So, how do you remember Miax now?

Archived discussion from Toril-2.

What do you think of Miax?

American version of Cherzra (Negative)
23
48%
Honest in his e-mail to Cyric (Positive)
9
19%
I don't care (Neutral)
16
33%
 
Total votes: 48
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So, how do you remember Miax now?

Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:42 am

First option for the win.

The only difference between Miax and Cherzra is that Miax completely took this whole "i'm gonna give out as much info as i can" crap to the next level. IMO, Miax is using this time of year as a stupid 1 year anniversary excuse to try to decimate TorilMUD. Had he done this a year ago, I think his legacy would have been seen as a loser's attempt (he was going to put up a competing MUD but didn't have enough interest) to get back at the winners, the current forgers. A year later, posting the code/areas would seem like a "legacy" to some, but not to me.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Yarash » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:07 am

Whatever his intent is, I believe it is a poor decision which will not reflect well upon him.

Such actions should not be taken while the game is still running and played.

- Mike
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Postby kiryan » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:50 am

I really didnt have anything against Kris before this, I hadn't villified anyone, but I can see some more of the the wisdom in Cyric/Shev's choice now.
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:16 am

Honestly I was beginning to think he was not mentally stable. Constantly shutting the mud down and reopening it, then wanting to "close it" but keep his own separate copy open? Just seemed like he wanted to attention of running the mud, but didn't want to actually run one or something.

I dunno though, nothing against the guy and all. Plus I could just be wildly misinterpreting his actions considering I know nothing about his situation... heh.
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Postby Mplor » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:36 am

Well, this is a shame. However, I still believe that Toril/Sojourn wouldn't have thrived in its heyday without Kris and to some extent Mystra. For that alone Kris has earned a whole lot of leeway with me, at least.
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Postby Corth » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:00 am

I agree with Mplor. Even if Kris did tear me a new a-hole prior to shevco taking over :)
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Postby Vahok » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:02 am

I wanted the option don't really care but this is gonna be one sweet ass thread! :)

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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:28 am

Vahok wrote:I wanted the option don't really care but this is gonna be one sweet ass thread! :)

*sits by the campfire and toasts some hotdogs on the flames*


i dunno vahok, it seems i haven't been able to make huge threads anymore :(
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby kwirl » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:54 am

compare miax to bush or kerry and use some random links to prove it, watch post counts fly
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Postby selerial » Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:01 am

I sort of agree with the "don't have an opinion" option.

On the one hand, we're all people, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Even the best and worst of men all put their pants on one leg at a time, as it were.

On the other hand, I do have to respect the fact that someone was able to create something which has had a lasting legacy and which can probably be inferred as the origin of MMORPGs. (Yes, that's something of an agrandizement, but even if EQ isn't the source of all future MMORPGs, it was still the first REALLY popular one, and popularity has a way of handing it's genes down...)

No, I don't think Kris was the only person ever working on the mud, indeed, all the creators and players deserve credit, since we all shape the mud through our ideas and suggestions if not our actual contributed code and zones.

Finally, and I think this is most important, is that we're working in a text based world. There are emotes and winks which we can use to try to convey meaning, but it's simply not the same as knowing someone in real life. There's also the anonymity of working behind a keyboard that allows you to say things you wouldn't think of saying in real life if a person could remember your face when you said it and think "oh, he's an ass". In a sense, all we know of each other is the things that happen inside our brain, but that doesn't really equate to the person, per se.

Anyways, that was a really long winded null op, but when it comes down to it, I don't find myself with an opinion on the subject specifically at hand.
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Re: So, how do you remember Miax now?

Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:05 am

Cherzra is awesome, therefore "American version of Cherzra" = awesome American.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:22 am

Its negative but I agree with Mplor to an extent. Kris and Mystra are legends in the mudding world for all the immature and silly things they've done. Good or bad its part of Sojourn history.
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:26 am

kwirl wrote:compare miax to bush or kerry and use some random links to prove it, watch post counts fly


Definately Kerry. Every year or so he changes his mind about running the MUD, definately a flip-flopper. ;)
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Postby Wulv » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:12 pm

I played Sojourn though the peak time back when Miax (then Lloth) and Mystra ruled the mud with an IRON fist. Back when some of our loved forgers were just meer mortals like the rest of us. Kris does have the right to do this. I don't know anything about the Chezra {sp} thing but regardless he does have the right. HOWEVER!

I do find it in EXTREMLY POOR taste to do this (IMHO). But having met Kris and Eilean in RL I sadly have to say this is par-for-the-course when it comes to BOTH of them. Again MY OPINION.

Yes it will hurt the mud as a whole BUT ONLY if people allow it. Things will be "unveiled" to some extent. SO WHAT...it's like a show on TV you don't like...don't watch it....you don't want the code out there....DON'T look at it then. That way things are still "mysterious" for you. You (as fellow players) can make this a SHOW STOPPER or you can make it a little speed bump that nobody really cares about and will be forgotten almost as fast as it appears.

Again...my opinions...
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Postby Shar » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:27 pm

Lets not turn this into a flame Miax thing. If it devolves into that, I'll get out my editing shears. We all have a right to our opinion, but if yours is inflamitory, keep it to yourself or censor your words before you post them.

Thanks
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Postby Wulv » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:31 pm

I don't mean to flame, I main thing I wanted to point out was that we (Toril's current populace) can make this a NON-ISSUE if we so choose. You dont' like the code being out there...don't look at it...simple as that.
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Postby Shar » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:38 pm

I wasn't responding to you, personally :) If I was, I would have quoted you on your last post. The whole thread in general and everyone who reads this or posts should know that we don't want Miax flamed, thats all.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:08 pm

Wulv wrote:I don't mean to flame, I main thing I wanted to point out was that we (Toril's current populace) can make this a NON-ISSUE if we so choose. You dont' like the code being out there...don't look at it...simple as that.


This isn't going to happen. I know at least two people (invokers) will absorb all this knowledge then distribute it to the whole MUD like they always do. There's no such thing as secrets on this MUD.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Wulv » Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:10 pm

Well...again I think it's strictly up to the person to deciede.. Are these two invokers your talking about going to put you in a full-nelson headlock and FORCE you to absorb what they learn from the code when they finally get ahold of it. I doubt that seriously.

Just choose not to, if they tell you stuff about equiment stats...is that seriously going to ruin the game for you?

But each to their own,
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Postby Sesexe » Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:22 pm

I don't care.

If he was going to release something, should do what Corth said, release Toril1 code when there were sorcs/conjs/monks/berserkers/mercenaries.

Who gives a crap about Soj3? Old EQ stats aren't enough for me to give up all the new code fixes that have gone in.
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Postby Dlur » Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:50 pm

Heh, I'll enjoy seeing people try to muddle through the code. Unless the code files for S3 were cleaned up dramatically from what was there during the Sojourn1/Toril years, I doubt anyone but an experience coder can do much with them anyways, or even for that matter figure out wtf is what. Think bowl of spaghetti.
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:56 pm

Wulv, the problem Dalar's addressing with quest information is a lot more complex than just that. Making quests so easy to do that the information is just handed out to everybody on the mud who asks for it is a bad thing. What happens when everybody has every top end piece of equipment? What happens when the majority of challenge is removed? Quests are supposed to be difficult, to take time to finish, in order to be a challenge to the player and help to keep them interested. Rampant sharing of quest information removes a great deal of the challenge that quests offer.

Eventually you have people who have downloaded all the quest files farming the zones for the tradeable equipment, and all those people who want the challenge and who are willing to do the work are at a pretty heavy disadvantage to all the cheating. So there you go, several big aspects which undermine the long-term playability of the game.
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Postby Artmar » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:38 pm

It seems to me that the quest problem has been already addressed (as mentioned in the other thread)

I am not opposed to releasing the thing with just my areas alone to be honest, and perhaps Cythons and a few others. I wont strip the code base to hell and back, but I will cut-down the number of areas and almost all quests.

Kris


Personally though I think that releasing Toril1 code instead of Sojourn3 would still be a far better idea.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:43 am

Wulv wrote:Well...again I think it's strictly up to the person to deciede.. Are these two invokers your talking about going to put you in a full-nelson headlock and FORCE you to absorb what they learn from the code when they finally get ahold of it. I doubt that seriously.

Just choose not to, if they tell you stuff about equiment stats...is that seriously going to ruin the game for you?

But each to their own,


Wulv. It's a full code/area release, depending on what the forgers can get withheld. I could care less about most areas, but the code is more important.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Dalar » Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:52 am

Dlur wrote:Heh, I'll enjoy seeing people try to muddle through the code. Unless the code files for S3 were cleaned up dramatically from what was there during the Sojourn1/Toril years, I doubt anyone but an experience coder can do much with them anyways, or even for that matter figure out wtf is what. Think bowl of spaghetti.


unless the gods of that era don't put any comments, i doubt it. C code is easy to read imho.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby kwirl » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:50 am

hard to read? ugh, i dont even play much atm, but id kill to get my hands on the code. that shit reads like a book
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Postby Wulv » Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:28 pm

After sleeping the night on this I can see alot of your points about how this could be bad for Toril in just about any form. I was looking at it strictly on a item stat / mob resistance sort of way. Not as a whole thinking of people actually chewing up the code itself.

My appologies 8)

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