Buying medals...

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Iaiken Toransier
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Buying medals...

Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:22 pm

As expected, the four countries leading the medal standings are those with heavily funded (or militaristic styled) olympic programs.

As of 8:00 am, august 20th 2004
Ranking, Country, G, S, B, total
1, United States, 15, 11, 10, 36
2, China, 15, 9, 8, 32
3, Russia, 4, 8, 10, 22
4, Australia, 7, 5, 8, 20

People cannot go so far as to cry that these nations have larger talent pools to draw upon, india has a population of 1 billion people and they will likely leave athens with that one silver. Australia has 1/80th their population, so what is the defining factor of olympic success?

The irony of 'amature sport".

The single reason that I don't enjoy watching The Olympics is that there is almost no such thing as an amature olympic medalist. The athletes comming from China, Europe, Russia, the US and other well developed nations are strict professionals. Each is has access to wonderful facilities, coaching experts and constant international competition...all expenses paid.

The few, the proud.

When I see athletes from nations like Bulgaria, South Africa, The Ukraine and many other nations that have a privately funded olympic program win medals, I am more proud of them than I am when I see a chinese diver who has been trained since the age of 5. One forged their own olympic dream, often working full time just to finance thier training, the other selected from athletics farms by process of elimination.

When it's over.

The next thing that defines Olympic success is what awaits a medal winner when they return home. Between sponsorships and extremely well paid coaching positions there is only glory and money. In countries like India, Brazil and many others, these post-success opporunities do not exist and so there is little desire to compete at this level. Most are too concerned with having a stable and happy future instead of trying to play the olympic lottery.

Those who didn't make it.

In those countries with heavily funded olympics programs, close still gets you a cigar. Univesity scolarships and college degrees, they are given a free ride (maybe not as far as athens), but they are better off than those many who could never even afford an education. For those with the skill and the will, there is a future through sport.

The pride of a nation
For all of you who bandwagon around athletes like Michael Phelps and Ian Thorpe, just remember the people in your countries that never even get to learn how to swim as a child. And while Marion Jones is still bitching about how she got cheated out of the olympics, she's already been lavished with more during her running career than a peer from most any other nation ever will in thier lifetime.

...Amatures.
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Postby rylan » Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:54 pm

Sorry, many of the athletes even from the US do not train 'all expenses paid'. It takes exposure as a champion to land endorsements for advertising contracts that pay for everything. Only a few athletes at the top make the money.

Do some research and see how many parents and athletes struggle to meet the high costs of trainers For example Mohini Bhardwaj on the gymnastics team was delivering pizzas and selling raffle tickets to scrape the cash up to pay for her apartment and training. She wouldn't have had the money to pay for the plane ticket until Pamela Anderson wrote her a check for 20K for the olympics.

Russia's olympics program is in shambles, and has been being neglected due to the countries economic problems. The government doesn't have the money to fund the programs like they did, the buildings for training are literally falling apart, the trainers are paid very little, and yet the athletes still are competitive.

The only place where is a fully govt funded enterprise now is China, and if they don't make the cut by the time they're hitting teenage years, its off to the sweatshops.

I don't know why you sound so bitter. The vast majority of the athletes work their asses off and sacrifice a lot.
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:02 pm

rylan wrote:Sorry, many of the athletes even from the US do not train 'all expenses paid'. It takes exposure as a champion to land endorsements for advertising contracts that pay for everything. Only a few athletes at the top make the money.
In well established sports like track, soccer, swimming and so forth, there are many Universities that offer full scholarships in both the US and Canada. Access to world-class coaching and facilities, you just had to claw your way through the door. ;)

rylan wrote:Do some research and see how many parents and athletes struggle to meet the high costs of trainers For example Mohini Bhardwaj on the gymnastics team was delivering pizzas and selling raffle tickets to scrape the cash up to pay for her apartment and training. She wouldn't have had the money to pay for the plane ticket until Pamela Anderson wrote her a check for 20K for the olympics.

Gymnastics and figure skating are possibly the most competative sports to get into and I will definitely not argue thier commitment as gymnasts go through more training and practice than almost any other olympic athlete. The costs are almost rediculous, but coaches in gymnastics make a fortune, I know one who makes almost 200k/year and she only ever competed a the worlds.

rylan wrote:Russia's olympics program is in shambles, and has been being neglected due to the countries economic problems. The government doesn't have the money to fund the programs like they did, the buildings for training are literally falling apart, the trainers are paid very little, and yet the athletes still are competitive.

This is because of the level of skill that the professionals from the former soviet union posses to pass on to the next generation of athletes in what are now seen as traditionally "russian dominated events"

rylan wrote:The only place where is a fully govt funded enterprise now is China, and if they don't make the cut by the time they're hitting teenage years, its off to the sweatshops.

And it shouldn't be like that... a rigid and unforgiving training regime... how is that sport?

rylan wrote:I don't know why you sound so bitter. The vast majority of the athletes work their asses off and sacrifice a lot.

Risk vs reward...

How much pressure are some of those 13 y/o gymnasts under from thier parents?
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Postby Grizz » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:08 pm

So do you think we should have a 3rd World only Olympics?
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Postby Duna » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:19 pm

Hrmm... no one has even mentioned Romania. I don't remember which channel it was on or when, but one of the NBC channels showed their trainning facilities.. those girls don't even get to live with their families while they train. They live in a dormatory training facility. The coach has an apartment off the side of the main dormatory.

I will say though, that I've seen a few comercials, before the olympics started that some of the big advertisers were sponsoring some of the smaller countries this year.
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heh, Ev.

Postby muma » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:29 pm

So what's your point? You're saying that the richer countries take home more medals. Ok, that's obvious. What makes it wrong? So they have better training and therefore better athletes. These 3rd world countries suffer by their own means.

I am not a socialist like you, Evan. I believe in survival of the fittest. It only makes the most sense after all.
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:59 pm

Kirsty Coventry, Zimbabwe, silver medal in the 100m backstroke, Sydney, 2000.

Abebe Bikili, Ethiopa, gold medal in the marathon with a new world record time, Rome, 1960, and he did it BAREFOOT.

Chioma Ajumwa, Nigeria, gold medal in the long jump, Atlanta, 1996 (she was a police officer at the time).

Omagboluwaje Majemite, Nigeria, silver medal in Judo, Barcelona, 1992.

How about just a few numbers from Sydney, 2000...

Ethiopia - 4 gold, 1 silver, 3 bronze
Kazakhstan - 3 gold, 4 silver
Kenya - 2 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze
Jamaica - 4 silver, 3 bronze
Estonia - 1 gold, 2 bronze
Nigeria - 3 silver
Slovenia - 2 gold
Croatia - 1 gold, 1 bronze
Cameroon - 1 gold

That's just a few of them. About eighty different countries walked away from the 2000 Summer Olympics with at least one bronze medal, if not more.
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Re: heh, Ev.

Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:11 pm

muma wrote:I am not a socialist like you, Evan. I believe in survival of the fittest. It only makes the most sense after all.


First off, I'm a democrat, but there is nothing wrong with being a socialist...

Second, I am definitly an advocate for the reinstitution of natural selection...

Thanks for coming out. :P
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Postby Vigis » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:55 pm

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5747929/

Those bastard Americans! They get $25000 for a gold! Wonder what the $25000 that Iraq's government is giving to medal winners is worth or the $24000 that Thailand awarded their medal winner. If I actually thought it would matter, I would do some research and find out the cost of living in those other countries. . . Alas, I just don't care enough about the whine to look further into it. Perhaps there is somebody out there who is more annoyed with some of the thoughts in here who would find it fun to see just how much money these poor noble 3rd world countries are giving to their athletes when economic factors are considered. . :twisted:
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Postby rylan » Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:56 pm

Yeah the Romanian athletes have it rough also with the training conditions... and its part of the national pride that they are among the best in gymnastics even with little funding.

I heard that some of the other 3rd world countries do give money for winning medals, and while its not much in US dollars it ends up being like 6 months income for them.

Oh and don't get me going on political issues like socialism... it fails because nobody will pay into the system. Why work when you can take it all from the government or the rich.
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Postby Treladian » Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:10 am

Why do I have a feeling that if we were living about two thousand years earlier, we'd be hearing Iaiken complaining that it's not right that the athletes from Megara can't train the way that the Spartans can for the run in full hoplite armor or the pankration combat events . . .

The Olympics have never been about equality. It's always been filled with glory and prestige, both for the athlete and the area that produced them. Just as the winning athlete can silently convey that they're better than the loser, the winning city-states could do the same each other.

It wasn't really a 100% amateur event back then either. There were LOTS of games like the Olympics. It wasn't uncommon for an athlete to do a circuit involving the Olympic games, the Pan-Athenic games, the Delphic games, and many others during their career.

And yes, they got phat lewt for winning back then too. They weren't always in the form of cash, but getting free meals and theatre seats for life isn't exactly a small deal.

Other can argue with you citing more modern games, but IMO it doesn't really matter. The games have been like this since ancient times and you might as well be freaking out that the sun is pretty damn bright.
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Postby Ambar » Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:17 am

If it was a money issue wouldnt more *rich kids* have gotten in?

OMG .. Paris Hilton = the next Mary Lou too!


*Daddy I want a gold medal today* *Yes Veruca dear ... * (Charlie and the Chocolatae Facrory Reference)

Let the kids be PROUD of themselves and our countries be proud of them .. why do people always look to the negative about EVERYTHING? :(

They busted their ASSES to get their medals
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Postby Clan Blindhammer » Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:24 pm

goddd who cares - we're all just sitting on our asses and truly know nothing about the 'Olympic World'.


Until mudding becomes an olympic sport, lets just all get back to whining about rangers and such.
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Postby Elisten » Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:09 pm

Clan Blindhammer wrote:goddd who cares - we're all just sitting on our asses and truly know nothing about the 'Olympic World'.


Until mudding becomes an olympic sport, lets just all get back to whining about rangers and such.


Oh. Go home to yer Clan.. you big.. ole... smelly... poopoo platter!!

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Postby Sarell » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:07 am

In mudding at the olympics what do you get points for? Would like mori be the ultimate athlete or is it more a dalar type event?

But on topic, while Australia places a stupidly massive emphasis on sport, track/field type athletes don't really seem to get much pay unless they are one of the few in the advertising world. A girl from my school who has trained solidly for years was still selling stuffed toys and chocolates at school trying to raise funds for the ticket to the olympics heh. While there are some exceptions, they really don't seem to get paid that much from what I see, some of them work pretty hard. I can't say I even really know what / if our government offers as a gold medal bonus plan or whatever, few years back it was a gold car YUK :(
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Postby kwirl » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:40 am

Why don't we see people from india winning olympic medals?

1 - they are busy working full time jobs confusing american consumer support phone lines

2 - between that and breeding faster than they can harvest rice there is no time for training. if you make breeding beyond the means to support an olympic event, they would likely start winning medals.
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Postby Cordan » Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:36 pm

I don't care what the countries do for their atheletes, they can't make an athelete, no matter how great their training facilities are, or how much money they pay their atheletes after winning gold, or whatever. Sure, they can make it a bit easier on the atheletes. But good facilities or not, it all comes down to the atheletes determination and hard work in the end.

Also, you have to think, maybe the population of India on average doesn't give a damn about the olympics? As hyped up as the US and these other countries are about sports and atheletes and all that, it's no surprise they spend so much time, energy, and money to win gold.
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:30 pm

Cordan wrote:Also, you have to think, maybe the population of India on average doesn't give a damn about the olympics? As hyped up as the US and these other countries are about sports and atheletes and all that, it's no surprise they spend so much time, energy, and money to win gold.


Have you ever seen cricket or soccer in india? They're practically religions...

Cricket needs to be an olympic sport, 1/6 of the worlds population enjoy cricket regularly... a similar number to soccers fanbase.
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Re: heh, Ev.

Postby Sesexe » Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:11 pm

muma wrote:So what's your point? You're saying that the richer countries take home more medals. Ok, that's obvious. What makes it wrong? So they have better training and therefore better athletes. These 3rd world countries suffer by their own means.

I am not a socialist like you, Evan. I believe in survival of the fittest. It only makes the most sense after all.


Survival of the fittest? You mean like the winners should eat the loosers in each competition? Cook em up in a pot? Nummy nummy olympian looser stew? ;)
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why why why

Postby muma » Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:40 pm

Iaiken Toransier wrote:
Cordan wrote:Also, you have to think, maybe the population of India on average doesn't give a damn about the olympics? As hyped up as the US and these other countries are about sports and atheletes and all that, it's no surprise they spend so much time, energy, and money to win gold.


Have you ever seen cricket or soccer in india? They're practically religions...

Cricket needs to be an olympic sport, 1/6 of the worlds population enjoy cricket regularly... a similar number to soccers fanbase.


Why do you care so much about india?

Also, LOL Sesexe.
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Re: why why why

Postby Iaiken Toransier » Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:52 pm

muma wrote:Why do you care so much about india?

It was just an example... seeing it was that or the other most populous nation, china and the chinese are 2nd in the medals...

India, Pakistan, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand, England and many other nations love playing/watching cricket... so why isn't it an olympic sport...

Beats the hell out of practically every "judged" sport at the olympics. Personally I believe that they are more political, another thing that should have no place in olympic sport, than they are fair and impartial.
Last edited by Iaiken Toransier on Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: why why why

Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:55 pm

Iaiken Toransier wrote:It was just an example... seeing it was that or the other most populous nation, china and the chinese are 2nd in the medals...


Last I heard Russia is 2nd now, China moved to third.
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Postby moritheil » Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:48 pm

A world event? Political? Surely not!

Why, that would . . . that would be like suggesting the Nobel Prizes have politics involved!
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Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:24 am

LOOK AT ME I WANT ATTENTION TOO
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Postby Sarell » Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:10 am

hehe, if they made cricket an olympic sport they might have to extend the olympics to a 3 month event tho :( *ducks*
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Re: heh, Ev.

Postby Hyldryn » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:39 pm

Iaiken Toransier wrote:
muma wrote:I am not a socialist like you, Evan. I believe in survival of the fittest. It only makes the most sense after all.


First off, I'm a democrat, but there is nothing wrong with being a socialist...

Second, I am definitly an advocate for the reinstitution of natural selection...

Thanks for coming out. :P


In that case, never have kids. Both of you.
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Postby Ensis » Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:45 am

Still no feeling in your nuts.
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Postby Mitharx » Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:09 am

Rylan suggested not getting him started because he knows that if he started ranting I'd have to put him back in his place.

Love ya Rylan. See you on acc:)
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Postby rylan » Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:00 pm

Lol you wanker :P

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