Elementalists

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
mynazzaraxxsyn
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:04 pm

Ace wrote:
kiryan wrote:Some of the other things I suggest would eliminate solo ability pretty much completely


You don't think ele's should be able to solo?

Did i read that right?

Ace


He doesn't seem to think that anyone should be able to do anything unless he gives them his personal OK first.
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kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:33 pm

kiryan wrote:Some of the other things I suggest would eliminate solo ability pretty much completely, so I think that reducing damage + eliminating the suicide mental twink would be reasonable without destroying the class.


quote the rest of the sentence next time you [deleted expletive referring to a certain segment of the population who prefers creatures of their same gender]. I didn't say completely remove all solo ability from elementalists. I said instead of f'ing them over by making them unable to heal, reduce their damage so that it takes longer to solo (which is justified by the amount of risk taken) and eliminate the fire elemental twink.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby thanuk » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:35 pm

Honestly, if you have the patience to sit there, and summon elementals over and over and over until the mob actually kills itself on fireshield, then you deserve whatever that got you. Hope it was worth the 3 hours.
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kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:49 pm

thanuk wrote:Honestly, if you have the patience to sit there, and summon elementals over and over and over until the mob actually kills itself on fireshield, then you deserve whatever that got you. Hope it was worth the 3 hours.


I disagree its 0 risk. Its just hours of summoning fire elementals and ordering them north.

Well i cant really argue with what gromi says.

Welp if no one thinks its broken, then i guess i might as well roll one. You know its interesting how many elementalists there are out there lately.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:01 pm

kiryan wrote:I disagree its 0 risk. Its just hours of summoning fire elementals and ordering them north.

Yeah but with the new eq system, any fight you can do this for isn't going to be worth any points anyway, so you aren't really gonna get anything for it.
kiryan wrote:Well i cant really argue with what gromi says.

Welp if no one thinks its broken, then i guess i might as well roll one. You know its interesting how many elementalists there are out there lately.


That's what I did. Level 20, few more he'll get stone and be able to tank better than my level 50 warrior can.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Guw
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"xp-ing an ele up to near 40"

Postby Guw » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:37 pm

Long post - getting a weeks worth out in one shot!

First thing - if it's the fire ele "twink" that annoys just give every conjured elemental perma death pact. On mort fire ele will then require dispel (ie. have to go into room with aggro to cast) or tog-fol with later possibility of multiple agg'd tracking fire shielded elementals chasing caster (the conjured ele's might need to be auto-alert when recovering from mort).
This alone would be big penalty to elementalists and there'd be no need for sweeping class downgrades as suggested in this thread.


My experience with xp-ing a sub-40 ele (possibly the start of an elementalists guide!).

Kill rate:
Typically solo xp has been slower than grouped xp, except perhaps in level brackets 25 to maybe 33.

-At lvl 38 took my 'lil' ele to DS for first time to try some solo ferns. Typically takes ~3 mem outs at that level to kill a fern, giving 3% (1 fern took 0 mem outs, others took 4).

-A 37th necro was killing ~2.5 ferns to each of my kills.

I guess I was slowed a little by having to earth fog every 3-4mins but that doesn't account for the kill-rate difference.

Earth Darts:
For levels 1-30 earth darts were the best damage per unit-time spell I had. ie. other spells did more individual damage, but taking into account mem times Earth Darts were the best damage. Only after 31 did Thunder lance start to become time-effective.

Thunder Lance
Thunder lance is only real single target damage option levels 31-40. I laugh when i read ele damage needs downgrade.

Fire ele's:
I don't find fire ele's much use as solo-xp tools:
-they die to fast then mob switches and rapes me
-or the fire frequently end up morted requiring dispel,
-or the mob kills itself on the fire ele when stone drops and I am out memming.

Air ele's:
The only tanking pet for solo work, requires quite abit of conjuring/dispelling to get a 'useful' pet. Average air hps is about my level * 8.5, and can vary by +-100hps. Air has to be stoned, and even when stoned ship mobs chew them fast, lasting 3-4 rounds. In group xp-in probably doesn't hurt to have air assist main tank to reduce mobs defence.

Power word blind:
Works well on mobs lower level than me (love perma-blinding those bastard HP thieves!). On mobs a few levels higher it's 1/2 chance. On higher level mobs it's borderline useless. eg. Miplit is ~1/6 chance of success, is typically nasty wounds by the time he's blinded. As yet I have never stuttered casting a PWB, maybe impossible?

Stone Skin:
My stone lasts noticably longer on a tanking warrior than it does on me when soloing. Eg against HP passengers stone lasts about 1.5 rounds on me then i'm raped, while 40th troll warrior tank with my stone can prolly tank Captain Miplit for 5-6 rounds?

Elemental Water Embody:
Useful for vitting tanks, a friggin painful way of having to heal someone. Cast time is like ***************, takes 30s for embodi to drop on target *after* i dispel myself, plus the dispel removes all my spells (so I have to re-stone re-DI myself etc etc). Maybe i'm doing something wrong.

Elemental Air Embody:
Great for solo work, no good when cast on tank!
eg Dorgars bash passes through a Waterdeep captain!
Woops hehe. Useful to cast on rogues for haste effect. The only fly spell elementalists get.


Conclusion:
Ele's are alot of fun but are "fiddly" to play because of the micro-management involved (still, less so than necro's I'd imagine). No having a shower while soloing Meilich while playing ele's :) Up level 40, I'd put ele's on par with a (pre-equipment downgrade) troll warrior in the power stakes.
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Postby Mitharx » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:53 pm

That necro can't air self or stone anything. It's justified.
Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:27 pm

It occurs to me that shaman and elementalists are pretty similar ... only difference is that shaman pets are limited .. but shaman can actually HEAL their pet ... should we also downgrade shaman???

pets that can tank well
heal
stone
damage
stun
hex
blind (so far i cant PERM blind anything exp-wise (lvl 45 g-elf elementalist))

sorry little beiiter .. i have both and their merits are both equal imho and neither need to be downgraded

once again every class has their part in groups and solo .. and as someone mentioned if you are a good player ten all classes have soloablility .. hell i have seen chanters solo stuff just as well as i can now .. depends on player ability imo ...
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:29 pm

that necro also can only solo ferns in ds. everything else sees invis and switches. since necros cant blind it severely limits what they CAN solo, and justifies what power they may have.

however a lich is a different story, and no class in the game should be able to touch a lich..that's just that.
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Postby kiryan » Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:31 pm

ive said before that i think shaman need to lose fury. its too short of a casting time and too good damage.

spirit wrack stuns too often, has a great chant, and does too good of damage. should knock that down a notch somehow. stunning is one major reason no one dies in zone anymore. another would be how easy it is to land silence after hex/curse.

pets, 3/week is very encumbering since shaman walk everywhere. It was really broken when you could blur them, thank god that was dgraded. they hit pretty damn hard and tank pretty darn well. I think they probably need to be knocked down about 15-25% in maximum hps/level, but im waiting to see what my pets are like when i max skill. at 69 skill and level 50 i regularly get 650-700 hp pets which can easily solo level 40 mobs without my help. I've heard of 900 hp spirits, this just sounds wrong, but i havent experienced it yet and I'm working up my skill to see if this is accurate (at 3/week don't hold your breath).

shaman blind is pointless. pwb sticks for 5 minutes (i believe) on a mob that you can't perm blind. shaman/cleric blind lasts about 1-1.5 minute if that and has a chant time (this is very very important, against bashing mobs). After you land it, you have just enough time enough time to mem back all your miscasts, heals, and stones before it fades. Its far better to wrack the mob flee out, come back in wrack it again. If you time it right you can keep the mob pretty much stunned and you don't really get hit while your chanting. wrack flee fury flee wrack flee stone and vit as necessary.

And really, pwb to priest blind is apples to oranges. one is used to keep low level followers from assisting or to prevent tracking the other really isn't good for anything.

switching elementalists from PWB to regular blind would be a significant downgrade. If shaman had pwb or could summon unlimited spirits, they would be as broken as i think elementalists are.

Also, I believe elementalist stone is an order or 2 better than shaman stone is it not?

also, the embody thing is huge imo. it makes it extremely easy to hit -100 ac while maintaining excellent hps and your semi wraith form meaning a chance that a mob who made it past your dodge check will still sprawl through you. This plus stone.

This is big thing... the level of risk they have to take. Sure lichs do insane damage with their unbelievlable pets, but they dont have stone or blind or vit.... Shaman have some good damage heal, vit, stone, and pets, but their stone is paper thin and 3 / week pets don't give you a lot of room to make any mistakes unless you want to wait 3 hours.

The whole picture still looks rosy to me. But there were a couple things i wasnt aware of like waiting for tick on embody and i really can't argue with gromi's protrayal of tehir damage capability without playing one myself. So I pretty much concede that they are not as powerful as I think they are, but will do some more research because I still believe the opposite.

Thanks for everyones input (well almost everyone).
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
mynazzaraxxsyn
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:42 pm

kiryan do you like ANYTHING in the game? Every post from you is down grade this, nerf that, this is too powerful...
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Postby Thilindel » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:31 pm

kiryan wrote: Welp if no one thinks its broken, then i guess i might as well roll one. You know its interesting how many elementalists there are out there lately.


Um, ya mean you don't even have the class, but you want it nerfed? *boggle* I couldda swore you were an ele..No wonder you don't know what you're talking about :P *noogie* But seriously, there's nothing wrong with the class. It can be rather boring. We're only backup for an enchanter MIA or if no lich can be found.
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Postby Ace » Fri Nov 21, 2003 2:30 pm

You don't play an ele, but you think they should be downgraded.

Interesting.

I think we should downgrade rangers because they are overpowered. Ha take that rangers!

Ace
[48 Elementalist] Acedizaken (Duergar) (RP)
Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Fri Nov 21, 2003 8:00 pm

Ace wrote:You don't play an ele, but you think they should be downgraded.

Interesting.

I think we should downgrade rangers because they are overpowered. Ha take that rangers!

Ace


Poor.
old depok
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Postby old depok » Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:26 pm

Downgrade Warriors!

Seriously, they are way overpowered. They can tank every mob on the mud! Don't give me that crap about their needing spells. everytime I look at them they have the spells they need!

Oh, and they get great weapons! Everytime we do gatehouse all the mobs die and the warrior was tanking them when they died so they are overpowered!

Look at all the warriors on too.

Don't even get me started on BARDS! I mean melee AND songs AND spells! Downgrade! make all eq !bard.

Who's next?

SQUIDS!

I don't play an evil let alone a squid but they sure seem overpowered to me. Psionic attacks! Come on! Way overpowered. Now they get wormhole! Not sure what it is but it sounds overpowered. DENIED!

CLERICS:
Full Healing self? word of RECALL! BLESS! Overpowered. Make all healing spells non self so that they can be prevented from soloing. Make word randomly place them in an evil home town if good and a good hometown if evil race. Make Bless work on invoker only!

RANGERS!

SPELLS + WOODCARVING + ARCHERY = ?

DOWNGRADE! Rght now. Make 1w safe for us all!

*waves his hands in the air like a madman*

Mutter.

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