Kiryan insightfully put forth that each new class has to have a niche.
I thought about the lack of good area dmg vs. shrugging mobs, and the fact that there are no melee area damage specialists.
So, without further ado, the Kensai.
Taken roughly from the D&D class, the Kensai is a highly skilled fighter that never wears magic weapons or armor.
Those veterans reading this will realize a) good eq will be ungodly hard to find for such a class at high levels, and b) such a class will be powerless against supernatural beings that require magic weapons to hit.
However, due to their incredibly rigorous training and great skill, Kensai also recieve certain innate bonuses that scale with level.
-Part 2 Forthcoming-
New Melee Class
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dalar:
the kensai sound like an 'oriental' name. the mud is !oriental (help names!)</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is, it's a special type of monk, actually...
How about:
Swashbuckler (hehe)
Kamikaze? Oops, too oriental...
Swordmaster... But then they'd only use swords...
Hrmmm...
Only names I can really think of are oriental names...
Wait...
We already have a weapon with a similar name...
How about Valkery? (I know I'm misspelling it, sorry folks!)
Blade Dancer...
Or maybe...
This could be a good way to introduce kits... Mebbe make this a warrior kit, mebbe Human only, so more people will play Human warrior
OHHHH! Brainstorm...
Everyone is always complaining about lack of Elven warriors...
How about an Elven Blade Dancer kit? It would make Elven warriors "useful" once again, and add a nice bit of diversity...
Or make two similar kits, a Human swordfighter and an Elven Blade Dancer, having them basically similar, but mebbe add a bit of flair to demonstrate the unique usefulness of both classes, and an extra touch to a couple races and a class I see everyone constantly ranting about...
Nod me!
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Taegost, The one and ONLY STUPER DRUID(tm)
the kensai sound like an 'oriental' name. the mud is !oriental (help names!)</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is, it's a special type of monk, actually...
How about:
Swashbuckler (hehe)
Kamikaze? Oops, too oriental...
Swordmaster... But then they'd only use swords...
Hrmmm...
Only names I can really think of are oriental names...
Wait...
We already have a weapon with a similar name...
How about Valkery? (I know I'm misspelling it, sorry folks!)
Blade Dancer...
Or maybe...
This could be a good way to introduce kits... Mebbe make this a warrior kit, mebbe Human only, so more people will play Human warrior
OHHHH! Brainstorm...
Everyone is always complaining about lack of Elven warriors...
How about an Elven Blade Dancer kit? It would make Elven warriors "useful" once again, and add a nice bit of diversity...
Or make two similar kits, a Human swordfighter and an Elven Blade Dancer, having them basically similar, but mebbe add a bit of flair to demonstrate the unique usefulness of both classes, and an extra touch to a couple races and a class I see everyone constantly ranting about...
Nod me!
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Taegost, The one and ONLY STUPER DRUID(tm)
Yes dalar, I am aware of that. *pats Dalar on the head* Thanks so much for waiting for the idea to be completed.
Frankly, I don't care what you call the class. it is BASED ON Kensai. Hope that clears it up.
On with the idea:
Kensai recieve 1/4 (level) bonus to damage.
Due to their rigorous training in feats of endurance, they gain the ability to Resist Cold (as per the protection spell) at level 20.
At level 30 they may Resist Fire.
At level 40 they may Resist Gas.
These abilities are useable once per day.
(On the surface, this may seem somewhat imbalanced, but from a practical playing point of view, having no magic eq makes it sort of impossible for them to have any prot eq... or any decent +dam.)
Now, I'm sure at this point you're wondering "how does that deal melee area damage?"
Kensai will master the hitall skill.
Due to their incredible speed, Kensai will recieve a 1% chance per level to ignore lag effects.
This means they hitall a lot.
As the Nermal says, 3nj0y.
Frankly, I don't care what you call the class. it is BASED ON Kensai. Hope that clears it up.
On with the idea:
Kensai recieve 1/4 (level) bonus to damage.
Due to their rigorous training in feats of endurance, they gain the ability to Resist Cold (as per the protection spell) at level 20.
At level 30 they may Resist Fire.
At level 40 they may Resist Gas.
These abilities are useable once per day.
(On the surface, this may seem somewhat imbalanced, but from a practical playing point of view, having no magic eq makes it sort of impossible for them to have any prot eq... or any decent +dam.)
Now, I'm sure at this point you're wondering "how does that deal melee area damage?"
Kensai will master the hitall skill.
Due to their incredible speed, Kensai will recieve a 1% chance per level to ignore lag effects.
This means they hitall a lot.
As the Nermal says, 3nj0y.
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Magruk Eat Elf
- Sojourner
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: USA
Actually Kensai aren't a class but a "KIT" for warriors, they "CAN" wear magical items, they are essentially super melee, they get bonus's with weapons, but just can't wear armor at all, or gauntlets, helms. They can wear shields but incur penalties due to being a "attack" kit.
And oriental sounding, i know the muds idea, not wanting ie. samurai ninja's yadda yadda.. However, Kara Tur is part of toril, and is essentially what we would consider the far east. And if the mud was to strictly adhere to the !oriental, all those katana's and such would need to be renamed.
This isn't intended to be a flame or such, just some observations, although i would like to see maybe some "kits" or "specializations" within classes, like kensai/mageslayers or skalds/jesters, etc. etc.
And oriental sounding, i know the muds idea, not wanting ie. samurai ninja's yadda yadda.. However, Kara Tur is part of toril, and is essentially what we would consider the far east. And if the mud was to strictly adhere to the !oriental, all those katana's and such would need to be renamed.
This isn't intended to be a flame or such, just some observations, although i would like to see maybe some "kits" or "specializations" within classes, like kensai/mageslayers or skalds/jesters, etc. etc.
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kiryan
- Sojourner
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neat idea my first reaction was if your looking for more melee dam that has major eq restrictions and cant hit wraithform mobs put monks back in, but i do think there is room for someone to acquire the area physical dam niche, just not sure we have room or patience for another class. nor do i see monks coming back. personally melee is too crowded as it is... well on the good race side at least (paladin, anti, ranger, rogue, warrior)
I'd suggest psionicists for RP but thats a flame in the making. Perhaps druids could get a cyclone like spell and have its damage changed to physical. Rangers could have it added to archery, but id only support that if single target archery damage was toned back...maybe something like at level 50 they get 10 shots in a round but no more than 2 can hit the same target. Of course you could just adjust hitall to serve this purpose and "fix" another feature thats currently useless. you could say that necros/lich already fill this position as they can bring multiple components of physical dam to a fight...maybe it could be augmented.. ghoulish fury.. cast on target pet ghoul to make it hit every target in the room for 4x dam or something.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-24-2002).]
I'd suggest psionicists for RP but thats a flame in the making. Perhaps druids could get a cyclone like spell and have its damage changed to physical. Rangers could have it added to archery, but id only support that if single target archery damage was toned back...maybe something like at level 50 they get 10 shots in a round but no more than 2 can hit the same target. Of course you could just adjust hitall to serve this purpose and "fix" another feature thats currently useless. you could say that necros/lich already fill this position as they can bring multiple components of physical dam to a fight...maybe it could be augmented.. ghoulish fury.. cast on target pet ghoul to make it hit every target in the room for 4x dam or something.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-24-2002).]
Hmm, guess we aren't ready for another heavy-eq-restricted class? Would an admin care to post on this?
The main reason I decided to post this is that it's different from monks. Frankly, a kensai would stink at fighting a single mob. But with a few tanks, in a group situation, this class would be awesome because it would deal damage to all opposing mobs at once. It would never be able to compete with a ranger or rogue, since it wouldn't get master dual nor 5-6 attacks on the same mob, but it would do respectable area damage.
On the other hand, monks were more about "kill things one at a time, incredibly fast."
The main reason I decided to post this is that it's different from monks. Frankly, a kensai would stink at fighting a single mob. But with a few tanks, in a group situation, this class would be awesome because it would deal damage to all opposing mobs at once. It would never be able to compete with a ranger or rogue, since it wouldn't get master dual nor 5-6 attacks on the same mob, but it would do respectable area damage.
On the other hand, monks were more about "kill things one at a time, incredibly fast."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
<B>Hmm, guess we aren't ready for another heavy-eq-restricted class? Would an admin care to post on this?
The main reason I decided to post this is that it's different from monks. Frankly, a kensai would stink at fighting a single mob. But with a few tanks, in a group situation, this class would be awesome because it would deal damage to all opposing mobs at once. It would never be able to compete with a ranger or rogue, since it wouldn't get master dual nor 5-6 attacks on the same mob, but it would do respectable area damage.
On the other hand, monks were more about "kill things one at a time, incredibly fast."</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
One other thing to consider also, are the people that are going to whine about the "solo-ability" of this class/kit...
You know it's going to happen, even if it was blatantly said: "This is an advanced class/kit, they will last about as long in a solo fight as a one-armed Elven court jester in a gladiator arena"
And who's to say that isn't about right?
I'm not arguing, I'm just offering also the other side of the coin, I believe a class like this might make the MUD lean more towards grouping then soloing for survivability, but then again, that's the way it's heading right now, isn't it?
But, to a much lesser extent, at lower levels, maybe say for a lowbie or newbie with no ultra-spanky eq... Oh wait... They wouldn't HAVE ultra-spanky eq, scratch that part of the thought, but at lower levels, finding groups to actually level in, and where would you go?
If you go with someone too much higher then you, you get no XP, stay the same level.
Someone your level, you get spanked, and stay the same level for a while...
Hrmmm...
Anyhoo...
Just a rambling in my brain, I'm gonna go out for a smoke now, I need one, hehe
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Taegost, The one and ONLY STUPER DRUID(tm)
<B>Hmm, guess we aren't ready for another heavy-eq-restricted class? Would an admin care to post on this?
The main reason I decided to post this is that it's different from monks. Frankly, a kensai would stink at fighting a single mob. But with a few tanks, in a group situation, this class would be awesome because it would deal damage to all opposing mobs at once. It would never be able to compete with a ranger or rogue, since it wouldn't get master dual nor 5-6 attacks on the same mob, but it would do respectable area damage.
On the other hand, monks were more about "kill things one at a time, incredibly fast."</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
One other thing to consider also, are the people that are going to whine about the "solo-ability" of this class/kit...
You know it's going to happen, even if it was blatantly said: "This is an advanced class/kit, they will last about as long in a solo fight as a one-armed Elven court jester in a gladiator arena"
And who's to say that isn't about right?
I'm not arguing, I'm just offering also the other side of the coin, I believe a class like this might make the MUD lean more towards grouping then soloing for survivability, but then again, that's the way it's heading right now, isn't it?
But, to a much lesser extent, at lower levels, maybe say for a lowbie or newbie with no ultra-spanky eq... Oh wait... They wouldn't HAVE ultra-spanky eq, scratch that part of the thought, but at lower levels, finding groups to actually level in, and where would you go?
If you go with someone too much higher then you, you get no XP, stay the same level.
Someone your level, you get spanked, and stay the same level for a while...
Hrmmm...
Anyhoo...
Just a rambling in my brain, I'm gonna go out for a smoke now, I need one, hehe
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Taegost, The one and ONLY STUPER DRUID(tm)
While the idea of an area melee class is interesting, I highly question the need for one since so many classes have area spells and in very few cases will there be multiple magically resistant mobs in one room, those cases being multiple demons or multiple dragons which only occur in a few zones, namely Avernus, Myth Drannor, Tiamat, and to a less degree one fight in Cave City. Interesting idea, but I don't really think they'd have much place on the mud. Oh, and the name 'Weapon master' essentially would be a way to translate Kensai into something more western.
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"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
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"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
Heh I for one do not like this idea at all. In My opinion Area damage is ruining much of the fun as is. Even the 2nd gatehouse in jot is stroll in the park with a couple of invokers and a lich in the group. No make more zones with high MR mobs in. make us warriors at least wear some decent hit/dam eq instead of wearing all HP gear thats available to us. I cannot phantom that nukers enjoy this super area damage all that much neither. To type yer area spell alias over and over cant be all that fun. If u would have to target instead it would at least require a small amount of skill to play a nuking class. Zoning was way more fun before invokers *sniff* oh well the old days are gone im just bored and had to yapp about something.
/Klurg
/Klurg
Zoning was also way more fun when there were 2k fire elementals =)
"what, tank died? feh, summon another, stone and send in."
The way I see the mud going, there are more and more high-MR mobs due to the presence of invokers... I'm just trying to anticipate. Also, I would definitely take one xping. It's not often that you get to xp multiple mobs at a time, but it sure would be fun!
"what, tank died? feh, summon another, stone and send in."
The way I see the mud going, there are more and more high-MR mobs due to the presence of invokers... I'm just trying to anticipate. Also, I would definitely take one xping. It's not often that you get to xp multiple mobs at a time, but it sure would be fun!
>>The way I see the mud going, there are more and more high-MR mobs due to the presence of invokers... I'm just trying to anticipate. Also, I would definitely take one xping. It's not often that you get to xp multiple mobs at a time, but it sure would be fun!<<
Um Mori, I've really got to wonder where you're seeing this. Of the new eq zones that have gone in this wipe (Clouds, Oakvale (kinda), MD, Ribcage, Avernus (again, using the term loosely here), only Avernus and MD have lots of magically resistant mobs and that's because both are filled with demons. Demons are not the most popular mob type and only certain types of mobs, namely dragons, celestials, and demons/devils, have high magic resistance. The small amount that undead have isn't really noticeable. Feedback, the area limiter, and spell knobs are how invokers are checked and balanced, not by stuffing as many dragons, celestials, and demons into a zone unless it fits.
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"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
Um Mori, I've really got to wonder where you're seeing this. Of the new eq zones that have gone in this wipe (Clouds, Oakvale (kinda), MD, Ribcage, Avernus (again, using the term loosely here), only Avernus and MD have lots of magically resistant mobs and that's because both are filled with demons. Demons are not the most popular mob type and only certain types of mobs, namely dragons, celestials, and demons/devils, have high magic resistance. The small amount that undead have isn't really noticeable. Feedback, the area limiter, and spell knobs are how invokers are checked and balanced, not by stuffing as many dragons, celestials, and demons into a zone unless it fits.
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"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
Monks will never come back...the code was taken out for em. =(
I'm all for the idea of another melee class myself...though I sorta wish monks could've been more of a quested-for class than just ganked. Monks were rare on the mainland. I suggested the idea of having 50th lvl human warriors have a VERY LONG, and VERY HARD quest to become a monk...as in, having to do a quest to learn every single skill before ever becoming a monk. Skills that are totally useless until becoming one (no -100 ac bashing warriors with unarmed damage and martial arts!).
But I don't know if my idea went unheard, or whatnot. A couple of imms loved the idea, but I never got any feedback from any of it, so I left Yasden as merely a legend of the Toril era, never to be seen again.
I'd like to bring him back someday...
Deathmagnet
I'm all for the idea of another melee class myself...though I sorta wish monks could've been more of a quested-for class than just ganked. Monks were rare on the mainland. I suggested the idea of having 50th lvl human warriors have a VERY LONG, and VERY HARD quest to become a monk...as in, having to do a quest to learn every single skill before ever becoming a monk. Skills that are totally useless until becoming one (no -100 ac bashing warriors with unarmed damage and martial arts!).
But I don't know if my idea went unheard, or whatnot. A couple of imms loved the idea, but I never got any feedback from any of it, so I left Yasden as merely a legend of the Toril era, never to be seen again.
I'd like to bring him back someday...
Deathmagnet
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
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- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
wouldnt monks in any capacity remort, quest, roller, renamed kensai be bad news for rogues and rangers in particular? or do you seriously think there is room for another melee class especially in the damage niche?
if we were to figure out somehow of balancing melee classes and making it so folks dont feel left out of groups ect, then id love to see new classes. somehow i dont think this can happen. ever played a mud with like 40 classes and races? i have it sucked. 10 kick ass own all combinations, 400 unplayed combos.... of course these were soloist muds so not such a great comparison to sojourn.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-28-2002).]
if we were to figure out somehow of balancing melee classes and making it so folks dont feel left out of groups ect, then id love to see new classes. somehow i dont think this can happen. ever played a mud with like 40 classes and races? i have it sucked. 10 kick ass own all combinations, 400 unplayed combos.... of course these were soloist muds so not such a great comparison to sojourn.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-28-2002).]
"Ribcage liches and clouds dragons don't shrug?"
If the former does, it's not to any significant extent. They've always eaten tons of dooms and other fun spells whenever I've done them. The clouds dragons are frequently quite wimpy (hatchlings and young ones) and you don't have more then one in the room wandering in at a time in most situations. It's much, much more giant heavy then dragon heavy.
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"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
If the former does, it's not to any significant extent. They've always eaten tons of dooms and other fun spells whenever I've done them. The clouds dragons are frequently quite wimpy (hatchlings and young ones) and you don't have more then one in the room wandering in at a time in most situations. It's much, much more giant heavy then dragon heavy.
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"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
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Xisiqomelir
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xisiqomelir:
<B> KenSAI???
KENSHIN!!!!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kenshin is based on the 'sword saint' archetype too, yes. But the real-life basis for this is probably Miamoto Mushashi (sp?)
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Sparks crackle in your ear as Kossuth tells you 'answer for you, possibly, O Spankmagnetic One'
<B> KenSAI???
KENSHIN!!!!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kenshin is based on the 'sword saint' archetype too, yes. But the real-life basis for this is probably Miamoto Mushashi (sp?)
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Sparks crackle in your ear as Kossuth tells you 'answer for you, possibly, O Spankmagnetic One'
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Xisiqomelir
- Sojourner
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
Kenshin is based on the 'sword saint' archetype too, yes. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually I think Nobuhiro Watsuki has confessed that Kenshin is just the composite of what he thought would be cool
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Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
Kenshin is based on the 'sword saint' archetype too, yes. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually I think Nobuhiro Watsuki has confessed that Kenshin is just the composite of what he thought would be cool
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Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
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Guest
NEW melee class?
Seeing how the basic standard of melee classes, the warrior, doesn't EVEN figure into the damage equation when doing any decent zone, (screw hit and dam, gimme hps, protects, saves, and more hps plz) ....
..well, I spose tossing in more and more monkey classes would be 'kewl' but personally, I think wars should be looked into first, just slightly. Why not reduce horrendous hitall lag a tad for one? Its not like im going to overpower the vokers with it, or even use it when i should be rescuing/bashing, but why does it seem to lag me about as much as search? I thought I was pretty good at swinging madly with a sword.
Also, how about a skill which can be used to distract a certain mob...basically by running in and going mad on it physically. Kinda like berserk with hit/dam bonus and ac minus, but it would force the mob to focus spells on that warrior, instead of being able to cast areas. Would rebalance damage against the group onto the tank...which could be good, or could be disastrous. How bout it? Said mobs would also lose the ability to switch or rescue...basically, they wouldnt be able to do anything unless it was directed at the charging warrior. :twisted:
..well, I spose tossing in more and more monkey classes would be 'kewl' but personally, I think wars should be looked into first, just slightly. Why not reduce horrendous hitall lag a tad for one? Its not like im going to overpower the vokers with it, or even use it when i should be rescuing/bashing, but why does it seem to lag me about as much as search? I thought I was pretty good at swinging madly with a sword.
Also, how about a skill which can be used to distract a certain mob...basically by running in and going mad on it physically. Kinda like berserk with hit/dam bonus and ac minus, but it would force the mob to focus spells on that warrior, instead of being able to cast areas. Would rebalance damage against the group onto the tank...which could be good, or could be disastrous. How bout it? Said mobs would also lose the ability to switch or rescue...basically, they wouldnt be able to do anything unless it was directed at the charging warrior. :twisted:
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