Mordkainen's Globe of Protection

Archive of the Sojourn3 Ideas Forum.
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by torkur:
3) Some leaders do sometimes take invokers. Sometimes. Dornax's posts specifically come to mind on this BBS though. They're not required nor needed and generally not taken by some of the "best" leaders, so our uber damage must not be so uber and your worries that the 10 people who play invokers 41+ will rule the mud can be appeased.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What "best" leaders?



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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:09 pm

there is no game reason not to take at least 1 invoker to zone.... at least I haven't seen the 100% shrug mob yet.

I seriously doubt Dornax ignores one of the most powerful classes in the game.

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 06-03-2002).]
Waelos
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Postby Waelos » Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:07 pm

OK another idea! Similar to another idea of mine, but still just as cool:

Invoker Skill: Spell Penetration (name probably hacked from 3E somewhere)

Effect: dependent on invoker level and skill, spells can penetrate MR and globe and minor globe with X% efficiency. So, if you're high level and want to cast ice storm and you have a good spell penetration, it'll go 75% through globe! Um, more importantly it'll allow all spells to burn through MR at some % of effectiveness. Damn, thats such a good idea! =)


Oh, and Daz? Dude. . . you really needa brush up on yer weapon knowledge. 'Splain to me about 'all' these special ranger weapons you know about? I know of one, Windsong, and I Dont even bother using it =P Both weapons I use are warrior usable. OMG! So is every other 1h slasher/piercer/bludgenoning/etc weapon in the game that procs. In fact, there are more weapons that a warrior can use that a ranger can't: Gythka, Twilight, 2h Gith, Icy dagger, etc. Rangers have one melee weapon geared towards them and them alone. Hell, you wanna be badass and go a different route? dual. yeah! prac that skill up and get 4 attacks per round, 5-6 with warrior tank/rip and dual Sauks. Thats hella damage. Or, go good and dual crystal swords. The possibilities for warriors and their weapons is really quite diverse and fun. thats why my alt is a warrior =) Anywhoo! Give Invokers spell penetration and leave the Windsong deadhorsebeating ALONE! =)

Wondering if Yayaril is the cult leader of the Ya-Ya sisterhood. . .

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Grungar
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Postby Grungar » Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:14 pm

Yayaril is actually a cult leader that worships Pez™ and Fozzy Bear from the Muppets. You should hear their 'Wokka wokka wokka' chanting. It will chill you to the core.

- Grungar "Nothing useful to contribute here" Forgefire
Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:27 pm

"Dornax's posts specifically come to mind on this BBS though. They're not required nor needed and generally not taken by some of the "best" leaders, so our uber damage must not be so uber and your worries that the 10 people who play invokers 41+ will rule the mud can be appeased."

You're reading far too much into his words. First off, the ONLY classes required for ANY zone are warriors, clerics, and enchanters. Paladins, antis, rangers, rogues, illusionists, elementalists, necros/liches, shamans, druids, psis, and invokers all fall under the category of "extremely nice to have but can be worked around if needed in various ways." All three damage dealing classes can generally be substituted for each other as dictated by leader preferences or available players, rogues being the occasionaly exception since some zones have locks or traps to disarm. On the opposite extreme of Dorn, Jezged has posted that he normally only takes along one rogue in his groups. Quite simply, you're DAMAGE. You specifically will never, ever be required. You will not get special treatment just because you're the only damage class that uses spells instead of tons and tons of equipment. You may get preference because you do tons and tons of damage more compared to a hitter, but that's just one of many preferences that may influence a leader's decision. But you will never, ever be a must have class for any zone. Only clerics, warriors, and enchanters will.

Secondly, a leader's preferences factor heavily into this. Quite simply, at the time of the post Imphras has 30 members and NO invokers. When there are 15+ Imphras members on, which is not an uncommon occurence with alts factored in, Dorn is obviously going to prefer to draw on people from his guild instead of having to say "sorry, but you can't come with us since we need an invoker to make things much easier." We've had some ugly zoning due to weird group composition on some nights because of this, but that's how Dorn puts together a lot of his groups. He's a GUILD LEADER. Obviously his guild is going to have some effect on who he takes along. Since them, some members have gotten invoker alts to higher levels and you can be damn sure there's a world of difference when one of them takes along his invoker instead of his ranger or nondamage characters.

Third, not all leaders use the same tactics. An obvious example is that evils are much more caster heavy than goodies. Another is that there are some tactics where frequent areas will screw things up. If a leader has adopted these tactics and devised new ones due to not having a guilded invoker and found them to be very useful, then you can be sure they're not going to always want to snag an invoker if they're used to tactics like these. But that's just one leader with their own choice of tactics. Not all leaders are going to make use of those tactics or even know of them. Don't assume all leaders are the same, it really belittles them all when you do that IMO.

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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:30 pm

Wokka wokka wokka worship wokka wokka
Wokka wokka wokka Yayaril wokka wokka
Wokka wokka wokka your wokka wokka
Wokka wokka wokka new wokka wokka
Wokka wokka wokka GOD! wokka wokka

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-Yayaril
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:51 pm

brrrrr.

Torkur sorry I am not uber Image

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Zaryn group-says 'If we can para the mages again. Mori's trick is going to save us.'
<> You group-say 'zaryn the "mori save us" irony is not lost on me'
Daz
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Postby Daz » Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:20 pm

Nod Waelos, my knowledge is EXTREMELY limited to my experience, and I am biased by what I have seen . . . I admit that it is probably my perception that is skewed, and not what I actually know.

BTW - most of my posts are extreme to left or right - and my current state of mental health which direction that opinion swings.

Love the mud, love my char, love you guys Image



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-Daz Proudwolf, Tapestry Pirate
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

One, I don't know who in the hell you are.
Two, I don't CARE who in the hell you are.
This isn't personal.
THIS IS A GAME.

Erevan
torkur
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Postby torkur » Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:36 pm

Um, Mori, you know I have fun with you man. You generally do take nukers along, but you're not leading zones every night like some people are and don't lead every zone around. You're also normally melee heavy by choice as well. The leaders who lead everything and do so nearly nightly I was talking about preferring non-invoker groups for some reason.

I also know each leader has his own tactics, but since most people learn to do the zones the same ways from leaders such as Dornax, Corth, Mori, etc this does factor in. If you try to do anything "new" or "innovative" you get labelled as a twink and then they upgrade the mobs or downgrade your spells, so the same tactics seem to be used over and over by the people I've grouped with.
torkur
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Postby torkur » Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:48 pm

BTW, treladian, how is MR and feedback currently any different from missile shields rangers were complaining about and now got changed? Besides all this recent leader preference crap, that was why I originally posted.

My solution was to get us some added area spell protection for our problem of taking much longer to kill things.....or is it only overpowered when your class is screwed by it?
Daz
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Postby Daz » Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:54 pm

yes.

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-Daz Proudwolf, Tapestry Pirate
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

One, I don't know who in the hell you are.
Two, I don't CARE who in the hell you are.
This isn't personal.
THIS IS A GAME.

Erevan
Selias
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Postby Selias » Tue Jun 04, 2002 1:13 am

Hmm, the only problem I notice is that vokers get switched to a LOT, read Jani dies every time she goes to jot. Maybe you could bump invokers down on the list of switched to characters, and replace them with, say, paladins? =)

As for taking/not taking invokers, this might be one of the main reasons why invokers don't get to see much zoning...

< 650h/650H 124v/124VP:std (AFK)> who good sort necro inv ranger rogue
Listing of the Staff
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[ Co-Ord Admin ] Erevan Ilesere, God of Mischief and Change

There are 1 visible staff member(s) on.

Listing of the Mortals!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[50 Rog] Eza - Silhouette - Rising Phoenix (Human) (RP)
[50 Ran] Sylvos Winteraven -BladeDancer- Shadows of Imphras (Half-Elf) (RP)
[50 Ran] Kasula (Half-Elf)
[50 Rog] Kiros -Lienhur- [****] Storm of Fists (Dwarf) (RP)
[50 Rog] Nokie Quickfingers, Locksmith - Darkstorm Rising (Halfling) (RP)
[50 Ran] Treladian -Steel Blizzard- Shadows of Imphras (Half-Elf)
[49 Ran] Calinth Winterleaf (Half-Elf)
[46 Nec] Telles (Human)
[46 Rog] Ronble - Night Hunter of The Company (Halfling) (RP)
[45 Ran] Sterljin (Grey Elf)
[45 Ran] Kallinar -Vakha tel'Sanye- Rising Phoenix (Half-Elf)
[45 Ran] Twyl Twinshadow - Darkstorm Rising (Grey Elf) (RP)
[44 Rog] Namiren Oakshadow, Blackguard - Equinox (Grey Elf)
[39 Inv] Gant Sizzlebrizzle - Artificer of The Company (Gnome) (RP)
[38 Inv] Nikelon Zol'Lek -Warlock- Rising Phoenix (Human) (RP)
[35 Ran] Nerohan Nightfletcher (Half-Elf)
[33 Ran] Digion Kiara (Human)
[22 Ran] Randir Thiringir (Half-Elf)
[21 Rog] Zibble - Scout of The Company (Halfling) (RP)
[17 Inv] Alilsil (Grey Elf)
[ 9 Ran] Shloras (Grey Elf)
[ 4 Ran] Ader (Half-Elf)

There are 22 mortal(s) on.

Total visible players: 23.
Record number of players on this boot: 131.
< 650h/650H 124v/124VP:std (AFK)>

not a single voker 40+. Personally whenever I'm building a group I opt for vokers over melee hitters... they just do THAT much more damage. On the other end, melee doesn't have to worry about feedback or memming.

It sounds like you're more or less fed up with not having the eq it takes to stay alive in zones. That's very understandabe, but changes like that don't come over night.

If you're looking for advice, I'd say just log on and sit in WD ungrouped asking leaders if they need help. Clair is your friend.

If you need help with something, feel free to ask the people that are in the know. They're nice guys, and 9/10 times they'll be able to steer you in the right direction if not help you along the way.

Sel
Gromikazer
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Postby Gromikazer » Tue Jun 04, 2002 3:43 am

Sidenote: Pretending valhalla isn't a ranger weapon, is... wrong :P.

Warriors can WIELD windsong, dosen't mean its for them.

On that note, there is no weapon ONLY for warriors... :P

... but i digress...

Clerics/shamans get switched to more then invokers, the problem is clerics and shamans have more hitpoints. If yer a invoker and you like doing damage, stick with it. 50th level invokers LEVEL battlefields. I hate *despise* not taking a inovoker to zones like meilech, invasion, manscorps...

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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
Waelos
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Postby Waelos » Tue Jun 04, 2002 4:21 am

Gromi: Ask Gura what she thinks about Valhalla being a ranger only weapon *wink*. . . I'd call windsong ranger only because its proc sets warriors at -5 hps. . . snicker. And true, there is no true warrior only weapon. Twilight can be wielded by anti's and so can Gythka. but, they're pretty limited. I'd go so far as to suggest Twilight be made warrior only, maybe Gythka. . . After all, Anti's have Unholy. but this is off topic again! hehe uhm. . . I'd reiterate my suggestion for invokers which noone seems to comment on, but dead horse flesh isn't becoming on my boots. =)

UAHSHA!

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kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Tue Jun 04, 2002 11:48 am

im still boggled that melee damage was hardcore downgraded yet yall still keep rolling melee chars... roll some invokers and lichs.
Daz
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Postby Daz » Tue Jun 04, 2002 2:25 pm

im a noob.
what is this about warrior's wielding windsongs?

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-Daz Proudwolf, Tapestry Pirate
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

One, I don't know who in the hell you are.
Two, I don't CARE who in the hell you are.
This isn't personal.
THIS IS A GAME.

Erevan
Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Tue Jun 04, 2002 6:08 pm

"BTW, treladian, how is MR and feedback currently any different from missile shields rangers were complaining about and now got changed? Besides all this recent leader preference crap, that was why I originally posted.
My solution was to get us some added area spell protection for our problem of taking much longer to kill things.....or is it only overpowered when your class is screwed by it? "

That's a simple one. First, most mobs with MR do not have 100% magic resistance. To my knowledge, none do. All high level mage mobs had 100% missile resistance under the old missile shield spell. The primary tool of the class was not rendered less effective by it, it was rendered USELESS by it and it was FAR more common than magic resistance on big mobs. There's a huge difference between having even a large number of attacks blocked and having ALL of them blocked. Since the chance to pop a missile shield with any individual shot is extremely low (averaging around 1 or 2% the last time I saw the numbers), I generally fight against missile shielded mobs having my damage reduced by a significant amount, but it's a hell of a lot more than just having it blocked 100% of the time.

Daz: Windsong can be wielded by grey elf warriors, but it has a significant side effect of a proc that reduces them to -5 hp as soon as they hit a mob with it. It's not exactly an optimal weapon for an elf warrior as a result Image

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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
Gromikazer
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Postby Gromikazer » Tue Jun 04, 2002 7:52 pm

Yea, it has the same heal proc for trolls weylarii, dosen't mean its not a ranger weapon. :P

So hey weylarii.. god 50 arrows yet?

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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:40 pm

I think Yayaril summed it up fairly well.
Izizimmez
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Postby Izizimmez » Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:18 am

Yeah Waelos, that's pretty much the same thing I was suggesting.

Obviously it's the best idea. Image

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Tog Vicious
combatmedic
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Postby combatmedic » Fri Jun 07, 2002 8:48 pm

Just adding my too cents since i don't have much game play experience.

Invokers suxors!

I'ma gonna roll one as soon as i get off of work!

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"Incoming force missles have the right of way!"


Dalen the super paly.
Aram the novice paly.
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Sun Jun 09, 2002 11:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by torkur:
<B>Um, Mori, you know I have fun with you man. You generally do take nukers along, but you're not leading zones every night like some people are and don't lead every zone around. You're also normally melee heavy by choice as well. The leaders who lead everything and do so nearly nightly I was talking about preferring non-invoker groups for some reason.

I also know each leader has his own tactics, but since most people learn to do the zones the same ways from leaders such as Dornax, Corth, Mori, etc this does factor in. If you try to do anything "new" or "innovative" you get labelled as a twink and then they upgrade the mobs or downgrade your spells, so the same tactics seem to be used over and over by the people I've grouped with. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't really say much to this. RL is a bish Image

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You whisper 'why do you own so hard?' to Dartan.
Dartan tells you 'I ask myself that every day.'
torkur
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Postby torkur » Mon Jun 10, 2002 2:20 am

I hear ya man, was there until graduation.....

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