Hasting

Archive of the Sojourn3 Ideas Forum.
Dalar
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Hasting

Postby Dalar » Wed Mar 27, 2002 8:34 am

On top of casting globe, glancing all tanks to see if they're stoned, and blurring, enchanters have to haste. I was wondering, would a group haste spell for enchanters be too powerful? I know you can get group haste from bards, but bards aren't that great right now. Maybe enchanters could get it until bards are upgraded? Similar to how squids got globe before drow enchanters came in (i think). Or give a group haste to shamans (ancestral battlecry?) since ancestral shield isn't in? :/ Just some thoughts.

Dartan
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Postby kiryan » Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:22 pm

to shaman, 100% against that. shaman is a damn good complete class as it is, they dont need any sort of haste ability, even temporary measure.

to enchanters, 90% against that. leave it for bards/bchanters, we can wait.

i think current bards/bchanters are more useful than we give them credit for, but not up to par with days gone by or present standards.
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Postby Ilshadrial » Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:23 pm

Bards are UBER... Haven't you watched Gurns play?

As far as a group haste spell, I say noway, perhaps increase duration haste lasts, perhaps.
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Postby Malacar » Wed Mar 27, 2002 7:49 pm

I'm tired of hasting.

I'm tired of hasting warriors.

I'm tired of getting bugged to haste people repeatedly. This includes clerics, Paladins, Anti-Paladins, and warriors. I constantly haste rangers and Rogues.

Increase the duration of the spell is one solution, one I am heavily for.

I do not see how a group haste would unbalance things, personally. You can say 'we will wait' til you are blue in the face. Speaking for myself only, as an enchanter, I cannot. Either fix bards asap, or give us a temporary solution.

This one spell has ruined my fun on numerous occasions, and caused numerous arguements. I SO miss haste items.
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Postby Corth » Wed Mar 27, 2002 8:58 pm

Honestly.. anything that decreases the amount of 'busy work' an enchanter has to do before a fight is a good thing...

Corth
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Postby Xebes » Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:41 am

You mean the job of an enchanter isn't to learn how to type ~120 wpm as soon as possible and keep it up for hours on end? *boggle*
Someone show me where this dream world is, cuz I want in. Kinda sucks when sometimes I'm too busy typing to even grab a drink of water for 5-10mins at a time.
If you took blur and haste and upped the duration to something like that of globe, it would help us out a LOT.

If enchanters got a group haste spell (and I'm not sure if that's the wisest route), I think it should be a 10th circle quest spell. Reason: put it in the same circle as dscales and it'll get used, but probably not quite so often as to be really unbalancing. Either that, or make bards a viable class soon, it's like a few upgrades and that class would be a lot of fun to play.

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Postby kiryan » Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:49 am

if your tired of hasting bring a fukin a necro/lich (or more invokers). evil enchanters generally dont have to cast haste.
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Postby Malacar » Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:34 am

*laughs*

Yeah, I'm gonna go right out and roll a necro... suuuuure.

I've grouped with a lot of necros. Most don't keep globes up on their targets, much less haste them without being constantly nagged. Not sure how it is on evils. Not even gonna go there.

I think the probably solution is to up haste and blur durations. Blur isn't so messily important, but I think that it having a lesser duration than displacement is kinda goofy.
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Postby torkur » Thu Mar 28, 2002 9:49 am

Just a thought.....

Group haste would haste the mages/clerics in the group too and up the chances of a ripo or two towards them in some fights. Might not matter too often, but not necessarily a good thing to add with the 300+ hp ripos possible by higher level mobs. Especially if it happens with a lot of area spells going off in a zone setting.....might add to the death tolls in some places and won't make you many friends.
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Mar 28, 2002 10:03 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>I've grouped with a lot of necros. Most don't keep globes up on their targets, much less haste them without being constantly nagged. Not sure how it is on evils. Not even gonna go there.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sucks terribly.. A Necros PRIMARY role in a zone-group is globing/hasting hitters.
A necro not doing his job is as useful as bringing a cleric that prefer to quake ahead of fheal.
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Postby Ensis » Thu Mar 28, 2002 1:02 pm

Did haste items get taken out so Enchanters had more of a role? or just because it made it too easy for hitters to plevel? (if so, enchanters have plenty of spells to cast besides haste.)

Hasting warriors/paladins/anti's seems pretty pointless to me unless they're there specifically for hitting. I never ask for haste, except from gnomes.

I was too n00b in all the other incarnations of soj to know about bard capabilities, but didn't song of heroism do group haste?.. If something like that got imp'd for bards that could take a pretty big monkey off enchanters backs.



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Postby Malacar » Thu Mar 28, 2002 2:57 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B> A necro not doing his job is as useful as bringing a cleric that prefer to quake ahead of fheal.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, we have those too...

[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 03-28-2002).]
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:19 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B> A necro not doing his job is as useful as bringing a cleric that prefer to quake ahead of fheal.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I'm not gonna name names, but ... KALN!
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Postby Karikhan » Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:24 pm

i am having so much fun playing my alt, a level 32 drow enchanter... the stoning(still baby) hasting and blurring arent that big a deal YET .. but it does get annoying when everyone and their brother send tells for haste (err why do clerics need haste:P).. i typically reserve haste for the rogues and my tank .. if i have enough extras i haste the other hitters too .. it really isnt that hard to manage, considering even at my low level haste is like 10 sec?? (not at home so cant log in to check)

i guess im so much used to challenge (yeah YOU try being only stoner/healer in groups and having AMBAR's memtimes.. that hasting/stoning and blurring seem easy

im pretty much under the opinion that enchanters are one of the more powerful classes, so we should deal with some hardships.. and a little common sense will help you do your job well..

-Ambar de Ogre / Telina de Drow
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Postby Malacar » Thu Mar 28, 2002 8:39 pm

All I can say is... You will truly feel the pain at 46+ Image

I didn't think it was THAT bad til I got dscales at 48... But being the only haster/blurrer/dscaler for a group of 15, with 3 tanks and 3-4 melee hitters... Is a lot to handle. And my spellups are heinously long sometimes.. I often annoy the group leader by telling them I need an extra 30-45 seconds on spellups, because I need to mem back a globe or three. In smaller groups, with 4ish targets, it's not horrible, but hasting is sucky. I can deal with dscales/blur/globe. Blur is annoying, but livable. I use those for multi-mob fights, and it makes hella difference. I think upping the duration might unbalance it a bit, though I would be willing to check this out.

Haste, though, definitely needs a duration upgrade in my eyes.
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Postby moritheil » Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:12 pm

I'm glad I know Gurns and Kobei Image

Oh, and the one time it's a royal pain for necros to haste/globe is from telnet. From a client, necros have it easiest. That's the one major problem I have with necros as they stand now.
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Postby Gormal » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:25 am

roll i quake for fun! and if you looked through my quake logs you'd note that i can keep so many mobs bashed with it. wear lev or +agi and stop whining about quake!

Kaln tells you 'omg haste me'
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Mar 29, 2002 5:01 am

The leaders generally don't give me enough time to globe the hitters, much less haste them. I'd say a good 40-50% of the time, I haven't finished globing my targets before the entire group is moved in to attack the foe. That's a lot of spam from hitters all saying 'globe me!' and the other half saying 'haste me!'. A group haste spell would be great, or if the duration was modified upwards. Or maybe even a spell that was haste that was higher level that lasted longer. Something around 9th circle that lasted upwards of 10 minutes and was a single target spell. Stack a blur onto it and I'd un-mem my constricts =)

Baratos
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Postby Wargo » Fri Mar 29, 2002 5:57 am

Ok gotta defend that quaking cleric line. Everyone knows a real cleric casts curse/silence/quake/full harm instead of full heal all day. There is a reason why, on the evil side, there is an unwritten rule about only the lowest level cleric heals the group in a zone Image

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Postby Ebgar » Fri Mar 29, 2002 7:23 pm

Isn't grouphaste already in the game for evils? (I could be wrong, not sure what this spell does, but that's what it looks like)

Syntax: battletrace
Area of effect: Fighting group members
Duration: Depending on the proficiency of the psionicist
Aggressive: No
Class/Level: Psionicist 45th
Type of Ability: Metapsionics

This ability can only be projected upon group members engaged in
battle. It allows the caster to enter the minds of the group and
motivates them into a battle trance, increasing their chance of hitting
the enemy. Based on the skill of the psionicist there is rumored to be
an extra side effect of this skill on its victims, although, no one has come
forward to say what it is.


[This message has been edited by Ebgar (edited 03-29-2002).]
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Postby Jegzed » Fri Mar 29, 2002 7:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ebgar:
<B>Isn't grouphaste already in the game for evils? (I could be wrong, not sure what this spell does, but that's what it looks like)

Syntax: battletrace
Area of effect: Fighting group members
Duration: Depending on the proficiency of the psionicist
Aggressive: No
Class/Level: Psionicist 45th
Type of Ability: Metapsionics

This ability can only be projected upon group members engaged in
battle. It allows the caster to enter the minds of the group and
motivates them into a battle trance, increasing their chance of hitting
the enemy. Based on the skill of the psionicist there is rumored to be
an extra side effect of this skill on its victims, although, no one has come
forward to say what it is.


[This message has been edited by Ebgar (edited 03-29-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nopes, the side-affect is that you get ZERKED, and can't flee Image
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Postby Orvik » Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:00 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Nopes, the side-affect is that you get ZERKED, and can't flee </font>


Not to mention randomly turning on non-aggr mobs just to cause the occasional group spank. gives a nice +hit/dam boost tho

-Pythrrus
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Postby Selias » Fri Apr 05, 2002 1:23 am

Maybe I'm just odd, but I don't mind hasting, then again I hardly ever haste anyone but rogues (rangers can use their bows). If someone asks me for haste I'll get it on them during battle when I have a chance.

If someone keeps bugging you for haste, just don't haste them Image sooner or later they'll forget and that's 1 less person bugging you!

As for clerics that want haste, I just tell them to go kill a kitten or two, and he gets off my back.

The solution? Tell the group that you're not hasting, and then don't haste anyone! Sure, fights will take longer, but it saves you typing Image

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Postby Gurns » Fri Apr 05, 2002 5:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
But being the only haster/blurrer/dscaler for a group of 15</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would, indeed, be a pain. But why the heck are you the only 'chanter in a high-level group of 15? Yes, yes, depending on who's on, you might have to be. But regularly?

For everyone's information, bards still get haste on song of heroism. Sometimes. When we get a "successful enough" engagement of the "virtuoso" skill. Virt comes at lvl 40, has a fairly high chance of failure at the command (causing one to stop singing), and a fairly high level of failure on later verses (again causing a song stop). Failure rate gets lower with improved song and instrument skills. A successful virt doesn't always cause haste, though. Also note that the virtuoso skill itself (either by design or bug) never improves, except by paying at guildmaster (it'll probably max out around 64), suggesting that the failure rate will always be pretty high in this version of bards.

That sounds pretty bad, EXCEPT: Back in the day, after haste items were removed but when bards had a more reliable but still failable haste, I was usually asked NOT to sing hero until after spellups were done. My haste prevented a cast haste, and cast hastes don't fail and last longer. So the "real hitters" got a "real haste" and everyone else got a bard haste (if/when it hit).
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Postby Malacar » Fri Apr 05, 2002 5:45 pm

It happens more than you would think, unfortunately. Image
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Postby Xebes » Fri Apr 05, 2002 6:33 pm

I'd say about 75% of the number of times I go zoning, I'm the only enchanter and usually have more spellup targets than I physically have spells to cast, never mind the time spent casting em.

If I actually spelled everyone up fully like they would like to be, my first spells would have ALREADY faded by the time the group entered the room.

The other annoying part of it is constantly being griped at by people that I didn't give them some spell they felt they wanted/needed.

For anyone who hasn't played an enchanter, my usual number of spellup targets is 5-7.
Usually 3-4 tanks which beg me for dscales/blur/globe/haste, and 2-3 hitters that just get globe/haste.
That's a total spellup of anywhere from 16 to 22 spells. There's just no way I have time to cast 20 spells before every fight. That's the fundamental issue at hand here.

Leaders want to move quickly, tanks want their precious spells, enchanters are caught in the middle, and most want out.

P.S. Yeah, an enchanters job would be a little easier if there were necros in the group- but there's only a goodie necro ON to group with once in a blue moon.

-Xeb
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Postby moritheil » Fri Apr 05, 2002 7:08 pm

on a related note, I wish to express much relief that necros get globe one circle lower now.
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Postby Malacar » Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:49 pm

Xebes summed it up perfectly I think.

Everyone bitches at enchanters, thinking we either suck, are too slow, or whatnot... I honestly encourage these players to level an enchanter and THEN zone with them. You will feel our pain.

I am not complaining like this because the class is too hard. It's not too hard. It's just hard. I like that aspect. However, less annoying would be super.

This means less spam from hitters and tanks.

Less tells for spells.

Less group says for spells.

Longer duration on some spells.

More patience from group leaders.

Will we get any of this? I dunno.. But it feels good to vent once in a while. Image
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Postby torkur » Fri Apr 05, 2002 11:42 pm

Thought I'd add something that's a pet peeve of mine. When you can,

ASK INVOKERS FOR DI AND DM!!!!!!!!!!!

Hehe, we're normally bored waiting for spellups just like you are and it takes us literally 3 seconds to cast each and remem them, don't bother the enchanters. Image
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Postby old depok » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:59 pm

How about a quest that would grant a haste and globe effect? Might replace the haste spell and cost you a spanky piece of EQ?

Looks like that might cut down the number of spells as they are often cast together in zones. Make it a high circle spell.

Also, if you need a di/dm ask a shaman. We are rarely asked to vit as cleric vits last longer and we don't stone with enchanters in the group even if they dont have dscale yet.

I am usually looking for something to do during spell ups. After vitting myself and the paladin's horse that is.

Gsa "anyone need an armor, bless, di or dm? send me a tell"
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Apr 16, 2002 6:02 am

as an enchanter who had arthritis, but was only made into a problem playing one this past year, i hope some of what i have to say on this has some weight.

i would like to see specialize enchantment have a much greater effect on the duration of haste than it already does. on the terms of 60% longer than the current spec enchantment duration

i would like to see the duration of blur match it or exceed it. prefer exceed it (when cast at the same time, they go down at the same time.)

i would like to see a 10th circle group haste quested spell with about the same duration as necro haste. not necro pet haste, necro haste.

would like to see a group stone skin quest spell in 9th or 10th circle. something along the lines of a little less protection than shaman stone at the same level. scaling all warriors or scaling all group members, or scaling all warriors and stoning the rest is a LOT of typing for a single enchanter.

so during invasion there was never a time when i wasnt flying over the keys, except when i was dead and recovering. my hands hurt sooo much after that i find it hard to believe that even normal people without my affliction would have NOT had serious cramps and pain afterwards.

yes the class is hard. hardest i've played so far here and very rewarding in the higher levels. however since i can no longer let people poke me for haste, bite me for blur and tug me for stone i have to type all that shit out. too many scripts and you're a bot, too little and you can only play for a few minutes at a time.

either let me keep my triggers so i can spellup folks at fountain when i'm just chatting and not have to type it, or please do something about the sheer number of spells we need to cast.

yes we had a necro. necro pets dont last long in invasion. i had to globe/haste/stone/scale/blur a LOT, as well as dispel magic, di, dm, fly etc.

the expereince was a blast, but is knocked down a few notches for me as i'm still suffering from it tonight (typing this not helping either).

please consider these ideas. they are not unbalancing to the game, not on par with adding a hide/sneak cloak in a relatively simple zone!

thanks.
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Postby Gindipple » Tue Apr 16, 2002 6:19 am

Why not just bring 2 enchanters along?
I agree it's one of the busiest typing classes there is, but botting is pretty clearly not a good option.


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Postby Teyaha » Tue Apr 16, 2002 6:33 am

sometims two chanters isnt an option, like with the invasion trip.

actually a lot of the time it's not an option. not nearly as many of this essential class as there are clerics/warriors/invokers.

it's a hard working class, not so much hard. getting xp groups not hard everyone wants you. getting zone groups not hard everyone needs what you can do. i dont want that taken away.

i also dont want the fact that you do have to keep track of a lot during and between fights, that's what sets good chanters apart form the bad ones - the ability to multitask.

it's hard, it's rewarding, and i dont want to share the work, just would like some of my work to last a bit longer or not require 15x as many keystrokes than it needs.
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Postby Mishre » Tue Apr 16, 2002 7:40 am

Just put in Haste eq again.. :P

there are a few ways to make it not quite so twinky.. there are a few ways.. 1 is to add level limits to just haste eq.. 2 is to make it so whoever loots the item is the only persno who can ever wear it (usually called owned eq) you can make it rogue only.... im sure someone could think of something better that would fit sojourn better..

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Postby kiryan » Tue Apr 16, 2002 8:03 am

heres the thing that i think folks are missing.

there is synergy when you get classes and people together. the synergistic effect is reserved for grouping. when you start imping stuff like haste items, you remove reasons to group as well as make classes more powerful on their own and reduce the necessity of other classes.

Also, consider the recent statements regarding eq and imply that pc's are getting way more powerful than mobs. imp haste items? come on. everyone thinks haste is a given, however its not. there is a cost for that extra melee dam, and that cost is part of what defines balance. consider any changes to the existing dynamics of haste carefully.

you could say what im missing is having to cast a billion spells all the time. well thats an enchanter. they sacrifice offensive ability for endless spellups. if your enchanters are bitching that bad, take less melee, bring more haste/globers. necros or elementalists globe, bards or necros haste.
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Postby Kifle » Tue Apr 16, 2002 8:49 am

I dont play an enchanter and I probably never will what with my attention span, but the way I see it, you bring hitters along for a reason...to kill things as fast as possible. Aren't you kinda defeating the purpose by not hasting? you kill a mob 8-9 rounds faster with 2 hasted rogues, probably more rounds faster, that is what...an extra blur/stone you dont have to cast? So i would think it evens out somewhere down the road.
And seariously, you dont have to have to type 120wpm, there are these things called aliases. on telnet i could see the huge problem, but come on, its one of the better and useful spells in the game...use it Image


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Postby Karikhan » Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:04 pm

Teyaha that was a well thought out message, hi5!!!!

I tend to agree with him .. on the spells lasting longer thing .. I do disagree with an enchanter group stone .. let it be a questable spell for the elementalist, as well as a group globe ... ok i see group haste and enchanters, as a quest spell ...

I guess in summary

group globe quest spell for chanters (10th circle)
group haste quest spell for chanters (9th circle)
group stone quest spell for elementalists (10th circle)

i say leave blur and fly alone...

also in regards to smaller enchantments .. detect magic, detect invis ... YES .. ask a shaman or invoker........in MY opinion if you dont have these two spells up while zoning you are silly....(my shaman keeps two detect i, two detect m, two armor/bless, 2 summon, 2 remove curse, and two invis at all times)..

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Ambar -= Squishin de Squid =-

Edit: Teyaha wasnt sayiong he doesnt want to haste .. he was saying he thinks spec enchant should make these enchantments last longer

Edit two: with our smaller player base .. the evils dont often have two high level enchanters on at the same time.. so it isnt feasible(spelling?) for us to have two in the group

[This message has been edited by Karikhan (edited 04-16-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Karikhan (edited 04-16-2002).]
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Postby Teyaha » Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:48 pm

i like the idea of giving elementalist group stone at 10th circle as a quest spell. it actually makes sense along the lines of shamans having group heal.

shouldnt be a group globe though. globes dont bother me, and i doubt they bother many other chanters. necro pets already pretty good at this actually.

group haste in 7th circle would be great, as would a group di/dm spell in 9th. not essential, but we ARE enchanters after all aren't we? the group haste should be a quest spell, the group di/dm an auto spell. can call the group haste spell 'velocity' and the group di/dm 'aura of true sight'...

actually i was thinking along these lines and i'll be analyzing and picking apart my mem list and enchanter spells that arent used etc. at work today and post in the thread i started below.
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Postby Karikhan » Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:14 pm

lucky biotch to be able to do that at work

*jealous glare*

giggle

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Postby Malacar » Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:25 pm

Kifle, it's difficult to understand the viewpoint of an Enchanter, unless you play one, or have really dug deep into them. So I don't think any of us hold anything against you. No worries. Image

Basically, yes, haste is a great spell. Yes, it helps to kill stuff faster. I agree it should be cast. But, let me give an example of a spellup from last night, which is very common.

We're doing TF/CC with 5 hitters/tanks. Dhurn, Lanik, Koric, Nelor, Weylarii for TF... Lanik, Koric, Nelor, Weylarii, Adriorn for CC(Dhurn left halfway)...

In TF, I had to keep all 4 tanks dscaled at all times. The primary tanks Dhurn/Lanik blurred(sometimes Koric/Nelor)(these blurs went midfight a lot, so I would have to recast). I had to keep the invokers/Illus(Nitupopple, Corth) and clerics/druids(Ranor, Dranix, Tolad(who left, then got Ebgar), Gordex) stoneskinned. I had to globe 5 targets. I was then asked to pwb some mobs. Plus I had to haste weylarii/adriorn on bigger fights(they were nice and used bows a lot for smaller, thanks guys), and all the tanks when it came to jabberwock/quturac fights(where the hastes in both instances went halfway through each, and I had to REhaste). I had to keep track of ghouls/ghasts that were casting/missed bashes, and constrict them(thankfully very few). I was asked to di/dm a lot. A few asked for flies... Etc.

Now this is NOT a whine, since I know some will jump right on that bandwagon, and try to ride it. Hear that from me, if you read nothing else. It is just trying to show what spells we had to cast, and relatively how often. My example didn't include glancing, which was done constantly.. Or the fact that I only have 4 dscales, and 4 targets, so I had to mem out a lot... An increased duration in haste would not be unbalancing, it would just be less aggravating, and one less thing to have to keep track of so much. A lesser cast time on it would be very helpful too.

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[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 04-16-2002).]
Dlur
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Postby Dlur » Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:10 pm

I realize that haste items will never again be a part of the game. I also realize that it is important to the balance of the game for skills/spells to remain in the realm of the class those skills/spells are assigned to.

I also realize that most enchanters have better things to do during a spellup than cast haste on several folks, and then recast it during the fight because it's duration is so short. If I as an elementalist were to do hastes during zone fights I'd have to rehaste 3-4 times during most fights. I don't even have that many hastes. Necro pets die too fast in zones, and Necro haste is from my observation just as short as Elementalist haste. Bards are as-of-yet still not a mainstay in zoning(or any) groups at the moment, so their group haste ability barely even factors in(if it even worked correctly in the first place).

While perm haste items are a thing of the past, and most folks really dislike or don't have time to cast the spell, this leaves your average hitter left out in the cold. Warrior's don't really need haste as much during big fights as it's their job to absorb damage, not so much to dish it out. Rogues need haste to be truely effective in zoning situations, and for the most part Rangers also do as there are a lot of situations where archery isn't a valid option.

I propose a solution:
Add haste procs to a select few weapons.
Think back to the old UM sword, "a two-handed sword named 'Lightning'". This sword was for all intensive purposes a pile of crap by yesterday's standards, but by today's standards would be rather nice. This item had relatively low damage dice, and perhaps +4+4 hit/dam (back in the days where 6/6 was nearly standard), but what the item did have was a random proc that hasted the wielder at completely random times. Sometimes it was when you were standing idle, and sometimes it was during fights. The sword also had a lightning bolt proc that went off randomly during fights.

With the current saturation of proccing items in the game that blind, slow, para, entangle, do damage, ect, ect, why not have one that hastes the wielder? Maybe make two items, one a dagger, one a sword, both that randomly haste the wielder, perhaps with a little less frequency than how avenger stones. This could be tweaked, frequency-wise, in order to help balance it out. Also I would say that an item that procs haste like this would have no other procs other than to haste the wielder. Hell even make it a little heavier so that it can be only wielded primary.

So just say no to the haste spell, give new zone writers something spanky to put in their zone/quest, and let rangers and rogues stop their bishing! Vote yes for random haste proc weapons today!

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Postby Treladian » Tue Apr 16, 2002 10:19 pm

I know of at least one item that can proc haste on command in the game. Ugly as hell though, I wouldn't want to be caught in it Image I doubt having a weapon proc haste randomly would be unbalancing either since it would probably mean not having a powerful damage proc and the duration could be adjusted. Just a thought.

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Postby Teyaha » Wed Apr 17, 2002 2:20 am

i dont know that we need more proc weapons in the game at this time. seems to be a lot of them right now. perhaps in a year or so?
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Postby Gormal » Wed Apr 17, 2002 3:31 am

if you are overworked in a zone then complain to your leaders to bring more then 1 enchanter. dont blame the class.

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Postby Teyaha » Wed Apr 17, 2002 3:35 am

gormal your response wasnt on topic really, and was already addressed.

a lot of the time two chanters isnt an option.

during our god run invasion trip, i was the only chanter on over 40. it just happens that way.
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Apr 17, 2002 3:36 am

I don't consider myself "out in the cold" if I don't get a haste. If the group is so busy the chanter doesn't have time to haste me, then we must be having a hell of a lot of fun. Yeah, so I do more damage when I'm hasted, a perm haste would be way too easy.
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Postby Kifle » Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:10 am

Thanks for not flaming mal Image I appriciate that mucho. Under those circumstances I would totaly agree with you, but I have been in groups where there are 2 chanters and not near as much to do, and if there are people like you out there that can do a zone like you did, I know a few, then with 2 chanters haste would not be so bad to cast. I just look at it from a hitters perspective...Thats what I am there to do, hit, the more the better...Rogues in zones are kinda boring sometimes, unless you are doing SF or something where you can backstab all the mobs except for a few fights. Our fun skills are usually useless except for a spank CR, or picking a few doors which only adds a bit of excitement. In a zone I would like to feel a bit more useful.

On another note, I agree with the lengthening of the haste spell duration for chanters, kinda like embodiment spell only considerably less, maybe a halfway point.

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Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:17 am

With 2 enchanters, my job becomes pretty cool.. Ask Xebes. When we zone together we both enjoy it a lot. Image

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Postby Corth » Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:41 am

The irony is that typically, in a more difficult zone, a second enchanter is a luxury you cannot afford. However, its exactly these zones where there is the most enchanting to be done.

Corth

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Postby Mishre » Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:56 am

Thats it! i have the solution, make it so i can instantly turn from a 41 barb war, to 41 enchanter gnome, or to 41 dwarf cle,(which will go up as i level) plus switch my eq to the respective neccesary gear to each class.. just put in a command just for me, Change enchanter or change cleric or change warrior.. .piece of cake.. ill just play 24/7 you guys can pay me to mud all day and be there when you need me.. see problem solved... next topic?

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