ok, we all know what its like. running through vault, at the end of the group, you look into your bag. silvery war axe. silver cinch cord. black iron battle sledge. who knows what all equipment is leftover from which zones.
in some muds there are places and ways to 'donate' your equipment. if something like this would be allowed on sojourn, here are some of the things i think would have to happen to make it work.
1 - equipment in the donation 'chest' or storage would not vanish on a crash/reboot.
2 - when equipment is donated, it loses all store value, and gains the transient flag.
3 - current stores stop paying so damn much for newbie eq, preventing it from falling into the hands of said newbies.
4 - perhaps reward players with possible random prestige based on the value of the item lost. corth wants to donate loki armor? yeah, that merits prestige i think.
5 - make a limit to how much you can take from the donation area. perhaps 1-2 items every mud day for example.
6 - make a way so that true newbies can get a general approximation on a) can they use it and b) is it any good.
I think that if these things are done, then it would go a long way to helping players find equipment. players would not have to sit at market square asking for eq. high level players, through use of the potential prestige rewards, would be encouraged to contribute. we restrain abuse by limiting the number of items a player can get. finally, by removing store value and adding the transient flag, we can keep people from donating and then self looting eq just for potential prestige.
Obviously there are more restrictions and restraints that we would have to put in place, but this could be a win-win situation for all involved i think.
equipment donations
sounds familiar......
played a mud where you could take what ever you wanted from the donation room, as much as you wanted
you could donate to it from anywhere in the world
and when it crashes/reboots that eq is gone
donation == mainly for n00bs or people changing classes/races to get a start
worked well there
then again so did auction channel/bored .. :P
------------------
MoM-D
played a mud where you could take what ever you wanted from the donation room, as much as you wanted
you could donate to it from anywhere in the world
and when it crashes/reboots that eq is gone
donation == mainly for n00bs or people changing classes/races to get a start
worked well there
then again so did auction channel/bored .. :P
------------------
MoM-D
Hmm, for some reason I don't like this. Let me see if I can figure out why.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
in some muds there are places and ways to 'donate' your equipment.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yup, as a newbie on other muds, I liked the well.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
equipment in the donation 'chest' or storage would not vanish on a crash/reboot.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Except there's too much equip on Soj3 already, no? So it would be better for the mud if it did vanish.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
when equipment is donated, it loses all store value, and gains the transient flag.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Losing store value: good. Transient: ick. Too easy to lose, and if you're potentially donating something good to encourage and help folks, that seems counter to the basic idea. Though it does require that they're only one mistake away from having to get their own equip, so maybe that's good.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
current stores stop paying so damn much for newbie eq, preventing it from falling into the hands of said newbies.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I always thought the reason the stores paid anything for low level equip is so newbies could raise some funds on their own. And that first sale or two is a real thrill! Killing mobs that give silver and copper, and then you kill something and sell its equip for gold! Even a plat! Whoot!
This seems odd. One the one hand, if you're giving something only to get something in return, it's not really a gift. (Yeah, yeah, it's way more complicated than that, that's an idealistic perspective on the situation, but paragraphs of qualifying sentences would be boring. Work with me here.) On the other hand, prestige isn't "worth" anything yet, so how is that a reward?
I dunno, I feel that if it's useless to you, and you want to help someone out, give it to 'em. If you don't want to help, duckpond it, or leave it on the floor in the zone. But you want a RE-ward for being kind? Shee-it, don't do me no such favors, ok?
This, from me, and I figure about 2/3 of the stuff I've worn on Soj3 was given to me as a gift. I feel all warm and fuzzy when I realize just how many people gave me something valuable, just to help out, or for old times sake. It's one big reason I still mud here. And I think that it encourages newbies to stay: Players here will give you decent equip, and help you out, with no benefit to themselves. (Somehow I'm reminded of the insult "You're so ugly, we had to tie a steak around your neck so the dog would play with you.")
Even the few true newbies I see are going around with equip from lvl 10 to 20 mobs, before they're lvl 5. They're going around with lvl 30 equip by the time they're lvl 10 or 15. Getting newbies decent equipment ain't a problem, by everything I can see.
In fact, I would say there is the opposite problem: Newbies get too much equip too easy. Why, back in my day...nm, different topic. Or maybe not.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
in some muds there are places and ways to 'donate' your equipment.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yup, as a newbie on other muds, I liked the well.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
equipment in the donation 'chest' or storage would not vanish on a crash/reboot.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Except there's too much equip on Soj3 already, no? So it would be better for the mud if it did vanish.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
when equipment is donated, it loses all store value, and gains the transient flag.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Losing store value: good. Transient: ick. Too easy to lose, and if you're potentially donating something good to encourage and help folks, that seems counter to the basic idea. Though it does require that they're only one mistake away from having to get their own equip, so maybe that's good.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
current stores stop paying so damn much for newbie eq, preventing it from falling into the hands of said newbies.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I always thought the reason the stores paid anything for low level equip is so newbies could raise some funds on their own. And that first sale or two is a real thrill! Killing mobs that give silver and copper, and then you kill something and sell its equip for gold! Even a plat! Whoot!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">perhaps reward players with possible random prestige based on the value of the item lost. corth wants to donate loki armor? yeah, that merits prestige i think.</font>
This seems odd. One the one hand, if you're giving something only to get something in return, it's not really a gift. (Yeah, yeah, it's way more complicated than that, that's an idealistic perspective on the situation, but paragraphs of qualifying sentences would be boring. Work with me here.) On the other hand, prestige isn't "worth" anything yet, so how is that a reward?
I dunno, I feel that if it's useless to you, and you want to help someone out, give it to 'em. If you don't want to help, duckpond it, or leave it on the floor in the zone. But you want a RE-ward for being kind? Shee-it, don't do me no such favors, ok?
This, from me, and I figure about 2/3 of the stuff I've worn on Soj3 was given to me as a gift. I feel all warm and fuzzy when I realize just how many people gave me something valuable, just to help out, or for old times sake. It's one big reason I still mud here. And I think that it encourages newbies to stay: Players here will give you decent equip, and help you out, with no benefit to themselves. (Somehow I'm reminded of the insult "You're so ugly, we had to tie a steak around your neck so the dog would play with you.")
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I think that if these things are done, then it would go a long way to helping players find equipment</font>
Even the few true newbies I see are going around with equip from lvl 10 to 20 mobs, before they're lvl 5. They're going around with lvl 30 equip by the time they're lvl 10 or 15. Getting newbies decent equipment ain't a problem, by everything I can see.
In fact, I would say there is the opposite problem: Newbies get too much equip too easy. Why, back in my day...nm, different topic. Or maybe not.
Why not sell it in the shops in WD? When I was a newbie, I really liked looking at what was in the weapons/armor shops and saving my money to buy them. I know it wouldn't be persistent across boots but if players did this regularly out of habit then lower level players could count on seeing this stuff in the stores frequently.
[This message has been edited by Yadir (edited 12-17-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Yadir (edited 12-17-2002).]
1 - nothing of value sells to stores at relative worth.
2 - making items transient is there to prevent twinkiness. ragorn did a wonderful job of explaining one of the uses of this. to a new player, if his purple earthstone rings are transient - then maybe he will learn to take care of them.
3 - once every 5 reboots i see an item at the shop that level 20 character would be well off owning. to say that there are good things for players to buy in stores indicates that you haven't compared what is in stores to what people stash on storage/bagged/alts for various alts and sink quests.
2 - making items transient is there to prevent twinkiness. ragorn did a wonderful job of explaining one of the uses of this. to a new player, if his purple earthstone rings are transient - then maybe he will learn to take care of them.
3 - once every 5 reboots i see an item at the shop that level 20 character would be well off owning. to say that there are good things for players to buy in stores indicates that you haven't compared what is in stores to what people stash on storage/bagged/alts for various alts and sink quests.
Originally posted by Daz:
1 - nothing of value sells to stores at relative worth.
You want to give it to them. Where's the relative worth in that?
3 - once every 5 reboots i see an item at the shop that level 20 character would be well off owning. to say that there are good things for players to buy in stores indicates that you haven't compared what is in stores to what people stash on storage/bagged/alts for various alts and sink quests.
What I said was.. IF people sold nicer eq to stores on a regular basis THEN newbie players would be able to find it there frequently.
[This message has been edited by Yadir (edited 12-18-2002).]
1 - nothing of value sells to stores at relative worth.
You want to give it to them. Where's the relative worth in that?
3 - once every 5 reboots i see an item at the shop that level 20 character would be well off owning. to say that there are good things for players to buy in stores indicates that you haven't compared what is in stores to what people stash on storage/bagged/alts for various alts and sink quests.
What I said was.. IF people sold nicer eq to stores on a regular basis THEN newbie players would be able to find it there frequently.
[This message has been edited by Yadir (edited 12-18-2002).]
I'm against the impersonality of this. My reasoning is thus: Soj is based on player-player interaction. If you get something from the ground, it's easy to mentally dismiss how you got it and not realize that it involved higher levels going out and dying in some zone.
By all means, give your spare eq to worthy newbies. But let there be connections built, such that the newer generation has communication with the old.
------------------
Shevarash responds to your petition with 'You are the wind beneath my wings.'
By all means, give your spare eq to worthy newbies. But let there be connections built, such that the newer generation has communication with the old.
------------------
Shevarash responds to your petition with 'You are the wind beneath my wings.'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B>N00b shouts 'frostbite ft!'
Whats the point?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
mmm. He is not worthy?
------------------
Shevarash responds to your petition with 'You are the wind beneath my wings.'
<B>N00b shouts 'frostbite ft!'
Whats the point?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
mmm. He is not worthy?
------------------
Shevarash responds to your petition with 'You are the wind beneath my wings.'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
<B> mmm. He is not worthy?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think Thanuk means, why give it to them in the first place? I prefer to hand my eq to them personally, to see if they can use it, better for them, etc.
Becuase a donation well would be misused. Newbies looting it dry, instead of sharing it out. Bad idea, good intentions.
------------------
Meatshield
<B> mmm. He is not worthy?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think Thanuk means, why give it to them in the first place? I prefer to hand my eq to them personally, to see if they can use it, better for them, etc.
Becuase a donation well would be misused. Newbies looting it dry, instead of sharing it out. Bad idea, good intentions.
------------------
Meatshield
True Daz, I just prefer the personal touch of giving out eq. Donation wells would be nice, but I see a couple of problems...
1. Only allowing a couple pieces a day ...
Would the different timezones suffer? Would the proper classes get the proper eq? (I'd hate to see a nice mage piece be picked up by a warrior)
What stops someone from rerolling another character to get another two pieces?
2. Transient flag...could punish the true noobs. I still get caught with that one....
3. Losing it's value...I like the fact when I give a piece of eq, if after they are done with it, they can get some plat for it.
But all in all, is a very nice thought. Personally, I wouldn't be adding to the well. I'll help in my own way if i choose. But heck, any idea that helps out newbies is cool by me.
------------------
Meatshield
1. Only allowing a couple pieces a day ...
Would the different timezones suffer? Would the proper classes get the proper eq? (I'd hate to see a nice mage piece be picked up by a warrior)
What stops someone from rerolling another character to get another two pieces?
2. Transient flag...could punish the true noobs. I still get caught with that one....
3. Losing it's value...I like the fact when I give a piece of eq, if after they are done with it, they can get some plat for it.
But all in all, is a very nice thought. Personally, I wouldn't be adding to the well. I'll help in my own way if i choose. But heck, any idea that helps out newbies is cool by me.
------------------
Meatshield
So just why is a donation well necessary in Sojourn? Are there newbies out there that we don't drape in whatever little bits we have available that we're not using? Lilithelle IS the donation well for Evermeet, so I know our little elves are taken care of. I much prefer the person-to-person handing down, it makes for a much better experience than just walking into a room and rifling through a pile of castoffs. As nice as equipment is, it can never beat a little face-to-face.
not everyone plays the same time period. not everyone likes or knows to ask for help. this could be a once a day trip for a new player, sort of a 'lets see what i can find' excursion, a goodwill of the mud.
make players only about to grab eq that they can actually use from the donation spot.
i don't know why i waste my time trying to find ways to help people here, you people are obviously so violently opposed to ANYTHING that wasn't the exact same thing that you did that anything else doesn't even merit consideration.
i have adressed each and every negative response about the actual implementation of my idea. the rest of the negative posts that i did not adress were by people who don't even bother to take the time to understand what i am talking about.
make players only about to grab eq that they can actually use from the donation spot.
i don't know why i waste my time trying to find ways to help people here, you people are obviously so violently opposed to ANYTHING that wasn't the exact same thing that you did that anything else doesn't even merit consideration.
i have adressed each and every negative response about the actual implementation of my idea. the rest of the negative posts that i did not adress were by people who don't even bother to take the time to understand what i am talking about.
Ok so if donation wells were imped ....
Why would you place restrictions on the stuff??
Isn't charity all in good will??
I personally used to get stuff from the donation wells in Leuthilspar (Leuths was at inn ... WD's was sw corner .. far as i know it still sits there).... It was crap to someone but gold to me ... if my new treasures poofed when i dropped them, i might not be here today ....
I know we evils don't sell eq, we hand it down ... or we simply drop it at the DK ftn ... (most of us anyway) In fact I have little to give away anymore because I have already given it away
You give item X to a new person ...
New person tells you 'how much ya want for it?'
You tell new person 'yer shittin me right?? take it, use it, when you get better .. hand it down to another new person'
------------------
Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
Why would you place restrictions on the stuff??
Isn't charity all in good will??
I personally used to get stuff from the donation wells in Leuthilspar (Leuths was at inn ... WD's was sw corner .. far as i know it still sits there).... It was crap to someone but gold to me ... if my new treasures poofed when i dropped them, i might not be here today ....
I know we evils don't sell eq, we hand it down ... or we simply drop it at the DK ftn ... (most of us anyway) In fact I have little to give away anymore because I have already given it away
You give item X to a new person ...
New person tells you 'how much ya want for it?'
You tell new person 'yer shittin me right?? take it, use it, when you get better .. hand it down to another new person'
------------------
Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B>you people are obviously so violently opposed to ANYTHING that wasn't the exact same thing that you did that anything else doesn't even merit consideration.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah, and that's the crux of it. You have to ask yourself, WHY are they so against this? There must be a reason.
It's because player-player interaction, not player-mob interaction, is supposed to be the fundamental basis of Sojourn.
------------------
Toarn group-says 'my lvl 50 buffer has officially been Mori-fied.'
Shevarash tells you 'you want to mud marry me? *scratch*'
<B>you people are obviously so violently opposed to ANYTHING that wasn't the exact same thing that you did that anything else doesn't even merit consideration.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah, and that's the crux of it. You have to ask yourself, WHY are they so against this? There must be a reason.
It's because player-player interaction, not player-mob interaction, is supposed to be the fundamental basis of Sojourn.
------------------
Toarn group-says 'my lvl 50 buffer has officially been Mori-fied.'
Shevarash tells you 'you want to mud marry me? *scratch*'
I agree with mori. The interaction of meeting someone etc etc is one of the great fun aspects of this mud for me. Global donation systems reek of cheese to me. I don't like the idea of doing this giving prestige, I think it would harbour the unprestigious acts of people ransacking the mud so they could donate the things. I much rather meet up with new folk in town and take them on adventures etc than donate something they have no idea about to a well.
One thing I do like to do in particular with gear is to go on an adventure with a newer player and throw in a bigger prize at the end, a little incentive to go out and explore and do some nasty ninja tricks in UM whatever. Shrug... Dont like wells full of gear, love the shops. The newer little asterix that shows what gear you cannot use in shop solved heaps of problems there. Saving up buying things etc is heaps of fun. Sometimes if I have some left over I like to sell it so that the players who do go out fight some orc get some coins go to the shops are a bit better rewarded than those that shout give me gear. Shrug.. rant rant
------------------
One thing I do like to do in particular with gear is to go on an adventure with a newer player and throw in a bigger prize at the end, a little incentive to go out and explore and do some nasty ninja tricks in UM whatever. Shrug... Dont like wells full of gear, love the shops. The newer little asterix that shows what gear you cannot use in shop solved heaps of problems there. Saving up buying things etc is heaps of fun. Sometimes if I have some left over I like to sell it so that the players who do go out fight some orc get some coins go to the shops are a bit better rewarded than those that shout give me gear. Shrug.. rant rant
------------------
Maybe a better idea would be for shops not to wipe all the eq they got sold after every boot? But then u get the problem of a 200 line item list pretty fast...i dunno but i remember being a n00b and nothing sucked more than killing merchants for their diamonds for 3 hours to buy something spanky for 20p in the shop only to have the mud crash right before you got the money up, and the item poofed. I like the idea of better access for newbies/lowbies to better eq, but i think they should at least have to work a little bit for it.
------------------
Thanuk Pantherclaw
Udor says 'con doesnt do shit'
------------------
Thanuk Pantherclaw
Udor says 'con doesnt do shit'
-
Eilorn
- Sojourner
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Salt Lake City,UT,USA 84116
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
...i dunno but i remember being a n00b and nothing sucked more than killing merchants for their diamonds for 3 hours to buy something spanky for 20p in the shop only to have the mud crash right before you got the money up, and the item poofed.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And nothing really sucked more than spending that hard earned cash on a 1d8 +0/+0 sword that was no better than what you had. Worth and price do not mesh in shops.
Eilorn.
------------------
Now, we can do this the hard way, or... well, actually there's just the hard way.
-- Buffy, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"
...i dunno but i remember being a n00b and nothing sucked more than killing merchants for their diamonds for 3 hours to buy something spanky for 20p in the shop only to have the mud crash right before you got the money up, and the item poofed.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And nothing really sucked more than spending that hard earned cash on a 1d8 +0/+0 sword that was no better than what you had. Worth and price do not mesh in shops.
Eilorn.
------------------
Now, we can do this the hard way, or... well, actually there's just the hard way.
-- Buffy, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"
I don't see anything wrong with the methods of donation to newbies as it is right now. Rarely do I actually see a newbie that is dressed in newbie eq for long at all. They always find something to fill slots eventualy. Sooner.. later... it doesn't matter a whole lot. When people ask me for a certain type of slot they want to fill.. this is my favorite type of question and I will usually give something nice if I have it. Peopel saying give me a lot of nice eq or asking me all the time.. I sometimes won't give anything to at all.
Anyhow.. newbs know that other people have eq and they aquire it through meeting people. I don't see anything wrong with this system. I always thought that eq was supposed to be earned through groupping and helping other people get stuff as well. I thought this to be extrememly fun at the begining of the wipe when everyone was wearing ghetto eq just to fill all thier slots. I am somewhat unsympathetic for that reason when it comes to handing out nice gear to real low level people.
Anyhow.. newbs know that other people have eq and they aquire it through meeting people. I don't see anything wrong with this system. I always thought that eq was supposed to be earned through groupping and helping other people get stuff as well. I thought this to be extrememly fun at the begining of the wipe when everyone was wearing ghetto eq just to fill all thier slots. I am somewhat unsympathetic for that reason when it comes to handing out nice gear to real low level people.
I think it only hurts true noobs to give them the really nice gear right off. I'll give them something fairly low level, stuff to fill stat gaps, decent AC, but I usually won't hand out things like TF chains or emerald gaunts to beginning players. It kind of takes the fun out of them being able to go get the gear for themselves.
im with daz on this one...lilithelle wasnt there for me when i started my ranger (first char) i soloed him to lvl 15 on the gear i started with..(not very easy) then i started getting eq off of mobs in ef..i think a donationwell would be great..besides you guys dont always have spare eq...im lvl 37 now and im still wearing the same eq i picked up from duard and desh at lvl 20 on the other hand donation wells could become twink heaven.. so i see both arguments...(make a donation god)
one that could hand out the eq to true noobs...
one that could hand out the eq to true noobs...
good idea here, I know for me it would have helped when I first came here to have at least a couple pieces of sumpin, + the quest spell points to add incentive nog's good idea hope it gets imp'd
------------------
flib=rockin!
was pondering on the other posts, I still like the idea but mebbe hrmm, like make it level 1-15 accesible only or mebbe even 5-15.. and (not sure if this can be done) have a record of what the port number is and all that and limit that to either 1-2 characters ever. that's my thoughts
[This message has been edited by xa (edited 12-31-2002).]
------------------
flib=rockin!
was pondering on the other posts, I still like the idea but mebbe hrmm, like make it level 1-15 accesible only or mebbe even 5-15.. and (not sure if this can be done) have a record of what the port number is and all that and limit that to either 1-2 characters ever. that's my thoughts
[This message has been edited by xa (edited 12-31-2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B>Maybe a better idea would be for shops not to wipe all the eq they got sold after every boot? But then u get the problem of a 200 line item list pretty fast...i dunno but i remember being a n00b and nothing sucked more than killing merchants for their diamonds for 3 hours to buy something spanky for 20p in the shop only to have the mud crash right before you got the money up, and the item poofed. I like the idea of better access for newbies/lowbies to better eq, but i think they should at least have to work a little bit for it.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excellent idea really. Keeps the noobs from hanging out at fs board asking for gear. Gives them a reason to go out and kill for coins. Or everyone could have their own personal auctions hehehe, but depending on the time zone you are in, you may not have many chances to purchase gear.
------------------
No matter how hard you try, you still can't throw a potatoe chip very far.
<B>Maybe a better idea would be for shops not to wipe all the eq they got sold after every boot? But then u get the problem of a 200 line item list pretty fast...i dunno but i remember being a n00b and nothing sucked more than killing merchants for their diamonds for 3 hours to buy something spanky for 20p in the shop only to have the mud crash right before you got the money up, and the item poofed. I like the idea of better access for newbies/lowbies to better eq, but i think they should at least have to work a little bit for it.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excellent idea really. Keeps the noobs from hanging out at fs board asking for gear. Gives them a reason to go out and kill for coins. Or everyone could have their own personal auctions hehehe, but depending on the time zone you are in, you may not have many chances to purchase gear.
------------------
No matter how hard you try, you still can't throw a potatoe chip very far.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests