New warrior skill

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kragt
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New warrior skill

Postby kragt » Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:14 pm

How bout giving warriors a skill called body hardening. Should be reflexive skill around 30th level that reduces the amount of damage warrs take from hits. At most should reduce 1/4-1/3 of the damage, and skill level should increase by taking hits.

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Zen
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Postby Zen » Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:20 pm

Warriors already dominate the tank business. Anything that needs to be adjusted needs to be adjusted for all melee classes. Something like this is only going to widen the gap between warriors and other tanks and semi-tank classes. That gap is big enough as it is.

-Lorgan

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kragt
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Postby kragt » Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:43 pm

For zoning fights it wouldn't matter much, with stone skin or scales to reduce the damage. This would only help warriors when trying to solo or in groups without stoner/scaler. The semi-warrior classes have their own advantages that outweigh a warriors tanking ability in these situations, like being able to heal themselves.

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Iktar
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Postby Iktar » Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:40 pm

at most 25~30% reduction in damage is a lot. say with vit your at 1k hp. and say in a fight you take on about 3 k of damage given that you receive 2 k and some hp of healage.

if u reduce that 3k damage you received by 25~30% dat'll be 750~1,000 hp you save with that skill. das like a fheal or two or three ... depending on lvl of caster.

how about giving us 95 dual skill max limit so we can be like ranger but better! =p
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Postby Treladian » Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:01 pm

"The semi-warrior classes have their own advantages that outweigh a warriors tanking ability in these situations, like being able to heal themselves."

Only if they tank once every 24 minutes.

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Postby Gromikazer » Sat Nov 09, 2002 1:11 pm

Heh, yea I forgot. Warriors are the most fun to play, and we have the most abilities to use in combat. It's unfortunate that all the other pseudo-hitters/hitters/pseudo-tanks/tanks are SOOOO much crappier then warriors. That sure is a load off my mind.

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Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Sat Nov 09, 2002 7:42 pm

I fail to see how a REFLEXIVE skill would make playing a warrior any more fun. Already being the most effective tanks in the game doesn't seem to be doing it for a lot of people, another skill you have no real control over isn't going to be a silver bullet for that problem.

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Postby Gyrx » Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:04 am

Couple things to say:

1. I could see this working more for dwarf and ogre warriors Image

2. *snicker gromi*

3. Clerics own in tanking too... Image

4. Ya..I want warriors to get some "fun" added Image
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Postby moritheil » Mon Nov 18, 2002 11:48 pm

I'll bring up my idea again, as an active skill.

You basically would keep attempting to slip in through the enemy's defenses and strike a critical blow.

Needless to say, messing up would be bad if you were tanking.

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Postby Sarell » Wed Nov 20, 2002 4:29 am

I definately agree that something needs to be done to make warriors not standing around whining that we cant go to smoke.

I don't think it has anything to do with warrior skills, more that casters just don't need you anymore. Tanking is about displace and stone not being a tank! Being an expendable pet isn't too bad either! The group dynamic for small groups and little bands of adventure is suffering because having a warrior isnt that important. They are the worst ninjas ever. Upgrade tanking skills, downgrade stone! *cackle* As it stands, I'd say a cleric FAR out-performs a ranger as a tank, they have the correct hitpoint buffer for the round where stone drops. Turn them knobs, for a week, see if we like it! *skip*. Might even make clerics pay attention for when the hits do get through not when stone drops..okay that is a bit far fetched...

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Extra paragraph about hardening since it is this topic oops hehe. Sounds like we need stone? I disagree, I want to stop the sword from hitting me not take it. Mobs are silly like that enough already.

[This message has been edited by Sarell (edited 11-19-2002).]
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Postby cherzra » Wed Nov 20, 2002 7:54 am

Everyone's bitched about spells making the tank. Skills don't matter because when your spells fade, you are fucked one way or the other and will die in 2 rounds. Hell if you are a cleric, chances are you have 2-300 more hp than a warrior anyway and you have a better chance of staying alive until you get another dscales/displace.

Gods don't seem to give a shit, as has been proven by the UTTER and COMPLETE lack of feedback on this and so many other things.
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Postby Daz » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:27 pm

i am an enchanter, at level 30 i have as many hit points as my warrior at 47, BUT i also can stone/blur myself.

chanters need displace!
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Postby Keran » Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:29 am

Go to bed Niles.
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Postby Tayros » Thu Nov 21, 2002 4:39 pm

Personally, giving warriors a high level quest based skill, say running around getting stuff and then finding a monk that teaches them triple attack at 46, is something id like to see.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Nov 21, 2002 6:35 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>Everyone's bitched about spells making the tank. Skills don't matter because when your spells fade, you are fucked one way or the other and will die in 2 rounds. Hell if you are a cleric, chances are you have 2-300 more hp than a warrior anyway and you have a better chance of staying alive until you get another dscales/displace.

Gods don't seem to give a shit, as has been proven by the UTTER and COMPLETE lack of feedback on this and so many other things.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

gods don't give a shit b/c we're the minority cherzra. as long as they think new people are playing they won't care. enjoy being the king of a MUD you always complain about.

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Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 21, 2002 6:37 pm

The thing is, is that warriors are not hitters. Uping their damage would make rangers and rogues less usefull. Give warriors a tank skill like some kind of shitty stone skin type thing. Give triple attack to rogues or rangers if it were to go in.

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Postby Sarell » Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:19 am

they gave warriors shieldblock, that is a tank like skill! ...it just isnt even in the league 3 leagues below stone...

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Postby thanuk » Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:59 pm

god i miss being 26/50 and tanking with a 2hand sword. If we're going to be tanks and not hitters, fine. If we're going to be hitters too, fine. But make us something. Currently, a warrior is a spellwhore that rescues. The only thing that makes us better than a spirit is that we can rescue every round without lag. We got shieldpunch that doesnt stun, we got hitall that lags you 3 rounds for every mob you hit(btw id love to see an invoker get lagged for 3 rounds for every mob his area spell that does 10x more damage than 1 warrior attack hits, bye bye voker) and we can bash, but any mob of any decent power is too big to bash, or its a lich in which case it procs regardless of being bashed. You know how long it takes me to kill 1 banedead by myself? 1? with an 8d4 weapon and haste? forever and a day. But if i walk into kraken i die in 1 round, same as an invoker. Some defensive skills.

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Postby Unag » Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:37 pm

Well as a newbie here are some things I've noticed about melee in general that I'm just not sure I understand. (Someone feel free to correct me or enlighten me if I'm missing something)

a.) Hitroll/Damroll is heavily heavily equipment based it seems. At least in 14 levels I haven't noticed any change in them at all - not even a single +1 to either of them meaning I'm screwed unless I can find myself some new equipment.

b.) Why use a 2-Handed weapon? The defensive benefits to shield/weapon combination definitely seem to overpower any benefits you might get from wielding a 2hander. Particularly since melee damage really seems underpowered. I'll test this out further as I level though.

c.) Mobs seem to be better at melee than we are. The other day I got into a scrap with a mountain goat and discovered quite rapidly that it got three attacks. I, an ogre warrior at 14th level got 1 attack. So a goat that was probably a third my size and hence could not be bashed, with absolutely no martial training or even humanoid intelligence beat the snot out of me and was even able to track me over a nice long distance for days on end until the server rebooted. Is there something I'm missing here? Because frankly I'm wondering if we shouldn't be able to choose goats as a player race.

d.) The selection of skills for a warrior vs. those for other classes seems puzzling at best. Near as I can tell, just about all the other melee classes get our skills. We just get them earlier. The only exception to this being headbutt. Why then would one want to play a warrior instead of a paladin or a ranger? Does this mean that warriors have a higher skill level limitation on this skills? I'm really confused about this one so if any one can explain it - I'd really appreciate it.
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Postby Disoputlip » Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:51 pm

Could be fun to see something in the field.

Mabye an active skill that instantly dropped the warriors to hit/dam by -20 each +gave them 1 att/round. And instead gave them the all out defence that they lack. It would then be mostly efficient with 2 warriors. so the one that didnt tank could bash.

I don't think warriors need upgrade though, but more skills so the clever elite could use different strategies would rock.
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Postby Disoputlip » Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:56 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Unag:
<B>Well as a newbie here are some things I've noticed about melee in general that I'm just not sure I understand. (Someone feel free to correct me or enlighten me if I'm missing something)

a.) Hitroll/Damroll is heavily heavily equipment based it seems. At least in 14 levels I haven't noticed any change in them at all - not even a single +1 to either of them meaning I'm screwed unless I can find myself some new equipment.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

don't wanna steal thread:

Hit roll is level based, its like a term in AD&D called Thac0. So dont worry, each level you get, you get better at hitting. The skill you need to focus on for damage is called offence, and you train it by fighting.

Thus, just because you dont get more +dam/lvl in "att" you get better at both hitting and hurtin' all the time.

/D
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Postby Zen » Sun Dec 01, 2002 1:37 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Unag:
d.) The selection of skills for a warrior vs. those for other classes seems puzzling at best. Near as I can tell, just about all the other melee classes get our skills. We just get them earlier. The only exception to this being headbutt. Why then would one want to play a warrior instead of a paladin or a ranger? Does this mean that warriors have a higher skill level limitation on this skills? I'm really confused about this one so if any one can explain it - I'd really appreciate it.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Warriors dominate over the other classes because the advantages of (anti)paladins are a drop in the bucket compared to the spells of support casters. Evils have no other tanking options, and good race warriors typicaly have more hps than (anti)paladins. In a nutshell, spells make the tank, and warriors have the most hitpoints and can take the most spells (embodiment) without loosing their defensive abilities. It really is about the spells and the hitpoints, and not about the skills.

-Lorgan

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Unag
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Postby Unag » Sun Dec 01, 2002 1:54 am

Ah! I see!
Thanks for the information Disoputlip and Zen both. Getting back on topic with the original topic, perhaps some sort of setting could be developed that allows a warrior to determine how much they wish to concentrate on defense vs. offense? I saw something similar coded on another circle style mud. A warrior has a pool of dice and/or percentage which is allocated to offense, while the rest of that pool is allocated to defense. Depending on the way they choose to allocate, a warrior could perhaps obtain a bonus to their defensive skills, while suffering a penalty to their hitrolls/damage or vice versa if they allocate more to offense than defense.
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Postby Sylvos » Sun Dec 01, 2002 2:16 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Unag:
<B>
c.) So a goat that was probably a third my size and hence could not be bashed, with absolutely no martial training or even humanoid intelligence beat the snot out of me and was even able to track me over a nice long distance for days on end until the server rebooted. Is there something I'm missing here? Because frankly I'm wondering if we shouldn't be able to choose goats as a player race.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps the biggest reason for this is the number of sexual harrassment charges the gods would have to deal with regarding Gormal. :P

Sylvos

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