the basics, get the roller here and make a new char. Mabye that is sad, but I don't think it scares them away like the timeout do. Getting them in right away is a big issue.
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Postby Gakka » Wed Nov 21, 2001 3:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B>I too have suggestions for classes that should be available during character creation:

Drummer
Baseball player
Acrobat
Politician
Street cleaner


Yayaril</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wakka da drummer AAAAAAAAAAR. Bwa' ga Gakka Boom. Dwaf gra dagga ad. Image
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Postby Grintor » Wed Nov 21, 2001 6:24 pm

btw our warriors are all already photocopies.

how many use ebony? have sunstones or tattoos? used tf chains?

i mean there are a LOT of other combos to use, but everyone uses these. why? cause it's the best regardless of your base stats.

my troll has 100/92/100/100 with her gear. that's not even max agi notch and that next notch would put me at -100 ac, but i dont sweat it.

all my other chars, including my ehchanter, only excel at one stat and the others are severely lacking.

sounds diverse to me.

personally when rolling a warrior i dont think the roller should roll below 80/60/60/75. but that's just me
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Postby kiryan » Thu Nov 22, 2001 6:02 am

ive spent about 20 hours rolling characters. thanks for that roller jaeron.

I never had a problem rolling 2 heroic stats where i wanted them, a 3rd mighty stat and a 4th good in the other two areas i wanted good stats. I know a couple of the chars i rolled maxed out stat wise, one of them has two 74s in int/cha in addition to great stats in str/agi/dex/con.

the roller is not hard, its easier if you get an auto roller, and its more important to know the eq in the game. if every caster had access to 30 hp 18 agi bracelets, i wouldnt bother to roll a good agility. new folks dont have that kind of information, but i dont see how it detracts from their enjoyment of the game unless they are the type of person that must have the strongest character. if thats the case, they just have to roll a new one and start over or quit. you really cant satisfy that type of person anyhow.
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Postby rylan » Thu Nov 22, 2001 6:00 pm

It took me 2 hours to roll rylan.. I found casters harder to roll since I need good stats for int/wis and str/con with reasonable agi/dex
Anyway.. I got something like
94/64/70/93
36/98/88/64

Now, my warrior alt I rolled w/o the auto roller and got
heroic/heroic/mighty/heroic
after 20 min. Its all luck Image
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Postby Iltavera » Thu Nov 22, 2001 10:08 pm

Ummm, just to add my 2 cents about getting stats on char creation.... In about 1.5 hrs of rolling, i got my paly to heroic/mighty/heroic/mighty without bonuses. Now granted my charisma and power were low, but I'm perfectly happy with that. 4 pieces of equipment and I'm perfect all across the top. Sounds like bad luck for some of you others. Or good luck for me. But it is possible.
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Postby Zen » Fri Nov 23, 2001 12:28 am

I've had to roll several new characters recently. Either for storage or helping my wife roll up. It seems much harder to get rolls that are acceptable, IE good or better in your primary stats for hitter types, than it was when I first rolled up right after beta opened. I've heard rumors of the max point spread being lowered, but I dunno.

-Zen
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Postby Grintor » Fri Nov 23, 2001 5:42 am

kiryan---

bro i've said three times now, i USED AN AUTOROLLER and had TWO SIMULTANEOUS CONNECTIONS OPEN while autorolling. it still took 18 hours on a char. it should NEVER take this long, ever.

that's my main point.

the char was a paladin, stats i was after was 6/4/4/6...mighty/avg/avg/mighty
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Postby Salen » Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:35 am

You mean you can roll more than 1 time? Gee maybe I shoulda thought of that oh well.
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Postby Yasden » Fri Nov 23, 2001 5:59 pm

STR: 97 AGI: 94 DEX: 83 CON: 90

Actually, the roller now is WAY better than on Soj1....you could spend even longer than that trying to get all GOODS....which may all only be 75's.....

I got those stats above in 45 minutes.....if you learn your last notches for your race/class, you learn what numbers you need to look for, what numbers you can work with later on.

I don't wear any stat eq at the moment, pbone shield doesn't notch con cause last troll warrior con notch is 90. I could use agi/dex eq for hitroll/ac bonuses, but why? Makes my char less than perfect. I'd rather work with what I have, learn to adapt to these stats. My first troll warrior on Soj1 had 26 Dexterity...I fumbled constantly. I learned from that mistake and rerolled....but take the major stats you need and work for the best in those. Everyone wants their max con notch...and if you don't, there's a bazillion pieces of con eq out there for any slot. But everyone knows that warriors want str, mages int, clerics wis, rogues dex. Work with those primary stats, the rest have lesser importance. The game isn't about how hard you hit, or how fast you mem, it's about how well you do your job with what you have.

Nuff said,

Deathmagnet
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Postby Ensis » Fri Nov 23, 2001 6:47 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Grintor:
<B>kiryan---

bro i've said three times now, i USED AN AUTOROLLER and had TWO SIMULTANEOUS CONNECTIONS OPEN while autorolling. it still took 18 hours on a char. it should NEVER take this long, ever.

that's my main point.

the char was a paladin, stats i was after was 6/4/4/6...mighty/avg/avg/mighty</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seriously, after the way it used to be im surprised anyone is complaining at all..if anything i think its almost TOO easy to get good stats now.

Seeing your naked ac/hit/dam pretty much shows you what your strength/dex/agility are at, and if you get a couple con items you can guage your starting con as well. How much easier do you want it to get?

E
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Postby Grintor » Sat Nov 24, 2001 2:35 am

no people, it's harder now!

cause now AC MEANS SOMETHING

DEX MEANS SOMETHING

since ac means something, that means AGI MEANS SOMETHING..

no longer is it just str/con for warriors
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Postby Kribble » Sun Nov 25, 2001 4:54 pm

I wish I could remember his name, but the Wonderful roleplaying Troll last wipe that had a 30something constitution and got to 50th level ANYWAY... you rool.

Role stats, accept imperfect stats, take the challenge.
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Postby Zoldren » Sun Nov 25, 2001 5:38 pm

Uagr had a 53 natural con last whip and made it to 46 Image was fun always getting made fun of
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Postby moritheil » Sun Nov 25, 2001 11:54 pm

I think those of us that aren't die-hard powermudders have realized and accepted that we aren't going to be perfect. Plus, this is part of a big push to make +stats eq mean something. Just my two pieces of bark.

- Mori, the 100str 100agi 100con 100wis * int with eq (and crappy without) druid
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Postby Kolma » Mon Nov 26, 2001 1:09 am

Oomphf!

Think there's a strong possibility that Grintor might re-roll his first-born.
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Nov 26, 2001 5:39 pm

If we could all get perfect stats with no problem, what in the world is all this +stat equipment in the game for?
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Postby kiryan » Mon Nov 26, 2001 11:01 pm

btw, grintor... Paladins have a lot of stat requirements which brings down their averages. They require 50 wis 40 int in addition to warrior comparable requirements in melee skills. Thats 360 in base stats required for a paladin and about 270 required for a warrior. If you were looking for the same stats you can roll for a WARRIOR, then yea its going to be rough.

You think thats bad, try rolling a squids, they have it worse (425 with a 50 con req... when was the last time you rolled a char with 50 con).

Taking 18 hours on two connections to roll the stats you wanted ought to say something to you. Your asking for too much or not rolling smart. A mighty might fair mighty might get disqualified by your roller, but 3 pumps into fair and you could be set.

After spending two hours trying to roll a mighty mighty mighty mighty with no hits, i decided to downgrade my expectations and change my technique. Here is the basic technique i use. Roll a good char, name it. Then try to roll a character better than that. Rinse and repeat (dont forget to delete) until your satisfied that your not going to roll better (for me thats 30 minutes without a hit). If you want a particular name, gods are pretty accomodating at renaming.

Just curious, what are you going to do if you die a bunch of times, lose permanent hitpoints, or roll really badly on level and end up with below average hps? Thats one reason i never put too much effort into rolling. great stats dont make your char particulary uber, good luck when rolling hps, great eq, and good friends make far more difference.

BTW, isnt it illegal to have 2 connections to the mud open and rolling? or is it just illegal to roll while playing?
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Postby Grintor » Sun Dec 02, 2001 2:54 am

it's not illegal to have two connections to roll. they talked about this right after the mud reopened.

it is illegal to roll while playing, or to have more than two open.

i would reroll my first born if she only scored a mundane strength!

and kiryan, the max notches for human warriors/paladins is between 85-90. that's all i was looking for in str/con and i was looking for AVERAGE in agi/dex.

those are not stellar stats folks. my troll i rolled great stats on. my dwarf warrior took 7 hours for mighty/avg/good/mighty/bad/bad/mundane/bad

that's still sad. creating a char should take no more than 10 minutes at max.
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Postby Jorus » Sun Dec 02, 2001 10:07 pm

Grintor,

You can't be serious in saying you had so much difficulty rolling better than

mighty average average mighty poor poor poor poor

Did you have any other requirements on your roll?

I rolled a paladin as well, and aimed for slightly better stats. I ended up getting

"herioc good average perfect mundane mundane fair mundane" after the bonuses.

Sure, it took me a while, but that's going to happen with classes that have lots of requirements. Rolling similarly well with my mage was drop-dead easy, as there were more stats that could go "poor".

I think with regards to the roller, so long as each class has minimums that make them playable, and newbies who arrive are easily able to find out which stats are needed for playability, there isn't much to gripe about.

The "minimum" for a paladin (Minimum stats: STR:65, DEX:65, AGI:75,CON:75, POW:0, INT:40, WIS:50, CHA:0), while not perfect, are playable. Stats just above that are better, and quite easy to obtain.


Regards,
Jorus
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Postby Grintor » Mon Dec 03, 2001 1:01 am

yes i can jorus, and this is the problem people.

the roller is too freakin random.

i always set up any fighter class on the roller to look for mighty/avg/avg/mighty and set the other 4 stats to 0 cause i dont care about them. my first troll took quite a while.

then when i struggled through the first 10 levels cause my hitroll was 4 and my ac was 60 i rerolled and went for mighty/good/good/mighty as base. this helped a LOT and the first 10 levels went faster.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Dec 03, 2001 3:32 pm

so the random roller is too random? Right. And are you sure you're not prejudiced against +stat eq?

To clarify, are you fundamentally against the idea of needing stat eq?
Grintor
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Postby Grintor » Tue Dec 04, 2001 4:06 am

no, i'm against the fact that the roller is not friendly to new-to-the-game newbies.

newbies thinks to self 'ok i rolled troll. troll is strong but dumb. i got a mighty/avg/mundane/good. that looks right i'll keep him!'

10 levels higher...

new friend1 tells newbie 'reroll...'
new friend2 tells newbie 'reroll...'

etc...
Grintor
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Postby Grintor » Tue Dec 04, 2001 4:08 am

oh and moritheill..

how much equipment is readily available to the pre 20's newbies (new to the game) that is +agi and +dex that is not hand-me-downs or require a quest that has the newbie running from zk to cp to em as a paladin to get?


didnt i hear that miax was looking for ways to attract new players? getting rid of how ridiculously long it takes to initially get INTO the game and not have to reroll several times later is a good start.
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Postby Nida » Tue Dec 04, 2001 4:26 am

I didn't roll the best stats when I started. I rolled pretty well-- one or two mighties; the rest were good or lower, mostly avg/mundane-- but not fantastically. Maybe it's just 'cause I'm not a twink like some of the newbies (not just alts, I don't think) I see running around, but I've had fun with my "pathetic" stats and I rather enjoy the different options the stats offer when I want to tweak my eq a bit. Allows me to bitch more about not notching meditate, too. :P

-Nida "49165 s remain in my studies" Rocheron
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:20 am

thanks for clarifying. I think that actually quite a bit of +stats eq is given away or sold to shop... I see glowing green cap in shop all the time, I see obs scimitar sometimes too. Newbies check these more often than we do, hopefully.
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Postby Nikelon » Sat Dec 08, 2001 5:40 pm

Seriously, doesn't rolling perfect stat chars take some of the fun out of the game? I rolled an invoker with perfect int and mundane con and everything in between for the other stats.

Now, I admit that the hps handicap is a little extreme (I'm lvl 19 with about 112 hp w/ eq), especially for a mage, but I think it adds a little more of a directed challenge to the game. It certainly holds the spirit of roleplay a bit better.

So when another invoker 4 levels lower than me has 50+ more hps than me, or when all of my friends tell me that I badly need to reroll, I simply wince and keep playing, looking for +hps gear, and ignoring the +int gear, and all-around having fun...not trying to trample the gods themselves with my mighty mage tanking abilities...

This is my (worthless) opinion...sorry for reviving the dead topic and restating the said points again, but I am EXTREMELY bored and the topic was only 4 days old...hmph...*mutter*...

-Nikelon
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Postby Snizzle » Sun Dec 09, 2001 11:20 pm

While Soj was down, I quite often did the mud thing on a RP mud. There was some hack and slash, but over all it was designed around RP. It was loads of fun.

Recently I felt that I was established enuff on Soj3 to invite my friends over for a tour of our near legendary mud. The invite was very well recieved - mostly because the 10 or so players I invited were eager for something new, had me for a guide. None had ever played here before. I told them about the new RP staff - the coming blend of hard core zoning and RP.


Only one out of those 10 ppl that tried to roll characters actually made it to the mud.

They werent so inexpereinced that they couldnt figure out that stats are important on a Soj3 type mud. Agi, Dex those things count the clues are all there in the roller.

They left in disgust at how hard they had to work at getting at least 4 mighty's. (Cherz, I respect your opinion - but I cant duplicate your luck). Any new player that has a inkling of previous experience can figure out stats are important. They dont think of player diversity, or how eq can equalize thier lackings. All they want is a boost - a chance, a mere hint at advantage before they get involved. New players are walking blindly into a darkened doorway. The only thing thet have control of is that roller. The rest they might figure out if they stay. First however, they have to finish rolling a char.

I was told that the group had over 72 hours auto-rolling total. Of course some wanted a bit better than 4 mightys. Still, its pretty hard to convince new players to join our aging mud population when you have to dedicate so much time and effort to play - a game.

When I tried to explain, in my Soj3 fervor - why its important that the roller be fairly difficult. It occured to me that Soj3 spends a lot of effort in trying to limit/guide/balance what players we already have, instead of attracting new often vibrant players to experience our great mud enviroment.

The character roller is *the* door mat in front of our house. It doesnt really say: welcome.

With that said - I decided to see for myself. 7 hours later still searching for 3 mighties and a heroic.
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Postby Xebes » Mon Dec 10, 2001 4:40 am

*rofl* That's the whole point, Sniz... it doesn't really matter if you don't have _perfect_ stats. How you are as a player makes more difference than stats ever will.

Xebes the enchanter has a 69 natural strength, a 40ish natural wisdom, and about a 35 natural charisma. And I wouldn't trade those for heroics, not ever.

Can we lose the powermudder feeling that "my character will suck if I don't have all 100's or as close as physically possible?" Please?


I rolled my character in 15 minutes. Sure, maybe I won't be as uber as the guy that spent 50 hours rolling, but I have something to RP around.

You said your friends came from an RP environment, how much of one though?... in my opinion, shooting for 4 mightys as far as stats goes ain't really RP (every character is NOT superman!)

A character's stats define some basic attributes of how the character is going to behave.

Anyways, stuff like this is one of my personal rants :-P
So take it with a grain of salt, but the stats you're aiming for aren't necessary.

------------------
-<(#)>- Xebes makes your heart start to race REAL FAST!
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Postby Vipplin » Mon Dec 10, 2001 11:08 am

Snizzle! Kudos on your recruiting efforts, first of all Image

Yes, the roller is frustrating if you're trying to get stats that are by definition statistically unlikely. For someone who wants 4 mighties, it is time-consuming. For someone who just wants playable stats with rp flair, it takes no time at all Image

Vadian
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Dec 10, 2001 4:28 pm

Actually, nothing against anybody here, but I think looking for the perfect stats is like sitting around rolling a character for actual D&D... the kind of rolling where you roll your dice a couple of hundred times to make sure you have stats like 18.82, 17, 17, 18, 13, 17, 16, 15. I'm just thankful this isn't one of the muds that allows you to roll your stats three times max then sticks you with whatever you get on your last roll.

I have far from perfect stats, and to tell you the truth, I think it's a little insulting when people ask me what my natural this or that is, then ask why in the world I didn't reroll. Why? You mean you can't play with stats like mine? They're not perfect, but they're not too terribly awful, either. My biggest problem is that I've lost four points of con to ress drain, and now I HAVE to wear one piece of con gear in order to maintain max con notch (we all know grey elf hit points, imagine if I didn't have max con ::shudder: Image. The thing is, though, that even as a grey elf rogue, even with less than perfect stats, I STILL manage to go to some major zones, and now that I'm learning them a bit, I even manage to live through them!

Oooooooohhhhh, you know what that means? If so many other people couldn't possibly play with my less than perfect stats, and CERTAINLY couldn't do as good a job as I do, then I must really and truly rock! Yea me!!

Okay, maybe not. Seriously though, people can't really brag because they have perfect stats. The people that can brag are the ones who take their handicaps and still manage to excel. Having the GM look the other way while you roll perfect 18's isn't roleplay, and neither is throwing up your hands because you can't get all four mighty's on the top row... especially not when there's so much little gear that can easily max the most required stats. When I roll a character I don't use an autoroller anymore, they tend to toss out rolls that I would keep, simply because one particular stat might be a bit low while all the rest are great, but I know I can max that stat easily with gear most people on the mud have easy access to. And I'm not talking about a circlet of lightning bolts to max con on a level 1 char, either, I'm talking about actual newbie gear that's given away like candy.

Snizzle, tell your friends to roll again, they don't have to roll perfect stats, they just have to get into the game. They can reroll again later, if they decide they want to stay. Be sure to tell them that one of the greatest things about Sojourn is that it offers a bit more challenge than many other muds do, if they're up to a challenge, that is. ::nudge, nudge:: Tell them that less than perfect stats can be worked around. When they get in find out what their stats are, ask around and find out which easily gotten pieces can help iron out any little disabilities they might have and where you can find them. If nothing else, ask me. If I don't have the gear on me or in storage, I'll help you procure it.

Ashiwi, the grey elf rogue with less than perfect stats who tanked Thrym from pretty hurt to dead and lived just for the bragging rights.

You gsay, "rescue?"
Lonel gsays, "There isn't anybody left to rescue."
You feel something warm and wet running down your leg.

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