I know many peopel think Rangers are just a pain in the ass with all the stuff they have already but hey. I'm not complaining about it :P
I was just wondering about an idea for a high circle spell quest. I mean we're casters and we have no real significant quests to do for our characters aside from the Windsong quest, which is a hell of a quest in itself, and I still have no clue about the proc bow (if it is a quest or a mob load).
I would love to see a spell quest for something that a ranger can really benifit from spell wise besides utility spells. Call lightning is great but hell, I hardly ever use it while tossin out vollys of arrows. To stop in mid volley to cast call lightning makes really no sense because it takes away from the overal damage I am dealing out just to cast call lightning, which really doesn't do all that much for me.
How about a quest for a spell that lets me do somehting like summon the spirits of the wilderness to smite my foes? Heh or something like the chocobo charge thing in Final Fantasy, except that it summons a unicorn that knocks a mob on its ass and does decent damage with its horn.
Or even a better utility spell if you wanna keep ranger spells mainly for utility as they pretty much are now. Give us something like GRP that casts barkskin, sense life, detect invis, bless, and protection from animals all at the same time. Or how bout a quest for a ranger full heal or vitality?
Just a few of the spell ideas rollin around in my noggin.
Kallinar
c 'Moo' you
Spell quest for rangers?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>I want to see rangers get haste as their 10th circle spell.
I am damn tired of hasting them. It's just annoying.
Just make the quest worthy of a spell of that magnitude.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That was another idea rollin around in my head for the utility side :P
<B>I want to see rangers get haste as their 10th circle spell.
I am damn tired of hasting them. It's just annoying.
Just make the quest worthy of a spell of that magnitude.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That was another idea rollin around in my head for the utility side :P
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>I want to see rangers get haste as their 10th circle spell.
I am damn tired of hasting them. It's just annoying.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I thought most hitters had haste-eq now?
<B>I want to see rangers get haste as their 10th circle spell.
I am damn tired of hasting them. It's just annoying.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I thought most hitters had haste-eq now?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kallinar:
<B>Haste eq? in S3?
What? Where? When?How?!
:P
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Emerald longsword and gray suede boots?
Seriously, there is at least one haste eq that I know of, which most hitters in my guild wear.
I don't even mem haste anymore.. Not that I ever did!!
/Jegzed - Haste is a fucking necro spell.
<B>Haste eq? in S3?
What? Where? When?How?!
:P
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Emerald longsword and gray suede boots?
Seriously, there is at least one haste eq that I know of, which most hitters in my guild wear.
I don't even mem haste anymore.. Not that I ever did!!
/Jegzed - Haste is a fucking necro spell.
Uhh... no vit or fheal.
The GRP idea is neat, but the spells really have no link to each other - what does sense life have to do with barkskin or protection from animals?
Considering that our 9th circle spell is quite possibly the worst area spell around, I doubt they're going to give us Nature's Fury, and I wouldn't want it. We're hitters with a few bonus utility spells.
Haste in 10th circle... no surprise that anybody who has played a ranger for much time at all likes this idea. We liked this idea back on Soj1, Toril, Soj2 and now on Soj3. Self only haste effect, and by all means make it quested.
Of course, with archery becoming the primary means of attack for rangers, perhaps something more similar to 3rd Edition D&D's spell True Strike would be appropriate. True Strike grants the caster a single bonus of +20 to their next attack. That'd be kinda weak in Sojourn, but y'all get the idea.
Or, while on the topic of possible spells, perhaps a quested 10th circle spell that lets us specifically nuke those goddam missile shields. They're not getting chipped away like it was mentioned long ago they would, so alternatively a spell that lets us... sunder the enchantment.
Oh well, these really are for the most part hypothetical ideas. There are other classes far more requiring tweaks and upgrades than rangers - bards come to mind. But we rangers can dream. :P
Sylvos
The GRP idea is neat, but the spells really have no link to each other - what does sense life have to do with barkskin or protection from animals?
Considering that our 9th circle spell is quite possibly the worst area spell around, I doubt they're going to give us Nature's Fury, and I wouldn't want it. We're hitters with a few bonus utility spells.
Haste in 10th circle... no surprise that anybody who has played a ranger for much time at all likes this idea. We liked this idea back on Soj1, Toril, Soj2 and now on Soj3. Self only haste effect, and by all means make it quested.
Of course, with archery becoming the primary means of attack for rangers, perhaps something more similar to 3rd Edition D&D's spell True Strike would be appropriate. True Strike grants the caster a single bonus of +20 to their next attack. That'd be kinda weak in Sojourn, but y'all get the idea.
Or, while on the topic of possible spells, perhaps a quested 10th circle spell that lets us specifically nuke those goddam missile shields. They're not getting chipped away like it was mentioned long ago they would, so alternatively a spell that lets us... sunder the enchantment.
Oh well, these really are for the most part hypothetical ideas. There are other classes far more requiring tweaks and upgrades than rangers - bards come to mind.
But we rangers can dream. :PSylvos
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Klurg:
<B>But jegzed haste on command really dont cut it not to mention they are too ugly to wear if u have some kinda decency!
/Klurg</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haste on command = 1 more haste that I don't have to cast
<B>But jegzed haste on command really dont cut it not to mention they are too ugly to wear if u have some kinda decency!
/Klurg</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haste on command = 1 more haste that I don't have to cast
Here here Sylvos.
I like the missile shield nuke Idea too..Hadn't thought of that till I remembered forgetting to glance a mage to check if he had one up.
CRACK CRACK CRACK *curse* There goes 9 arrows
I like the self haste thing too. Like mebby as a questable innate or somethin right?
And I do agree there are other classes that need their work (bards) but I just throw out the ideas I have for the classes I play the most. My singing can be used as a pest repellant.
Kallinar Moos a song so badly you feel as if yer ears are going to bleed.
I like the missile shield nuke Idea too..Hadn't thought of that till I remembered forgetting to glance a mage to check if he had one up.
CRACK CRACK CRACK *curse* There goes 9 arrows
I like the self haste thing too. Like mebby as a questable innate or somethin right?
And I do agree there are other classes that need their work (bards) but I just throw out the ideas I have for the classes I play the most. My singing can be used as a pest repellant.
Kallinar Moos a song so badly you feel as if yer ears are going to bleed.
The ranger self haste has been talked about for a long time. I believe there were even previous posts on it by Ladorn and Belleshel. However, I agree with Sylvos that it is just not necessary with the way the Ranger class has turned. Maybe a utility spell for bows is more in order. Although, rangers do get a spell that helps to disable missile shields since I have not yet seen a perm missile shielded mob (I may be wrong though). Maybe a spell making your aim more accurate or arrow hit harder. I know we all await someone finding the proc'ing bow but maybe this quest spell would be a new quest skill (as per someone elses post) that lights your arrow on fire when a fire source is in your inventory.
Just a thought.
Aderon
Just a thought.
Aderon
Only thing that's annoying about rangers is how common missile shields are. Pretty unrealistic. That and maybe defensive skills. Anyhow, otherwise they're fine. No major problems.
Raev
Hmm. Their quest weapon is kinda wimpy.
Where are those proc bows?
Oh wait, nm...
[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 02-19-2002).]
Raev
Hmm. Their quest weapon is kinda wimpy.
Where are those proc bows?
Oh wait, nm...
[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 02-19-2002).]
First off, I question a "need" for rangers to get a quest spell. An examination of the ranger spell list pretty much says that we're not really casters, we just have a bunch of spells for flavor (ie, most of the druid spells) and then a few lowbie spells that are useful to have so the non-casters doesn't need to bug the mages for DI or DM or druids for bark (though ranger bark is significantly less powerful then druid bark due to the nature specialization) during mems. Ranger spells are not as useful as paladin spells (which themselves lose a lot of usefulness in mid to high levels before they get 2 spells worth using at 41 and 46 respectively), something that's also true in the various editions of D&D the mud draws inspiration from. So adding to the spell list is something that should be done with care to avoid changing the role of ranger spells (ie, Occasional utility in most cases, combat utilities in 2 other cases with bark and bless) and disrupting the feel of the class, one that depends much more on skills and abilities then the token spells it receives.
That said, I'd LOVE to have some way to nuke those fuggin missile shields that's in a high circle so it doesn't just get eaten up by globe like thunderlance does. And no, dispel magic doesn't count since it would remove the silence on a mob if it hits but never does hit anyway since the class does not get the spellcast enchantment skill to make a number of the spells it has actually land on mobs
. Something like the archery modifying spells that were originally mentioned by Miax in his proposed ranger revision thread might also be useful, but I'm still of the opinion that those are mainly just fluff and eye candy without more basic abilities in place, namely being able to do something about those damn shields that all high level mages cast which make a class's primary skill and function useless.
------------------
"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
That said, I'd LOVE to have some way to nuke those fuggin missile shields that's in a high circle so it doesn't just get eaten up by globe like thunderlance does. And no, dispel magic doesn't count since it would remove the silence on a mob if it hits but never does hit anyway since the class does not get the spellcast enchantment skill to make a number of the spells it has actually land on mobs
. Something like the archery modifying spells that were originally mentioned by Miax in his proposed ranger revision thread might also be useful, but I'm still of the opinion that those are mainly just fluff and eye candy without more basic abilities in place, namely being able to do something about those damn shields that all high level mages cast which make a class's primary skill and function useless.------------------
"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
Oops. I started another thread on this lol. my bad.
Anyway. reason often given for the reason rangers don't have a quest spell is because they are not a primary casting class. Makes sense I guess.
But as far as where the ranger is going, Archery / melee still have their distinct places. Though I must admit that missile shield is kind of. . . crippling to the archery skill. I'll try, from time to time, dispell the damned mshield or f/cshield. . .but you know what? they're casters and are probably silenced. so, if I really mess up I dispel silence, or para, or whatever. So wasting my time on a ***** spell (five star) to mess up a group? naw. skip it
Still would love to see missile shield break down after 4-8 arrows ( thats 3 rounds, about what a stone skin would save) to make the skill more user friendly.
Hrmm thats all!
Lost
Anyway. reason often given for the reason rangers don't have a quest spell is because they are not a primary casting class. Makes sense I guess.
But as far as where the ranger is going, Archery / melee still have their distinct places. Though I must admit that missile shield is kind of. . . crippling to the archery skill. I'll try, from time to time, dispell the damned mshield or f/cshield. . .but you know what? they're casters and are probably silenced. so, if I really mess up I dispel silence, or para, or whatever. So wasting my time on a ***** spell (five star) to mess up a group? naw. skip it
Still would love to see missile shield break down after 4-8 arrows ( thats 3 rounds, about what a stone skin would save) to make the skill more user friendly.
Hrmm thats all!
Lost
You're right Kiryan, people will keep asking for more and more tricks and toys for their pet class. Giving rangers a haste spell does hinder the rogue hitters in the group, and they're not about to be given spells to cast.
Hence my request for something to deal with the missile shield. Any person who has zoned knows that in general, casting dispel magic on a caster mob is generally a bad idea? Chances are you won't dispel the mob's magic, but you'll instead dispel all those nifty little save-the-group spells like silence, hex, blind, etc...
Furthermore, while what Waelos said is true that melee and ranged have their places within a group, and despite my title of BladeDancer, the role of rangers has been shifted to that of the archer. There are very few spells the mobs cast that make a pc ineffective during a fight. Most of them can either be dispelled by a friendly group member(silenced mage/cleric), or wear off on the mob after a very short period of time(stoneskin).
Missile Shield COMPLETELY negates what has become the ranger's primary mode of attack. When bringing damage along for a group, if that damage is provided by a ranger, in any major fight with a mage you can't count on that damage. The ranger instead has to move to melee, causing the fight to take longer and possibly more spankage.
What is being asked for, is to allow a ranger who has brought their class to level 46+ be able to get, either by quest or by guild, a targeted dispel magic spell against missile shield. Nowhere was it asked to have a no-fail chance at the dispel, but allow the spell to have a decent chance to dispel just the missile shield.
Make us expend an arrow that is magical for the spell to work. Something like cast the spell, fire an arrow with the (magic) flag at the mob and then the dispel effect tries to click in. The arrow could be unharmed if you want, broken or even just removed from the game. Considering the Magical Arrows that most rangers know about, costing 100plat, it's not like this wouldn't make it a prohibitive spell to cast. And it would make having a magic arrow worth something.
Just a few ideas. The point about being able to dispel missile shield unbalancing the dynamic between ranger/rogue is a decent one to bring up, but the restrictive nature of the Sunder Shield spell (impromptu name) would make this inbalance negligible I think.
Sylvos
Oh and Gindipple - high level bard song does indeed give haste.
Aderon: I'm not awaiting someone finding it - I'm trying to find it :P
Hence my request for something to deal with the missile shield. Any person who has zoned knows that in general, casting dispel magic on a caster mob is generally a bad idea? Chances are you won't dispel the mob's magic, but you'll instead dispel all those nifty little save-the-group spells like silence, hex, blind, etc...
Furthermore, while what Waelos said is true that melee and ranged have their places within a group, and despite my title of BladeDancer, the role of rangers has been shifted to that of the archer. There are very few spells the mobs cast that make a pc ineffective during a fight. Most of them can either be dispelled by a friendly group member(silenced mage/cleric), or wear off on the mob after a very short period of time(stoneskin).
Missile Shield COMPLETELY negates what has become the ranger's primary mode of attack. When bringing damage along for a group, if that damage is provided by a ranger, in any major fight with a mage you can't count on that damage. The ranger instead has to move to melee, causing the fight to take longer and possibly more spankage.
What is being asked for, is to allow a ranger who has brought their class to level 46+ be able to get, either by quest or by guild, a targeted dispel magic spell against missile shield. Nowhere was it asked to have a no-fail chance at the dispel, but allow the spell to have a decent chance to dispel just the missile shield.
Make us expend an arrow that is magical for the spell to work. Something like cast the spell, fire an arrow with the (magic) flag at the mob and then the dispel effect tries to click in. The arrow could be unharmed if you want, broken or even just removed from the game. Considering the Magical Arrows that most rangers know about, costing 100plat, it's not like this wouldn't make it a prohibitive spell to cast. And it would make having a magic arrow worth something.
Just a few ideas. The point about being able to dispel missile shield unbalancing the dynamic between ranger/rogue is a decent one to bring up, but the restrictive nature of the Sunder Shield spell (impromptu name) would make this inbalance negligible I think.
Sylvos
Oh and Gindipple - high level bard song does indeed give haste.
Aderon: I'm not awaiting someone finding it - I'm trying to find it :P
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rylan:
Make missile shield only block a certain number of attacks.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That or make magical arrows more useful... hinthint.
Seriously, why not make them 50p a piece, break 1/4 the chance most arrows, give a small bonus to dam, and completely negate missile shield.
That's 5k for a full quiver, I don't think that'd be asking too much.
Twyl likes money sinks, even though he has no money.
Make missile shield only block a certain number of attacks.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That or make magical arrows more useful... hinthint.
Seriously, why not make them 50p a piece, break 1/4 the chance most arrows, give a small bonus to dam, and completely negate missile shield.
That's 5k for a full quiver, I don't think that'd be asking too much.
Twyl likes money sinks, even though he has no money.
The suggestion to make missile shield like stoneskin was in LAST incarnation. They said it was a valid idea and they'd look into it, and promptly shelved it for the remainder of the wipe (or so I assume; I never heard of it again).
Since archery has been "fine tuned" (read: downgraded) I presume it would still be a good idea.
Since archery has been "fine tuned" (read: downgraded) I presume it would still be a good idea.
if mshield fell after like 8 hits what if you have multiple rangers...thats like 1 round. Mmmm pointless spell.
I like the ideas of it blocking less and less arrows..maybe make a "chip" effect where holes begin to appear in the shield..and based on your skill you can hit those holes...with a touch of random luck. the more that hit the shield help to weaken it and create more holes.
I like the ideas of it blocking less and less arrows..maybe make a "chip" effect where holes begin to appear in the shield..and based on your skill you can hit those holes...with a touch of random luck. the more that hit the shield help to weaken it and create more holes.
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
good post sylvos. the thing i keyed in on was this... ranger melee worthless now that archery is in? nod thats not what you said, but in fact isnt that how rangers are treating it? was that the intent or was archery supposed to be uber damage in select situations?
perhaps missile shield is cast too often, i dont know. seems to me that in the time it takes you to dispel a missile shield, youd be better off hitting the mob with rangermelee. if you can insta dispel it then there really isnt any point to rangermelee. 30 attacks to chip missile shield away is what 60 with ranger melee? maybe im missing something, maybe you rangers got archery tunnel vision.
perhaps missile shield is cast too often, i dont know. seems to me that in the time it takes you to dispel a missile shield, youd be better off hitting the mob with rangermelee. if you can insta dispel it then there really isnt any point to rangermelee. 30 attacks to chip missile shield away is what 60 with ranger melee? maybe im missing something, maybe you rangers got archery tunnel vision.
Thanks to Gordex's mispost, this thread is revived! :P
Anyways, to Kiryan:
Ranger melee isn't useless. I have my own desires about it, but basically most old-school rangers you talk to would like the option to enhance our melee at the expense of our archery, because that's just what we're used to.
However, trying to post from an objective standpoint, ranger archery is greater than ranger melee. Therefore, it becomes more appealing to use archery when fighting an enemy than to use our melee. The problem lies in missile shield.
I may be wrong in this, and feel free to tell me if I am, but I don't think there is ANY spell in the game that completely negates or neutralizes a form of damage. Globe of Invulnerability(minor too) comes close, but there are still attack modes that can overcome it - 7th circle or greater spells. Missile Shield completely stops every arrow being fired, and even breaks them regularly upon impact. There is no way around it unless an Elementalist uses Thunderlance (I'm not sure how effective it is), someone lands a lucky dispel magic, or the spell duration ends.
I have no problem with the breaking. We can carve arrows for free, and the stock ranger arrow costs 2 and a half gold pieces each. If we were forced to 'chip' away a missile shield through firing say 12 arrows, we'd lose about 10 arrows or so but then be able to damage. Yes, 4 rangers could chip away at the missile shield in 1 round (3 shots each) but that's no different than stoneskin. A mob's stoneskin won't generally last past the 1st round of combat against a group. The warriors/rogues/othermelee take it down fast.
I like the chip idea better than the other one I proposed but it works too in context of the thread title. A spell that lets us nuke missile shield specifically. If it's 10th circle for us it is failable, and hell make us overcome some kind of save. Or an enchanted arrow to sunder the shield, I like that idea just as much.
If archery is intended to be a 'select situation damage' ability, then I can understand Mshield being the way it is. But from what I've read/been told/heard thru the grapevine - archery is supposed to be the primary attack mode for rangers. Melee is intended for situations where even rangers need to rescue or bash. If my presumption/hearsay/fact? is true, then I'd rather see a support for archery be given to rangers in favor of 10th circle haste.
Think that's all I've got to say, probably mis-stated something or forgot something, but that's life :P
Sylvos
Anyways, to Kiryan:
Ranger melee isn't useless. I have my own desires about it, but basically most old-school rangers you talk to would like the option to enhance our melee at the expense of our archery, because that's just what we're used to.
However, trying to post from an objective standpoint, ranger archery is greater than ranger melee. Therefore, it becomes more appealing to use archery when fighting an enemy than to use our melee. The problem lies in missile shield.
I may be wrong in this, and feel free to tell me if I am, but I don't think there is ANY spell in the game that completely negates or neutralizes a form of damage. Globe of Invulnerability(minor too) comes close, but there are still attack modes that can overcome it - 7th circle or greater spells. Missile Shield completely stops every arrow being fired, and even breaks them regularly upon impact. There is no way around it unless an Elementalist uses Thunderlance (I'm not sure how effective it is), someone lands a lucky dispel magic, or the spell duration ends.
I have no problem with the breaking. We can carve arrows for free, and the stock ranger arrow costs 2 and a half gold pieces each. If we were forced to 'chip' away a missile shield through firing say 12 arrows, we'd lose about 10 arrows or so but then be able to damage. Yes, 4 rangers could chip away at the missile shield in 1 round (3 shots each) but that's no different than stoneskin. A mob's stoneskin won't generally last past the 1st round of combat against a group. The warriors/rogues/othermelee take it down fast.
I like the chip idea better than the other one I proposed but it works too in context of the thread title. A spell that lets us nuke missile shield specifically. If it's 10th circle for us it is failable, and hell make us overcome some kind of save. Or an enchanted arrow to sunder the shield, I like that idea just as much.
If archery is intended to be a 'select situation damage' ability, then I can understand Mshield being the way it is. But from what I've read/been told/heard thru the grapevine - archery is supposed to be the primary attack mode for rangers. Melee is intended for situations where even rangers need to rescue or bash. If my presumption/hearsay/fact? is true, then I'd rather see a support for archery be given to rangers in favor of 10th circle haste.
Think that's all I've got to say, probably mis-stated something or forgot something, but that's life :P
Sylvos
From Miax's posts in the announcements section regrading archery
"The intention is that Archery becomes the preferred method of Combat for Rangers unless they Can't use it (like when tanking). I'll continue to tweak it and improve it until we reach that point, so all feedback is welcome!"
So yes, the intent was for archery to be the combat method for rangers to use whenever possible and not just in select situations like it is now . . . and for that matter last wipe. Missile shield basically has made ranged combat a reflection of what it was on Sojourn 2. Instead of a specialized tool that was only useful to take out big mobs that were isolated from smaller mobs that might wander in, it's now a specialized tool for taking out the small mobs that would wander in since they don't cast and the majority of the big mobs in zones do.
------------------
"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
"The intention is that Archery becomes the preferred method of Combat for Rangers unless they Can't use it (like when tanking). I'll continue to tweak it and improve it until we reach that point, so all feedback is welcome!"
So yes, the intent was for archery to be the combat method for rangers to use whenever possible and not just in select situations like it is now . . . and for that matter last wipe. Missile shield basically has made ranged combat a reflection of what it was on Sojourn 2. Instead of a specialized tool that was only useful to take out big mobs that were isolated from smaller mobs that might wander in, it's now a specialized tool for taking out the small mobs that would wander in since they don't cast and the majority of the big mobs in zones do.
------------------
"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
Give enchanters a spell to dispel missile shields. That'll solve the enchanter requests and ranger requests! Make it a 9th circle spell that has a 3-6* casting time. Have the chances of it landing work better than say...dispel magic. However...if the spell fails, throw in some lovely magic zappage for the group 
.
<832h/832H 130v/130V>
Malacar completes his spell..
Malacar utters the words 'Mordenkainen's arrow of missile shield dispelment'
*ZAP!*
Something with the spell goes awry, and the missile shield flares up, deflecting the arrow back at the group!
<682h/832H 130v/130V>
OUCH! That really did HURT!
Just an idea.
.<832h/832H 130v/130V>
Malacar completes his spell..
Malacar utters the words 'Mordenkainen's arrow of missile shield dispelment'
*ZAP!*
Something with the spell goes awry, and the missile shield flares up, deflecting the arrow back at the group!
<682h/832H 130v/130V>
OUCH! That really did HURT!
Just an idea.
Heh... Bigby's Eradicating Hand.
On another tangent, why not implement a questable ranger pet spell similar to mephits? Restring and reflag all the pets herbivores, and it takes care of that RP pet concern that sparked a few dozen posts a while back.
"Summon Wildlife"
This ranger spell summons a mount-flagged, level 1 pet for RP purposes.
Possible pets: rabbit, gopher, sparrow.
On another tangent, why not implement a questable ranger pet spell similar to mephits? Restring and reflag all the pets herbivores, and it takes care of that RP pet concern that sparked a few dozen posts a while back.
"Summon Wildlife"
This ranger spell summons a mount-flagged, level 1 pet for RP purposes.
Possible pets: rabbit, gopher, sparrow.
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
This is not directed at anyone in particular.
heres what im saying, you going to waste your time trying to dispel a missile shield or use melee attack? If you can dispel missile shield too easily then whats the point of missile shield and ranger melee? If you want to dispel missile shields at will, make ranger melee = warrior melee and gimp windsong.
Primary form of attack fine, people that dont forget they have other useful abilities will get far more out of their class. People that dont will whine about how they're underpowered and their misc abilities = squat. Since archery came in folks whing about how missile shield gimps them (how did you ever get along before?)
Ill toss this in just because i like to stir the pot and it seems people forget it all the time. specialty = few powerful game defining skills (enc, inv, clr), variety = unoteworthy (unless your a paladin).
heres what im saying, you going to waste your time trying to dispel a missile shield or use melee attack? If you can dispel missile shield too easily then whats the point of missile shield and ranger melee? If you want to dispel missile shields at will, make ranger melee = warrior melee and gimp windsong.
Primary form of attack fine, people that dont forget they have other useful abilities will get far more out of their class. People that dont will whine about how they're underpowered and their misc abilities = squat. Since archery came in folks whing about how missile shield gimps them (how did you ever get along before?)
Ill toss this in just because i like to stir the pot and it seems people forget it all the time. specialty = few powerful game defining skills (enc, inv, clr), variety = unoteworthy (unless your a paladin).
Fair enough Kiryan. But allow me to respond - the guy who uses sleep, summon insects and minor paralysis pseudo-regularly.
Utility is fine, and I love to be multi-dimensional. It's what I love about being a ranger - there's so much we can do. Sure a lot of it ain't glamourous or earth-shattering, but still cool when you think about it.
Nevertheless, and I don't know who has suggested we receive a !fail dispel ability. But speaking from someone who is regularly glancing at a mage mob while we're fighting, I would not stand there and try to dispel missile shield. I would instead assist with the melee, use my attempt at dispelling. If it works, great I disengage, switch to bow and commence firing. I'm sacrificing 1 or 2 rounds for a shot at greatly increasing my damage output.
Have you seen warriors/hitters who wield an ebony longsword until the mob is blinded, then switch to a higher damage/more effective weapon? In the case of rangers vs. missile shielded mobs, treat our melee as the ebony bladed longsword, and the archery as the other. Use melee until the desired effect has taken hold, then switch weapons. If desired effect never takes hold, spend fight using lower output weapon.
Speaking for myself, addressing what Kiryan said, I've stated that missile shield gimps the primary attack method of my class. There are all sorts of things that I can do when I can't use archery - from casting a dispel magic, to targetting followers with ranged fire (unless they too have been missile shielded), or just whack at the mob with my sword/dagger.
Oh, and please don't read this as a bitch about it being underpowered or anything, but the proc rate on windsong seems to be fairly low. I don't know numbers, but while the random wandering extra 3-6 attacks is handy when it happens it's hardly reliable. It's like relying upon a flamberge to make the difference in a fight.
As for dispelling something easily, we're talking about making it a 46th level spell. A ranger at 49th level gets 2 10th circle spells. Our quick chant is hardly exemplary, our spellcast skills are generally fairly low so casting anything longer than 1 or 2 star spells in combat can be tricky. Placing a spell in 10th circle that is designed to combat missile shield is hardly giving rangers an easy way to dispel the enchantment, and for rationalization I guess I'd just say that a level46 ranger could have a decent chance of learnign a way to overcome a level11(caster level) enchantment.
Just some thoughts from this neighborhood ranger.
Sylvos
Utility is fine, and I love to be multi-dimensional. It's what I love about being a ranger - there's so much we can do. Sure a lot of it ain't glamourous or earth-shattering, but still cool when you think about it.
Nevertheless, and I don't know who has suggested we receive a !fail dispel ability. But speaking from someone who is regularly glancing at a mage mob while we're fighting, I would not stand there and try to dispel missile shield. I would instead assist with the melee, use my attempt at dispelling. If it works, great I disengage, switch to bow and commence firing. I'm sacrificing 1 or 2 rounds for a shot at greatly increasing my damage output.
Have you seen warriors/hitters who wield an ebony longsword until the mob is blinded, then switch to a higher damage/more effective weapon? In the case of rangers vs. missile shielded mobs, treat our melee as the ebony bladed longsword, and the archery as the other. Use melee until the desired effect has taken hold, then switch weapons. If desired effect never takes hold, spend fight using lower output weapon.
Speaking for myself, addressing what Kiryan said, I've stated that missile shield gimps the primary attack method of my class. There are all sorts of things that I can do when I can't use archery - from casting a dispel magic, to targetting followers with ranged fire (unless they too have been missile shielded), or just whack at the mob with my sword/dagger.
Oh, and please don't read this as a bitch about it being underpowered or anything, but the proc rate on windsong seems to be fairly low. I don't know numbers, but while the random wandering extra 3-6 attacks is handy when it happens it's hardly reliable. It's like relying upon a flamberge to make the difference in a fight.
As for dispelling something easily, we're talking about making it a 46th level spell. A ranger at 49th level gets 2 10th circle spells. Our quick chant is hardly exemplary, our spellcast skills are generally fairly low so casting anything longer than 1 or 2 star spells in combat can be tricky. Placing a spell in 10th circle that is designed to combat missile shield is hardly giving rangers an easy way to dispel the enchantment, and for rationalization I guess I'd just say that a level46 ranger could have a decent chance of learnign a way to overcome a level11(caster level) enchantment.
Just some thoughts from this neighborhood ranger.
Sylvos
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sylvos:
<B>Fair enough Kiryan. But allow me to respond - the guy who uses sleep, summon insects and minor paralysis pseudo-regularly.
Utility is fine, and I love to be multi-dimensional. It's what I love about being a ranger - there's so much we can do. Sure a lot of it ain't glamourous or earth-shattering, but still cool when you think about it.
Nevertheless, and I don't know who has suggested we receive a !fail dispel ability. But speaking from someone who is regularly glancing at a mage mob while we're fighting, I would not stand there and try to dispel missile shield. I would instead assist with the melee, use my attempt at dispelling. If it works, great I disengage, switch to bow and commence firing. I'm sacrificing 1 or 2 rounds for a shot at greatly increasing my damage output.
Have you seen warriors/hitters who wield an ebony longsword until the mob is blinded, then switch to a higher damage/more effective weapon? In the case of rangers vs. missile shielded mobs, treat our melee as the ebony bladed longsword, and the archery as the other. Use melee until the desired effect has taken hold, then switch weapons. If desired effect never takes hold, spend fight using lower output weapon.
Speaking for myself, addressing what Kiryan said, I've stated that missile shield gimps the primary attack method of my class. There are all sorts of things that I can do when I can't use archery - from casting a dispel magic, to targetting followers with ranged fire (unless they too have been missile shielded), or just whack at the mob with my sword/dagger.
Oh, and please don't read this as a bitch about it being underpowered or anything, but the proc rate on windsong seems to be fairly low. I don't know numbers, but while the random wandering extra 3-6 attacks is handy when it happens it's hardly reliable. It's like relying upon a flamberge to make the difference in a fight.
As for dispelling something easily, we're talking about making it a 46th level spell. A ranger at 49th level gets 2 10th circle spells. Our quick chant is hardly exemplary, our spellcast skills are generally fairly low so casting anything longer than 1 or 2 star spells in combat can be tricky. Placing a spell in 10th circle that is designed to combat missile shield is hardly giving rangers an easy way to dispel the enchantment, and for rationalization I guess I'd just say that a level46 ranger could have a decent chance of learnign a way to overcome a level11(caster level) enchantment.
Just some thoughts from this neighborhood ranger.
Sylvos
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How about a questable ranger only sword that is not great in terms of melee (not bad either mind you) but procs dispell missile shield? This does a couple of things, 1. doesn't add a spell to rangers 2. adds to their choice of melee weapons a bit while making them trade off from better hit dam weapons for the proc 3. makes it a chance that they can then switch to archery mid fight.
Make the weapons hard to get.
Not sure it is the right solution since it still makes them choose melee vs. bow.
<B>Fair enough Kiryan. But allow me to respond - the guy who uses sleep, summon insects and minor paralysis pseudo-regularly.
Utility is fine, and I love to be multi-dimensional. It's what I love about being a ranger - there's so much we can do. Sure a lot of it ain't glamourous or earth-shattering, but still cool when you think about it.
Nevertheless, and I don't know who has suggested we receive a !fail dispel ability. But speaking from someone who is regularly glancing at a mage mob while we're fighting, I would not stand there and try to dispel missile shield. I would instead assist with the melee, use my attempt at dispelling. If it works, great I disengage, switch to bow and commence firing. I'm sacrificing 1 or 2 rounds for a shot at greatly increasing my damage output.
Have you seen warriors/hitters who wield an ebony longsword until the mob is blinded, then switch to a higher damage/more effective weapon? In the case of rangers vs. missile shielded mobs, treat our melee as the ebony bladed longsword, and the archery as the other. Use melee until the desired effect has taken hold, then switch weapons. If desired effect never takes hold, spend fight using lower output weapon.
Speaking for myself, addressing what Kiryan said, I've stated that missile shield gimps the primary attack method of my class. There are all sorts of things that I can do when I can't use archery - from casting a dispel magic, to targetting followers with ranged fire (unless they too have been missile shielded), or just whack at the mob with my sword/dagger.
Oh, and please don't read this as a bitch about it being underpowered or anything, but the proc rate on windsong seems to be fairly low. I don't know numbers, but while the random wandering extra 3-6 attacks is handy when it happens it's hardly reliable. It's like relying upon a flamberge to make the difference in a fight.
As for dispelling something easily, we're talking about making it a 46th level spell. A ranger at 49th level gets 2 10th circle spells. Our quick chant is hardly exemplary, our spellcast skills are generally fairly low so casting anything longer than 1 or 2 star spells in combat can be tricky. Placing a spell in 10th circle that is designed to combat missile shield is hardly giving rangers an easy way to dispel the enchantment, and for rationalization I guess I'd just say that a level46 ranger could have a decent chance of learnign a way to overcome a level11(caster level) enchantment.
Just some thoughts from this neighborhood ranger.
Sylvos
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How about a questable ranger only sword that is not great in terms of melee (not bad either mind you) but procs dispell missile shield? This does a couple of things, 1. doesn't add a spell to rangers 2. adds to their choice of melee weapons a bit while making them trade off from better hit dam weapons for the proc 3. makes it a chance that they can then switch to archery mid fight.
Make the weapons hard to get.
Not sure it is the right solution since it still makes them choose melee vs. bow.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by old depok:
<B>
How about a questable ranger only sword that is not great in terms of melee (not bad either mind you) but procs dispell missile shield? This does a couple of things, 1. doesn't add a spell to rangers 2. adds to their choice of melee weapons a bit while making them trade off from better hit dam weapons for the proc 3. makes it a chance that they can then switch to archery mid fight.
Make the weapons hard to get.
Not sure it is the right solution since it still makes them choose melee vs. bow. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good idea, good compromise. Dunno about implementability, but I like the idea. As long as it isn't straight dispel magic - the idea is to be able to nuke shield w/o nuking silence
Sylvos
<B>
How about a questable ranger only sword that is not great in terms of melee (not bad either mind you) but procs dispell missile shield? This does a couple of things, 1. doesn't add a spell to rangers 2. adds to their choice of melee weapons a bit while making them trade off from better hit dam weapons for the proc 3. makes it a chance that they can then switch to archery mid fight.
Make the weapons hard to get.
Not sure it is the right solution since it still makes them choose melee vs. bow. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good idea, good compromise. Dunno about implementability, but I like the idea.
As long as it isn't straight dispel magic - the idea is to be able to nuke shield w/o nuking silence Sylvos
-
kiryan
- Sojourner
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im way more in favor of giving them a spell or magic missile shield busting arrows than imping a hard to get sword that procs dispel missile shield.
we got weapons that proc bark, stone, dispel magic, fae/scarlet, blind, para, poison, and a few others im sure... dont you think its overdone a tad? Its neat that melee classes can gain some utility via weapons, but the utility gained is generally combat oriented and useful on every mob.
Missileshieldbusting is way to specific. Dispel magic would be a better candidate, but a useless weapon as sylvos mentions. the missile busting method should prolly be a spell, innate, or arrow/bow if it is considered for imp.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 03-08-2002).]
we got weapons that proc bark, stone, dispel magic, fae/scarlet, blind, para, poison, and a few others im sure... dont you think its overdone a tad? Its neat that melee classes can gain some utility via weapons, but the utility gained is generally combat oriented and useful on every mob.
Missileshieldbusting is way to specific. Dispel magic would be a better candidate, but a useless weapon as sylvos mentions. the missile busting method should prolly be a spell, innate, or arrow/bow if it is considered for imp.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 03-08-2002).]
Heh I still want my ferret!!!!!
That was another of my strings Mori :P
I posted this to get ideas rolling around for a Ranger to have a spell quest. It was not my intention to imply that I NEEDED anything else. Yes Misslie shields are a pain in my ass, so I would like to see some way to neutralize it on the MANY mobs that just happen to throw em up so I can use my bow more often. I'm not gonna max out my ranged/archery skills just to have archery for luring dammit. Rogues would benefit from it too when thrown weaponry goes in as thrown weapons will be missile weapons as well and bounce off the shield also. Some rogues would argue that their circle/backstab suits them just fine, but don't speak for all of the rogues in general because you don't know the general feeling about it yet because it is not in. I have a person that plays a rogue sitting next to me and mudding with me EVERY nite (Eza)and we tend to compare and contrast these ideas that I come up with. She agrees that the anti-missile shield thing is a great idea.
As for me,, as I stated before, This string was just to roll around ideas for something for rangers to do besides questing for Windsong and other eq. If I am not mistaken, all spellcasters but Rangers, Paladins, and Anti's get a spell quest or two.
I would love to see a spell quest implemented for the Holy/unholy knights as well. Something along the lines of this spell:
Bolt of Glory/Bolt of Unholiness
Area of effect: Victim
Agressive: Yes
Cumulative: No
Duration: Instantaneous
Class/Circle: Paladin/Anti-Paladin 9th (possibly 10th)
Type of spell: Invocation
Saving throw: None
By casting this spell the knight channels a bolt of divine energy against one creature. No attack roll is needed. Creatures struck suffer varying damage, depending on their plane of existance.
Creature type damage:
Prime Material Plane 6d6
Elemental 3d4
Undead 8d6
Deamon 10d6
(Note: this idea was taken from my Paladin's spell, Bolt of Glory, from the game Baldurs Gate II. I dunno the actual stats of the spell and whatnot in 3rd edition AD&D because I have never owned any of the 3rd edition books, and I no longer own any of the 2nd edition ones.)
As for rangers, I do like the missile shield nuke idea, and I like the summon creatures idea. (also known as summon familiar correct?)
Keep the ideas coming people. I like brainstorming for the greater good. When I come up with ideas for warriors and whatnot I will post them too cause I love this game and I just wanna try and help it evolve as everyone else wants to.
Kallinar
Moo
Oh and one more thing, put in Guild MOTD!!!!
That was another of my strings Mori :P
I posted this to get ideas rolling around for a Ranger to have a spell quest. It was not my intention to imply that I NEEDED anything else. Yes Misslie shields are a pain in my ass, so I would like to see some way to neutralize it on the MANY mobs that just happen to throw em up so I can use my bow more often. I'm not gonna max out my ranged/archery skills just to have archery for luring dammit. Rogues would benefit from it too when thrown weaponry goes in as thrown weapons will be missile weapons as well and bounce off the shield also. Some rogues would argue that their circle/backstab suits them just fine, but don't speak for all of the rogues in general because you don't know the general feeling about it yet because it is not in. I have a person that plays a rogue sitting next to me and mudding with me EVERY nite (Eza)and we tend to compare and contrast these ideas that I come up with. She agrees that the anti-missile shield thing is a great idea.
As for me,, as I stated before, This string was just to roll around ideas for something for rangers to do besides questing for Windsong and other eq. If I am not mistaken, all spellcasters but Rangers, Paladins, and Anti's get a spell quest or two.
I would love to see a spell quest implemented for the Holy/unholy knights as well. Something along the lines of this spell:
Bolt of Glory/Bolt of Unholiness
Area of effect: Victim
Agressive: Yes
Cumulative: No
Duration: Instantaneous
Class/Circle: Paladin/Anti-Paladin 9th (possibly 10th)
Type of spell: Invocation
Saving throw: None
By casting this spell the knight channels a bolt of divine energy against one creature. No attack roll is needed. Creatures struck suffer varying damage, depending on their plane of existance.
Creature type damage:
Prime Material Plane 6d6
Elemental 3d4
Undead 8d6
Deamon 10d6
(Note: this idea was taken from my Paladin's spell, Bolt of Glory, from the game Baldurs Gate II. I dunno the actual stats of the spell and whatnot in 3rd edition AD&D because I have never owned any of the 3rd edition books, and I no longer own any of the 2nd edition ones.)
As for rangers, I do like the missile shield nuke idea, and I like the summon creatures idea. (also known as summon familiar correct?)
Keep the ideas coming people. I like brainstorming for the greater good. When I come up with ideas for warriors and whatnot I will post them too cause I love this game and I just wanna try and help it evolve as everyone else wants to.
Kallinar
Moo
Oh and one more thing, put in Guild MOTD!!!!
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