Man versus machine

Archived discussion from Toril-2.
Cirath
Sojourner
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 5:01 am

Man versus machine

Postby Cirath » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:27 am

You know, I thought my ipod had screwed up in every imaginable way over the years I have owned it, but it has yet to try to kill me.
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:53 am

Welcome to cheap battery construction -ville.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:41 pm

An attorney I do some work with actually has a similar case with an injury resulting from an Ipod. Heh.

It will never cease to amaze me the ways people can hurt themselves. I remember reading a case from the late 1800's in law school that had me LOLing in the library like I belonged in an institution. Some guy was in a small shack cleaning something or another for his boss in a container full of kerosene. It was winter, so he had a wood burning stove going. A rodent of some sort, I think a mouse, somehow gets into the kerosense, then escapes and runs underneath the stove. The mouse, at this point goes up in flames, and in its dying moments manages to run back to the kerosene and causes an inferno. Major injuries result, and the guy sued his employer.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
Cirath
Sojourner
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Cirath » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:39 pm

Corth wrote:The mouse, at this point goes up in flames, and in its dying moments manages to run back to the kerosene and causes an inferno. Major injuries result, and the guy sued his employer.


Something similar happened last winter. I saw a news story about a guy burning some leaves when a mouse got into the flames, caught fire, and ran into his house, causing it to catch fire.

The really sad part about the iPod thing, though, is that the guy didn't notice the flames until they were up to his chest.
moritheil
Sojourner
Posts: 4845
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 6:01 am

Postby moritheil » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:55 am

What, you posted that and didn't post this story from the same site?

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14298980/detail.html

Of the two, which would you rather people think long and hard on as they go through life?
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'
Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'
Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Vigis
Sojourner
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Postby Vigis » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:38 pm

moritheil wrote:What, you posted that and didn't post this story from the same site?

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14298980/detail.html

Of the two, which would you rather people think long and hard on as they go through life?


Mori,

I noticed this was in the Atlanta area. The chances are, the two men were trying to hi-jack the truck.

Atlanta has become a hotbed for hi-jacking trucks lately. A truck stop, I think it was a Pilot, recently shut its doors due to the ungodly number of hijackings occurring on its premises. They blamed the majority of them on gangs who were using prostitutes as scouts and drug addicts as trigger men. If you don't know any truck drivers, the vast majority of them will talk to just about anybody who shows and interest in listening (I think it comes from being in the truck 24 hours a day with a max of 1 other person to talk to) so the prostitutes just had to talk to the drivers to find out what they were hauling. Once they knew what was in the trailer, they'd relay the information. If the driver was lucky, he was not in the truck and it just disappeared. If he was unlucky, he was in the truck.

Without having any more details on the story you posted, my first thought is that it was a botched hi-jacking attempt by a couple of amateurs.
Nerox tells you 'Good deal, the other tanks I have don't wanna do it, and since your my special suicidal tank i figure you don't mind one bit!'

Alurissi tells you 'aren't you susposed to get sick or something and not beable to make tia so i can go? :P'
moritheil
Sojourner
Posts: 4845
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 6:01 am

Postby moritheil » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:21 pm

Aha. Interesting and unfortunate.
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'

Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'

Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Birile
Sojourner
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Albany, NY

Postby Birile » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:37 pm

Corth wrote:It will never cease to amaze me the ways people can hurt themselves.


Yeah. How dare people actually trust that an iPod battery won't catch fire.

Honestly, how in hell do you leap from an iPod catching fire to saying something about how people hurt themselves, insinuating it was the poor guy's fault? Granted, people do some stupid things (coughDarwinAwardscough), but I don't see how this specific example equates.
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Postby Sarvis » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:13 pm

It's easy when your worldview is that if anything bad happens to you it is because of your own choices. You're talking to a guy who thinks people should do their own medical research to make sure a drug is safe, after all.
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.

I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:21 pm

Sarvis wrote:You're talking to a guy who thinks people should do their own medical research to make sure a drug is safe, after all.


Considering how little effort goes into it, you should.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Postby Sarvis » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:36 pm

Yes, because I have the 8 years of medical school to do it effectively.
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.

I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
Ambar
Sojourner
Posts: 2872
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Our House in Va.
Contact:

Postby Ambar » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:02 pm

While I mostly agree people should be able to use bought items safely and free of worry, I also think people should be smarter than the products they use ..

IPOD battery = heat
Paper = fuel ..

mix the two long enough, add oxygen and you have a fire .. basic fire triangle I remember being taught in grade school

Odds are if the paper wasn't in his pocket, it would have been "ow thats hot, maybe I should turn it off for a while"

Debate all we want but this country is waaaaaaay too "sue happy"
"When a child is born, so is a grandmother."

-Italian Proverb
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Postby Sarvis » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:15 pm

Ambar wrote:While I mostly agree people should be able to use bought items safely and free of worry, I also think people should be smarter than the products they use ..

IPOD battery = heat
Paper = fuel ..

mix the two long enough, add oxygen and you have a fire .. basic fire triangle I remember being taught in grade school

Odds are if the paper wasn't in his pocket, it would have been "ow thats hot, maybe I should turn it off for a while"

Debate all we want but this country is waaaaaaay too "sue happy"


That's because corporations are waaaaaay too "who cares what happens after we get our money" happy. Keeping paper in your pocket is fairly common, so designing a device which is capable of igniting paper to be carried in your pocket just seems a bit careless.
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.

I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
Ambar
Sojourner
Posts: 2872
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Our House in Va.
Contact:

Postby Ambar » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:34 pm

And I'm spent :)
"When a child is born, so is a grandmother."



-Italian Proverb
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:17 pm

Birile,

While I said "It will never cease to amaze me the ways people can hurt themselves", I meant "It will never cease to amaze me the ways people can get hurt."

Forgive me for not precisely getting across what I meant.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Birile
Sojourner
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Albany, NY

Postby Birile » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:17 pm

Actually, I agree with Sarvis.

While this country is far too litigious (granted, I myself had sued someone last year for running me over--forgive my greed, but I was in pain), too many companies make far too much money before the lawsuits start rolling in. Thus, the amount of money they make on a faulty product far exceeds the money they had to pay out due to defects in their product which caused bodily harm. And that's only assuming someone sues them. And wins. In the end, it was a profit for them, and that's what matters to them. It's not a gamble, because either way, they've won.

Also, from what I remember of my Torts class in my first year of law school (okay, so it was 10 years ago), you CAN be held accountable for the stupidity of people who use your product (that is not to say that I think the guy in this specific scenario was stupid). While one would argue that someone should realize that an iPod battery will be hot and the unit shouldn't be placed in an enclosed space with a piece of paper, I would argue that the iPod should not be allowed to get that hot in the first place. That's a design fault more than anything. And, of course, this is assuming the paper had anything to do with causing/stoking the fire, which I'm not convinced of in the least.
Birile
Sojourner
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Albany, NY

Postby Birile » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:18 pm

Corth wrote:Birile,

While I said "It will never cease to amaze me the ways people can hurt themselves", I meant "It will never cease to amaze me the ways people can get hurt."

Forgive me for not precisely getting across what I meant.


Okay, cool. Thanks Corth!
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:26 pm

Ambar wrote:While I mostly agree people should be able to use bought items safely and free of worry, I also think people should be smarter than the products they use ..

IPOD battery = heat
Paper = fuel ..

mix the two long enough, add oxygen and you have a fire .. basic fire triangle I remember being taught in grade school

Odds are if the paper wasn't in his pocket, it would have been "ow thats hot, maybe I should turn it off for a while"

Debate all we want but this country is waaaaaaay too "sue happy"


Ambar, you're supposed to sue when your IPod catches on fire and burns you.

That is actually a time where you want to sue.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:35 pm

Sarvis wrote:Yes, because I have the 8 years of medical school to do it effectively.


Sarvis, you don't need any medical school to research the medications that you are prescribed. There is a wealth of laymen's references and resources available to the public both on and off line.

Furthermore, you can always seek a second opinion, or simply call another doctor who will often be willing to give you some short advice.

It really doesn't take all that much effort to plug in a drug's name into google. Well, unless you are illiterate - just get someone to read it for you.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
Cirath
Sojourner
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Cirath » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:10 pm

moritheil wrote:Of the two, which would you rather people think long and hard on as they go through life?


People get shot every day. It's not all that interesting. However, a guy setting himself on fire with an mp3 player is funny, so I am going to have to go with option A.

Because, like the song says: "It's schadenfreude making me feel glad that I'm not you."
Tanji Smanji
Sojourner
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:27 pm

moritheil wrote:What, you posted that and didn't post this story from the same site?

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14298980/detail.html

Of the two, which would you rather people think long and hard on as they go through life?



After living in Atlanta for several years, I can tell you that this would rank low on the radar. The amount of truck hi-jackings there is incredible, some truck-stops on 85 and 75 are paying for off-duty troopers to monitor them because its so rampant. Plus in an average day in Atlanta and the outskirts there are dozens of shootings, robberies and killings. I definitely don't miss the crime there, almost feel safe driving through ocean view since coming back home. :p
How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.

Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'

Corth ASSOC:: 'up to you.. need a ranger, but if you want to afk i can probably find someone else'
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Ashiwi » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:03 am

teflor the ranger wrote:
Sarvis wrote:Yes, because I have the 8 years of medical school to do it effectively.


Sarvis, you don't need any medical school to research the medications that you are prescribed. There is a wealth of laymen's references and resources available to the public both on and off line.


Seriously... not trying to jump in the middle here, but people really SHOULD put a little work into their own healthcare. Too many doctors prescribe pharmaceuticals today without prescribing common sense first. My doctor (whom I need to change) told me my cholesterol was borderline high and wanted me to start taking Lipitor. She never once mentioned changing my diet. Anybody who takes Lipitor without the situation really calling for pharmaceutical intervention of that particular type is absolutely friggin' out of their minds.

Not knocking the doctors who post here, because I'm sure they're much more responsible and realize that creating a problem to fix a problem should never be the first approach.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Postby Kifle » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:56 am

Ashiwi wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote:
Sarvis wrote:Yes, because I have the 8 years of medical school to do it effectively.


Sarvis, you don't need any medical school to research the medications that you are prescribed. There is a wealth of laymen's references and resources available to the public both on and off line.


Seriously... not trying to jump in the middle here, but people really SHOULD put a little work into their own healthcare. Too many doctors prescribe pharmaceuticals today without prescribing common sense first. My doctor (whom I need to change) told me my cholesterol was borderline high and wanted me to start taking Lipitor. She never once mentioned changing my diet. Anybody who takes Lipitor without the situation really calling for pharmaceutical intervention of that particular type is absolutely friggin' out of their minds.

Not knocking the doctors who post here, because I'm sure they're much more responsible and realize that creating a problem to fix a problem should never be the first approach.


You mean being on a med you can't stop taking after you start is not a good thing? <3 Lipitor!
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Postby Sarvis » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:29 am

Just for the record: I meant actual _research_ like what the FDA is <i>supposed</i> to do before approving a drug, not looking at labels or pulling stuff up on the internet which probably only exists because the FDA did research.
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.

I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:14 pm

Sarvis wrote:Just for the record: I meant actual _research_ like what the FDA is <i>supposed</i> to do before approving a drug, not looking at labels or pulling stuff up on the internet which probably only exists because the FDA did research.


Without the FDA, this does not mean that the consumer will have to research their drugs all by themselves.

Most industries that have escaped Federal regulation have created innumerous devices by which to regulate themselves, for instance, Underwriter's Laboratories. the United States Pharmacopeial Convention, and the International Gemological Institute, amongst independant verification bodies.

Don't confuse immaturity of a system with an inability to self-regulate. For all purposes and forms, the FDA is more a system of corporate welfare, using our tax dollars to give pharmaceutical companies the kind of legitimacy to sell their drugs as they would have had to pay to research themselves (with an independant body) had the government not offered to pick up the tab.

Finally, to bring this thread back onto the course of the original discussion, pop open ANY cell phone, mp3 player, or what have you that has a portable battery.

Observe the safety certifications, the CE mark, UL, the battery's manufacturer or brand name - or at least your ability to observe that there is none.

Then notice how you can't even get to your iPod's battery at all.




Sssssurprise!

Lesson? Buy Apple, get hole burned in pants, not just wallet. Oh well, at least you probably have a case to sue the dickens out of Apple Computer, Inc.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:31 pm

I'm gonna go crash a car and sue the company b/c i'm too dumb to use it right.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Ambar
Sojourner
Posts: 2872
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Our House in Va.
Contact:

Postby Ambar » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:41 pm

Dalar wrote:I'm gonna go crash a car and sue the company b/c i'm too dumb to use it right.


hell just back over your kid and kill him then sue the car manufacturer for not letting you knwo the vehicle has blind spots
"When a child is born, so is a grandmother."



-Italian Proverb
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Postby Kifle » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Ambar wrote:
Dalar wrote:I'm gonna go crash a car and sue the company b/c i'm too dumb to use it right.


hell just back over your kid and kill him then sue the car manufacturer for not letting you knwo the vehicle has blind spots


He'd have to have sex before he had a kid...
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"

Return to “General Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests