Looking For A Laptop ...

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Silverast Rubicyn
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Looking For A Laptop ...

Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:29 pm

Looking for a laptop that I can customize myself ... preferrably AMD and no software. Anyone know of any decent sites I could browse through? I tried dell, and they don't really offer much customization that I saw.

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Postby Jenera » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:25 pm

I tend to buy all my computer products, when possible anyway, from newegg.com, try that.
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Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:49 pm

Thanks sweetie .. but I'm pretty sure I've found exactly what I'm looking for.

However, I have a new question.

Do I go with an AMD Turion, or a Pentium M?
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Postby Kifle » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:05 pm

Silverast Rubicyn wrote:Thanks sweetie .. but I'm pretty sure I've found exactly what I'm looking for.

However, I have a new question.

Do I go with an AMD Turion, or a Pentium M?


What are you planning to do with this laptop? I'm not in the hip crowd, so I'm not too knowledgable on laptops, but if you're not looking for super high-powered gaming I hear the centrino setup is really nice since it stays damn cool (which is why a lot of lappys go bad). I'm not sure which Intel chip that uses though. Maybe the PM but I'm also thinking it may be a beefed-up celeron. Like I said, though, I'm not much of a laptop man.
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Postby Marthammor » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:20 pm

Centrino laptops are just Pentium M processors with an Intel wireless networking card and something else by Intel, think the chipset. Can get the same or better performance with other parts it just won't be a 'Centrino' laptop.

As for choice between the Turion and Pentium M, I'd go with the Pentium for a laptop. Turions are still fairly new I think and haven't heard much about them.
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Postby Kifle » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:34 pm

Marthammor wrote:Centrino laptops are just Pentium M processors with an Intel wireless networking card and something else by Intel, think the chipset. Can get the same or better performance with other parts it just won't be a 'Centrino' laptop.

As for choice between the Turion and Pentium M, I'd go with the Pentium for a laptop. Turions are still fairly new I think and haven't heard much about them.


I thought there was something with the centrino setup that kept the system a lot more cool (which is why it is so popular now). Anyway, that would be my bet. I love AMD, but with a laptop I'd say that heat is going to have to be something you'll need to take into serious account.
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Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:41 pm

The laptop is going to be used for gaming when I'm not at home (like work, or for when I go away on the weekends).

Thanks for the input guys.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:13 pm

Silverast Rubicyn wrote:The laptop is going to be used for gaming when I'm not at home (like work, or for when I go away on the weekends).

Thanks for the input guys.


I had the same idea as you Mr Rubicyn, but I decided to wait a year for upgradable video cards in laptops. That shit will be important over the next few years with MMOs in general.
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Postby Vaprak » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:41 pm

The Pentium M CPUs stay cooler and consume less energy (direct coorelation there). So not only does it not overheat, it also lasts longer on a battery charge.

This is one of the reasons that Intel is looking to include some of the technology from this mobile line of chips in its desktop systems (less heat, less power).

However, from what I've seen it is difficult to find a Pentium M (ie Centrino) notebook that has a beefy notebook video adapter. Generally with the Pentium M CPUs you see an Intel Chipset graphics adapter, which although not bad for general use and presenations doesn't really cut the cheese for graphical gaming. Generally you only see the higher end mobile graphic adapters paired with the regular Pentium chips, which have about 1/3 the battery life and get awful hot in a notebook enviroment. Generally the regular Pentium chip notebooks are aimed more at a "desktop replacement" market as opposed to the Pentium M in a total mobility solution.

I know next to nothing about AMD stuff because we never use it and have no desire to. Tried it once(couple years ago), had nothing but problems, and likely never will use it again in our systems.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:30 am

Vaprak wrote:The Pentium M CPUs stay cooler and consume less energy (direct coorelation there). So not only does it not overheat, it also lasts longer on a battery charge.

This is one of the reasons that Intel is looking to include some of the technology from this mobile line of chips in its desktop systems (less heat, less power).

However, from what I've seen it is difficult to find a Pentium M (ie Centrino) notebook that has a beefy notebook video adapter. Generally with the Pentium M CPUs you see an Intel Chipset graphics adapter, which although not bad for general use and presenations doesn't really cut the cheese for graphical gaming. Generally you only see the higher end mobile graphic adapters paired with the regular Pentium chips, which have about 1/3 the battery life and get awful hot in a notebook enviroment. Generally the regular Pentium chip notebooks are aimed more at a "desktop replacement" market as opposed to the Pentium M in a total mobility solution.

I know next to nothing about AMD stuff because we never use it and have no desire to. Tried it once(couple years ago), had nothing but problems, and likely never will use it again in our systems.


You should really really consider AMD for desktops. The new opterons are amazing.

And yeah, the more gaming oriented laptops come with the larger p4s which is just a bad idea in a laptop imo. I even saw a prescott being offered in the dell xps series.

Depending on the amount of cash you have to throw on this thing, You may want to give Voodoo or Falcon NW a look. They will have the better mobile video cards available. Also, you'll need a nice spare battery if you're really going to be gaming. Personally I'd just get a DS or PSP. It's a lot cheaper and more viable option for mobile gaming.

Dalar - I am pretty sure you can upgrade your video card in laptops these days as long as the housing is built for it (plug n' play). Basically the VC detatches from the bottom of the laptop and you can upgrade whenever without a problem.
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Postby Vaprak » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:47 am

Kifle wrote:You should really really consider AMD for desktops. The new opterons are amazing.



I have no doubt that the CPUs themselves are cool. The problem is the the "whole package". We sell Intel CPUs on Intel motherboards that have Intel chipsets. I can't remember the last time we had to RMA a motherboard due to anything other than UPS beating the holy crap out of the box and cracking the boards. We sell to businesses ranging from small to corporate. Sure, we sell a few PCs to walk-in customers but they don't account for anywhere near enough revenue to stock an entirely different line of motherboards and CPUs.

We used to sell Asus motherboards with both AMD and Intel chips. Asus is one of the leading motherboard manufacturers in the world and always does well on reviews for reliability and ability to overclock(ie stability). We saw nothing but problems with them. We tried MSI boards also and had even more issues. One of the other PC joints in town that sells only AMD stuff uses GigaByte boards and as far as I'm concerned they are junk also. Yet another PC place in town sells AMD only as well, but on whatever-motherboard-they-happen-to-get-cheapest. Their stuff is also absolute crap. People buy 1 PC from those two places, and then never again because our Intel systems just work.

Again, I'm not denying that AMD makes a better CPU in MANY ways, but the whole package just isn't there. A CPU by itself a PC does not make. As for me personally the most graphical game I play is windows solitaire so I don't really need a bleeding edge graphical PC. I can MUD just fine off either of my 2 Intel desktop PCs or my Centrino notebook.

(sorry to hijack your thread Silver) I mean I think Alienware also makes customizable laptops.
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Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:26 am

Thanks for the advice everyone, I really appreciate it. I was considering a Pentium M 2ghz with a seperate ATI video card in it, rather than having it integrated, as I know these aren't the best for gaming. I was looking for barebones, because I like to configure everything myself, and not get all the 'bloatware' places like Dell put on their machines (which also inflates price).

This is the site I was looking at earlier today, and was putting together some nice laptops for about $1500 (which is what I was looking to spend):

http://www.rjtech.com/nb15.htm

I just wasn't sure whether to get an AMD64 laptop (which is what my desktop is, and I love it) ... or the Pentium M. You guys make a great case for the M ... with the power and heat.

What do you guys think of these? Good deal or no?
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Postby Kifle » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:30 am

Silverast Rubicyn wrote:Thanks for the advice everyone, I really appreciate it. I was considering a Pentium M 2ghz with a seperate ATI video card in it, rather than having it integrated, as I know these aren't the best for gaming. I was looking for barebones, because I like to configure everything myself, and not get all the 'bloatware' places like Dell put on their machines (which also inflates price).

This is the site I was looking at earlier today, and was putting together some nice laptops for about $1500 (which is what I was looking to spend):

http://www.rjtech.com/nb15.htm

I just wasn't sure whether to get an AMD64 laptop (which is what my desktop is, and I love it) ... or the Pentium M. You guys make a great case for the M ... with the power and heat.

What do you guys think of these? Good deal or no?


They look ok, but I'd call them and make sure you aren't just getting the Pent M chip, but rather the whole centrino package. If it isn't the centrino setup, you wont see much difference at all in heat output between the two chips. Also, as a personal choice (and from most benchmark sites) ati cards are just going to hell these days. If you want bang for your buck, stick with nvidia until ati stops being lazy.

The most powerful setup on that site had the nvidia 6800 card in it, but I'm not sure if that is comperable to it's desktop counterpart. It's the only 256mb card they offer, and you're going to need it since most games really do require 256 video memory to run well (Yeah, you can play with 128, but be prepared for frustration). Also, you'll probably never need that DVD dual layer burner. Check to see if you can swap it out with a regular one to drop the price. If you're going to be staying in hotels w/o ethernet or have a wireless setup at home, the wifi card is good, but otherwise it's a waste of money. It comes stock in that system and doesn't look like you have the option to take it out. Probably a waste of money depending on your situation.

All in all, those packages don't look very customizable to me. They stuck in some stuff in there that should be optional but isn't. The 6800 only comes with a P4 (short battery life, high heat output, short hardware lifespan) or in a uniwill (who the fuck?) system. All the rest seem to be a bit weak in the video card range; however, my wife played WoW with a 6200 128mb card with 512mb of ram (I refused to play on that machine. It was choppy :(), so I'm not sure how much you can put up with.

If it were me, I'd call them and see if you can furthur customize the computers. I could see no reason you couldn't use the 6800 in a pentium M machine. I wouldn't go with any of the 128mb cards, and definately not the Ati (I'm no fanboy of nvidia. I absolutely loved the 9800pro and the 9700 series was great). If you do, you're looking at a system that wont be able to play the games that are out now very great, and the games that are coming (get ready to see 512mb video memory as a recommendation soon) are going to play like ass. In short, hold out for something you'll have for years. Top of the line (or close to it) now means workable in a year and crappy in two. $1500 is no small amount of cash to throw away on something that will be out of date in a short period of time.

Seriously though, call them and find out what you can do. Get the system YOU want in the end and don't settle for something you dont need or want. GL man.

Edit:

Also, don't trust sites that list computers with 64mb video cards as "gaming" machines. That's some pretty underhanded shit. Most games REQUIRE 128mb of video memory (not shared) to run reliably on low settings with a decent framerate.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:37 pm

Kifle wrote:(get ready to see 512mb video memory as a recommendation soon) are going to play like ass. In short, hold out for something you'll have for years. Top of the line (or close to it) now means workable in a year and crappy in two. $1500 is no small amount of cash to throw away on something that will be out of date in a short period of time.


Read a few posts above too. Seriously, are you going to be playing WoW in 2 years? Something to think about.
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Postby Ruxur » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:53 pm

OH NOES! a laptop that is customizeable? dell will have a hissy.

they want you to throw away and replace every few years.


i havent looked at the tech docs for laptop cpu's. I know the pentium M runs pretty cool, but is generally thought of as cpu lite. Its design is to increase battery life while still being as robust a processor as it can be. the AMD turion 64 would be my chip of choice, simply because of my love of AMD chips. I would check into benchmark tests of the turion vs the pentium m (btw quit saying centrino, its just a pentium m with integrated wireless) and go from there. Also i would look into dell's XPS version of laptops. Yes i know that dell sucks balls these days, but from what ive seen thier high end is still reasonably good but thier low end is gutter trash.

and to vaprak, ASUS k8 (939) mainboards + AMD 64 939 = stability, every time. I have even sold the asrock (asus bargian) dualstat939 board as kind of an intro to gaming machine (with a 3700+ san deigo and a evga geforce 6600 pcie graphics card). I have had nothing but success with asus + amd products, and have found that using strickly intel products cuts you off from some really cpu's (cough AMD X2)
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Postby Kifle » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:28 pm

Dalar wrote:
Kifle wrote:(get ready to see 512mb video memory as a recommendation soon) are going to play like ass. In short, hold out for something you'll have for years. Top of the line (or close to it) now means workable in a year and crappy in two. $1500 is no small amount of cash to throw away on something that will be out of date in a short period of time.


Read a few posts above too. Seriously, are you going to be playing WoW in 2 years? Something to think about.


Lol, I have no idea what you're trying to say :)

Rux - Yeah, I know centrino isn't just the cpu. I thought it also meant something along the lines of chipset as well, but I don't know much about Intel stuff. I could probably look it up real quick, but I'm lazy.

Also, how hot does that AMD chip run? My biggest worry buying a laptop would be heat which is why I'd choose the Pentium M. And since most games aren't really that cpu intensive (rather RAM and video card) I'd rather have a bit less power with less heat coming from the cpu.
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Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

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Postby Ruxur » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:56 pm

kif- im running the x2 4400+ toledo
im overclocked from 2.2 ghz to 2.8 ghz, using the stock cooler im at 38C

plenty cool if you ask me. Clocking from 2.2 to 2.8 is also very stable, it has yet to hang on me in the 2 months ive had it.

if you want me to go on a rant sometime, ask me about my 2 evga7800gtx graphics cards in SLi (droooool)
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Postby Kifle » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:11 pm

Ruxur wrote:kif- im running the x2 4400+ toledo
im overclocked from 2.2 ghz to 2.8 ghz, using the stock cooler im at 38C

plenty cool if you ask me. Clocking from 2.2 to 2.8 is also very stable, it has yet to hang on me in the 2 months ive had it.

if you want me to go on a rant sometime, ask me about my 2 evga7800gtx graphics cards in SLi (droooool)


The toledo is a completely differnet core than the one put in laptops :) I mean, can you compare the temps on an oc'd prescott to those of the pentium M? My old newcastle core 3000+ ran at around 36c oc'd to around 2.25ghz while my san diego runs at roughly 38 stock. And temps in laptops mean so much more than desktops given the small space and lack of airflow.

BTW, if you ever want to trade me your gtx's for my gt I'd be more than willing :)
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

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Postby Vaprak » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:25 pm

Behold! Centrino Duo! - http://intel.com/products/centrino/duo/ad.htm?iid=HMPAGE+Sub_06ww01b_R


Review -
http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=2663


Longer battery life than previous Centrinos and more power. Yay.
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Postby Ruxur » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:08 pm

wow, its time to buy a new laptop, good dig vaprak
Cofen group-says 'wtf, why am i missing a cursed khanjari?'

Alendar group-says 'i r rednek i can only afford the monitor i have mud on and the broken monitor under it'

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Postby Dalar » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:41 pm

Sorry, I was agreeing w/ kifle. Should wait until there are upgradeable video cards in laptops. If there are already, then oops.
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Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:02 pm

It's funny you posted that Vaprak, because right after I saw your post I saw this:

http://www.slickdeals.net/#p6930

Too bad I don't have my income tax refund now or I'd get it :P

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