Help no longer needed, thanks :)

Archived discussion from Toril-2.
Yarash
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Help no longer needed, thanks :)

Postby Yarash » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:07 am

Thank you all for your assistance :) I am no longer seeking advisement on this matter.
Last edited by Yarash on Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:15 am

It sounds like you could go to the local hospital and volunteer in the peds or special needs areas. You'll find most all the women and student nurses are very compassionate. So, if you are feeling socially lacking, or awkward - whatever, these type woman are very cool due to the field they are doing. Now that I've worked at the hospital for quite awhile, and on trips to the other ones for my little guy, I've discovered this is very consistant. At least I hope that works for you.

Another place that's easy to get to meet women is again, volunteering at the local physical rehab centers for children. Especially Easter Seals or some type agency like that. Hrm, single moms pretty often too, if you wanted. Regardless, it teaches you humility to work with special needs so it may help you understand chicks better :P
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Postby ssar » Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:54 am

Consider/look into some of the following:

Try & find, in a relatively handy location to your area, a group/sporting club/hobby that interests you and look into joining/getting into some, e.g.

Sport - tennis, squash, basketball, table tennis, volleyball, martial arts, etc.
Hobbies - cards, darts, hiking, bicycling, photography, art
Dog training, walking
Scouts, Summer Camps, Outdoor Adventuring, Caveing, Climbing

You might like to hook up with some similar-aged family and go out/do some cool things together - you may find that this opens up other opportunities to mix with/meet new people etc.
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Postby Pril » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:00 pm

Mike,

Also try to find a job it's always easier to date when you have money and your self esteem tends to be higher when you're working too. So figure out what kind of work you like to do. Also based on the fact that you said that all you've done is played these games do you know what hobbies YOU enjoy. When looking for someone who likes the same stuff as you you need to know what things you like.
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Postby Jhorr » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:02 pm

I would advise against trying to meet people in online chat rooms. There's just so much negative press lately about that.

That being said, I do know several people who met their spouse through online dating services. You could always give that a try.
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Postby Zabam » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:16 pm

Two blocks uphill from Cannery Row is the Monterey Brewing Company. Go there on Friday or Saturaday night after 10 PM.
Look for drunk chicks.
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Postby alendar » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:21 pm

there is always hookers

look at richard gere... he was rich and had to pay women....

unlike Pril who is poor and has to pay women with food stamps...
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Postby Nilan » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:10 pm

hi hi bro,

Do those things we chatted about last night. It'll work.

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Postby Shar » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:15 pm

Geez. Coming here for legitimate help is not easy. I'm quite sure the sarcastic answers are exactly what he's looking for!!!!


Thilindel's suggestion is a good one, but I'm always pro volunteer work. Not only do you meet lots of people, you get to better your community while bringing yourself out of your shyness shell at the same time. All kinds of places accept volunteer workers. I'd start at the local hospital or community center and ask what they need. Be open to what they say and be careful. This isn't always an easy task to take on and you may end up more emotionally invested than you envisioned after only a brief period of time.

Securing employment may be easier said than done, however it is something extremely important especially if you are looking for a cash flow to assure your ability for an out-of-home social experience. I know you are a talented guy but that doesn't mean it won't be hard to do. If you simply can't find work, start looking in other fields or places.

Online dating services like eharmony.com (which would be my choice) or match.com can offer you social interaction first without having to leave your computer with the promise of tangible social activity if both parties agree. I think it important to tell you to *avoid chatroom relationships.* I can't stress that enough. I'd say that 95% of the people inside a "singles" style chat room are only there to talk big and act nothing like themselves. If you want a real friendship, be it a long term one or not, start with truth and honesty. Eharmony.com can't promise you that their patrons are honest, but they do strive for it. I know several people irl who have had success on varying levels using both eharmony and match.com.

Above all else, I'd like to tell you to be confident. Lose the insecurity, even if it means faking the self-assuredness for a while. As long as you come across as happy, confident and self secure (which aren't the same thing) chances are you'll; 1) generally be happier with your life, even w/o someone and 2) meet people who are in the same state of mind as you which leads to healthier longer relationships of all kinds.

I restated a few things that others have, but they are good advice. Good luck Yarash :)
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Postby avak » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:20 pm

IMO, myspace is beyond lame....especially if you are trying to meet people.

Pril had the best advice; get a job! It is the perfect atmosphere to meet people because you are 'forced' to be around each other in a no-pressure environment (in regards to relationships anyway). You tend to get to know people very well and usually have great friends out of the deal.

If I was starting from scratch, that is most definitely what I would do. Find a job with a fun atmosphere and plenty of employees (ie not a small office with you and one other person!).

Side benefit to jobs...money for spending on future girlfriend!
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Postby nosef » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:28 pm

Hi Mike
I agree that finding a job would be the best for you. However, if finding a job isn't feasible at the moment, or you simply do not want to, I would suggest going back to school. Not only is it easy to find, and interact with, people who have similar interests than you (if you study something you like), it will help you find a good job later on. I did, after an almost 10 year break , first finished high school, then college (where I met my girlfriend) and now I'm at university (and moving in with my girlfriend in July). I don't know how old you are but I wouldn't worry about that. I myself am in my thirties and I see plenty of people older than me in my classes. If going back to school full time isn't feasible either, I suggest just taking a single class in something you like. Your local paper should be full of courses you can take.
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:01 am

College... start out at Community College, more older women, or divorcees, instead of girls fresh out of high school. If you're into science fiction then look for your local science fiction fanbase, if you're into medieval stuff then the local SCA... each one has TONS of women desperately trying to attract a man.

Dance lessons. Seriously. 9 out of 10 women who are taking dance lessons are single and looking.

I'm not trying to be demeaning, but if you don't work, or you live at home with your parents, give up the idea of any kind of "relationship" with any but the absolute flakiest of the crop. Stick with trying to enrich your life in other ways, including hobbies, a job, independence, self-respect, and friends will follow, as well as friends of a more intimate nature.

No woman wants a child to support, and no woman wants to compete with some guy's mom.
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Postby muma » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:32 am

ok i would recommend taking martial arts (even tho that would be mostly guys, but a few chicks), or uh ... take more college classes? i can't think of anything else right now.
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Postby muma » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:43 am

Shar wrote:

Above all else, I'd like to tell you to be confident. Lose the insecurity, even if it means faking the self-assuredness for a while. As long as you come across as happy, confident and self secure (which aren't the same thing) chances are you'll; 1) generally be happier with your life, even w/o someone and 2) meet people who are in the same state of mind as you which leads to healthier longer relationships of all kinds.

I restated a few things that others have, but they are good advice. Good luck Yarash :)


i just wanted to make that part bold. it's true

also i thought, don't go to some of these social places, and make it your goal to just seek women, because if you don't think about looking for a gf, then maybe you will be more relaxed around women, and you can just get to know them, slowly (well i guess this is relative), the more you know a woman, say, one you like, and the more she knows you, the more comfortable she will be w/you too. anybody know what i mean?
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Postby Lathander » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:15 am

Biggest thing with rejection is that every "no" gets you closer to "yes". Don't look at it as a bad thing, if anything, the "no's" will help you with your pitch.

Here are some ideas for you:

If you favorite radio station is doing an event, go to that event. Most likely, folks that go will be similar to you and it should be a rich environment for ladies, hopefully.

I'm assuming you're over 21, so I'd try to bar scene as well. Get a nice outfit, shave and look good before you go. Make an effort to talk to ladies and even buy a drink or two for them. Once again, the no's just refine your pitch to get you closer to "yes".

For more practice, go to a couple of strip clubs. This is to work on the ole pitch in a target rich environment. If you are chatting with them, and they look bored, then don't talk about what you're talking about again. :) Just be judicious with the singles and don't go dropping alot of cash.

Volunteer at an animal shelter. This shows you are a caring and sensitive guy and chicks love that. Anything you can do to look strong but sensitive is the way to go.

The job thing is probably pretty big though. You might be able to find an insecure girl that will support you, but it doesn't sound like that is what you are looking for.

I know a number of folks that use the online dating stuff. You can meet some really nice folks and some really freaky, in a good way, folks on these. What the heck, might as well try it.

If you are looking for upright ladies, start going to church and young adult events there. Once again, modify the pitch for the target audience.

The important thing is to just get out into real life if you want to meet someone. They don't know you exist unless you advertise yourself out there. The confidence thing will come in time, but just enjoy making the occasional slipup in rapping with ladies. Heck, when you mess up, laugh and tell them you feel silly. This makes it look like you are not using a script and looks spontaneous.

Just some ideas,
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Postby Maedor » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 am

Pril wrote:Mike,

Also try to find a job it's always easier to date when you have money and your self esteem tends to be higher when you're working too. So figure out what kind of work you like to do. Also based on the fact that you said that all you've done is played these games do you know what hobbies YOU enjoy. When looking for someone who likes the same stuff as you you need to know what things you like.


Rule #1 in dating:

DON'T TAKE RELATIONSHIP ADVICE FROM COFEN!!

Rule #2 in dating:

DON'T FORGET RULE #1

If you abide by those 2 rules, yer pretty much golden!
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Postby Kifle » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:00 am

#1. Like a lot have said already, get a job. Unless you are a very good looking man or a very very good talker, this is just going to be a must -- even if you do take the college route. No girl, like ashiwi said, wants to support a man unless you have the two qualities previously mentioned and you happen upon the right girl. You need money to treat a woman how most women want to be treated during the first few months of the relationship (and most times after that). You can do some nifty things on a very tight budget. Avoid movies as they are expensive and you don't get to talk; however, renting movies is one of my favorites. It's cheap, intimate, and sometimes you get introduced to movies you wouldn't normally see and might end up liking. A rental date can cost as low as 10-15 dollars. To make it real nice and cheap, cook her dinner (pasta meals are cheap and impressive).

Also, with a job you can meet different people. Quite a few of my dates have been work related. Now, if you plan on dating somebody at work, DO NOT BECOME FRIENDS WITH THEM! Sure, you can chit chat, but stay away from the buddy-zone. Do what you can to communicate but keep any sexual tension alive and well. As soon as the "he's a guy, I'm a girl -- wonder if we'll ever have sex" thoughts are removed from her mind, the chances are, you wont get them back without alcohol and some extreme pimpatude. If you go for this, try getting a job that has girls either coming in as customers (pet stores are great for this) or jobs where girls your age work at (don't know your age, so I can't help with suggestions there).

#2 Your friends are a great asset in finding women. See if they know anybody. See if their friends who you don't know know anybody. Exhaust your options here until there is literally none left. Go as far down the line as possible. Chances are, they know a single girl your age; and, depending how far down the chain she is, there is a good chance you will have common interests. Also, since you know the same people, getting to know each other will be less stressful on both of your ends because you will have more things to initially talk about and you can remove a lot of the "how often should I see them at first" by going to friends houses or events they plan such as parties and shit.

The bad thing about this move is that if things don't work out, they can get very ugly and you might lose a friend or two (very worst case scenerio).

#3. Bars. Just like in the 40 yr old virgin, going out on dates with low expectation bar whores is a great confidence booster which will help you get somebody you want to have a real relationship later on. Now, I'm not saying go out and be a whore yourself, I'm just saying get some numbers and take them out once or twice. Chances are, you wont find anybody worth taking to see your mother -- or would let use your shower in the morning, but they are there for confidence. Without confidence, hardly any worthwhile woman will be interested in you (unless she gets to know you which usually leads to the buddy-zone).

#4. Online dating. Pretty self explanitory. As previously stated, myspace is shit. It's mostly populated by emo tards and attention whores. Stay very far away. Go after the reputable sights listed earlier in the thread if you want something serious. Again, to attract anyone worthwhile here, you will probably need stable income and a future. I'd assume most people on those sites have their sights set on possible marriage. I will again refer you to ashiwi's statement.

Side note: I have seen others say something about vonlunteering places. Well, you don't have a job, so if you are going to work, work for money. I know volunteering is nice and the girls you will meet there are probably kind, but lets be honest -- 1) you aren't going to do it anyway and 2) you need money if you have no job. Selling blood is no longer an option, and selling sperm is a hard business to break into (god knows I've tried). If you truely want to volunteer anything, donate blood. The waiting room is nice for chit-chat and if you get lucky, you might be sitting next to some cute girl while you both donate (donating platlets takes longer, so try to do that if you can -- it will give more time for different people to sit next to you and provides more time for longer conversations).

#5. Conventions. Pretty self-explanitory. Tons of people with enough interest in something you're interested in that they go to a convention. Problem here is finding local people. I'd personally leave this as a last option.

Everything else I can think of really requires a boat-load of charisma and confidence to pull off, and it doesn't seem like you are really ready for it, so work on these and other suggestions in this thread. You can definately meet somebody if you follow most people's advice here. GL.
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Postby Yarash » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:52 am

Thanks :)
Last edited by Yarash on Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:55 am

Volunteering at hospitals is the best way to get your foot in the door. Hospitals, as a national average, hire less than 2% of the people that apply. First off, it's an ungodly and not-well-known bonus. Hospitals aren't allowed to hire someone with a criminal history. At least a violent one. For white collar crimes, there is some leeway on that. When you talk to a lady and mention the volunteer/position at the hospital, just casually say it makes you feel good to have been hired because you know you're a good person (quote the hire rate at that point.) and then that it furthers your interest in helping others :P

So not only are hospitals great for having good jobs and giving one self-esteem, most hospitals I've seen will pay or reimb you to further your education. Where I work, you attend school, and if you get 'B's or better, they will pay you for the course you took. I intend to finally become a practitioner, considering I've only had to pay for books so far. The trick is, when you receive ..for example, a bachelor's degree, they quit paying (this is how most hospitals do it) for sub-four year courses. What you do is 'almost' graduate, then take lateral courses in language or what not. I'm furthering my germanic studies free haha. Anyway, good luck!
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Postby Kifle » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:23 am

Yarash wrote:
Kifle wrote:#1. ...You can do some nifty things on a very tight budget. Avoid movies as they are expensive and you don't get to talk; however, renting movies is one of my favorites. It's cheap, intimate, and sometimes you get introduced to movies you wouldn't normally see and might end up liking. A rental date can cost as low as 10-15 dollars. To make it real nice and cheap, cook her dinner (pasta meals are cheap and impressive).


Good stuff. The position I would get would be entry level, so money will be tight.


Heh, well, if you ever need ideas as far as cheap dates go, lemme know. I once dated a girl for 3 months (dating and the whole nine) on around 150 dollars.



Yarash wrote:
Kifle wrote:Now, if you plan on dating somebody at work, DO NOT BECOME FRIENDS WITH THEM!


I find this very confusing. I thought more serious relationships would have started from friendships?

Let me explain my ideas and you can tell me how realistic this is. Step 1) Job hunting. Step 2) Maybe possible while job hunting, but certainly afterward, find a lady friend or friends I can do activities with, such as walking, hiking, photography, and any hobbies and activities I may pick up by taking classes. The relationship would be a comfortable friendship. Either one of us would be able to say "Hey, want to go bike riding?" and the other person would say "sure!". Step 3) Maybe after 6-12 months I'd know someone well enough that I could feel comfortable saying anything to the person. Time spent together would be more intimate. We would not be interested in relationships with any other people. Step 4) Maybe a year after that, by then we would know everything about each other. By this time it should be obvious that I want to spend the rest of my life with this person.

Ok, so I'm sure at least several part of that are a fantasy, but that's how I'd like it to go down. I'm sure the timetable is unrealistic as well, though it would be reset after each time I'd get dumped. So I'm thinking this is more of a five year plan. So I'm looking to put together a roadmap to meet these objectives, or change my objectives if completely unrealistic.


Yes, they do start as friendships, but I'm speaking more in terms of good friends. You'll have a very hard time persuing a woman you are good friends with. The trick is to be somebody they feel comfortable around without doing things outside of work (or where ever you meet this person). Become aquantances and then move directly into dating -- otherwise it can get complicated. Your representation of the friendship you have in mind seems somewhere inbetween aquaintance and good friend. And, while that may be managable as far as moving into a romantic relationship, it is harder than with an aquaintance. See, for most girls, once you start doing activities as friends and being the person she talks to about problems (which may well happen on those activities at times), you move furthur and furthur away from being a romantic possibility for her. You'd think that it would show you are compatible, but for some odd reason, it just hardly ever works out like that. But, then again, I'm only 26 and my life experiences and the things I've noticed over the years from other people may be isolated; but, I have also seen these examples generalized by the public and paroted by a lot of women over the years...

So, while it's good to get the girl to be comfortable with you (as far as those you meet in classes, work environment, etc.. -- those who are forced to be around you by circumstance), I would strongly encourage you to maintain certain boundries to your friendship until you see that the time is right to let your feelings known to the girl (this means asking out on a date -- never ever ever tell a girl you feel strongly for her or that you have "feelings" for her before you date... that usually creeps them out, makes you look desperate, or makes you look less of a man). Always keep in mind that women are attracted to confidence and a man with self-esteem (not arogance). Only later in the relationship is it wise to show your softer side (not to be confused with romantic side).

Yarash wrote:
Kifle wrote:Side note: I have seen others say something about vonlunteering places. Well, you don't have a job, so if you are going to work, work for money.


Well, I was thinking about that as well. But I think they are usually pretty flexible about how much time you can spend volunteering. During high school I volunteered at the library for two hours each week. Of course the less time spent, the fewer opportunities there are. But what I was thinking is, I could look for a volunteer position, a poor job (but easy to get hired), and a good job all at the same time. The volunteer position could be shortened or scrapped if more time is needed. The poor job could be dropped when a good job is found. What do you think?

Thanks a lot, Kifle :)


That is a very very good idea. I'm still not sold on the whole volunteering idea, but different strokes for different folks. I just know it's much easier and less stressful to date a woman with a bit of extra scratch in my pocket. I do like the idea of finding the temporary, low-paying job as you are working towards finding career opportunities. Just remember, the closer you are to self-sufficiency the more confident and attractive you become. Women our age (I'm assuming your either my age or older) are looking for a man like I'm describing. I'm not saying they are gold diggers, but women, on a primitive level at least, are attracted naturally to somebody who can care for and protect them. The trick is to show them without making the message too strong... it makes it look like that's all you have to offer -- and any woman worth keeping is not going to like that.


Good luck, man.
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Postby Pril » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:36 am

Mike also once you do find a girl you want to hang out with/possibly date:

Rule #1: be chivalrous

I was brought up to open doors etc for girls and you'd be shocked at how surprised a girl is when you open a car door for her or pull a chair out at a restaurant.
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--------------------------------------------------------

Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
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Postby Kifle » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:23 pm

Pril wrote:Mike also once you do find a girl you want to hang out with/possibly date:

Rule #1: be chivalrous

I was brought up to open doors etc for girls and you'd be shocked at how surprised a girl is when you open a car door for her or pull a chair out at a restaurant.


Lol, some girls hate that though... It's a weird day and age we live in :( I used to do it as well, but I've learned to do it one or two times and guage their reaction. My wife appreciates regular door openings, but hates the car door being opened for her -- don't ask me why.
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Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

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Postby Lilira » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:05 pm

Yarash..

To find local people in your area interested in the same things you are, try Meetup.com.

When you enter your zip code it will give you a list of groups in your area along with the interests they focus around. (Not a dating web site.. its for hobbies etc.)

We've moved twice in the past 3 years, and this is how we've found our new Tabletop gaming groups. They have groups that focus on everything from D&D to umm.. sci-fi, to Fantasy, interests in certain actors, movies, religions, you name it...

You can sign up for most groups, (set up a hotmail or Yahoo to have emails from the group sent to), and get a feel for people by perusing their profiles and the group message boards before showing up to a meetup. My advice, until you get to know some of the people in the group, stay away from meetups at people's homes. That will get you out with people that share your interests, though not necessarily the dating scene.

I would focus on getting a general group of friends for camaraderie. You'd be surprised how much that alone can help self-esteem by simply getting you OUT of the house!!!

The SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) has a website at www.sca.org. You can go there to find out information for your local group and pop in on a meeting.

This ended up being WAAAAAY longer than I wanted, but good luck!!

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hey

Postby muma » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:13 pm

everyone is giving good advice on here. i know i already said it, and so did mogr , but i think martial arts would be good not only to make friends, but also to build your confidence as well. it will help you tone your muscles, and you will be able to kick ass! if a woman knows you are a martial artist, she will be more attracted to you. then you can beat up any guy who messes with her! but seriously, martial arts usually advertise themselves too by saying they will build self esteem and confidence. and it's true. i've taken martial arts. i miss it.

just don't take tae kwan do because that is not for real fighting. try muay thai kickboxing, or brazilian jujitsu, or basically anything not tae kwan do.

the only thing is i guess you would need a decent paying job at least in order to take martial arts.

also any kind of exercise will calm and relax you. relaxation is good when you are telling her how you feel.....
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Re: hey

Postby Kifle » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:15 pm

muma wrote:everyone is giving good advice on here. i know i already said it, and so did mogr , but i think martial arts would be good not only to make friends, but also to build your confidence as well. it will help you tone your muscles, and you will be able to kick ass! if a woman knows you are a martial artist, she will be more attracted to you. then you can beat up any guy who messes with her! but seriously, martial arts usually advertise themselves too by saying they will build self esteem and confidence. and it's true. i've taken martial arts. i miss it.

just don't take tae kwan do because that is not for real fighting. try muay thai kickboxing, or brazilian jujitsu, or basically anything not tae kwan do.

the only thing is i guess you would need a decent paying job at least in order to take martial arts.


Unfortunately, with all her martial arts training, poor leah lost to good ol' greco-roman wrestling.
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Postby Osheara » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:41 pm

Lol, some girls hate that though... It's a weird day and age we live in :( I used to do it as well, but I've learned to do it one or two times and guage their reaction. My wife appreciates regular door openings, but hates the car door being opened for her -- don't ask me why.


This opinion probably is going to vary based on the security/independance of the woman also. Based on many people who I know...the type of women who appreciate it are the type that are more willing to consider a more insecure man, or at least notice the fact he is just insecure and not trying to be a jerk.

I highly recommend do it regardless because even if whatever woman you find, she is going to be surprised because it is so rarely done these days and it shows that you have manners and respect for her. If the woman doesn't like it, if she rules you off because of it, then she doesn't have the understanding needed to be in a relationship with an unexperienced dater and you need to move on to another person. If she doesn't like it and lets you know but isn't judgemental about it...then that's just a preferance, probably a bad experience of some sort in the past. In general, most good women will take notice of it and have some form of respect for you just because of seemingly little things like manners.

Heck, if you want to take it a step further...get a manners book (yes they are out there) if you feel the need :P It will help in a hundred ways if you've never really had that growing up and will help everyone respect you, not just a potential date.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:01 pm

The whole point of doing the 'little things' for a woman is to let her know that you'll actually be there for the 'big things.'

After all, if you're not willing to help her with her bags, she will feel that seed of doubt when it comes to helping her with the real baggage in life.
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Postby Vaprak » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:43 am

But in regards to being confident...that is a LOT easier said than done. I don't think confidence can be faked either. I just mentioned to someone that I don't think I could just go up to a stranger and start up a conversation. There is no pretending about it, if you go up to the person, that is confidence right there. I have very little though. As an example, for the woman I mentioned earlier who I messaged, it took me three days before I managed to talk to her. This is probably the most important thing I need to work on, but it's also the hardest.


I personally don't have dubious amounts of confidence either, but I have improved on this front tenfold in the past few years. I started by just saying "hello" to people as I met them. Didn't matter if it was male or female or where I was. Could be walking down the ailse of the grocery store. Just say "hi" to people as you meet them in the aisles. It seems so silly at first, but eventually you'll be so used to doing it that you won't even be taken off guard when someone says "hi" back to you and maybe even starts a conversation.. Even if people look at you wierd, it doesn't matter. Little rejections really make no difference at all, but its hard to see that until you have your first success. Even the little success of having someone smile back at you when you say hello to them will help a boatload with confidence.

I do agree 100% on finding a job being a necesary evil in the pursuit of any social life btw.

Also, going to a bar isn't a terrible idea. Generally people will be fairly friendly. Find a small bar and go right about quitting time on a Friday afternoon. There will usually be quite a few working-class people there enjoying a couple of drinks and chatting while they wind down from the week at work. Put some quarters down on a pool table or join in a dart game. It's a great way to meet people I've found, no matter where you go. Also can get a feel for where the jobs are in your area and try to feel a few folks out for where some work might be. Most of my friends are either remnants from high school/college or I've met them at work or a bar. Some are more aquantenances than otherwise, but I have met several really great people at the local pub.

Also, consider taking up some sports/recreation leagues. Most towns have stuff like softball, sand volleyball, 8-ball, dart, basketball, flag football, etc leagues that are fairly inexpensive to play in and even if you don't meet any chicks it doesn't hurt to network with others your age. Even if you're not much of a sports type of guy you can usually find a fairly non-serious team to join.

If you have a dog, take it to the park on a nice day. If you don't have a dog, ask a neighbor if it would be ok to take their dog for a walk and go the a park.

If you have the funds join a gym or fitness club.

I'll also reiterate: stay away from myspace, unless you are doing research on stupid/deranged/emo people from a psychological or sociological standpoint.

From my personal experience a lot of my issues with being social revolved around not being able to "read" people and such. there are books and videos available to help you read people's body language. over 80% of what we say is said with body language, 15% is through tone of voice, and only 5% is the actual words that are used. If you want some specific titles PM me.
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Re: hey

Postby Oghma » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:16 am

Kifle wrote:
muma wrote:everyone is giving good advice on here. i know i already said it, and so did mogr , but i think martial arts would be good not only to make friends, but also to build your confidence as well. it will help you tone your muscles, and you will be able to kick ass! if a woman knows you are a martial artist, she will be more attracted to you. then you can beat up any guy who messes with her! but seriously, martial arts usually advertise themselves too by saying they will build self esteem and confidence. and it's true. i've taken martial arts. i miss it.

just don't take tae kwan do because that is not for real fighting. try muay thai kickboxing, or brazilian jujitsu, or basically anything not tae kwan do.

the only thing is i guess you would need a decent paying job at least in order to take martial arts.


Unfortunately, with all her martial arts training, poor leah lost to good ol' greco-roman wrestling.


You just used it as an excuse to grope her.
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Postby Yarash » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:31 am

Thanks :)
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Postby Kifle » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:00 pm

Yarash wrote:The pool and darts idea at a bar is something I could do too... What do you mean by putting quarters down on the table though?

Thanks Vaprak :)


In a bar, when you play pool and there is somebody else already playing, you put your quarters (however many it takes to play one game) on the edge of the pool table near the coin slot. This basically says you're playing the winner of the next game. If there are more quarters already there, you put your quarters on the left side of the quarters which are already on the table and this puts you in line to play the winner of however many games there are in front of you (two sets of quarters = two games -- you would be the third in line).
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Postby Pril » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:29 pm

Osheara wrote:
Lol, some girls hate that though... It's a weird day and age we live in :( I used to do it as well, but I've learned to do it one or two times and guage their reaction. My wife appreciates regular door openings, but hates the car door being opened for her -- don't ask me why.


This opinion probably is going to vary based on the security/independance of the woman also. Based on many people who I know...the type of women who appreciate it are the type that are more willing to consider a more insecure man, or at least notice the fact he is just insecure and not trying to be a jerk.


*ponder* How is opening a door for a girl or being chivalrous a sign of insecurity? So confused.
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Postby Osheara » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:29 pm

I'm not saying the guy is insecure if he does that...I'm saying the women who appreciate it the most tend to be the type who can more easily have a relationship with a man who is insecure or at least isn't afraid to show some of his insecurities...since he was saying he is insecure, it's describing the sort of women and actions that draw those women that would like or handle that sort of relationship. There are some women who are extremely independant and would be insulted by something like that...they tend to prefer someone with very high self esteme to match their own.
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Postby Pril » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:17 pm

Osheara wrote:I'm not saying the guy is insecure if he does that...I'm saying the women who appreciate it the most tend to be the type who can more easily have a relationship with a man who is insecure or at least isn't afraid to show some of his insecurities...since he was saying he is insecure, it's describing the sort of women and actions that draw those women that would like or handle that sort of relationship. There are some women who are extremely independant and would be insulted by something like that...they tend to prefer someone with very high self esteme to match their own.


Ahhh ok was confused as i said makes sense now.
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Postby Birile » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:35 pm

Very interesting thread.

What this all boils down to, Mike, is building your confidence (and all things related). This isn't really just about helping you find a relationship, it's about helping you be successful in the game of Life, really. The interesting thing about all of these things is that they're all related to one another--they each feed off of each other, or hold each other back. Jobs, relationships, self-confidence, friends, happiness...

It takes a lot of work to go from a standstill to getting up any sort of momentum, but just understand that once you get going in one area of your life, the going will get easier all-around.

I don't have any extremely specific advice--mainly because others have already given just about all the advice there is to give--but if I had to choose, I would say landing a job should really be your #1 priority. I honestly would not go the volunteering route simply for the fact that it will take away from your efforts to find a paying job. Once you land a job and find that you have extra time on your hands, absolutely go for the volunteerism.

While you're looking for a job (preferably a good job, or one in your field or... something): do the social networking that has been mentioned earlier (I know you're already doing that!). As you have already seen, the simple effort of making these strides has made you feel happier and more alive--keep at it. It's amazing what a person's state of mind can do for them! Also, if you have certification or a degree or some other sort of qualification in a specific area you should look for some sort of trade organization in your area to join. There is generally a fee if it's a recognized organization, but the relatively nominal fee can lead to social and professional networking that will pay remarkable dividends later on--you're killing two birds with one stone if you do this.

Lastly, with all of these activities that have been suggested... leave some free time available to look for a good job (and I emphasize good here, because while finding a job at McD's now is a start, you don't want to stagnate there) and to spend time with a possible mate if and when you find her!

Anyway, there was probably no real advice here, but thought I'd share anyway.

Good luck, Mike!
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Postby Dalar » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:08 pm

I banged two chicks I met off craigslist. I'm not kidding.
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Postby Shar » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:25 pm

To clarify what I meant by "faking" confidence. Even if you loathe approaching *anyone* for any reason, you have to realize that sooner or later, if you are going to go on a date with anyone, you'll have to speak to them. How do you do that when you are petrified of it? You start by borrowing against future confidence. Pretending to be comfortable doing the very small things can earn you the boost you may need to actually *be* comfortable doing them. Until you use a skill you haven't mastered, how on earth will you learn it? You fake the tiny steps between social horror and comfort.

For starters, try just making eye contact and smiling to all kinds of people no matter where you're at. Bar, club, grocery store, work, etc. You may not feel like doing it at all, you may just want to stay inside your own shell, but thats where the faking it comes into play. It is probably the easiest way of getting other people to just notice your existence! But please, remember to smile. If you skip that part of the eye contact phase of confidence building, you'll look more like creepy stalker guy than nice approachable guy ...which would ... not be beneficial. :P

Once you do this several times and get smiles in return on a few of them, you'll start to find that it isn't at all hard to do and in fact will make you feel better! This will affect not only your moods but also your general feeling of well being, which in turn will directly affect your confidence. If you are happy (or content as a smile would indicate) and aren't afraid of strangers seeing it, you will feel it on the inside and will show on the outside. Smiling is infectious. It shows others that you aren't afraid to just be happy and gives them the social permission /freedom to be/do the same around you.

Our society sometimes makes it more than a little scary to just look at another w/o feeling some sort of inferiority to them but don't worry. Start here. As someone with a former fear of being noticed due to very low self-confidence, I can tell you that this works. Once you pass the stage where the smiling eye contact feels comfortable, you can add to it small things like a head nod or a simple hi. After this phase you can do other things like *gasp* approach people you are interested in finding out more about with much more ease!!... although admittedly, that part will still be hard.

Anyway, I hope that dispelled the fog surrounding the "fake it" comment. :)
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:33 pm

Dalar wrote:I banged two chicks I met off craigslist. I'm not kidding.


After 10 minutes of lookin at chicks (and guys to be fair) on craigslist, I wouldn't be broadcasting that....
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:00 am

Tabletop gaming? Are you kidding?

I'm not saying women don't participate, but don't be surprised if you go and find ten guys to every chick. The typical scenario has a dozen guys and one or two chicks, who happen to be the girlfriends or wives of guys who are playing.

Dance lessons... depends on the type of woman you think you'd be interested in. Like country girls? The obvious answer is the Two Step. I don't care for country dancing that much. I prefer something with a little more partner-to-partner connection. Swing dancing with a good partner is one of the most fun things you will ever experience. The Rhumba is sex standing up, with a flair. The Salsa is kind of a cross between the two. Latin dancing is becoming very popular, so you really can't go wrong with it, but if you're looking for a more mature woman I'd go with some of the more classical steps.

So many men think dancing is silly, and they won't even give it a try, but a man who can dance really well never lacks a partner.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:44 am

Tanji Smanji wrote:
Dalar wrote:I banged two chicks I met off craigslist. I'm not kidding.


After 10 minutes of lookin at chicks (and guys to be fair) on craigslist, I wouldn't be broadcasting that....


dunno where you live but one was about 5'4 b cups and 5'1 d cup asians. was pretty cool.
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Postby Yarash » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:29 am

Thanks :)
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Postby Jenera » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:54 pm

Kifle wrote:
Pril wrote:Mike also once you do find a girl you want to hang out with/possibly date:

Rule #1: be chivalrous

I was brought up to open doors etc for girls and you'd be shocked at how surprised a girl is when you open a car door for her or pull a chair out at a restaurant.


Lol, some girls hate that though... It's a weird day and age we live in :( I used to do it as well, but I've learned to do it one or two times and guage their reaction. My wife appreciates regular door openings, but hates the car door being opened for her -- don't ask me why.


Lol, after being with Dranix for 5 years now, I still look at him weird when he opens doors, car doors, and pulls out a seat for me. No one had ever done that for me before in my life.
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Postby Ashiwi » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:42 am

I'll disagree with Osheara on this one. I've found that the women most vehemently opposed to a man being "chivalrous" toward them are the ones with the largest hangups and biggest esteem issues. They're the ones that feel the need to prove themselves more aggressively, that need to shout to the world that they may be women but they don't need men to do things for them, that protest the loudest. The women who are confident with themselves as both a person and as a woman don't make a gracious gesture any more, or any less, than it is.
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Postby Todrael » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:10 am

Yarash wrote:On a similar note, I'm also often in situations where someone will say something, and I don't know how to respond, so I say nothing at all. I was talking with a friend just a bit ago about this, and related a very relevant example. Last year I was doing some work for a store owner (who has me in every few months for a couple days), and during a conversation, a girl who worked there said that she liked me. As I remember, I had no idea how to respond, and said "okay" or "alright." She is 17, but had she been older, I would have blown a good opportunity. I'm not really sure how to deal with this though.


Ask a question. "What is it you like about me?" People love to be asked questions. One of the best ways to get a great deal of insight is to ask things like, "How do you feel about that?" Don't ask yes/no stuff... and above all, be interested in the answer. You can't fake interest, but you can give yourself the proper mindset to find interest in the people around you. Active listening skills are very important, which is where the questioning comes in.

Social skills are skills like any other - they can be taught, and learned. The best (only?) way to improve social skills is through practice. Time and effort spent being social with and around other people. The more time you spend at it, the better you'll become. It seems you've got the motivation, so keep that Action going - action leads to action, and momentum can carry you a long ways.
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Postby Raiwen » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:13 am

http://www.meetin.org/

I am an event planner for TampaBay, and I met a lot of people through this. It's not a dating site. It's not a business network. It's for people that either too busy to find friends, want to meet a new circle of friends, new to town, or just don't have a lot of friends.

During and after my divorce, my ex and I had a lot of mutual friends and I wasn't sure who I could trust. Some of our mutual friends stopped talking to both of us, some remained her friends and a few remained mine. However, I decided that I needed to meet new people.. expand my circle of friends I guess.

I'm not sure if your town is listed, but I bet you can find something similar. Volunteering is a great way to meet people, too.

Get out there. Have an adventure. The thing I've noticed the most is that it's easy to meet people and talk to them if you can relate to them or have a story to tell. Nothing creates stories like adventures :) (not mud related ones)
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:36 am

Try working out/exercising outdoors at parks. Set personal goals for your workout sessions, and exceed them. Getting in shape makes you happy and more confident, both admirable qualities in a mate. :)


And yeah... getting a job wouldn't hurt either.



Maybe kill 2 birds with one stone? Get a job at a gym! :)

g'luk!
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hey yarash

Postby muma » Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:36 pm

martial arts might cost you somewhere between $50-80/month. i don't know it depends on the place and how much you sign up for. try to get a good deal. the last time i took it i went for free because of some family deal. anyway, also you should keep us posted if something works out for you! like if you meet somebody.


also those nature pictures in the other post are beautiful. i love nature!!!! it is the best thing in the world.
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Postby Yarash » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:24 am

Thanks :)
Last edited by Yarash on Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Corth » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:29 am

Its a lot of progress, don't get me wrong, but I have to ask.. how does someone manage to reach adulthood without ever having established any social relationships (even presumably as a child) or had a job, etc. I mean.. it seems like you have been living in a fallout shelter your entire life. How does something like that happen?
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Postby Duna » Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:39 pm

He's a mudder Corth, that should explain all of it.
Mike, Watch yerself with the one that's jealous. If it's been stated that you are not dating, and you are just friends.. the one showing the jealousy might have come controll issues. I'm not saying they do, but becareful of it.
It's better to be a bit cautious than to find out the hard way ;)
and good luck :)
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