Half-Elves

[Caedym]

For the longest time here, basically since I started playing sojourn 1, I've been wondering why half-elves always had the LEAST amount of class selection (this is before squids mind you). I don't see why they should be able to be most of the other classes, bar mages since sojourn only deals with specialized mage classes (aka there effectively is no 'generic' mage on sojourn).

So my question, and part proposal here is, are half-elves going to finally be allowed to play rogues (yeah I especially mean the new Soj3 ones), warriors, and clerics?

A grey elf can be a warrior or cleric but a half-elf can't? I don't understand that logic at all, but don't bother to explain it, unless it's something good. Perhaps don’t let halfies be clerics but at least shamans? Furthermore, if you are deciding to put berserkers back in, I’m unaware of any news about this but felt I should cover all bases, I don’t think half-elves should be allowed that class either.

If the reasoning is someplace behind how there aren’t really that many half-elves in society and Sojourn wants to reflect that aspect, just make the chances of being that class by meeting the ability requirements harder in char gen or something. Free up the Halfies!

In addition, I think it would be nice to be able to select whether your half-elf was Evil race flagged or Good race flagged. This could allow some of us who want to be say Half-drow, without requiring the whole new race code and hometown and yadda yadda, to be able to play as one. And if you follow this logic, you’d also see no need to extend the bard class to evil races, even though I think drow bards should be available (I personally wouln’t play one bc of the blindness thing – but you never know *grin *) OR just give us half-drow with hometown set to drow hometown. Make them exactly the same as Half-Elves save being Evilrace flagged, and different class selection. Classes could be Bard, Rogue, Warrior, Shaman, Cleric. *shrug*

Yes I mostly play Half-Elves or Half-Drow in real life, which has always miffed me to no apparent end that I could never play one of my favorite RL chars on sojourn.

My two Zhents,

[Bard] Caedym Shadowhock (Half-Drow)

-Still Dreaming-

[cherzra]

Squids need warriors! 150hp at level 50, fear them!


A look of madness appears on Ezzallixxell's face as his black longsword of destruction glows with a crimson hue!


Cherzra!

[Faerwynd]

Not that this is a democracy or anything, but I would vote for Half-elves getting more class selections too. I hate to say it's "because they can in AD&D" I know you Imms hate seeing that (SOJOURN IS NOT AD&D!! yeah right)

Anyways, a Half-Elf would either be raised by:
1) His elven parent
2) His human parent
3) Both parents
4) As an orphan

Why not let them at least have all the class selections of the most restricting race (the elves)?

I guess I'm more curious as to the _whys_ of only having 3 classes to choose from than anything else.

The only thing Caedym mentioned that makes any sense is the attempt to limit the number of half-elves because they're a rare thing. Well squash that! Look at all the squids populating the realms! Lord P. and Khelben would be aghast!

*whistle*

[Bopple]

Perhaps it's for human.

[Cirath Uruxx Kalith etc]

he has a point there... i kinda wondered why half elves didnt have the most class options (like they do in AD&D) since they are accepted, if grudgingly, into either human or elven society.

[Elseenas]

This is a point. The best solution to make them limited is to give humans some advantage over them (see D&D3) and balance them out, not to restrict them unreasonably.

[Giladaple]

*Bump*

[kiryan]

its been said a few times before.

half elves have the benefits (attributes) of both parent races and there by nearly eliminate the parent races as selections.

the extremely restrictive class selection allows them to have uber stats without overwhelming their parent races.

[Auril]

And here I'd thought that the dual nature of the half-elf made him or her less content to stay in one spot, more likely to go roaming, hence being rangers who prefer the outdoors, druids who prefer nature, and bards who travel for more songs...

Leuthilspar's lovely, all forest homes and such, and it would sing to the elven side, but it's not populous enough to soothe the human side's desire for the short-term goals and adventures.

At least, that's what I was thinking about when I noticed that the available classes tend to be geared for distance travelling...

[Azralek Silvermist]

kiryan said half-elves have uber stats

OMG downgrade us immediately

FYI kiryan half-elf stats are average pretty much human ..almost. just about other race has one extraordianry stat.
elves -> int/agi/dex barbs -> str/con etc
the only real bonus half-elves gain is being able to go to silly elf town..whopee

i dont mind the class election really but would be nice to have something for being half-elf

note i am not complaining about the race just said it would be nice

Azmaell/Azralek

[Ashiwi]

Actually halfelves have a lot of benefits which they receive from their mixed parentage. They have higher base hps than elves and infravision. I've seen this argument a dozen times before, and they're probably all going to be mentioned a lot better than I can, but the benefits of being halfelven far outweigh those of either the elven or human races, which is why their class selection is restricted for balance.

As for non-balance reasons...

Being a halfelf basically meant living the life of an outcast. Elven society did not accept them, and they were scorned, at the very least, among humans. It wasn't necessarily in their blood to be wanderers, but there were few organized institutions of education which would accept them as equal among their ranks. In a game such as Sojourn it is difficult to relect all the social nuances surrounding racial differences, and while I'm only guessing here, it seems to me like the class limitation is merely a reflection of that socially outcast status.

[This message has been edited by Ashiwi (edited 07-07-2002).]

[Ambar]

i totally agree with Auri on this ..

it's all about wanderlust babyyyyyyyyyyyy!!

-Shalia Rhyvermist-Prowlingwolf (half-elf druid)

[Ragorn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ambar:
<B>i totally agree with Auri on this ..

it's all about wanderlust babyyyyyyyyyyyy!!

-Shalia Rhyvermist-Prowlingwolf (half-elf druid)</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree completely.

Wanderlust!

------------------
- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'

[Gormal]

Wanderlust forever!

------------------
Gormal Stoneforge -Hammerstrike-

"Forward Mithrilguard!"

[Treladian]

The topic of grey elves is one that's been analyzed in depth in several other topics. Half-elf vs. human is much more vague. The big advantage humans have statwise over halfelves is that their strength and constitution are only slightly higher, but higher enough that they can hit another notch with one piece of max_stat gear, reaping the benefits of increased crit strength and an extra dam notch or an extra 50 hit points at higher levels. In contrast, while a halfelf might be able to hit an extra dex notch with max_dex gear (I haven't been able to test this since there isn't much to test with), it doesn't give any real benefit since dex based attacks are coded based on race so no amount of gear will ever grant them to anything not halfling, gnomish, or elven. That grants humans an advantage statwise for warrior classes. Once the human ranger weapon is in, the mantle of ideal ranger race could easily shift over. Halfelves don't have a bonus to wisdom and can't be mages so there's not much difference statwise for casters. The only real benefit of being a halfelf caster is the elven collar, which itself isn't that much different from darkstones or neckguards, and infra. Bards have undergone some pretty big changes, I'm not going to try to analyze them

The real benefit to being a halfelf comes down to infra IMO. The playing field has leveled a lot since Soj1. Opening up the race to more classes wouldn't unbalance anything, but due to how similar stats are to humans, it probably wouldn't really add anything either.

I also find the "outcast factor" rather silly as a justification for a limited class list since a lot of classes are either passed on through apprenticeship (mages, rangers, bards, sometimes warrior) or self-taught (rogues, some rangers and warriors). Human gods and some elven ones readily accept halfelves too. But it doesn't really matter balancewise for the most part, unless you really, REALLY want infra.

------------------
You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.