Hi, a co-worker is going to be starting a tabletop campaign and my closest interaction with anything D&D related is... Toril. I'm being told to think about what class/race I want to be and I can't decide because I don't know what's available, what each class/race is capable of, etc. and what the higher-end possibilities for characters are. Does anyone know of any online resources I can check out to get a clue? I don't want to invest in the v3.5 texts just yet, so going out and buying the handbooks isn't something I'm considering as an option/suggestion at this point.
Thanks!
D&D Newbie Help
Ask if you can be a Shadowdancer.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'
Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone
Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'
Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone
Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'
Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
http://www.d20srd.org/
This is basically an online version of the 3.5ed rules.
Here's a quick breakdown for you, about the different classes.
Barbarian - Lots of hit points (the most, actually). Excellent attacking power, proficient in all weapons. Barbarians use light/medium armor, so they're a bit easier to hit than Fighters. Average number of skill points. Gets some thiefly dodging/evading skills that help them avoid being surprised by monsters or traps. Barbarians can Rage, which boosts their attack power and hit points for a few rounds at a time (much like berserking on Toril).
Bard - Jack of all trades, master of none. Moderate attack power, a small selection of mediocre spells. Bard songs are generally underwhelming... they provide small bonuses or charm monsters, but there's no Song of Healing or anything. Above average skill points. Bards make great "front men," able to handle Diplomacy well, but they lack combat proficiency.
Cleric - Much like a Toril Cleric, these guys are primary healers. Clerics can wear heavy armor, meaning you can make a fairly decent Battle Cleric if you want, though their attack bonus is only average. Low skill points. Clerics get lots of anti-undead spells, buffs, debuffs, and heals. Clerics can "drop" spells for heals, meaning if you have Bless memorized, you can cast it as Cure Light Wounds instead, for free. It's hard to play a Cleric "wrong."
Druid - Average hit points, average skill points. Like Toril Druids, these guys have lots of woodsy spells. Druids can function as backup healers, and they can "drop" spells for summon spells. Unlike Toril Druids, they get SAVAGE pets, and can shapechange themselves. Druids are a complicated class with many options, and I don't recommend Druids to new players. A Druid is at his best when shapechanged into something nasty, with an equally nasty pet sidekick, though this form has disadvantages (you can't speak, for example).
Fighter - Excellent tanks and damage dealers. Low skill points, above average hit points, excellent attack bonus. Fighters get bonus "feats," which are like bonus abilities you can choose to customize your character. You can make a bow-fighter, with lots of feats that give bonuses to ranged attacks. Or you can make a defense-fighter, with feats to boost his saves and hit points. Or you can make a beatdown fighter, with feats like Power Attack and Cleave designed to do damage. Fighters and Barbarians are similar in power, though they handle much differently.
Monk - Average hit points, average attack bonus, but lots of neat abilities. Monks can use their fists to stun enemies, they get a couple neat immunities later on, and they can run fast, jump high, and survive long falls. Monks are mediocre in combat, however, unlike Toril Monks. I played a Monk recently, and he was practically impossible to kill, but he couldn't do very much damage. Monks are great at very low levels, and then again at very high levels, but they sorta suck for the midlevels.
Paladin - High hit points, excellent saving throws, lots of defense and resistances. Paladins must be Lawful Good, but they get lots of cool abilities. Paladins spells aren't bad, and some of the high level Pally spells are downright mean. Paladins can turn undead like Clerics, but not as well. Paladins are a good beginner choice, if you can handle roleplaying a Lawful Good zealot who always takes the moral high ground.
Ranger - Just as useless as Toril Rangers. No, I'm not bitter, and I'm not kidding. You can make your Ranger a melee fighter or a ranged combatant, but either route is subpar. Rangers must wear light armor, and they get a fairly low level and ineffective pet sidekick. Ranger spells are universally pointless. Rangers get above average skill points and hit points, which is their biggest advantage. Anything a Ranger can do, a Fighter can eventually do better.
Rogue - Thieves. Mediocre hit points and light armor, but TONS of skill points. Rogues can use "sneak attacks" in combat to do bonus damage to enemies who cannot defend themselves properly. Rogues do exactly what you expect them to do... pick locks, search for traps, hide, sneak, etc. Rogues are fun to play, but very fragile.
Sorcerer - Sorcerers cast arcane spells. They have a relatively small number of spells at their disposal, but they can cast them more times per day than other casters. Sorcerers make good Invokers... mages who do nothing but cast damage spells over and over. Sorcerers don't memorize spells, you get access to a certain number of spells at every spell level, and you may cast any of them at any time.
Wizard - Arcane casters who favor diversity over power, Wizards get access to a wide variety of spells, but must memorize them in advance and cannot cast as many spells per day as a Sorcerer. Wizards are your standard D&D mages.
This is basically an online version of the 3.5ed rules.
Here's a quick breakdown for you, about the different classes.
Barbarian - Lots of hit points (the most, actually). Excellent attacking power, proficient in all weapons. Barbarians use light/medium armor, so they're a bit easier to hit than Fighters. Average number of skill points. Gets some thiefly dodging/evading skills that help them avoid being surprised by monsters or traps. Barbarians can Rage, which boosts their attack power and hit points for a few rounds at a time (much like berserking on Toril).
Bard - Jack of all trades, master of none. Moderate attack power, a small selection of mediocre spells. Bard songs are generally underwhelming... they provide small bonuses or charm monsters, but there's no Song of Healing or anything. Above average skill points. Bards make great "front men," able to handle Diplomacy well, but they lack combat proficiency.
Cleric - Much like a Toril Cleric, these guys are primary healers. Clerics can wear heavy armor, meaning you can make a fairly decent Battle Cleric if you want, though their attack bonus is only average. Low skill points. Clerics get lots of anti-undead spells, buffs, debuffs, and heals. Clerics can "drop" spells for heals, meaning if you have Bless memorized, you can cast it as Cure Light Wounds instead, for free. It's hard to play a Cleric "wrong."
Druid - Average hit points, average skill points. Like Toril Druids, these guys have lots of woodsy spells. Druids can function as backup healers, and they can "drop" spells for summon spells. Unlike Toril Druids, they get SAVAGE pets, and can shapechange themselves. Druids are a complicated class with many options, and I don't recommend Druids to new players. A Druid is at his best when shapechanged into something nasty, with an equally nasty pet sidekick, though this form has disadvantages (you can't speak, for example).
Fighter - Excellent tanks and damage dealers. Low skill points, above average hit points, excellent attack bonus. Fighters get bonus "feats," which are like bonus abilities you can choose to customize your character. You can make a bow-fighter, with lots of feats that give bonuses to ranged attacks. Or you can make a defense-fighter, with feats to boost his saves and hit points. Or you can make a beatdown fighter, with feats like Power Attack and Cleave designed to do damage. Fighters and Barbarians are similar in power, though they handle much differently.
Monk - Average hit points, average attack bonus, but lots of neat abilities. Monks can use their fists to stun enemies, they get a couple neat immunities later on, and they can run fast, jump high, and survive long falls. Monks are mediocre in combat, however, unlike Toril Monks. I played a Monk recently, and he was practically impossible to kill, but he couldn't do very much damage. Monks are great at very low levels, and then again at very high levels, but they sorta suck for the midlevels.
Paladin - High hit points, excellent saving throws, lots of defense and resistances. Paladins must be Lawful Good, but they get lots of cool abilities. Paladins spells aren't bad, and some of the high level Pally spells are downright mean. Paladins can turn undead like Clerics, but not as well. Paladins are a good beginner choice, if you can handle roleplaying a Lawful Good zealot who always takes the moral high ground.
Ranger - Just as useless as Toril Rangers. No, I'm not bitter, and I'm not kidding. You can make your Ranger a melee fighter or a ranged combatant, but either route is subpar. Rangers must wear light armor, and they get a fairly low level and ineffective pet sidekick. Ranger spells are universally pointless. Rangers get above average skill points and hit points, which is their biggest advantage. Anything a Ranger can do, a Fighter can eventually do better.
Rogue - Thieves. Mediocre hit points and light armor, but TONS of skill points. Rogues can use "sneak attacks" in combat to do bonus damage to enemies who cannot defend themselves properly. Rogues do exactly what you expect them to do... pick locks, search for traps, hide, sneak, etc. Rogues are fun to play, but very fragile.
Sorcerer - Sorcerers cast arcane spells. They have a relatively small number of spells at their disposal, but they can cast them more times per day than other casters. Sorcerers make good Invokers... mages who do nothing but cast damage spells over and over. Sorcerers don't memorize spells, you get access to a certain number of spells at every spell level, and you may cast any of them at any time.
Wizard - Arcane casters who favor diversity over power, Wizards get access to a wide variety of spells, but must memorize them in advance and cannot cast as many spells per day as a Sorcerer. Wizards are your standard D&D mages.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Lahgen wrote:Ask if you can be a Shadowdancer.
And if you can, shoot yourself. It's not as twinky as Pun-Pun the Kobold, but then again, what is?
For online resources, WotC's message boards can provide some insight. The Character Optimization boards, while I wouldn't make one of those characters because you'd be run out of your new campaign, they do give some decent base ideas for making a character on the mechanical standpoint. It can especially help if you have a good RP idea for a new character, but not sure how to make him. :)
Probably the biggest thing with D&D 3.0 and 3.5 is that when you make your character, you really have to plan ahead, especially if you want to go into any of the prestige classes, since some have some rather hefty requirements, and the prestige classes might fit your character concept better than one of the straight core classes. Certainly not to say that the core classes are bad in any way! Especially a level 20 cleric or level 20 druid more than hold their own. But the prestige classes might give you the flavor you're looking for.
One question to ask here...do you know what campaign setting this is going to be in? Some of your options are going to be different depending on the setting, especially your race selections.
Some good, standard characters though... (keep in mind, this is my own opinion..everyone has a different idea of what makes a good character)
Cleric - Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling, Human
Clerics are martial clerics for the most part in D&D, so Dwarf and Gnome are good options because of their Constitution bonus, since you'll be in the front line just as much as a fighter. Dwarves have more martial gods as well, so if you can get access to the War Domain, this will help, depending on your diety choice. Dwarves are hurt with the Charisma penalty in regards to turning, but there are some feats you can take to put those turning attempts to good use elsewhere. Gnomes and Halflings are good choices since they get the "wicked-pissin-small" bonus (+1 to hit everything, +1 to AC), so it's good for dodging in and out of combat healing people and/or hitting people. Humans usually have a wider selection of dieties (depending on setting of course), but the bonus feat at 1st level always helps, and since clerics get so few skill points, the bonus skill point helps as well. For the most part the other races make excellent clerics as well.
Rogue - Elf, Human, Halfling, Gnome
The skill whore. Since a large part of the rogue's usefulness comes from it's large amount of skill points, the extra points from being human can only help, as well as the bonus feat to get a jump start on some of the feat trees you might be looking at (dodge, mobility, spring attack, etc). The as of yet completely unexplained ability of elves to sense secret doors underground since they spend so much time in trees is really nice. With your high search skill, you can just pass the elf over the walls and find pretty much all hidden doors if you're in a dungeoneering campaign. Halflings are small and have a dex bonus, gnomes are small and the arcane affinity, especially if you go the route of the Arcane Trickster prestige class.
-edit - forgot they changed gnome's favored class from illusionist to bard for some reason, so while the gnome is still a good option, it's not as optimal. But you don't need optimal, just fun. ;)
Wiz/Sorc - Elf, Half-Elf, Human (Gold Dwarf in FR for Sorc.)
Elves are of course the quintessential arcane race, and humans are not far behind. The only problem you might run across with playing an elf is combining their constitution penalty on top of a wizard or sorcerer's already low HP could cause some problems, especially early on. Gold Dwarves are an interesting option for sorcerer if you're playing in Forgotten Realms, since they are a dwarven race without the charisma penalty, and their constitution bonus helps boost their low HP and the sorc's poor fortitude save.
Fighter/Paladin/Barb/whatever - all depends.
The fighter type is more open in many respects than the other classes, just because there's so many different ways you can play the fighter with all of their bonus feats. While an elf may not be an optimal front line fighter, they're certainly not bad, and excellent at ranged combat with their dexterity bonus. Dwarves are dangerous at short distances, and have some very nice prestige classes available to them (Hammer of Moradin, Dwarven Defender, Stone Warden). Just a couple examples really, but it depends on what kind of fighting style you're looking to use.
I'll try to post some more later when I'm not at work..
So table top campaignes aren't quite extinct yet, huh?! :) I mean with all the muds and mmo's around.
I still have my char sheet covered in cobwebs somewhere from 2 years ago I think. I think it's time I call the DM and my fellow band mates to reunite! I was in the middle of disarming traps on our last adventure and I need to know what happens next!
My band mates would be uneasy when I played because OOC, they knew what my char would do and that was to pick pocket them (until she got to know them of course) or accidently bring 2 headed yetties to my party. That one was horrible, btw.
Good times of fun and lots of laughter. I think the interesting part is how players actually can get attached to their characters in a fantasy world. Soooo emotional *sniff sniff* So many stories were very interesting and intriguing, enough to write books about them.
But I'm to old for those things now so I'm not calling anyone! or writing novels like I'm doing here.......reminissing - paper, pencil, dice, table...OoOoOhHhhh!
Edit: Hope you have a memorable experience with the campaign, Birile. :)
I still have my char sheet covered in cobwebs somewhere from 2 years ago I think. I think it's time I call the DM and my fellow band mates to reunite! I was in the middle of disarming traps on our last adventure and I need to know what happens next!
My band mates would be uneasy when I played because OOC, they knew what my char would do and that was to pick pocket them (until she got to know them of course) or accidently bring 2 headed yetties to my party. That one was horrible, btw.
Good times of fun and lots of laughter. I think the interesting part is how players actually can get attached to their characters in a fantasy world. Soooo emotional *sniff sniff* So many stories were very interesting and intriguing, enough to write books about them.
But I'm to old for those things now so I'm not calling anyone! or writing novels like I'm doing here.......reminissing - paper, pencil, dice, table...OoOoOhHhhh!
Edit: Hope you have a memorable experience with the campaign, Birile. :)
If you need specific info on Forgotten Realms or generic d20 genre, get in touch with me. I have available to me every single book in 3rd edition, 3.5 edition, and quite a few of the old 2e books and adventures. I can't spout off a lot of things off the top of my head like Branthur, but if you need some good info, get in touch with me. My point of expertise is religions and pantheons. :)
And I highly disagree with Branthur on his opinion of monks and rangers in D&D. Enjoy!
And I highly disagree with Branthur on his opinion of monks and rangers in D&D. Enjoy!
Memorable Quotes from TorilMUD Gathering 2006
Sotana sez, 'I'll take it dirty.'
Teflor sez, 'Bobo, show me on the doll where the barbarian touched you.'
Duna sez, 'Is there anything else that needs to go in my backend?'
Pril sez, 'I'm too pretty to go to jail.'
Boboloppe sez, 'The only reason I joined Imphras was because of Sotana's ass.'
Sotana sez, 'I'll take it dirty.'
Teflor sez, 'Bobo, show me on the doll where the barbarian touched you.'
Duna sez, 'Is there anything else that needs to go in my backend?'
Pril sez, 'I'm too pretty to go to jail.'
Boboloppe sez, 'The only reason I joined Imphras was because of Sotana's ass.'
Not sure of the setting, it's all brand new to me. Like I said, Toril's the only exposure I've had to D&D aside from a couple of Nintendo games when I was a kid and a D&D book starring some caster named Raistlin.
I'm trying, as I mentioned, to figure out what class/race combo I want to be, including up through the end-game with possible prestige classes, not to mention I hear you can dual-class or something like that. The only thing I'm certain of is that I'm not too interested in warrior classes or a straight-up cleric. Helpful? :P
I'm trying, as I mentioned, to figure out what class/race combo I want to be, including up through the end-game with possible prestige classes, not to mention I hear you can dual-class or something like that. The only thing I'm certain of is that I'm not too interested in warrior classes or a straight-up cleric. Helpful? :P
-
Kesena
- Sojourner
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:34 am
- Location: gatineau, quebec, canada
- Contact:
Not terribly helpful, so many class race combos to choose from. I've got access to most 3.5 books as well, know a fair bit about mechanics, still play in a weekly game. If you have some idea of what kind of character you wanna be playing, i can give you some advice on builds. But until you've got a concept, pretty much shooting in the dark.
Gre'as'anto Lani
The module you had with the caster, Raistlin, was Dragonlance. :)
Memorable Quotes from TorilMUD Gathering 2006
Sotana sez, 'I'll take it dirty.'
Teflor sez, 'Bobo, show me on the doll where the barbarian touched you.'
Duna sez, 'Is there anything else that needs to go in my backend?'
Pril sez, 'I'm too pretty to go to jail.'
Boboloppe sez, 'The only reason I joined Imphras was because of Sotana's ass.'
Sotana sez, 'I'll take it dirty.'
Teflor sez, 'Bobo, show me on the doll where the barbarian touched you.'
Duna sez, 'Is there anything else that needs to go in my backend?'
Pril sez, 'I'm too pretty to go to jail.'
Boboloppe sez, 'The only reason I joined Imphras was because of Sotana's ass.'
-
ssar
- Sojourner
- Posts: 1446
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
- Contact:
Ragorn wrote:
Ranger - Just as useless as Toril Rangers. No, I'm not bitter, and I'm not kidding. You can make your Ranger a melee fighter or a ranged combatant, but either route is subpar. Rangers must wear light armor, and they get a fairly low level and ineffective pet sidekick. Ranger spells are universally pointless. Rangers get above average skill points and hit points, which is their biggest advantage. Anything a Ranger can do, a Fighter can eventually do better.
rofl - double owned.
wow, I find this quite interesting.
at least it can be said that TorilMUD adheres quite well to some D&D aspects!
BEER
Rangers rise in power with Complete Divine. Sadly, it still doesn't make up for the fact that they aren't fighters.
To put this into perspective, fighters are considered the class that requires multiclassing the most, because straight fighters suck. They are still better than rangers in straight-up fighting, and with the right items, better overall.
To put this into perspective, fighters are considered the class that requires multiclassing the most, because straight fighters suck. They are still better than rangers in straight-up fighting, and with the right items, better overall.
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Birile wrote:The only thing I'm certain of is that I'm not too interested in warrior classes or a straight-up cleric. Helpful? :P
The cleric in 3.5 is actually voted the most overpowered class in most polls (though it's not as bad as it was in 3.0.)
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Branthur wrote:-edit - forgot they changed gnome's favored class from illusionist to bard for some reason, so while the gnome is still a good option, it's not as optimal. But you don't need optimal, just fun. ;)
Illusionist is a specialist wizard. A favored class has to be a class, not a specialization within a class, so in 3.5 this change was made to push them into conformity with the ill-conceived magic school system.
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
-
Kesena
- Sojourner
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:34 am
- Location: gatineau, quebec, canada
- Contact:
I personally find the 3.5 ranger is a decent class. Sure they're not the heavy hittersd that a straight up warrior is, but straight up warriors don't cast... so i guess thats a balance thing. I for one really appreciated the ranger changes that came in with 3.5. took them away from being a one trick pony. i.e. no one took more then 1 level of ranger cause everything but spells that was funky about the ranger (free feats) was handed out at first.
I've personally got a lot of love for the tabletop ranger, probably my fav class to play in a table top setting. my group and i sat down to an "ourselves" campaign in the grey hawk world. No one was surprised when i chose to try and become a ranger.
I've personally got a lot of love for the tabletop ranger, probably my fav class to play in a table top setting. my group and i sat down to an "ourselves" campaign in the grey hawk world. No one was surprised when i chose to try and become a ranger.
Gre'as'anto Lani
Interestingly enough, to be a mud-style "illusionist," you'd probably have to take the Shadow Adept prestige class.
So yeah, see if you can take that instead. Million times more badass than Shadowdancer.
So yeah, see if you can take that instead. Million times more badass than Shadowdancer.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'
Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone
Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'
Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone
Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'
Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
moritheil wrote:Rangers rise in power with Complete Divine. Sadly, it still doesn't make up for the fact that they aren't fighters.
To put this into perspective, fighters are considered the class that requires multiclassing the most, because straight fighters suck. They are still better than rangers in straight-up fighting, and with the right items, better overall.
Fighters drop off in power at the very high levels not because the class is bad, but because they simply run out of worthwhile feats to take. Once you've got Whirlwind and/or Manyshot (the "final" feats in the melee and bow feat trees), there's just not much else for you to do with your free feats.
Rangers suffer because their best skills are so situational. The Favored Enemy bonus is sweet, unless your DM doesn't throw any favored enemies your way. Likewise, the animal and tracking skills can be very effective, but are of no use in a dungeon crawl.
Rangers can serve as admirable forward scouts. They get lots of skill points, plus all the typical scouting skills (hide, move silently, spot, etc) in-class. However, they can't pick locks or disarm traps, so you still need a Rogue in the party... and if you have a Rogue, do you really need a second scout? In this case, the other party members tread on the poor Ranger's feet.
Ranger spells are simply dismal. They get the stat buffs (Bull's Strength etc), and they get some quality picks like Longstrider and Greater Magic Fang, but the Ranger's caster level is only half of his Ranger level, meaning his spells don't last long and don't give the full, expected bonuses. And Ranger 4th level spells are laughable... Cure Serious? Summon Nature's Ally 4? Nondetection? These are all spells that likely exist elsewhere in your party in much lower spell circles. The redundancy just isn't necessary.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
The beauty of 3.x edition of D&D is that most every class is available to every race. I had a lot of fun playing a halfling mage a few years back. My DM hated it when I would cast Evard's Black Tentacles centered on myself. It only affects medium and larger creatures. As the halfling is a small creature, the tentacles ignore him/her and grapple/squish everything that may be in the area attacking him/her! muahahahaha!! Have fun with it, depending on the group of players and/or DM, you can really have some fun making an interesting character that isn't so deficient that it's not viable in a group full of power-gamers.
Halflings FTW!!!
Furbie
Halflings FTW!!!
Furbie
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