So, how do you remember Miax now?
So, how do you remember Miax now?
First option for the win.
The only difference between Miax and Cherzra is that Miax completely took this whole "i'm gonna give out as much info as i can" crap to the next level. IMO, Miax is using this time of year as a stupid 1 year anniversary excuse to try to decimate TorilMUD. Had he done this a year ago, I think his legacy would have been seen as a loser's attempt (he was going to put up a competing MUD but didn't have enough interest) to get back at the winners, the current forgers. A year later, posting the code/areas would seem like a "legacy" to some, but not to me.
The only difference between Miax and Cherzra is that Miax completely took this whole "i'm gonna give out as much info as i can" crap to the next level. IMO, Miax is using this time of year as a stupid 1 year anniversary excuse to try to decimate TorilMUD. Had he done this a year ago, I think his legacy would have been seen as a loser's attempt (he was going to put up a competing MUD but didn't have enough interest) to get back at the winners, the current forgers. A year later, posting the code/areas would seem like a "legacy" to some, but not to me.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Honestly I was beginning to think he was not mentally stable. Constantly shutting the mud down and reopening it, then wanting to "close it" but keep his own separate copy open? Just seemed like he wanted to attention of running the mud, but didn't want to actually run one or something.
I dunno though, nothing against the guy and all. Plus I could just be wildly misinterpreting his actions considering I know nothing about his situation... heh.
I dunno though, nothing against the guy and all. Plus I could just be wildly misinterpreting his actions considering I know nothing about his situation... heh.
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.
I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
Vahok wrote:I wanted the option don't really care but this is gonna be one sweet ass thread! :)
*sits by the campfire and toasts some hotdogs on the flames*
i dunno vahok, it seems i haven't been able to make huge threads anymore :(
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
I sort of agree with the "don't have an opinion" option.
On the one hand, we're all people, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Even the best and worst of men all put their pants on one leg at a time, as it were.
On the other hand, I do have to respect the fact that someone was able to create something which has had a lasting legacy and which can probably be inferred as the origin of MMORPGs. (Yes, that's something of an agrandizement, but even if EQ isn't the source of all future MMORPGs, it was still the first REALLY popular one, and popularity has a way of handing it's genes down...)
No, I don't think Kris was the only person ever working on the mud, indeed, all the creators and players deserve credit, since we all shape the mud through our ideas and suggestions if not our actual contributed code and zones.
Finally, and I think this is most important, is that we're working in a text based world. There are emotes and winks which we can use to try to convey meaning, but it's simply not the same as knowing someone in real life. There's also the anonymity of working behind a keyboard that allows you to say things you wouldn't think of saying in real life if a person could remember your face when you said it and think "oh, he's an ass". In a sense, all we know of each other is the things that happen inside our brain, but that doesn't really equate to the person, per se.
Anyways, that was a really long winded null op, but when it comes down to it, I don't find myself with an opinion on the subject specifically at hand.
On the one hand, we're all people, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Even the best and worst of men all put their pants on one leg at a time, as it were.
On the other hand, I do have to respect the fact that someone was able to create something which has had a lasting legacy and which can probably be inferred as the origin of MMORPGs. (Yes, that's something of an agrandizement, but even if EQ isn't the source of all future MMORPGs, it was still the first REALLY popular one, and popularity has a way of handing it's genes down...)
No, I don't think Kris was the only person ever working on the mud, indeed, all the creators and players deserve credit, since we all shape the mud through our ideas and suggestions if not our actual contributed code and zones.
Finally, and I think this is most important, is that we're working in a text based world. There are emotes and winks which we can use to try to convey meaning, but it's simply not the same as knowing someone in real life. There's also the anonymity of working behind a keyboard that allows you to say things you wouldn't think of saying in real life if a person could remember your face when you said it and think "oh, he's an ass". In a sense, all we know of each other is the things that happen inside our brain, but that doesn't really equate to the person, per se.
Anyways, that was a really long winded null op, but when it comes down to it, I don't find myself with an opinion on the subject specifically at hand.
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- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
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- Contact:
Re: So, how do you remember Miax now?
Cherzra is awesome, therefore "American version of Cherzra" = awesome American.
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
Gura: ..btw, being a dick is my god given right as an evil.
Gura: ..btw, being a dick is my god given right as an evil.
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- Sojourner
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Its negative but I agree with Mplor to an extent. Kris and Mystra are legends in the mudding world for all the immature and silly things they've done. Good or bad its part of Sojourn history.
How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.
Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'
Corth ASSOC:: 'up to you.. need a ranger, but if you want to afk i can probably find someone else'
Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'
Corth ASSOC:: 'up to you.. need a ranger, but if you want to afk i can probably find someone else'
kwirl wrote:compare miax to bush or kerry and use some random links to prove it, watch post counts fly
Definately Kerry. Every year or so he changes his mind about running the MUD, definately a flip-flopper. ;)
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.
I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
I played Sojourn though the peak time back when Miax (then Lloth) and Mystra ruled the mud with an IRON fist. Back when some of our loved forgers were just meer mortals like the rest of us. Kris does have the right to do this. I don't know anything about the Chezra {sp} thing but regardless he does have the right. HOWEVER!
I do find it in EXTREMLY POOR taste to do this (IMHO). But having met Kris and Eilean in RL I sadly have to say this is par-for-the-course when it comes to BOTH of them. Again MY OPINION.
Yes it will hurt the mud as a whole BUT ONLY if people allow it. Things will be "unveiled" to some extent. SO WHAT...it's like a show on TV you don't like...don't watch it....you don't want the code out there....DON'T look at it then. That way things are still "mysterious" for you. You (as fellow players) can make this a SHOW STOPPER or you can make it a little speed bump that nobody really cares about and will be forgotten almost as fast as it appears.
Again...my opinions...
I do find it in EXTREMLY POOR taste to do this (IMHO). But having met Kris and Eilean in RL I sadly have to say this is par-for-the-course when it comes to BOTH of them. Again MY OPINION.
Yes it will hurt the mud as a whole BUT ONLY if people allow it. Things will be "unveiled" to some extent. SO WHAT...it's like a show on TV you don't like...don't watch it....you don't want the code out there....DON'T look at it then. That way things are still "mysterious" for you. You (as fellow players) can make this a SHOW STOPPER or you can make it a little speed bump that nobody really cares about and will be forgotten almost as fast as it appears.
Again...my opinions...
Uggrax - Troll Mauler / Eater of Many Things
Kelathor - Druid of Silvannus
---
Jnar - Barbarian Conjurer [Order of the Wyrm (1st Edition)]
Kelathor - Druid of Silvannus
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Jnar - Barbarian Conjurer [Order of the Wyrm (1st Edition)]
Lets not turn this into a flame Miax thing. If it devolves into that, I'll get out my editing shears. We all have a right to our opinion, but if yours is inflamitory, keep it to yourself or censor your words before you post them.
Thanks
Thanks
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD
Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]
Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]
Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
I don't mean to flame, I main thing I wanted to point out was that we (Toril's current populace) can make this a NON-ISSUE if we so choose. You dont' like the code being out there...don't look at it...simple as that.
Uggrax - Troll Mauler / Eater of Many Things
Kelathor - Druid of Silvannus
---
Jnar - Barbarian Conjurer [Order of the Wyrm (1st Edition)]
Kelathor - Druid of Silvannus
---
Jnar - Barbarian Conjurer [Order of the Wyrm (1st Edition)]
I wasn't responding to you, personally :) If I was, I would have quoted you on your last post. The whole thread in general and everyone who reads this or posts should know that we don't want Miax flamed, thats all.
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD
Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]
Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]
Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
Wulv wrote:I don't mean to flame, I main thing I wanted to point out was that we (Toril's current populace) can make this a NON-ISSUE if we so choose. You dont' like the code being out there...don't look at it...simple as that.
This isn't going to happen. I know at least two people (invokers) will absorb all this knowledge then distribute it to the whole MUD like they always do. There's no such thing as secrets on this MUD.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Well...again I think it's strictly up to the person to deciede.. Are these two invokers your talking about going to put you in a full-nelson headlock and FORCE you to absorb what they learn from the code when they finally get ahold of it. I doubt that seriously.
Just choose not to, if they tell you stuff about equiment stats...is that seriously going to ruin the game for you?
But each to their own,
Just choose not to, if they tell you stuff about equiment stats...is that seriously going to ruin the game for you?
But each to their own,
Uggrax - Troll Mauler / Eater of Many Things
Kelathor - Druid of Silvannus
---
Jnar - Barbarian Conjurer [Order of the Wyrm (1st Edition)]
Kelathor - Druid of Silvannus
---
Jnar - Barbarian Conjurer [Order of the Wyrm (1st Edition)]
I don't care.
If he was going to release something, should do what Corth said, release Toril1 code when there were sorcs/conjs/monks/berserkers/mercenaries.
Who gives a crap about Soj3? Old EQ stats aren't enough for me to give up all the new code fixes that have gone in.
If he was going to release something, should do what Corth said, release Toril1 code when there were sorcs/conjs/monks/berserkers/mercenaries.
Who gives a crap about Soj3? Old EQ stats aren't enough for me to give up all the new code fixes that have gone in.
Asup group-says 'who needs sex ed when you got sesexe.'
Targsk group-says 'sexedse'
mount dragon
You climb on and ride Tocx'enth'orix, the elder black dragon.
You have learned something new about mount!
Targsk group-says 'sexedse'
mount dragon
You climb on and ride Tocx'enth'orix, the elder black dragon.
You have learned something new about mount!
Heh, I'll enjoy seeing people try to muddle through the code. Unless the code files for S3 were cleaned up dramatically from what was there during the Sojourn1/Toril years, I doubt anyone but an experience coder can do much with them anyways, or even for that matter figure out wtf is what. Think bowl of spaghetti.
Ghimok|Dlur|Emeslan|Ili|Zinse|Teniv
*~~~~~~~~~~*
"Censorship is telling a man he can't eat a steak just because a baby can't chew it." - Mark Twain
*~~~~~~~~~~*
"Censorship is telling a man he can't eat a steak just because a baby can't chew it." - Mark Twain
Wulv, the problem Dalar's addressing with quest information is a lot more complex than just that. Making quests so easy to do that the information is just handed out to everybody on the mud who asks for it is a bad thing. What happens when everybody has every top end piece of equipment? What happens when the majority of challenge is removed? Quests are supposed to be difficult, to take time to finish, in order to be a challenge to the player and help to keep them interested. Rampant sharing of quest information removes a great deal of the challenge that quests offer.
Eventually you have people who have downloaded all the quest files farming the zones for the tradeable equipment, and all those people who want the challenge and who are willing to do the work are at a pretty heavy disadvantage to all the cheating. So there you go, several big aspects which undermine the long-term playability of the game.
Eventually you have people who have downloaded all the quest files farming the zones for the tradeable equipment, and all those people who want the challenge and who are willing to do the work are at a pretty heavy disadvantage to all the cheating. So there you go, several big aspects which undermine the long-term playability of the game.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'
Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'
Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'
Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'
Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
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- Sojourner
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Somewhere between yesterday and tomorrow
It seems to me that the quest problem has been already addressed (as mentioned in the other thread)
Personally though I think that releasing Toril1 code instead of Sojourn3 would still be a far better idea.
I am not opposed to releasing the thing with just my areas alone to be honest, and perhaps Cythons and a few others. I wont strip the code base to hell and back, but I will cut-down the number of areas and almost all quests.
Kris
Personally though I think that releasing Toril1 code instead of Sojourn3 would still be a far better idea.
Wulv wrote:Well...again I think it's strictly up to the person to deciede.. Are these two invokers your talking about going to put you in a full-nelson headlock and FORCE you to absorb what they learn from the code when they finally get ahold of it. I doubt that seriously.
Just choose not to, if they tell you stuff about equiment stats...is that seriously going to ruin the game for you?
But each to their own,
Wulv. It's a full code/area release, depending on what the forgers can get withheld. I could care less about most areas, but the code is more important.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Dlur wrote:Heh, I'll enjoy seeing people try to muddle through the code. Unless the code files for S3 were cleaned up dramatically from what was there during the Sojourn1/Toril years, I doubt anyone but an experience coder can do much with them anyways, or even for that matter figure out wtf is what. Think bowl of spaghetti.
unless the gods of that era don't put any comments, i doubt it. C code is easy to read imho.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
After sleeping the night on this I can see alot of your points about how this could be bad for Toril in just about any form. I was looking at it strictly on a item stat / mob resistance sort of way. Not as a whole thinking of people actually chewing up the code itself.
My appologies 8)
Live Long and Prosper (long as there is plenty of beer to go around)
My appologies 8)
Live Long and Prosper (long as there is plenty of beer to go around)
Uggrax - Troll Mauler / Eater of Many Things
Kelathor - Druid of Silvannus
---
Jnar - Barbarian Conjurer [Order of the Wyrm (1st Edition)]
Kelathor - Druid of Silvannus
---
Jnar - Barbarian Conjurer [Order of the Wyrm (1st Edition)]
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