Courtesy
Well, I apologize for posting this in the wrong forum, someone could have simply moved my post instead of outright deleting it, but since apologizing on the BBS is pointless I'll get down to the point(s):
As a courtesy to your players you could do one of a couple of things:
1. make an ID bot at 3w and DK fount (or)
2. free ID scrolls for a day (2days, 3days a week) (or)
3. post the changes you have made for all to see
Why should I have to spend cash to buy X amount of id scrolls to re-id ALL of my stuff? There are items I have been working towards for a long time, and some that I haven't acquired yet. It would be nice to know before I work my tail off anymore if the item is going to be crap when I get it.
Some of us have been here a long time, treat us like we have been. If you are going to make such a sweeping change, help the players adjust.
General Feedback
After going over much of my eq, I have noticed the following:
1. The reduction of caster hitpoints is MOOT. I lost about 70-100 (been a while since i logged my caster so i'm estimating) hp. I have mostly high-end gear that didn't get nerfed too bad. In all honesty, i'm not sure what 70 less hps would do, if anything. The point was to make it harder? If i'm down to 70 or 100, chances are the battle is almost over (for me or the mob). It doesn't really seem to add much to the gameplay. Make it harder? Perhaps, perhaps not I guess only zoning will tell us. But again you fuct the solo game even further. Now if you wanted to make the gamer HARDER you would have dropped us about 200 hps or more. So I don't see how the 70ish range really changed anything except to fuct solo and people with less than uber eq.
2. My hitter(s) gained a definite increase in hitroll. Again what is the point. I don't do any damage as melee (except using bow) so whether or not I hit especially as my warrior doesn't make a bit of difference. Unless you are planning on changing the way melee does damage, and change this to finally include warriors (not just rogues and archers) then the increase in all this melee eq is pretty moot.
This game has gone through many changes over the years. Yes I realize different people have owned/ran/admin'd it. You could do a lot to just include your players on your thoughts in ADVANCE and I mean including specifics. Such as, "ok tonight there is a "mortal-open" meeting regarding the brainstorm of problem X. Based on your input we will then move ahead with the administratively duties".
You are taking the advice of people who albeit have played the game a long time, but play from a certain perspective that not all the active mortals share. I have browsed the BBS and played the game a long time, and never once read anything about WHY the eq changes were coming. All i read was "stuff is out of balance" well what stuff? What exactly is it. How exactly does your proposal of downgrade hps and upgrade hitroll mystically solve said problem? I understand you don't want to dole out secrets so every mudder goes out and twinks whatever is being twinked but....your sweeping changes to stamp out the twinking leaves a lot of legit players in the dust. Define balance before you attempt to solve it.
Wobb
equipment change courtesy and generic feedback
There were actually a number of drawn out discussions about eq changes in the old sojourn forms, dating back probably over a year now. I was one of the biggest advocates for sweeping downgrades of eq. Why?
First of all, its impossible to die these days. Unless your moritheil, spanks just dont happen. Alot of this is due to the fact that we all have 1000 hps, -20 svspell, prot all, and insane protection spells.
Second of all, how much better can eq get? Stats are already insane. When new zones come in, they have to have an item worth getting or people wont bother to do them. There's no room to put in eq better than what exists, now there is. Its more of a long term benefit most people dont think of.
Third of all, zones like ET are totally easy, and have items better than rareload stuff in hard zones. That's not right either. Needs to be fixed.
First of all, its impossible to die these days. Unless your moritheil, spanks just dont happen. Alot of this is due to the fact that we all have 1000 hps, -20 svspell, prot all, and insane protection spells.
Second of all, how much better can eq get? Stats are already insane. When new zones come in, they have to have an item worth getting or people wont bother to do them. There's no room to put in eq better than what exists, now there is. Its more of a long term benefit most people dont think of.
Third of all, zones like ET are totally easy, and have items better than rareload stuff in hard zones. That's not right either. Needs to be fixed.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
I think you're completely wrong. The reason nobody spanks these days is because we have illusionists and enchanters and invokers. When we fight naked in SPOB when do we die? When we fight undead stabbers. If zone builders want to make their zones worth doing, make a new concept like spob, or put in alternative stats. Look at the hp ring department. How many years did it take to get a maxwis/int ring? You can come up with alternative stats like 40 hp -2 sv petri or some other crap and people will go out and get it to wear or to collect.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
thanuk wrote:There were actually a number of drawn out discussions about eq changes in the old sojourn forms, dating back probably over a year now. I was one of the biggest advocates for sweeping downgrades of eq. Why?
First of all, its impossible to die these days. Unless your moritheil, spanks just dont happen. Alot of this is due to the fact that we all have 1000 hps, -20 svspell, prot all, and insane protection spells.
Second of all, how much better can eq get? Stats are already insane. When new zones come in, they have to have an item worth getting or people wont bother to do them. There's no room to put in eq better than what exists, now there is. Its more of a long term benefit most people dont think of.
Third of all, zones like ET are totally easy, and have items better than rareload stuff in hard zones. That's not right either. Needs to be fixed.
I'm glad you're thinking of yourself. But if you have 1000hp -20 svspell, prot all, then you've got some of the "best" gear in the game.
Unfortunately, EQ changes had the most impact to those of us who do NOT have the best gear in the game.
Guess what? We die all the damn time.
So what did we do? We smash all the eq from the people who DON'T have 1000hp, -20svspell, and prot all. Those who do, of course, the eq is "hard to get" so the stats are justified, and they move happily along their path.
Kudos!
Uhm, guess what.
Eq from Jot, ET, and SG got upgraded. Eq from Bronze Citadel, Avernus, clouds, and longass quests got downgraded.
So the people with the low end eq got a boost, and the people with the high end eq got nerfed. So thanks for thinking of yourself, but the people with like 3rd tier eq are the ones who made out on all this.
Eq from Jot, ET, and SG got upgraded. Eq from Bronze Citadel, Avernus, clouds, and longass quests got downgraded.
So the people with the low end eq got a boost, and the people with the high end eq got nerfed. So thanks for thinking of yourself, but the people with like 3rd tier eq are the ones who made out on all this.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
thanuk wrote:Uhm, guess what.
Eq from Jot, ET, and SG got upgraded. Eq from Bronze Citadel, Avernus, clouds, and longass quests got downgraded.
So the people with the low end eq got a boost, and the people with the high end eq got nerfed. So thanks for thinking of yourself, but the people with like 3rd tier eq are the ones who made out on all this.
Hm, guess I need to get some ID scrolls then. I took a hit somewhere, and most of my eq is Jot, ET, Oakvale, DK Vault, yada yada bing bang boom. Course, I have no idea what the stats are on half of it now, so it's hard to tell where I got nailed.
Really wish they would have given an "offset" list.
IE: Since they don't want to post stats, just post
amethyst ring lost 10 psp, gained 1 hr.
etc.
with dalar on this one
if eq was so freakin inportant we would get destroyed in naked zones, and in cr's
but gues swhat we dont
how many zones have you crd naked or basicly naked from?
sheield etc
i personaly have crd naked from jot crypts and a few others, not to mention going to a freakin zone that requires you to be naked
eq does notmake the mud
spells/skills does said it b4 saying it again.
need proof? look at tanks with and without spells, let them fight padashaw as is lets see who does better, naked ofc
only getting heals for the !spellup guy, and displace/scales/heal for the other, who wins?
if eq was so freakin inportant we would get destroyed in naked zones, and in cr's
but gues swhat we dont
how many zones have you crd naked or basicly naked from?
sheield etc
i personaly have crd naked from jot crypts and a few others, not to mention going to a freakin zone that requires you to be naked
eq does notmake the mud
spells/skills does said it b4 saying it again.
need proof? look at tanks with and without spells, let them fight padashaw as is lets see who does better, naked ofc
only getting heals for the !spellup guy, and displace/scales/heal for the other, who wins?
I don't think either is wrong...
On one hand a mage with 1K hps is stupid... but the game tentatively works like that - they still get chopped right up.
Ideally Shevarash would wave a nancing wand and casters would have 600 hps if they were Lilithelle, and 520 if they were wearing just normal good stuff. Warriors would have 900 hps. Priests, antis and paladins and rangers would have 750, rogues would have 600.
When a mob switched to the invoker he'd need to get rescued before he ran out of hps because even with dragonscales he is as impenetrable as Thanuk's mums underwear.
The warrior would want dragonscales before a fight, because he only had one cleric in the party. Or maybe he wouldn't, because the group could cope without dragonscales because it was a good group.
You wouldn't need to have 1 enchanter, 1 illusionist, 2 shaman/bard, etc etc in each group. Instead you'd need 15 people, brave and bold with wisdom and skills to match.
Dragons wouldn't need to buffet, their breath alone doing 75/150/300 damage (depending on saves/prots) would be enough to scare the bejesus out of groups.
But I don't think it's possible to fix it all at once.
Seems though that the real challenge in zones is...
a) Seeing how efficiently you can do it with the absolute best mix of classes
b) Seeing if you can do it with less people/the wrong mix.
Rather than...
c) Seeing if you can do the zone with your group knowing that it doesn't make a big difference really as long as you have priests, hitters, tanks and wizards covered it doesn't matter about the specifics. What matters is how well your people work together, how well each individual does their job and how well the leader makes the calls.
On one hand a mage with 1K hps is stupid... but the game tentatively works like that - they still get chopped right up.
Ideally Shevarash would wave a nancing wand and casters would have 600 hps if they were Lilithelle, and 520 if they were wearing just normal good stuff. Warriors would have 900 hps. Priests, antis and paladins and rangers would have 750, rogues would have 600.
When a mob switched to the invoker he'd need to get rescued before he ran out of hps because even with dragonscales he is as impenetrable as Thanuk's mums underwear.
The warrior would want dragonscales before a fight, because he only had one cleric in the party. Or maybe he wouldn't, because the group could cope without dragonscales because it was a good group.
You wouldn't need to have 1 enchanter, 1 illusionist, 2 shaman/bard, etc etc in each group. Instead you'd need 15 people, brave and bold with wisdom and skills to match.
Dragons wouldn't need to buffet, their breath alone doing 75/150/300 damage (depending on saves/prots) would be enough to scare the bejesus out of groups.
But I don't think it's possible to fix it all at once.
Seems though that the real challenge in zones is...
a) Seeing how efficiently you can do it with the absolute best mix of classes
b) Seeing if you can do it with less people/the wrong mix.
Rather than...
c) Seeing if you can do the zone with your group knowing that it doesn't make a big difference really as long as you have priests, hitters, tanks and wizards covered it doesn't matter about the specifics. What matters is how well your people work together, how well each individual does their job and how well the leader makes the calls.
-
Tanji Smanji
- Sojourner
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
hi Tanji,
in 1 word ---- spoob
in 2 words --- naked cr's
eq makes players happy, balance lies in skills spells, so...
balance the mud, and let players be happy. ie leave their toys alone.
hp has never freakin made a difference, i only wear between 600 and 650 hp, and never have a problem zoning, well that was before i lost alot of hp, and before i lost 3 prots, and before i lost a crap load of saves.. owell...
in 1 word ---- spoob
in 2 words --- naked cr's
eq makes players happy, balance lies in skills spells, so...
balance the mud, and let players be happy. ie leave their toys alone.
hp has never freakin made a difference, i only wear between 600 and 650 hp, and never have a problem zoning, well that was before i lost alot of hp, and before i lost 3 prots, and before i lost a crap load of saves.. owell...
eq makes players happy, balance lies in skills spells, so...
balance the mud, and let players be happy. ie leave their toys alone.
I think that is more true than most people realize, honestly, that just summs up alot right there.
You could put everything back the way it was, give melee a small boost - and if you really think necessary make a tweak to mobs across the board, hp increase per level or something to balance the small boost in melee damage and I think everyone would be in more of a happy state and the mud would be no worse for balance.
If it's absolutely necessary to balance/change an Item do it on a case by case basis taking into account everything that goes into obtaining that one item, don't base the item stats off of how many items are in a zone and how good each other item in the zone is..
-ya
I think that if youve been playing sojourn for more than 10 minutes you already have 15,000 platinum and ID scrolls are no longer a fukn luxury.
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world
These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives
All this I cannot bear to witness any longer
Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives
All this I cannot bear to witness any longer
Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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mynazzaraxxsyn
- Sojourner
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:00 pm
- Location: Ixarkon
- Contact:
Gerad wrote:I think that if youve been playing sojourn for more than 10 minutes you already have 15,000 platinum and ID scrolls are no longer a fukn luxury.
Coins in bank: 1072 platinum 90 gold 398 silver 1077 copper
Playing time: 28 days / 16 hours/ 35 minutes
Guess I'm playing the game wrong.
Lilithelle stops using a softly throbbing piece of flesh.
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
mynazzaraxxsyn wrote:Gerad wrote:I think that if youve been playing sojourn for more than 10 minutes you already have 15,000 platinum and ID scrolls are no longer a fukn luxury.
Coins in bank: 1072 platinum 90 gold 398 silver 1077 copper
Playing time: 28 days / 16 hours/ 35 minutes
Guess I'm playing the game wrong.
Damn man, you're rich
Coins in bank: 177 platinum 93 gold 1655 silver 5227 copper
Playing time: 29 days / 4 hours/ 40 minutes
-
mynazzaraxxsyn
- Sojourner
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:00 pm
- Location: Ixarkon
- Contact:
Izisayyin="Damn man, you're rich
Coins in bank: 177 platinum 93 gold 1655 silver 5227 copper
Playing time: 29 days / 4 hours/ 40 minutes
More proof the world hates Illithids.
::edit:: to fix tags
Lilithelle stops using a softly throbbing piece of flesh.
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
Gura group-says 'ill go solo the biznatch, just don't tell Stamm'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'is it bad that the two words i think of when i see yer title are hottub and cthulhu? :('
-
kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
people dont die because they have 10 years practicing.
people don't die because scales, displace, mirror image, elemental form, sequester, reduce, hex/curse + silence person.
1000+ vitt'd eq'd mages are insane, but 1250 hp experienced elementalist can still get plowed in a single round in a semi easy zone like SF (thanks for that laugh zazyg).
I can tell easily whether my group is gonna get their ass spanked off or gonna be successful. It usually goes like this.
group
damn our warriors suck, they are low level, dont know how to bash, or are 2handing
damn our cleric is low level or sucks or has a bad link
damn we don't have a scaler, or we have one with a bad link
damn our leader has no idea where he is in the zone, what the tried and true tactics are, or enough respect to get people to do what he tells them to.
On the other hand, if I type group and see 6 or 7 of the following Oosh, Gura, Gromikazer, Ambar, Dezzex, Izid, Yssilk, Gyrx, Nilan, Todrael, Zoldren, Zazyg then I know we could get transd into avernus naked and we're gonna lay some smack down.
people don't die because scales, displace, mirror image, elemental form, sequester, reduce, hex/curse + silence person.
1000+ vitt'd eq'd mages are insane, but 1250 hp experienced elementalist can still get plowed in a single round in a semi easy zone like SF (thanks for that laugh zazyg).
I can tell easily whether my group is gonna get their ass spanked off or gonna be successful. It usually goes like this.
group
damn our warriors suck, they are low level, dont know how to bash, or are 2handing
damn our cleric is low level or sucks or has a bad link
damn we don't have a scaler, or we have one with a bad link
damn our leader has no idea where he is in the zone, what the tried and true tactics are, or enough respect to get people to do what he tells them to.
On the other hand, if I type group and see 6 or 7 of the following Oosh, Gura, Gromikazer, Ambar, Dezzex, Izid, Yssilk, Gyrx, Nilan, Todrael, Zoldren, Zazyg then I know we could get transd into avernus naked and we're gonna lay some smack down.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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