Elfy mage hps
Elfy mage hps
Is it just me or do other elfy mages get 3 hps/level with perfect con? I don't understand that. A warrior's max is like 16/level ( I don't know the elven warrior though) but as the mage I always seem to get 3. In AD&D, a mage doesn't get 1/5 the hps of a warrior *sigh* How the heck would you KEEP rolling a 1 on a D4 w/the 2 hp con bonus??
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 08-08-2002).]
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 08-08-2002).]
well, gnomes get better hps/level, have a much more assessable area for help from other players. And since Gnomes can be pretty much same or more as elves, the answer shouldn't be, 'well play a gnome then.' Three hps/level is nuts since illithids, the fecal wimps of the mud, can have up to 6/level..maybe even 7.
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
Greys have needed some loving for a while.. We got a step in the right direction with the memtime boost.
Would definitely like to see some more in the future, but not entirely positive what that would look like.
A Remort for a bladesinger class would be spectacular, imo.. For any elven caster or melee type(invokers, elementalists, enchanters, warriors, rogues, rangers). After all.. Anyone can really pickup a sword or a book and pour themselves into it and learn melee/spellcasting. Rangers should get some kind of a boost in the class, though.
Naked hps for my grey level 50 enchanter... 187
ick?
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
Would definitely like to see some more in the future, but not entirely positive what that would look like.
A Remort for a bladesinger class would be spectacular, imo.. For any elven caster or melee type(invokers, elementalists, enchanters, warriors, rogues, rangers). After all.. Anyone can really pickup a sword or a book and pour themselves into it and learn melee/spellcasting. Rangers should get some kind of a boost in the class, though.
Naked hps for my grey level 50 enchanter... 187
ick?
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>Greys have needed some loving for a while.. We got a step in the right direction with the memtime boost.
Would definitely like to see some more in the future, but not entirely positive what that would look like.
A Remort for a bladesinger class would be spectacular, imo.. For any elven caster or melee type(invokers, elementalists, enchanters, warriors, rogues, rangers). After all.. Anyone can really pickup a sword or a book and pour themselves into it and learn melee/spellcasting. Rangers should get some kind of a boost in the class, though.
Naked hps for my grey level 50 enchanter... 187
ick?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the naked part is ick
------------------
Meatshield
<B>Greys have needed some loving for a while.. We got a step in the right direction with the memtime boost.
Would definitely like to see some more in the future, but not entirely positive what that would look like.
A Remort for a bladesinger class would be spectacular, imo.. For any elven caster or melee type(invokers, elementalists, enchanters, warriors, rogues, rangers). After all.. Anyone can really pickup a sword or a book and pour themselves into it and learn melee/spellcasting. Rangers should get some kind of a boost in the class, though.
Naked hps for my grey level 50 enchanter... 187
ick?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the naked part is ick
------------------
Meatshield
-
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
190 is about what a drow enchanter gets too.
Whats interesting is I dont think I've ever heard anyone suggest that drows need more hps or that they suck real bad. matter of fact evils manage to do quite well with basically all elf casters. Perhaps its the lack of choice, heh.
interesting wouldn't you say? It only sucks cause there was a different choice, but didn't take it.
btw aren't great eqd hps in the neigborhood of 800 even for an elf and max somewhere around 850?...
------------------
------
where ara you my rittle raabuuri
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 08-09-2002).]
Whats interesting is I dont think I've ever heard anyone suggest that drows need more hps or that they suck real bad. matter of fact evils manage to do quite well with basically all elf casters. Perhaps its the lack of choice, heh.
interesting wouldn't you say? It only sucks cause there was a different choice, but didn't take it.
btw aren't great eqd hps in the neigborhood of 800 even for an elf and max somewhere around 850?...
------------------
------
where ara you my rittle raabuuri
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 08-09-2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Drache:
<B>Is it just me or do other elfy mages get 3 hps/level with perfect con? I don't understand that. A warrior's max is like 16/level ( I don't know the elven warrior though) but as the mage I always seem to get 3. In AD&D, a mage doesn't get 1/5 the hps of a warrior *sigh* How the heck would you KEEP rolling a 1 on a D4 w/the 2 hp con bonus??
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Try an elf warrior, their max hp is definately not 16 hp/lvl.
------------------
Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
<B>Is it just me or do other elfy mages get 3 hps/level with perfect con? I don't understand that. A warrior's max is like 16/level ( I don't know the elven warrior though) but as the mage I always seem to get 3. In AD&D, a mage doesn't get 1/5 the hps of a warrior *sigh* How the heck would you KEEP rolling a 1 on a D4 w/the 2 hp con bonus??
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Try an elf warrior, their max hp is definately not 16 hp/lvl.
------------------
Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
I get 3/level with 100 con. As a level 50 gnome enchanter I have approx. 190 hps naked.
I agree with the % question, but it is the way the mud is balanced. I just expect the warrior classes to rescue fast. If they do not, I do not group with them. I prefer faster mems, better spells, less ability to survive hits.
------------------
Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
I agree with the % question, but it is the way the mud is balanced. I just expect the warrior classes to rescue fast. If they do not, I do not group with them. I prefer faster mems, better spells, less ability to survive hits.
------------------
Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
interesting wouldn't you say? It only sucks cause there was a different choice, but didn't take it.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'll reiterate. It doesn't suck, the downsides of playing an elf are the bumps you take for going with the style option. You want to live a little longer go with another race, you want to eat it hard but look good while you do it, go elf!
Ashiwi - I might have three corpses, but so what? They all smell darned good!
interesting wouldn't you say? It only sucks cause there was a different choice, but didn't take it.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'll reiterate. It doesn't suck, the downsides of playing an elf are the bumps you take for going with the style option. You want to live a little longer go with another race, you want to eat it hard but look good while you do it, go elf!
Ashiwi - I might have three corpses, but so what? They all smell darned good!
Drow have an int notch or two over greys still I believe. Drows have innates.
Evils do not have a gnome equivalent. That is the real reason. Because drow are the best evil mages.
Grey elves are like the yuan-ti of goodies... Decent, but not quite viable in a lot of areas. Gnomes easily eclipse greys for a few reasons.
And no Kiryan, we cannot get 800 or 850 with equipment. Humans can, yes. Malacar, with almost maxxed gear with the exception of a tia staff and another orb of power(have a nebula) has 770hps. 772 with orb of power, so sans tiamat gear, that is max.
I constantly see gnomes walking around with 850... And they don't have to spend 20 levels on an island. A prison for greys that is supposed to offset for their 'power'.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 08-09-2002).]
Evils do not have a gnome equivalent. That is the real reason. Because drow are the best evil mages.
Grey elves are like the yuan-ti of goodies... Decent, but not quite viable in a lot of areas. Gnomes easily eclipse greys for a few reasons.
And no Kiryan, we cannot get 800 or 850 with equipment. Humans can, yes. Malacar, with almost maxxed gear with the exception of a tia staff and another orb of power(have a nebula) has 770hps. 772 with orb of power, so sans tiamat gear, that is max.
I constantly see gnomes walking around with 850... And they don't have to spend 20 levels on an island. A prison for greys that is supposed to offset for their 'power'.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 08-09-2002).]
I restate. I have max con, am a lvl 50 enchanter, and have 190ish naked hps. Same boat as you M.
I can still be bashed unless I reduce myself. I do tend to stand through earthquakes...
What are you wanting changed again? If you do not like being an elf, do not be one.
------------------
Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
I can still be bashed unless I reduce myself. I do tend to stand through earthquakes...
What are you wanting changed again? If you do not like being an elf, do not be one.
------------------
Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>Drow have an int notch or two over greys still I believe. Drows have innates.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually we don't There was a thread where you posted yer memtimes after the last tweaks and ours was identical.
When it comes to int and con, drow and grey are identical.
The only difference is that we gets a bunch of ventriloquate innates, as ultravision/infravision is just a matter of taste.
Drow = Grey, and elf casters rules all.
------------------
/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
<B>Drow have an int notch or two over greys still I believe. Drows have innates.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually we don't There was a thread where you posted yer memtimes after the last tweaks and ours was identical.
When it comes to int and con, drow and grey are identical.
The only difference is that we gets a bunch of ventriloquate innates, as ultravision/infravision is just a matter of taste.
Drow = Grey, and elf casters rules all.
------------------
/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>And no Kiryan, we cannot get 800 or 850 with equipment. Humans can, yes. Malacar, with almost maxxed gear with the exception of a tia staff and another orb of power(have a nebula) has 770hps. 772 with orb of power, so sans tiamat gear, that is max.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jegzed is at 783 hps, and I know I can improve to break 800 easily with a shadows cloak, and switching to another hp earring.
(And I got 189hp naked.)
------------------
/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
<B>And no Kiryan, we cannot get 800 or 850 with equipment. Humans can, yes. Malacar, with almost maxxed gear with the exception of a tia staff and another orb of power(have a nebula) has 770hps. 772 with orb of power, so sans tiamat gear, that is max.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jegzed is at 783 hps, and I know I can improve to break 800 easily with a shadows cloak, and switching to another hp earring.
(And I got 189hp naked.)
------------------
/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B> The only difference is that we gets a bunch of ventriloquate innates, as ultravision/infravision is just a matter of taste.
Drow = Grey, and elf casters rules all.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't they have innate lev and faerie fire as well? Those are extremely useful at lower levels, not so much so at higher levels. I never missed them as a grey.
<B> The only difference is that we gets a bunch of ventriloquate innates, as ultravision/infravision is just a matter of taste.
Drow = Grey, and elf casters rules all.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't they have innate lev and faerie fire as well? Those are extremely useful at lower levels, not so much so at higher levels. I never missed them as a grey.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fripple:
<B>What are you wanting changed again? If you do not like being an elf, do not be one.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Typical response. Try reading some posts on grey elves before you make comments like this please. They're inflammatory and really not helpful to the topic at hand.
You have the same hit points. We're almost identical. Yet Grey Elves have to spend 20 levels on an island because they are 'powerful'. And please spare me the 'its for role-playing!' stuff. It was never that case. Before gnomes were decent(read: mainstream) casters, the island restriction was put there(and summarily code changes went in to thoroughly enforce it) because grey elves were powerful and warranted it. Then gnomes became viable(whether through code or players discovering it mainstream, I don't know and won't pretend to, but suddenly they cropped up left and right). The restriction has stayed, whether through nostalgia or what have you, but it has absolutely no place in the Sojourn3 world of things, except to annoy and frustrate newbies and old players alike.
Our island is easily accessible to any tom, dick, or harry with relocate or moonwell. The only difference is they can't get into leuthilspar unless they are disguised. And there's really only 1 reason you'd want to anyways.
Note to gods: This is me venting frustration, so please don't go getting pissed off at me for posting this.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 08-09-2002).]
<B>What are you wanting changed again? If you do not like being an elf, do not be one.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Typical response. Try reading some posts on grey elves before you make comments like this please. They're inflammatory and really not helpful to the topic at hand.
You have the same hit points. We're almost identical. Yet Grey Elves have to spend 20 levels on an island because they are 'powerful'. And please spare me the 'its for role-playing!' stuff. It was never that case. Before gnomes were decent(read: mainstream) casters, the island restriction was put there(and summarily code changes went in to thoroughly enforce it) because grey elves were powerful and warranted it. Then gnomes became viable(whether through code or players discovering it mainstream, I don't know and won't pretend to, but suddenly they cropped up left and right). The restriction has stayed, whether through nostalgia or what have you, but it has absolutely no place in the Sojourn3 world of things, except to annoy and frustrate newbies and old players alike.
Our island is easily accessible to any tom, dick, or harry with relocate or moonwell. The only difference is they can't get into leuthilspar unless they are disguised. And there's really only 1 reason you'd want to anyways.
Note to gods: This is me venting frustration, so please don't go getting pissed off at me for posting this.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 08-09-2002).]
I stand corrected with the int thing. Wasn't positive on that, after the change, when I posted.
But drows are not forced to stick in a tiny subsection of zones til 20 either(they can be escorted, etc)...
As for gear.. I forgot I also need a mantle. So I can have 785hps whee.
The catch here is I haven't done many of the newest zones yet, like you have Jeg. I don't play all that much anymore. I DO play, just not enough to go to some of those places. Talk to me ingame about gear Jegzed, I am curious what you have that gives you that extra 'oomph' for hit points.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
But drows are not forced to stick in a tiny subsection of zones til 20 either(they can be escorted, etc)...
As for gear.. I forgot I also need a mantle. So I can have 785hps whee.
The catch here is I haven't done many of the newest zones yet, like you have Jeg. I don't play all that much anymore. I DO play, just not enough to go to some of those places. Talk to me ingame about gear Jegzed, I am curious what you have that gives you that extra 'oomph' for hit points.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
-
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
i thought being confined to the island was to reflect elves tendency to shun other races rather than a balance for their power. I would suggest that there are plenty of people that have a sense of camraderie purely because of the island thing. It makes you a lil special to be an elf, though obvisouly that feeling isnt shared 100%.
oh and the island is hardly accessible by evils, but i doubt you were really talking about us.
------------------
------
where ara you my rittle raabuuri
oh and the island is hardly accessible by evils, but i doubt you were really talking about us.
------------------
------
where ara you my rittle raabuuri
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>i thought being confined to the island was to reflect elves tendency to shun other races rather than a balance for their power. I would suggest that there are plenty of people that have a sense of camraderie purely because of the island thing. It makes you a lil special to be an elf, though obvisouly that feeling isnt shared 100%.
oh and the island is hardly accessible by evils, but i doubt you were really talking about us.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Cameraderie is one thing.. *shrug* I doubt it will ever change to be honest. People are too set in their ways. It's been named numerous times why the level restriction for evermeet is something that should be changed. Facts given, etc. If it hasn't happened by now, it never will.
Dead horse.. Not gonna hold this topic hostage either, sorry Drache.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
<B>i thought being confined to the island was to reflect elves tendency to shun other races rather than a balance for their power. I would suggest that there are plenty of people that have a sense of camraderie purely because of the island thing. It makes you a lil special to be an elf, though obvisouly that feeling isnt shared 100%.
oh and the island is hardly accessible by evils, but i doubt you were really talking about us.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Cameraderie is one thing.. *shrug* I doubt it will ever change to be honest. People are too set in their ways. It's been named numerous times why the level restriction for evermeet is something that should be changed. Facts given, etc. If it hasn't happened by now, it never will.
Dead horse.. Not gonna hold this topic hostage either, sorry Drache.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
Cry me a river please...elves have an unsurpassed mem time, good agi notches, good dex notches...so they are long lived, intelligent, slender, and graceful....downside..you are a bit more frail compared to other races. And perhaps there is a more nefarious purpose for sticking them on the island for 20 lvls but this game is based on the D&D Forgotten Realms setting where elves were in fact xenophobic...one rarely saw an elf on other continents and NO ONE but elves were allowed on Evermeet.
What are your options for playing an int caster on goody side?
Human: Probably the best hps, but they're slower on the mem than the other classes. Average stats all around.
Elf: Faster memming than humans, less hps, weaker, but also better tanks and hitters at low levels.
Gnome: Pretty similar to elves.
Okay- I think that's all of them. When you pick a race, if you want more hps, you go human. If you want faster memming times and slightly better tanking skills, you go gnome or elf. Gnome being slightly tougher than elves, and elves being slightly faster. I'm not seeing how this is unbalanced.
------------------
-Yayaril
Human: Probably the best hps, but they're slower on the mem than the other classes. Average stats all around.
Elf: Faster memming than humans, less hps, weaker, but also better tanks and hitters at low levels.
Gnome: Pretty similar to elves.
Okay- I think that's all of them. When you pick a race, if you want more hps, you go human. If you want faster memming times and slightly better tanking skills, you go gnome or elf. Gnome being slightly tougher than elves, and elves being slightly faster. I'm not seeing how this is unbalanced.
------------------
-Yayaril
If it's balanced, then why elf stuck in BFE for 20 levels? I kinda don't see the point of dex/agi cuz regardless they shouldn't be tanking. -100 is just that, so agi bonus is useless there as well (for mage maybe) since people say that's the cap. The 3 gnomes I had always got 4-6 hps consistantly, and occasional 7 hps made me grin. Elves get a flat-line 3 mostly. It makes me thing there's percentile.
90% for 3 hps
7% for 4 hps
3% for 5 hps on elf. You never see 6's Let alone 7's that gnomes do get. Not everybody is sooo lucky to get mega hp eq, specially semi-noobs as I am. Considering the seclusion and puniness, I'd like to see at least a .5 hp/level difference...my 2 cents
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
90% for 3 hps
7% for 4 hps
3% for 5 hps on elf. You never see 6's Let alone 7's that gnomes do get. Not everybody is sooo lucky to get mega hp eq, specially semi-noobs as I am. Considering the seclusion and puniness, I'd like to see at least a .5 hp/level difference...my 2 cents
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Drache:
<B>If it's balanced, then why elf stuck in BFE for 20 levels? I kinda don't see the point of dex/agi cuz regardless they shouldn't be tanking. -100 is just that, so agi bonus is useless there as well (for mage maybe) since people say that's the cap. The 3 gnomes I had always got 4-6 hps consistantly, and occasional 7 hps made me grin. Elves get a flat-line 3 mostly. It makes me thing there's percentile.
90% for 3 hps
7% for 4 hps
3% for 5 hps on elf. You never see 6's Let alone 7's that gnomes do get. Not everybody is sooo lucky to get mega hp eq, specially semi-noobs as I am. Considering the seclusion and puniness, I'd like to see at least a .5 hp/level difference...my 2 cents
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, illusionists get 1 hp more each level than enchanter/invokers.
Gnome enchanters/invoker get the same as grey enchanters/invokers.
------------------
/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
<B>If it's balanced, then why elf stuck in BFE for 20 levels? I kinda don't see the point of dex/agi cuz regardless they shouldn't be tanking. -100 is just that, so agi bonus is useless there as well (for mage maybe) since people say that's the cap. The 3 gnomes I had always got 4-6 hps consistantly, and occasional 7 hps made me grin. Elves get a flat-line 3 mostly. It makes me thing there's percentile.
90% for 3 hps
7% for 4 hps
3% for 5 hps on elf. You never see 6's Let alone 7's that gnomes do get. Not everybody is sooo lucky to get mega hp eq, specially semi-noobs as I am. Considering the seclusion and puniness, I'd like to see at least a .5 hp/level difference...my 2 cents
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, illusionists get 1 hp more each level than enchanter/invokers.
Gnome enchanters/invoker get the same as grey enchanters/invokers.
------------------
/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
-
- Sojourner
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
I get around 4 hp per lvl now as an elementalist, 258 naked at 48. So at 50 I'll probably have around 266. Currently I run with 820 hps soon to be 840. And that's not even with super high end gear. 860 or so is attainable.
My question is why is there such a large disparity between the illusionist/elementalist hps and invoker/enchanter? I've got more than any elf by far, more than most any human as well. Why?
My question is why is there such a large disparity between the illusionist/elementalist hps and invoker/enchanter? I've got more than any elf by far, more than most any human as well. Why?
When Fripple says he has max_con is that before or after 25th level? Since 25th and beyond is fixed, the con won't matter so I was told. Oh, yeah, I gained SURPRISE another '3'...wtf??
** Also, how come no staff has commented? It's beyond frustrating to see these sorry ass hps when I got my squid to 20, the average was about 4.5 or so, not elf, which is supposedly stronger/healthier..3,3,3,3,3,3?!?! ARGH!!
I only ask for staff comment not as a demand but as insight because I can't see how elfy gets worse than illithid considering illithid description and how they're like 1/2 as strong as elves too. Warriors have eq out there just as easily that raise hps.
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 08-09-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 08-09-2002).]
** Also, how come no staff has commented? It's beyond frustrating to see these sorry ass hps when I got my squid to 20, the average was about 4.5 or so, not elf, which is supposedly stronger/healthier..3,3,3,3,3,3?!?! ARGH!!
I only ask for staff comment not as a demand but as insight because I can't see how elfy gets worse than illithid considering illithid description and how they're like 1/2 as strong as elves too. Warriors have eq out there just as easily that raise hps.
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 08-09-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 08-09-2002).]
When Fripple says max con, it means he rolls chars to always have max con naked for getting ressed into zones and to not worry with con eq.
I still do not see what the problem with hps is except possibly for the point that Tanji/Rune makes. It was commented on previously in another thread and people let it die.
Otherwise, shrug, if you do not like the island, do not be an elf?
------------------
Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
I still do not see what the problem with hps is except possibly for the point that Tanji/Rune makes. It was commented on previously in another thread and people let it die.
Otherwise, shrug, if you do not like the island, do not be an elf?
------------------
Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
Well the best point I think of as of yet is you are pretty much guaranteed to lose at least 2 hps if you die while under 25 and lose a level. You will lose 5 or 6 hps, and you are pretty much guaranteed 3. Warriors and other classes aren't guaranteed such a pathetic roll/fate. If others address it and there's never a response, then it's my opion there should be - otherwise how we know they're noticing? When someone says something sucks, don't worry about it, but like you said, there've been other strings...maybe they should consider...
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>
oh and the island is hardly accessible by evils, but i doubt you were really talking about us.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I said it before, and I'll say it again:
Kiryan no know how to get to EM? That's unpossible! You knowa everyting!
God, there shouldn't even BE anymore whining about getting to the island, it's not impossible, nor hard anymore.
Twyl
------------------
I am jack's complete lack of effort.
<B>
oh and the island is hardly accessible by evils, but i doubt you were really talking about us.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I said it before, and I'll say it again:
Kiryan no know how to get to EM? That's unpossible! You knowa everyting!
God, there shouldn't even BE anymore whining about getting to the island, it's not impossible, nor hard anymore.
Twyl
------------------
I am jack's complete lack of effort.
-
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
not hard... i know a lot of things but an easy way to EM i do not.
portaling
getting an illusionist to ride the boat
camping on EM then getting unrenting there during crashes.
I suppose you could say either one of those is "easy" as in you don't have to kill anything all you have to do is convince someone to spend an hour of their time getting you to EM at least once.
Oh, guess I should toss these 2 in too.
Get a god to trans you (yea right)
rolling a level 20 character and renting him on EM as a shift target (oh yea thats illegal).
------------------
------
where ara you my rittle raabuuri
portaling
getting an illusionist to ride the boat
camping on EM then getting unrenting there during crashes.
I suppose you could say either one of those is "easy" as in you don't have to kill anything all you have to do is convince someone to spend an hour of their time getting you to EM at least once.
Oh, guess I should toss these 2 in too.
Get a god to trans you (yea right)
rolling a level 20 character and renting him on EM as a shift target (oh yea thats illegal).
------------------
------
where ara you my rittle raabuuri
Drache: "-100 is just that, so agi bonus is useless there as well (for mage maybe) since people say that's the cap."
I take offense to the agility not mattering for a mage. It makes elves well worth the island to have another notch. In zone, high agility (93) has saved my invoker's butt at least 30 times and torkur is only a human. Compared to my dwarf with 92 agility, the dwarf still falls 30 times more likely than my human invoker when earthquake is cast by a mob or PC.
When you're in rooms like the last fight in SF, it makes one hell of a difference whether you laugh and keep casting force missiles, or fall to the quake and die the next round to a switch/area spell.
My invoker at lvl 48 only has 220 hp or so with max con notch, so 30 hp natural is not a huge price if your agility beats a human's.
I take offense to the agility not mattering for a mage. It makes elves well worth the island to have another notch. In zone, high agility (93) has saved my invoker's butt at least 30 times and torkur is only a human. Compared to my dwarf with 92 agility, the dwarf still falls 30 times more likely than my human invoker when earthquake is cast by a mob or PC.
When you're in rooms like the last fight in SF, it makes one hell of a difference whether you laugh and keep casting force missiles, or fall to the quake and die the next round to a switch/area spell.
My invoker at lvl 48 only has 220 hp or so with max con notch, so 30 hp natural is not a huge price if your agility beats a human's.
The _point_ is that 3 hp/level is retarted, basically. The pro's and con's of their statistics isn't in question at all. You misunderstood. The problem is when you almost always gain 3/level and there's a class/race 'Psionisist' that's supposed to be 'frailer' than any other class and they routinely get 5-6 hps/level w/max con, whereas an elf will DEFINITELY get 3 hps most all the time. It's sickening. Agility is crap just a racial side effect, not getting 3 hp/level. My _sole_ question is why are elves getting 3 most all the time w/max con when no other class gets that as an average??? Elves are not the weakest, but their sorry ass hps are!
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
------------------
The watch sez: Time to kill!
-
- Sojourner
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:01 am
Whut sucks is any class/race combo that gets 3 hps virtually always w/perfect con...just absolutely doesn't seem right
** Considering the pivotal argument that ILLITHIDS are weaker/frailer and their average is well beyond 3 hps/level at perfect con.
[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 08-10-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 08-10-2002).]
** Considering the pivotal argument that ILLITHIDS are weaker/frailer and their average is well beyond 3 hps/level at perfect con.
[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 08-10-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 08-10-2002).]
After level 25, invokers and enchanters get 3 hp/level no matter what their race which makes less sense than elves racially having less hp. In both cases, such is life and game balance and I'm sure the staff have their reasons for it.
With most people having 2-3x the hp in eq compared to their natural hitpoints, it's really not the big deal you make it to be.
With most people having 2-3x the hp in eq compared to their natural hitpoints, it's really not the big deal you make it to be.
Hmm, I played an elf chanter to 48, and yeah it was annoying leveling up to 25 always getting 3hps, and I petitioned about it a few times and was ignored mostly.
The bottom line is that you really shouldn't care. If you want to play an elf, get used to getting 3hps/level before 25, even with the max con notch. At the end, there really isn't that much difference between an elf with 800hps and a gnome with 850hps, just like there isn't much of a difference if the elf at lvl50 can mem his 10th circle spell in 8seconds(not sure if that's right), and a gnome can mem it in 9seconds.
It's a moot point at level 50. I accepted the 3hp/level, as did malacar, anaram, arishae, etc. etc. etc. Ash said it best, being an elf is +style, and style > function, right toukage?
The bottom line is that you really shouldn't care. If you want to play an elf, get used to getting 3hps/level before 25, even with the max con notch. At the end, there really isn't that much difference between an elf with 800hps and a gnome with 850hps, just like there isn't much of a difference if the elf at lvl50 can mem his 10th circle spell in 8seconds(not sure if that's right), and a gnome can mem it in 9seconds.
It's a moot point at level 50. I accepted the 3hp/level, as did malacar, anaram, arishae, etc. etc. etc. Ash said it best, being an elf is +style, and style > function, right toukage?
I don't think 'just accept it' is really a good suggestion, bro.
That's like saying to just accept racism, or whatever. Perhaps a bad example, but if noone questions it and fights it, 'it' will never get changed.
And I've come to the conclusion that the hp arguement is moot personally. Elves have crappy hit points.
BUT, after speaking with a few illusionists and elementalists, I would like to know why they have an extra hp notch, over invokers and enchanters? This makes no sense. If anything, both of those classes should have the same. It's not a gnome thing, it's a class thing.
Also, I still firmly believe the elfgate should be removed or lowered. I find it funny that only grey elves:
1) cannot leave a subset of perhaps 7-10 zones until level 20
2) cannot be resurrected until level 20 (not saying they should, but anyone else can)
Yes, elves are xenophobic, but where does the line stop for 'theme'? Playability needs to be calculated in, as well as fun. I think the elfgate detracts from the latter two, and adds to theme. But I think there needs to be a good mix.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
That's like saying to just accept racism, or whatever. Perhaps a bad example, but if noone questions it and fights it, 'it' will never get changed.
And I've come to the conclusion that the hp arguement is moot personally. Elves have crappy hit points.
BUT, after speaking with a few illusionists and elementalists, I would like to know why they have an extra hp notch, over invokers and enchanters? This makes no sense. If anything, both of those classes should have the same. It's not a gnome thing, it's a class thing.
Also, I still firmly believe the elfgate should be removed or lowered. I find it funny that only grey elves:
1) cannot leave a subset of perhaps 7-10 zones until level 20
2) cannot be resurrected until level 20 (not saying they should, but anyone else can)
Yes, elves are xenophobic, but where does the line stop for 'theme'? Playability needs to be calculated in, as well as fun. I think the elfgate detracts from the latter two, and adds to theme. But I think there needs to be a good mix.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
Read it again, I said 3 hp/lvl for enchanters and invokers across the races, not for all classes across races.
It's only 3 hp/lvl post 25 for enchanters and invokers, not all mages classes. Necros,illusionists and elementalists get 4 hp/lvl after 25 which could be where you're confusing things like yaunti hp/lvl being 4.
I didn't know duergar could be mages, let alone get 5 hp/lvl after 25 as you say Drache, but for balance I still doubt they compete well with drow.
As far as I've ever seen though, these hp/lvl post level 25 are cross race for mage races, on the goodie side at least. I don't play evils, so I don't know them, but evils are balanced against a totally different set of races, so races like illithids getting different hp rolls pre 25 than elves does make sense even if they're supposed to be more frail.
Sorry, but elves losing 50 hp at lvl 25 for their great racial bonuses still makes sense to me.
It's only 3 hp/lvl post 25 for enchanters and invokers, not all mages classes. Necros,illusionists and elementalists get 4 hp/lvl after 25 which could be where you're confusing things like yaunti hp/lvl being 4.
I didn't know duergar could be mages, let alone get 5 hp/lvl after 25 as you say Drache, but for balance I still doubt they compete well with drow.
As far as I've ever seen though, these hp/lvl post level 25 are cross race for mage races, on the goodie side at least. I don't play evils, so I don't know them, but evils are balanced against a totally different set of races, so races like illithids getting different hp rolls pre 25 than elves does make sense even if they're supposed to be more frail.
Sorry, but elves losing 50 hp at lvl 25 for their great racial bonuses still makes sense to me.
Imho, Elfgate waiting until 20 needs looking at like Malacar says. Most of the time, as a high level it means you have to relocate over and plevel your friends or just general noobs who start, just so they can enjoy the "mainstream" areas.
CRs for those at level 20 really is annoying too because most people have some stuff by then they don't want to lose, you can't really xp at that level mostly naked if you can't CR, and you don't have a bunch of friends at that level who can help because your char has been stuck over there. I've helped quite a few people pleading over ooc or sending random tells for somebody to drag their body back to elfyland in this situation.
Lowering it to level 11 or 16 would be a lot nicer and still keep the penalty.
(Edit: Spelling and changed phrasing of a couple points of probable misinterpretation of harshness.)
[This message has been edited by torkur (edited 08-10-2002).]
CRs for those at level 20 really is annoying too because most people have some stuff by then they don't want to lose, you can't really xp at that level mostly naked if you can't CR, and you don't have a bunch of friends at that level who can help because your char has been stuck over there. I've helped quite a few people pleading over ooc or sending random tells for somebody to drag their body back to elfyland in this situation.
Lowering it to level 11 or 16 would be a lot nicer and still keep the penalty.
(Edit: Spelling and changed phrasing of a couple points of probable misinterpretation of harshness.)
[This message has been edited by torkur (edited 08-10-2002).]
I spent two wipes as an elf .. and i loved it ... to me it added to the elf mystique that noone but elves can get into their city and the elfgate was just part of it (20 levels is NOT that bad) ... i remember the first time i got my elf off EM ... i died to buffs :P lost level ... talk about sucksuck :P but i dealt with it ...
Poll all the grey elves .. the SERIOUS grey elves and see what they think .. i think you would be surprised ..
i think its great and doesnt need to even be considered ..
the hps issue
why hasnt it been said that voker and enchanter are two of the most powerful classes ... and have always been weaker and frailer than the other classes (physically) ... if we wanna complain about hps .. ask a squid ..
typically the more powerful ARE the weaker physically, ie squids, vokers, illusionists .... add to these if you agree
and so far my FAR frailer enchanter (870 hps cleric vitted) dies far less in zones than does my 1050+ hp Ogre shaman(self vit) hrrm ...
------------------
Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
Poll all the grey elves .. the SERIOUS grey elves and see what they think .. i think you would be surprised ..
i think its great and doesnt need to even be considered ..
the hps issue
why hasnt it been said that voker and enchanter are two of the most powerful classes ... and have always been weaker and frailer than the other classes (physically) ... if we wanna complain about hps .. ask a squid ..
typically the more powerful ARE the weaker physically, ie squids, vokers, illusionists .... add to these if you agree
and so far my FAR frailer enchanter (870 hps cleric vitted) dies far less in zones than does my 1050+ hp Ogre shaman(self vit) hrrm ...
------------------
Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
-
- Sojourner
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
I played an elf for a HELL of a long time. And I've also played these games for a hell of a long time, going on 10 years now. I've played EQ, AO, 20+ muds, yet the most powerful memory I have is going through that elfgate with a friend (he hit 20 an hour before and waited), and making it to WD for the first time. Now this was years ago when TG and Citadel gear was primo stuff, and Myranthea existed and EM consisted of Kobolds, the Vale, and Faerie Forest. But I wouldn't take that memory away from anyone. Leave the elfgate alone.
And honestly, if Elf was allowed for elementalists when I rolled mine, I would not have hesitated to roll one.
And honestly, if Elf was allowed for elementalists when I rolled mine, I would not have hesitated to roll one.
Are people really suggesting elves aren't totally screwed by their hps?
Answer this. What Race would you want for your
1. Warrior
2. Cleric
3. Enchanter
4. Invoker
5. Rogue
6. Ranger
7. Druid
**Got them all answered?*
If you answer Grey Elf to any of those, go play the game some more you need to learn what is important.
The only 2 reasons anyone plays an elf is... They like D&D and don't know any better
Or, they do it purely for RP reasons.
(or they wanna word back to EM because their is such uberpowerful EQ there *roll*)
Warrior There is a reason you see NO elf warriors anymore. The missing HP's get them killed.
Cleric
Salen sux as an elf, pure and simple. I would loose nothing but the ability to get to EM quickly had I been anything else. As for agility/dex.. Whatever. 1 instance in the game does it matter Earthquake. (I'm not even sure it is a big factor there)
As for what I gain, 50-150 hp's; not spending 20 levels on EM.
Enchy/Invoke
Gnomes get better HP's have same cast time, and don't have drawback of isolation.
Rogue
The class is built for damage. Dwarves/Humans do more damage than an elf + have more HP to survive in zones. +damage +hp = no reason to be elf (oh and evil rogues have a ton of EQ avail to them, try being an evil elf, I dare you)
Ranger
Half-elf has more HP to survive and gets all of the access to EQ a Grey does. Plus gets the choice of start city.
Druid See Ranger
If you wanna dispute these, go ahead. Do I think any change will come of it? nope
Am I wrong? Could be.
The Mud is simple math. Can you do X amount of damage to Mob A before it does Y damage to you.
Y=Total # of HP you have + vit + healing
+ 10
------------------
emote Rescuepractice
Answer this. What Race would you want for your
1. Warrior
2. Cleric
3. Enchanter
4. Invoker
5. Rogue
6. Ranger
7. Druid
**Got them all answered?*
If you answer Grey Elf to any of those, go play the game some more you need to learn what is important.
The only 2 reasons anyone plays an elf is... They like D&D and don't know any better
Or, they do it purely for RP reasons.
(or they wanna word back to EM because their is such uberpowerful EQ there *roll*)
Warrior There is a reason you see NO elf warriors anymore. The missing HP's get them killed.
Cleric
Salen sux as an elf, pure and simple. I would loose nothing but the ability to get to EM quickly had I been anything else. As for agility/dex.. Whatever. 1 instance in the game does it matter Earthquake. (I'm not even sure it is a big factor there)
As for what I gain, 50-150 hp's; not spending 20 levels on EM.
Enchy/Invoke
Gnomes get better HP's have same cast time, and don't have drawback of isolation.
Rogue
The class is built for damage. Dwarves/Humans do more damage than an elf + have more HP to survive in zones. +damage +hp = no reason to be elf (oh and evil rogues have a ton of EQ avail to them, try being an evil elf, I dare you)
Ranger
Half-elf has more HP to survive and gets all of the access to EQ a Grey does. Plus gets the choice of start city.
Druid See Ranger
If you wanna dispute these, go ahead. Do I think any change will come of it? nope
Am I wrong? Could be.
The Mud is simple math. Can you do X amount of damage to Mob A before it does Y damage to you.
Y=Total # of HP you have + vit + healing
+ 10
------------------
emote Rescuepractice
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dezzex:
I think elves are the only race that can enter the Hyssk island-to-EM portal.. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd been flat out told any yuan-ti over level 20 can enter portal TO EM.
Twyl
------------------
I am jack's complete lack of effort.
I think elves are the only race that can enter the Hyssk island-to-EM portal.. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd been flat out told any yuan-ti over level 20 can enter portal TO EM.
Twyl
------------------
I am jack's complete lack of effort.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests