No offense, but. . .

Archive of the Sojourn3 Ideas Forum.
Waelos
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Umm

Postby Waelos » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:02 pm

Yaya-

Those same scientists don't also have to prove that the broccoli is green before they start their experiments do they? The Facts I presented are accepted as such by the general community in which we're having this discussion. Astronomers don't have to prove the sun rises in the east and sets in the west to move on to more complicated theories, do they? I really didn't think I had to post logs of 5 people doing jot invasion, crypts, Kost, CC, scorps, etc ad nausium to prove my point. Most players know about these feats, so I omitted the tedious posting of logs, citing examples, etc.

As to the equipment imbalance. It is a fact that the Imms are working on eq balance. Everyone knows that. . . I wouldn't know how to 'support' this any better. Its like someone asking me to 'prove' Colin Powell is trying to show Iraq is hiding weapons. Its common knowledge.
Also, it is a fact that many of the newer zones items are part of this revamp effort.

It is also an indisputable fact that the Airship loads within 20 rooms of Waterdeep and Mithril Hall. How would you like me to support this? A log? Again this is common knowledge. It is also self-evident that when one dies close to a home town, a CR is easier than if you die, say, really far away from a home town. Especially when you have a group where people are more likely to be from one of those hometowns.

Finally, my stating that people over-react has evidence in this very thread.

It is the responsibility of the Fact stater to support his facts when they are not self evident or common knowledge. In this case, the statements I made are common knowledge or simply self evident.

Again, Yayaril the burden of proof falls upon you. Please show me where what I have said is not true ? I figure you're just trying to stir something up, or get me angry as you do at times. If you want to have a debate, I'm up for it. If you just want to make general statements and arguments that do not involve what we're discussing, that is your right. Thanks!

The Lost
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:15 pm

I'll agree that all of the equipment in the game could probably use an overhaul, that's one of the basic reasons for these issues in the first place, I think. I'll stand by my believe that the tanto is just fine statwise when considering effort to get it when held up to comparable equipment though. It's not only more challenging to get, it's also not as spanky as the weapon I compare it to. The answer isn't just to say that new zones are the biggest chunk of the problem. What are zone builder supposed to do, make even harder zones for gear equal to what's already out there and much easier to get? Oh wait, they're doing that, and look at everybody who bitches about those areas.
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Ash

Postby Waelos » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:53 pm

Ash I know you better than this. People aren't complaining about the new zones being too hard. They are complaining that the new hard zones do not have rewards that are congruent with the risk. Airship rewards are on the same level as most BC rewards with alot less risk, yes? This balance issue isn't just with eq. It is with classes. As high powered as PC's are today, most of the 'hard' stuff is easy today. I think that a number of fights would be nearly impossible in today's mud as well. We need to find a balance. That's all I'm saying.


Lost
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:07 pm

Ashiwi wrote:What are zone builder supposed to do, make even harder zones for gear equal to what's already out there and much easier to get? Oh wait, they're doing that, and look at everybody who bitches about those areas.


I never said people complained because the zones were too hard, I said basically what you just said, that the fights are getting harder but the rewards aren't really getting better. The gear can't really get better or we'll have a serious problem with eq inflation.

And I'll buy the "risk" factor when you kindly point out all the gear-poofing risk of GN.
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Postby thanuk » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:09 pm

Ashiwi wrote: What are zone builder supposed to do, make even harder zones for gear equal to what's already out there and much easier to get? Oh wait, they're doing that, and look at everybody who bitches about those areas.


See now your almost starting to come around. Yes, thats what they are supposed to do, make even harder zones. The equipment is supposed to be better than what is already out there, but if we make equipment that is any better than the best stuff we have now, PC's are going to be extremely overpowered. So you have to downgrade the stuff that is easier to get, in order to make the rewards for the newer, harder zones worth the effort it takes to get them.

Where we disagree is on the airship. My opinion is that its nature is of the zones that are easier to do with higher end equipment, while your opinion is that its of the harder zones with underpowered equipment, which is where this whole argument started. Its a pointless argument; every time you point out a weapon easier to get that is better statwise i can just say "downgrade that too!" And every time i say something is too powerful, you can say "but its so hard to get! Look at this item, its so much better and easier to get!" And we have an endless argument with no winner, because both sides are arguing based on opinion. Thats why i suggested we let this thread die earlier, but since you all insist on bumping it constantly, i'm going telling you that you are eventually going to come to this same conclusion.
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Re: The word is "condescension"

Postby Tasan » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:20 pm

rachaz wrote:I happen to think not inputting anything of value and making funny comments now and then is of much greater value than the nonsense you post. The only thing worse than adding to a discussion you have no real knowledge of is what you keep trying to do to dezzex and sarvras. So stop trying to flame people when you are a wealth of misinformation.

Rachaz :(


Another troller who adds nothing. Did you even bother to read my posts? I haven't flamed either of them, nor was I attempting to. We are having a discussion, and I realize you are incapable of such a thing, so I won't bother to read your response.

One more thing, I pointed out a lot of facts(even agreed upon BY Savras), so this "wealth of misinformation" you are referring to?

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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:22 pm

See, we seem to agree in roundabout ways. I don't think it's too hard to get (arguing only for the tanto here, not for the rest), I don't think it's too easy to get, I think it's just right when you consider comparable equipment. There's a huge difference in those ideas. Where we agree is that it would take major tweaking of all the rest of the gear/zones on the mud to get it to where it's supposed to be in the grander scheme of things.
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Postby thanuk » Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:09 pm

Ashiwi wrote:See, we seem to agree in roundabout ways. I don't think it's too hard to get (arguing only for the tanto here, not for the rest), I don't think it's too easy to get, I think it's just right when you consider comparable equipment. There's a huge difference in those ideas. Where we agree is that it would take major tweaking of all the rest of the gear/zones on the mud to get it to where it's supposed to be in the grander scheme of things.


But that is assuming that the equipment you are comparing it to is well balanced, which if we agree that most of the gear needs tweaking, means that the eq you are comparing it to is probably not balanced. So you have no frame of reference(donny), and you have circular reasoning.

All i know is, im glad im not one of the gods who has to do the eq balancing. Im even happier that im not the one who is gonna have to answer for it when we all start bitching that they ruined our toys:)

edit -- When i say you, i dont mean you personally, i mean you as a figure of speech.

You know, the royal we, man.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:17 pm

Thanuk, you're such a wiener.
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Postby thanuk » Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:20 pm

Ashiwi wrote:Thanuk, you're such a wiener.


I know, its horrible. :cry:


8 year olds, dude.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Wed Feb 05, 2003 10:11 pm

thanuk wrote:All i know is, im glad im not one of the gods who has to do the eq balancing. Im even happier that im not the one who is gonna have to answer for it when we all start bitching that they ruined our toys:)

edit -- When i say you, i dont mean you personally, i mean you as a figure of speech.

You know, the royal we, man.


If she has no reference frame, neither do you, so how does that support mass eq downgrades? Also, if you aren't able to be an eq balancing imm, why do you have such faith in said downgrades? That's a bit like saying, someone should kill that man, but I won't, because I don't want to be charged with murder. Either it is something that should be done, or it isn't something that should be done.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Postby Malacar » Wed Feb 05, 2003 10:47 pm

It ever occur to anyone in this thread, that the eq balancing might not be as bad as everyone thinks?

Does anyone disagree that Eldritches are too powerful?

Did you stop to think for a minute that maybe the gods asked for player input on the matter?

I have it on good authority they are taking player input into effect. I also know that there will be some residual side upgrades. From my own estimation, these will be small, but instead of mass downgrading, they might 'sidegrade' and change some things. That to me is the best course of action.

But either way, a bunch of equipment SHOULD be downgraded. A bunch should not. The problem is... If this eq downgrade was done before alpha opened, we wouldnt bat an eyelash. But now that we're used to this stuff, a lot of people are simply going to complain...

From my personal vantage as a warrior, I seriously hope that clerics with more hps than warriors is a thing of the past. Not because I want clerics to be weak. Far from it. I just want some perspective, that I think Waelos has pegged... It's missing right now.

Oh, and one other thing? Heh. Gods also heard player comments about making sure that mobs don't outbalance PCs with the upgrade. I have faith in the gods that are heading this up. I know I usually god bash, but in this case, I got some faith.
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who cares about titles>>>

Postby kanenan » Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:09 am

smeared in runic script, in blood, you read :

how about limiting the number of alts you play.

becasue the more spanky alts you guys have, the more eq and plat is out there. and that means everything gets downgraded because youve got yer 10billionth Eldritch, or what have ye, and so do all yer friends. funny post on the board. somethin about someone knowing someone was farmin gaunts at boot. no wonder theres never eq, and you dont want plat. i've been levelling this guy for a year almost. i played another ranger to 24 and rerolled. those are my characters. im interested to see how many characters peeps actually have. here i am trying my damndest to zone/xp, i swear up and sideways ive only zoned 4 times, died 2x, and in 2weeks i watched 7 "noobs" (they swear) go from lvl 1 to 40+, or are brandishing old roots belts and the like. oh yeah! im sorry. yer not a noob. and you say things that slip out and make me realize im sitting here wasting all my time bein friendly tryin to give back what lili and a few others gave to meh when i started to someone who in 2 weeks will just roll a new char, uber eq it, plvl it, leave me fer dead, and not even say thank you to me for giving you my every last piece of midlvl eq, just so you dont look noobnoob, as a transitory guise befo2re you go to the inn one day invis, and grab yer uber set.
yeah im kinda pissed and let down. apparently my impressive melee damage isnt wanted, because i dont have ten sets of rings i can wear for any type of weather. or its my evergreen breath.. i dunno ivejust mudded for 13 hrs, and gotten 4xp and 40p. my teeth hurt. im a ranger! ( and that gives me every right in the world to be a piss_ant, right? so just read, smirk, lauggh at me, and move along. dont waste time replying to meh. )

i'll come back to yell and thro fits again tomorrow. i promise.

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Postby Corth » Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:15 am

Kan,

Your mistake is assuming that the numer of alts drives up the amount of eq. In actuality, its opposite. The amount of surplus eq drives up the amount of alts. People get some new toys and roll a character to play them with.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:10 pm

Corth wrote:Kan,

Your mistake is assuming that the numer of alts drives up the amount of eq. In actuality, its opposite. The amount of surplus eq drives up the amount of alts. People get some new toys and roll a character to play them with.


No no, remember, they're all primes Corth. Right Glaerc? *stare*
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Postby Daz » Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:16 pm

Hey guys, I have a comment I want to make, and this *is* directed mostly to the big dog players. You know who you are, and I don't want to offend anyone, just point some things out.

I totally agree that the equipment is too powerful for the difficulty involved in getting it. However, I don't feel that weakening the equipment is going to help change things months.

Yes, Eldritches are overpowered, but MANY of the mages I know do not have a pair, or even one. They are powerful, but it is your alts who have most of them, not the everyday player. I still have never won an eldritch ring, and I do TF fairly often.

That was just one example of many items that can be considered overpowered. Ogrehides, Amethyst Ring, Eldritch Ring . . . want to know my criteria for overpowered? When we do a zone, of 15 people it gets 9 or more bids often.

However, if you downgrade eldritches, then there will be less reason for you elite players to go back there. Most of my early equipment came from times when I got invite for my skills, I got a lucky bid, and improved my equipment. Piece by piece, it got better, and eventually I found myself going to zones for trade items or handouts. Still, many times the best items go to players who don't need them, in order to quest, hoard, alt, guild, or sell. Nothing really wrong with this, but that is where this overpowered equipment goes. It is SO powerful, that people can't stand the opportunity to give it up, even if they already have it.

Another issue that faces the problems with equipment is Alts. And the problem with alts can be pointed in ONE direction - experience. Why don't we give experience benefits for grouping, if we are trying to encourage it? You realize how much it sucks if the only enchanter on does not want to XP because going with a full group is a waste of his time? Why don't we turn the XP suffering back on, but reward people for grouping? Sadly, this only matters if there is a pwipe, which won't happen.

As it stands now, people level a character to 50 in a couple of weeks, deck him out with the best equipment, and move on. There was a time when reaching level 50 was an event. Now it is expected.

I can keep on going, but I think a lot can be summarized in a few points.

There should be a reward for grouping, in terms of experience.
Levels should be harder to get than they are now.
Equipment power needs to be reworked in some areas, along with the respective fights.
Melee needs to be balanced with respect to mage damage.
Hit points are out of control, and cleric hp equipment needs to be evaluated.
Less hp/more ac/prots/hr+dr eq (kaln has the right idea)
Allow clerics more melee skills/equipment useage
Haste equipment is due for a return.
Area damage or mage specialization needs some eyeballs.
Warriors could use something to give flavor, and my finger is pointing at weapon specialization based on type, i.e. - 1h sl, 2h bl, etc.


Anything I'm forgetting?
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:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Postby Colje » Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:58 pm

omg, this post is threatning Turxx "the most responses" post!

116 post already! FYI

/Colje :shock:
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Postby Yayaril » Thu Feb 06, 2003 1:04 pm

8)

I don't see how eldritches are too powerful.

I don't see why equipment has to be downgraded at all. It seems to me like you can keep introducing harder zones and add a few hps here, or a bonus to a save there and players won't become 'incredibly powerful' like Thanuk says.

For instance, put a 78hp -3str ring in a new harder zone and voila, you have a good reason to go there. People will even go there repeatedly just to get a pair of these rings. What's the advantages over eldritch rings? With a pair, 6 hps and 12 str. Oh no! That's going to turn any mage into a towering juggernaut! Not!

People seem to be all afraid that as players advance in power, that older weaker zones will become trivial. What's the problem with this? That's how RPG games work. When you play Final Fantasy or the Bards Tale or any number of other RPG games, the challenges of yesterday are trivial as you advance in power. Just keep upping the numbers and making the ansi uglier and it'll keep being fun! Of course, eventually the game will run out of challenges. I think that's why this whole talk of downgrading equipment is arising. The people who are supporting the downgrade of gear the most are those that have run out of nifty items to gets.

I vote: Kill the equipment and mob ceilings and keep going upward!
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Postby Malacar » Thu Feb 06, 2003 1:28 pm

Yaya, it's been explained to you a few times before, but you choose to not listen.

Mobs can only get so powerful. The gods do not want to rewrite the entire mud code to allow PCs to get more levels, or mobs to go higher, etc. It's hard coded, so yes, there IS a cap.

And if you allow your idea for 'only' 6 more hit points and 12 more strength... Where does it stop? It doesn't. And we have a situation like we do now.

Daz: You should be HAPPY that 'elite' groups won't do TF much anymore, and it will go to it's correct pecking order on the mud... Mid-High level groups that need a boost. I'd still do TF just for the exp alone. Besides, it's a fun zone.
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Postby Chandigar2 » Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:15 pm

You have a point Yayaril, but the flip side of your suggestion is that the fight will probably a LOT harder to justify an upgrade to the best mage ring in the game.

Then everyone will bitch about how they have to do fight x thats SO much harder than jabber for just 3 extra hps and str ;) The BC situation all over again... :shock:
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Postby thanuk » Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:12 pm

moritheil wrote:If she has no reference frame, neither do you, so how does that support mass eq downgrades? Also, if you aren't able to be an eq balancing imm, why do you have such faith in said downgrades? That's a bit like saying, someone should kill that man, but I won't, because I don't want to be charged with murder. Either it is something that should be done, or it isn't something that should be done.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


It doesn't support mass eq downgrades, mori. It supports the fact that we are caught in an argument of circular reasoning, which was the whole point.
Also i didnt say i couldn't be an admin, i said i wouldn't want to be, because i wouldn't want to have to deal with shit from all the players when their toys got downgraded. Something should be done, and im glad im not the one who has to do it, because i wouldn't want to hear your shit. I could do it if i was asked to, but you wouldn't be happy with what i did, and neither would anyone else, which is why i will not be asked:)

But i have total faith in the gods here. If there's one thing i have noticed in my time here, is that they are as fair as possible when downgrading equipment. And that means that the "elite" people that you all seem to think are the reasons for the eq problem in the first place, are the ones who tend to get hit the hardest. If those who stand to lose the most are willing to accept and even pull for downgrading eq, why is it that you disagree?
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:41 am

8)

Malacar, I don't know which is more work- rewriting mud code to give mobs the ability to go beyond level 70 or going through all the equipment in the game and trying to find some sort of balance.

Chandigar, people bitched about how they had to do jabber just to get a 20hp upgrade from ring of elemental control. Some people are going to bitch no matter what. I say, let them bitch, and let the rest of us who would be willing to take on a difficult fight to get a 3hp upgrade do it.
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Postby thanuk » Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:46 am

.
Last edited by thanuk on Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Tasan » Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:42 am

Daz wrote:Yes, Eldritches are overpowered, but MANY of the mages I know do not have a pair, or even one. They are powerful, but it is your alts who have most of them, not the everyday player. I still have never won an eldritch ring, and I do TF fairly often.


If you've done it so often, by now you should be able to lead, and *gasp* claim a ring, or at the very least, use handouts. Why is it more experienced players faults that you can't have an item, yet you know where it is and how to get it?

Daz wrote:That was just one example of many items that can be considered overpowered. Ogrehides, Amethyst Ring, Eldritch Ring . . . want to know my criteria for overpowered? When we do a zone, of 15 people it gets 9 or more bids often.


2 of the things you just listed are used in quests, that's one reason many other people may want them. Like I said, if you don't like how things are bid, lead yourself. I know you are capable.

Daz wrote:However, if you downgrade eldritches, then there will be less reason for you elite players to go back there. Most of my early equipment came from times when I got invite for my skills, I got a lucky bid, and improved my equipment. Piece by piece, it got better, and eventually I found myself going to zones for trade items or handouts. Still, many times the best items go to players who don't need them, in order to quest, hoard, alt, guild, or sell. Nothing really wrong with this, but that is where this overpowered equipment goes. It is SO powerful, that people can't stand the opportunity to give it up, even if they already have it.


This is more a pbase problem than what you are talking about. There are a ton of people here that wouldn't help their own mom get an item unless they could take something from the trip that they needed. Kinda sad, but it's the world you live in. Again, this can all be solved if you go lead yourself and use handouts or whatever method you think best to give out eq.

Daz wrote:Another issue that faces the problems with equipment is Alts. And the problem with alts can be pointed in ONE direction - experience. Why don't we give experience benefits for grouping, if we are trying to encourage it? You realize how much it sucks if the only enchanter on does not want to XP because going with a full group is a waste of his time? Why don't we turn the XP suffering back on, but reward people for grouping? Sadly, this only matters if there is a pwipe, which won't happen.


*laugh* You were just talking about how too many people have alts. By making experience easier, you are just going to have that many more people leveling other characters, and equipping them.


Daz wrote:As it stands now, people level a character to 50 in a couple of weeks, deck him out with the best equipment, and move on. There was a time when reaching level 50 was an event. Now it is expected.


[48 Illusionist ] Corth Khonier -Elusive One- Elders of Netheril (Human)
[48 Cleric ] Glorishan -Extortionist- Elders of Netheril (Grey Elf)

Experience is much easier now than when we started, I don't see how 50 isn't a big deal except that zones like DS, Spirit Raven and Smoke have made XP so much easier than previous wipes. I honestly don't think it's all that bad either. Most people agree the game really starts at 41-46. The only problem I see is noobs who are level 46 and word in jot :)

Daz wrote:There should be a reward for grouping, in terms of experience.


I agree only if it is based on the total level of the people involved. A level 1 grouped w/ a level 50 should not be getting all that much more experience.

Daz wrote:Levels should be harder to get than they are now.


Why? The problem is the easier than crap experience zones now.

Daz wrote:Less hp/more ac/prots/hr+dr eq (kaln has the right idea)


Prots across the board are way too easy to get these days. Makes dragons pansies. Really sad.

Not flaming btw, just pointing out my sentiments, and what I've heard from MANY people.

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Postby Daz » Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:16 am

If you've done it so often, by now you should be able to lead, and *gasp* claim a ring, or at the very least, use handouts. Why is it more experienced players faults that you can't have an item, yet you know where it is and how to get it?


I think you might have misunderstood my intent here. I was not bitching about not having the ring. I like doing TF, but I think I bid on that ring less than 15% of the time I am there. I was just using items like this as an example. And I don't think I ever have claimed an item when leading - the fun is in getting the items, not the items themselves. Everyone who comes should have a *chance*


2 of the things you just listed are used in quests, that's one reason many other people may want them. Like I said, if you don't like how things are bid, lead yourself. I know you are capable.


again, i know they are used for quests - i'm still unsure how i feel about sink quests, but at the moment they seem to be a necessary evil.


*laugh* You were just talking about how too many people have alts. By making experience easier, you are just going to have that many more people leveling other characters, and equipping them.


sorry, i was thinking of something, but maybe i didn't say it or i got confused. wouldn't be the first time. hell, i forget now. i'm not as good as you guys at getting my point across :(


[48 Illusionist ] Corth Khonier -Elusive One- Elders of Netheril (Human)
[48 Cleric ] Glorishan -Extortionist- Elders of Netheril (Grey Elf)

Experience is much easier now than when we started, I don't see how 50 isn't a big deal except that zones like DS, Spirit Raven and Smoke have made XP so much easier than previous wipes. I honestly don't think it's all that bad either. Most people agree the game really starts at 41-46. The only problem I see is noobs who are level 46 and word in jot


corth's level is dartan's fault and glorishan's level is an inexplicable mystery hidden from the eyes of all things. or maybe he groups with mori.

i think i'm just gonna shut up, cuz i don't know what i'm thinking about.
Shevarash OOC: 'Muma on Artificial Intelligence - Muma OOC: 'someday the quotes really will just become AI and then i'll talk to the AI and be like, hey you come from me, but it will get angry at me and revolt and try to kill me or something heheheh. like in the movies''
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Postby Malacar » Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:25 pm

Yayaril wrote:8)

Malacar, I don't know which is more work- rewriting mud code to give mobs the ability to go beyond level 70 or going through all the equipment in the game and trying to find some sort of balance.

Chandigar, people bitched about how they had to do jabber just to get a 20hp upgrade from ring of elemental control. Some people are going to bitch no matter what. I say, let them bitch, and let the rest of us who would be willing to take on a difficult fight to get a 3hp upgrade do it.


One can only be done by 1-3 people, probably only 1 at a time.

The other can be done by a host of people, and work can be divided.

You tell me. My guess is balancing eq is a lot less effort based on the number of people the work can be spread over.
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:37 pm

8)

Frankly, only a coder can tell us how difficult it would be to up the cap on mob levels. However, if you do up the cap on mob levels, it opens up even more options for zone creators to make a challenge for the players without resorting to stacking on extra mobs (Resulting in areas becoming very useful, which everyone seems to dread).

We can devise that balancing all the gear in the game right now is going to be a very difficult and time consuming job, involving reviewing all the items and then changing them by hand. So if a coder can just tweak the mob code, then you can save a lot of work and open up a world of new possibilities.
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Postby Malacar » Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:53 pm

I don't have the time to search through the BBS, but if I am not mistaken, a God DID post at some time a response to you when you brought this up before. And I think I recall them saying that it wasn't an option.

Do a search I guess. I might be wrong, but I am pretty certain I have it at least remotely close.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:53 pm

corth's level is dartan's fault and glorishan's level is an inexplicable mystery hidden from the eyes of all things. or maybe he groups with mori.

i think i'm just gonna shut up, cuz i don't know what i'm thinking about.


Corth's level is no ones fault. Exp is gay, so he doesn't do it :P I'm probably just going to exp to 48 and quit. I already hit 50th once, that's enough for me. :P

As for Glorishan.. Well, we all know what his problem is, don't we? To much skill practice. That's right. He still hasn't maxxed his skills out for level 48 :( so when he does, then we'll see him level.
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Postby thanuk » Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:03 pm

Malacar wrote:I don't have the time to search through the BBS, but if I am not mistaken, a God DID post at some time a response to you when you brought this up before. And I think I recall them saying that it wasn't an option.

Do a search I guess. I might be wrong, but I am pretty certain I have it at least remotely close.


Savras wrote:One problem which might not be considered in this thread. The reason for eq caps is that without them, PCs start to seriously overpower mobs. Mobs are limited to lvl 59, so really the way to make zones 'harder' is just to keep putting in more and more mobs, until you get to the Tia type fight where its basically just attrition.

Please also remember the number of posts and gripes about Tia back when she was still in the game? About how the fight was just mindless running, killing and dying?

I mean... this game is 'loosely' based on AD&D right? At least the monster manual general info. Dragons are ultra rare and extremely territorial, so how long before the 4, 6, 8 dragon-in-the-same-room fights become ridiculous/outlandish?

Anyway, point is: Mobs have a cap too, therefore zones can't really just keep getting harder and harder without it reverting to an attrition fight. (they can try though)

Oh, and I'm pro-downgrade, but no one listens to me anyway
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Postby Chandigar2 » Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:18 pm

Yayaril wrote:8)

Frankly, only a coder can tell us how difficult it would be to up the cap on mob levels. However, if you do up the cap on mob levels, it opens up even more options for zone creators to make a challenge for the players without resorting to stacking on extra mobs (Resulting in areas becoming very useful, which everyone seems to dread).

We can devise that balancing all the gear in the game right now is going to be a very difficult and time consuming job, involving reviewing all the items and then changing them by hand. So if a coder can just tweak the mob code, then you can save a lot of work and open up a world of new possibilities.


Yea, but I think the goal is to balance stuff, not just downgrade. If you increase the max levels of everything, then all the old unbalanced eq still exists. (unbalanced being difficulty vs. stats). From what I've been told, they're trying to set it up so that a fight in an old zone of x difficulty will yield the same value eq as a fight in a new zone with x difficulty. Right now its just not balanced.
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Re: Umm

Postby Chandigar2 » Fri Feb 07, 2003 8:01 pm

Waelos wrote:Are magebane weapons that uber? That is debatable. In my honest opinion I would say that any weapon that bears the name "Magebane" SHOULD be uber. Anyone else remember the 'True' magebane? Yeah, UM2. Roar. This is my opinion of course, but any weapon with the name 'of the magebane elite' should really be elite and a bane to mages. The quest difficulty does not merrit the stats of such a weapon in my opinion. I think they should be cool, bot not 'elite'.


Actually, if you read the desc, it talks about a group/guild of warriors known as the Magebane and their elite warriors used those weapons heh heh

btw, this thread is a good read ;) *thumbs up!*
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Postby goroz » Sat Feb 08, 2003 11:47 am

Daz wrote:Melee needs to be balanced with respect to mage damage.
Area damage or mage specialization needs some eyeballs.
Warriors could use something to give flavor, and my finger is pointing at weapon specialization based on type, i.e. - 1h sl, 2h bl, etc.


Feh silly warriors always thinkin they should be on top *swat* mage spells are supposed to be stronger than the traditional weapons be it sword axe hammer whatever..if you read anything fantasy orientated mages or gods make the magic items you so love to use. so does your sword need a downgrade because its magic bet youd say no..does elminster need a downgrade because hes a powerful mage yup sure does lets make him lvl 1 and let drizzt pounce on him cuz melee should do all the main damage. while were at it maybe put magic missile in 9th circle and ice storm in 10th. on a much better note i do however agree with you on the weapon specialization that sounds like a pretty good idea imho.
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Postby Daz » Sat Feb 08, 2003 12:26 pm

i have been an enchanter full time for several months now. i realized warriors sucked a long time ago and put daz in the pond.
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