Cub Scouts / Boy Scouts

[Vigis]

I was in Scouts growing up, but I have talked to a few people who are straight up against the organization.

I figure that it teaches responsibility, respect, survival skills, etc.

What do you think? I am doing a poll on this one so if you would explain your beliefs, it would prolly help :)

BTW, for those of you who don't know, the Cub Scout / Boy Scout motto is: Always do your best.

The organization teaches that a boy's duty is (in this order): To God; To Your Country; To Your Family; To Others; To Yourself.

Is it just the fact that I grew up in Montana that makes me think these are good values?

If you think I should have added another option, feel free to post it.

Thanks :)

[Kesena]

You know, they're co-ed up in canada now, so they teach girls the same values these days, though the motto up here is be prepared. Not only was I a scout for 4 yrs, came back as a leader for another 2. Loved the kids, loved the fun, i thought it was great. A really rewarding lil slice of my life.

[Botef]

I was a Cub Scout and then a Boy Scout growing up, but never reached Eagle (I think I got as far as Life).

From a historical stand point, most adults I've met who were scouts back in the 50's have a really good set of morals and ideals...Towards the end of my scouting years things seemed a lot different. During my last year in scouts, it started to feel more like a Parks & Rec sponsored club with an extensive hierarchy of rules then the simple and fun group I originally got involved for. In the end, thats what ultimately made me stop going.

I wanted to go camping, learn about survival, learn about anything...But that slowly seemed to go out of focus and into being a group focused primarily on civic activites like food drives, fundraisers, etc. Nothing wrong with that mind you, but I didn't join Boy Scouts back then to plan food drives and fundraisers every month...I joined to go camping with my friends every other weekend and explore the great outdoors on my own accord. I liked Boy Scouts because of the freedom they offered you to do things on your own and inevitably learn from it.

I'd say most of the people I knew in boy scouts didn't really retain much in terms of values, beliefs, etc that came directly from being a scout. They did however come out with a well rounded knowledge of survival, both in and out of the wilderness, as well as a lot of social skills...Something I really value. It's amazing how many people haven't the slightest idea how to use a compass, or are uncomfortable talking to a complete stranger.

Personally I think boy scouts was a great experience for myself, especially all the survival and camping knowledge which really, really goes a long way some times...I'm often shocked at how little people know about real camping - i.e. not camping at a 'campsite', bringing your own water, etc. The majority of people I meet think of camping as going to your local campsite, parking in one of the designated areas and setting up your tent. They are often overwhelmed when I try to take them backpacking through the wilderness where there isnt a port-o-potty or running water close by.

One thing I noticed in the last few years of my experiences was the increase in 'rules' and 'regulations' being created and enforced. To me they seemed excessive, as though they existed primarily to prevent them from being sued. Were talking rules like: no matches, no pockey knives no permanent markers, no permanent paints, etc, etc etc. Rules that under the circumstances make little sense to me. IMO it would be much more in the interest of everyone to teach scouts to build a fire safely, use a knife properly ,surviving, navigation, first aid...This is what stuck with me the most out of the whole experience.

In the end though I had an awesome experience. Both of my scout masters were pretty traditional, and for the most part just were there to make sure nobody got seriously hurt - key word seriously ;) There were many times one of us would get hurt, only to have are scout master say something like "Well, you better go take care of it then. What do you expect me to do? I'm not your mother."

All in all, it toughend me up and boosted my overall confidence to where I'm comfortable exploring the wilderness off trail, camping just about anywhere and not being afraid of handling an emergancy situation under such circumstances. I think a lot of that came from the fact that as Boy Scouts we were expected to take care of ourselves 100%, from cooking, to setting up camp, to navigating, to first aid and so on and so forth.

I'd be curious to hear some of the arguments people have against the Boy Scouts, especially those that suggest they teach bad morals.

[ssar]

Yeah, cubs, scouts and venturers are fantastic for growing up.
Great institution.

[kiryan]

I was in scouts for about 6 years, my father was a pack leader for 4 or 5.

He hated pulling teeth to get people to pitch in and help out and quit because that was what the scouting organization pushes, recruit recruit recruit. I'm not gonna say thats wrong of them given their organization structure and method of operation, but thats just not my fathers gig. That and fundraising pretty much turned him off.

I enjoyed it for several years, but the never endling series of "awards" merit badges ect was boring. I was not "proud" of them, I just looked at them as one more step towards achieving a goal which is probably half the intention.

My family went camping and fishing a lot, so it wasn't such a big thing to go to the scout trips, but they were fun. I did meet a lot of people in scouts that I probably would prefer not to meet. "bad boys" people who wanted to fight or do mischievious things. Didn't really have a lot of influence on me, but i remember a couple situations where i went with a "friend" who did some stuff that i was uncomfortable with.

The ceremonies were a bit wierd. I was never comfortable with them all the candle lighting, costumes, and the monologues... felt very north american indianish... A good system I suppose, but I found it uncomfortable given my Christian beliefs. Not grossly so, just uncomfortable.

My biggest problem with scouts today is that women are allowed in the organization, and I applaud them for keeping the homosexuals out of their organization (as best they can). I look at scouts as a place where struggling boys can learn how to be a man in the presence of other men. Where they can learn how to do things on their own and feel good about it. I'm sure most of the women do as good as job as the men do, but I think the male role model and the time spent without women can contribute significantly in a boys development.

BTW did you know that 33% of the paid staff of Girl Scouts is homosexual (herse)? Now why do you think they represent a much larger % in this organization than a typical organization? Why do you think they have targetted girl scouts as a volunteer organization when it doesn't directly support their gay causes? Its simple, where else can you and your alternative life style be presented as a positive role model to young developing girls? Where else can you put your gay touch on the development of future girl scout curriculum? Get your children out of girl scouts or at least make sure you go with them.

With Boy scouts and more so with girl scouts, you need to know what they are being exposed too. You need to talk with your children about the things in the organization that are not right (given your beliefs). You are the rudder, the scouting organizations are a steam boat. If you use scouts as a baby sitter, don't be surprised when something retarded happens.

[Kesena]

Hrmm I wonder what the differences are between american scouting and canadian scouting, personally found that much of the ritual or ceremony involved was of a more militaristic nature. at least that was the case in my troop. I for one would have missed out on a very rewarding portion of my childhood if the scouts hadn't gone co-ed.

[Birile]

BTW did you know that 33% of the paid staff of Girl Scouts is homosexual (herse)? Now why do you think they represent a much larger % in this organization than a typical organization? Why do you think they have targetted girl scouts as a volunteer organization when it doesn't directly support their gay causes? Its simple, where else can you and your alternative life style be presented as a positive role model to young developing girls? Where else can you put your gay touch on the development of future girl scout curriculum? Get your children out of girl scouts or at least make sure you go with them.

What?? I'm a homosexual, was in the Scouts and my daughter's in Girl Scouts and happens to be one of the most well-rounded children I've met. Homosexual does not equal pedophile, nor does it equal "gay missionary trying to convert you and yours." Where do you people come from??

[Vigis]

I'd be curious to hear some of the arguments people have against the Boy Scouts, especially those that suggest they teach bad morals.

Birile's post above with Kiryan's quote is probably one of the biggest arguments I have heard. Others include the fact that it is a private organization with religous foundations. etc.

[Hsoj]

Homosexual does not equal pedophile, nor does it equal "gay missionary trying to convert you and yours." Where do you people come from??

Not everyone is called to be a missionary, Birile. Maybe you escaped this task when you signed up.
My suggestion to you would be not that ask that question though Birile, it would be to the disadvantage of this forum to open up that can of worms


My buddy Dave was an boyscott, an obnoxious, i'm better than you boyscott. Then he became an eaglescout mellowed out, or maybe that was just the drugs. Who knows. I wouldn't mind putting my son in it and joining myself, will they take 24 year old geezers?

[Botef]

True, a lot of eaglescouts I meet have a higher than you type of attitude in a lot of situations...The Boy Scouts have worked very hard to establish the word eaglescout as being synonamous with a moral, hardworking individual. Unfortunatly thats not always the case, but you'll find that with just about any group/organization/school that offers 'prestige' as a reward for being amongst their ranks...Look at cases where colleges graduate students that don't fully understand what they've been taught, but those students get the job because they have a degree that says they do, rather then someone with actual hands-on experience and proficency in the field. Ultimately it works out well for anyone who toughs it out to the end by offering them a bit of an upper hand which IMO is a good thing regardless of whether or not all of them live up to the title they've earned.

[teflor the ranger]

The boy scouts are a lovely organization. It's a true national organization with a set of respected standards. Like any other organization they've had local issues that have been monitored and well managed.

The largest issue most people take with scouting are as follows:

1) The national organization takes the stance that homosexuality is immoral.

2) The naitonal organization regularly promotes christian beliefs, although they have members of many other faiths.

Considering that these are the stances that many popular national organizations take, one could hardly consider the scouts immoral without inidicting the American society at large.

But to be honest, it is a private organization. If you don't like it, don't join. For the most part the organization doesn't really accept women (OMFG IT IS SEXIST?! stfu). The focus of the organization is to develop young boys by teaching them how to work together and give them some of the basic skills that many 'civilized' people lack (like how to camp, fish, and hike).

You will find people ANYWHERE that will have a 'better than you' attitude, and certainly you will encounter a few in the boy scout program, as well as your school, your office, your religious group, wherever. You already have like 20 of them on this very mud.

The organization has a stated set of moral values. This is America and no one's stopping you from creating an organization with YOUR set of moral values.