Most powerful class on Toril?

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.

Which class on Toril is the most powerful?

Warrior
2
3%
Ranger
3
4%
Rogue
5
6%
Druid
1
1%
Psionicist
0
No votes
Lich
8
10%
Invoker
7
9%
Enchanter
7
9%
Cleric
2
3%
Elementalist
33
42%
Illusionist
7
9%
Paladin
1
1%
Anti-Paladin
0
No votes
Dire Raider
0
No votes
Shaman
2
3%
Bard/Battlechanter
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 78
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Most powerful class on Toril?

Postby Ragorn » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:42 pm

Just for S&G, let's do the other one. Cast your vote now for the most powerful class. Solo or in groups, doesn't matter. Not a serious poll, not meant to spark flames and debates. Just throw down a vote and smile at the results.
- Ragorn
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Postby Gromikazer » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:32 am

HOly crap, people are confused. ROFL.

Elementalists are balanced because they do less damage then most other classes, but they get an extra few perks. Its so funny watching people vote for elementalist, when they probably have never even played the class.
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Gamorakul - 49th Duergar Elementalist
Direb - 41st Orc Dire Raider
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Lipopple - 40th Gnome Illusionist
Talkryn - 41st Human Anti-Paladin

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Postby Stamm » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:45 am

Well, either you have no idea how to play your class, or you're lying.
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Postby Lilithelle » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:53 am

Elementals can do alot, but their offense is low and often things take much longer than it would take in a group due to having to do blind runs, feeb runs, and more earthbloods than most would care to count. They're powerful in the sense they can do alot solo given time. In groups however they're mediocre, they help but frankly in alot of zones i'd rather have an extra invoker to kill mobs faster, or a lich to provide good damage, globes, hastes, etc. I only use my own elementalist in seelie because you need to toggle pets to lure, otherwise I always use my druid.
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Postby Gromikazer » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:59 am

Rofl, wouldn't that be the biggest twist? It turns out I'm one of the biggest n00bs around. Haha.. whew.. thanks for setting me straight stamm.
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Gamorakul - 49th Duergar Elementalist

Direb - 41st Orc Dire Raider

Gokal - 46th Orc Shaman

Lipopple - 40th Gnome Illusionist

Talkryn - 41st Human Anti-Paladin



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Postby Stamm » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:02 am

Gromikazer wrote:Rofl, wouldn't that be the biggest twist? It turns out I'm one of the biggest n00bs around. Haha.. whew.. thanks for setting me straight stamm.


No problem!

It's nice to help people.
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Postby Gromikazer » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:09 am

Oh, but I'm just a little curious...


Was it you who led the last and hardest tiamat run this wipe? I keep forgeting who that was.

Or, I know, how many zones have you led before anyone had ever been there?

Oh wait.. I get it, you have completed quests before anyone else right?

I don't know the standard of being a n00b.. maybe you can teach me stamm because its obvious that your knowledge here is extensive.
Gromikazer Terrorforge - 50th Duergar Warrior

Gamorakul - 49th Duergar Elementalist

Direb - 41st Orc Dire Raider

Gokal - 46th Orc Shaman

Lipopple - 40th Gnome Illusionist

Talkryn - 41st Human Anti-Paladin



Games dont make people violent, lag does.
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Postby Gura » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:28 am

gromi 1 stamm 0
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Postby Alomlim » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:30 am

Better poll would be:

What class would be #1 on your list to recruit if you were going to try to 4-man a zone or other series of hard fights. Soloing doesn't get you as far as small groups do.

4 grouped elementalists can't do much compared with warrior/cleric/ench/voker, or warrior/cleric/illus/rogue

We all know the answer to that poll though, it's a tie between chanter and cleric, the two most powerful classes on the mud
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Postby Stamm » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:40 am

Gromikazer wrote:Oh, but I'm just a little curious...


Was it you who led the last and hardest tiamat run this wipe? I keep forgeting who that was.

Or, I know, how many zones have you led before anyone had ever been there?

Oh wait.. I get it, you have completed quests before anyone else right?

I don't know the standard of being a n00b.. maybe you can teach me stamm because its obvious that your knowledge here is extensive.


If you mean on _this_ mud then I'm relatively new here. I can, however, play my class.

How many raids did you lead on Duris? Were you the best equipped character ever there? Were you the first to level 56?
How many quests did you complete on Discworld?
Were you the first person to make wiz for 2 years on SN?
Were you the highest level cleric ever on LH?

I might be pretty new here, but I've been mudding for 15 years, that time has taught me to value a class that can heal and do damage. Elementalists are a very powerful class, after all you've achieved you'd think you would be able to recognise that. If you don't know how to play your own class, you are a n00b, no matter how much you have achieved.
Last edited by Stamm on Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby thanuk » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:47 am

Gromikazer wrote:HOly crap, people are confused. ROFL.

Elementalists are balanced because they do less damage then most other classes, but they get an extra few perks. Its so funny watching people vote for elementalist, when they probably have never even played the class.


Dude, I played a warrior here for 10 years. Never once did i play a caster. Not once. On thanksgiving, I rolled up an elementalist. My first caster ever! Hooray! 2 weeks later I'm level 41. That's faster than I leveled my warrior, and I did a solid portion of the exp in groups of 3 or less people, alot of it by myself. I haven't zoned with him yet, so I can't say for sure, but from what I have seen its a pretty rediculously twinky class. The only aspect of it that is really game breaking is the whole "embody dispel embody dispel" heal yourself bullshit. If they fixed that, elementalists would definately be a very well crafted, very well balanced class. But as long as you can still do that, they are the twinkiest, cheesiest, most overpowered class in the game.
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Postby Gura » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:17 am

gonna agree with nuk even tho he's a grandmotherfaulker and say yea. embody needs to be coded like old vit.
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:25 am

Stamm wrote:How many raids did you lead on Duris? Were you the best equipped character ever there? Were you the first to level 56?


And just who are you on Duris, so we can validate your chest puffing?
- Ragorn
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Postby Gromikazer » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:32 am

Stamm, you refer to this mud, and then throw in a bunch of others.

I can easily return the favor by asking;

How many unique items did you collect in Asheron's Call?

How many epics did you do in Earth and beyond?

How many zones did you write for any mud?

The point is you refered to THIS mud, and my "lack of knowledge", or that I am a liar.

I don't like being called a liar, because I don't, and I pointed out that I am not a newbie.

_____________________________________________________

In regards, to the elementalist "heal";

If they took that away, they would have to fix the class with several other fixes. Let me enlighten those who do not know.

Earthblood does less damage then constriction. Yet constriction works on EVERY mob and has a chance to cancel spells. Earthblood dosen't work on 30% of the mobs in the game, and has a shitty side affect for experience.

Spirit wrack does slightly less then earthblood, but it is a circle LOWER, and it stuns more then 50% of the time. Again, spirit wrack can be used on every mob in the game.

I could go on and on and on, but I don't have the energy to do so. If you remove the heal from elementalists they end up being sub-par enchanters, and thats it. Period. They will have less damage, less debuffs, less buffs, etc. I am all for removing the heal, if all the other aspects of elementalists were fixed so that they actually did something useful in groups.
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Gamorakul - 49th Duergar Elementalist

Direb - 41st Orc Dire Raider

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Postby Stamm » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:09 am

Ragorn wrote:
Stamm wrote:How many raids did you lead on Duris? Were you the best equipped character ever there? Were you the first to level 56?


And just who are you on Duris, so we can validate your chest puffing?

Halk/Sentri.

My point was that it doesn't matter what you've done in the past, anybody can spout off a list of achiemvents.

What matters is you can or you cannot recognise what your class can do and use that to your advantage,
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Postby Gura » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:11 am

remove the heal and remove pwb and up their target damage or give them better elemental pets at higher level? i dunno just a couple more thoughts.
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:17 am

Stamm wrote:
Ragorn wrote:
Stamm wrote:How many raids did you lead on Duris? Were you the best equipped character ever there? Were you the first to level 56?


And just who are you on Duris, so we can validate your chest puffing?

Halk/Sentri.


HAHAHAH awesome I didn't know you were Halk. Bingo.

But when were you ever the first to 56? From my recollection, it was Spij who was 56 first, or Golrith. Maybe Spij can tell us, I forgot who he plays/played on Toril ;)
- Ragorn
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Postby Dlur » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:21 am

I took this pool from a standpoint of what one single class breaks the MUD worse than any other class on the MUD. That class would most definately be invokers. All you need ever in this game is 2 warriors, cleric, enchanter, shaman, and maybe a rogue and fill the rest of the group with invokers. You can roll just about every zone in the game with this configuration. You can roll them fast.

Sure illusionists, enchanters, and elementalists have some twinky solo ability, especially elementalists, but how many top notch items do you know of that can be soloed by any of these classes without wasting insane amounts of time?

This is a grouping MUD. It always has and always will be. As long as you can have 3 invokers in a group rotating area-effect damage spells that effect all mobs with full force you will own zones, and fast. And as long as you can add in a lich or illusionist for suplemental damage to your hoarde of invokers you will own zones with nearly no deaths, and absolutely 99.9% change of never loosing your EQ unless you forget to GRP.

Any single class that can do more damage to 10 mobs in a room in 3-4 rounds than 5 hitters could to a single mob in the same amount of time is a broken class. Ever notice when you're a hitter that by the time you have a mob down to awful wounds all the other mobs in the room are at pretty hurt from the invoker fire?
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Postby Gromikazer » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:09 am

Exactly the whole point Dlur. This is a grouping mud, period. Elementalist can solo some things, yes, but in groups they are sub-par to so many classes its not even funny.

This is the same crap as 2 wipes ago, when everyone thought necros were too powerful because they could solo, in a group oriented game.

Open your eyes and look at the game, anything worthwhile is done with groups, not with an elementalist.


This is why liches and invokers easily tip the balance of almost every zone in the game.
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Postby Corth » Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:28 am

Agree with Dlur regarding vokers. They don't have anything besides offense, which is why they are not really overpowered relative to other classes. But they still manage to break the game because of the way all their skills are focused at one goal...

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Postby Yayaril » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:44 pm

8)

Yet again, this poll lacks what the other poll lacks- the ability to choose 'none of the above'. I vote that no single class is the most powerful.
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:14 pm

Wow Stamm you played Duris and a load of other places, whoopty fricking doo. I did too and I played Everquest and was one of the first 50s on my server, I was in one of the two biggest guilds on my server, I had many items before anyone else on ANY server. I figured out many quest before anyone else. But you know what, that doesn't mean jack fucking shit here.
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Postby Stamm » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:23 pm

mynazzaraxxsyn wrote:Wow Stamm you played Duris and a load of other places, whoopty fricking doo. I did too and I played Everquest and was one of the first 50s on my server, I was in one of the two biggest guilds on my server, I had many items before anyone else on ANY server. I figured out many quest before anyone else. But you know what, that doesn't mean jack fucking shit here.



That was my point.
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Postby Sesexe » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:38 pm

...
Last edited by Sesexe on Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vahok » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:37 pm

Well, the poll says elementalist are overpowered, then I guess tons of people are wrong. I'd be all for them doing more area damage, so it would help them in zones, but not make them solo masters (as if they aren't already!).

Plus, I find honestly elementalists are kinda misused by leaders. Embod has saved me more times then I count, ward is nice, and the utility spells sure do come in handy in zones.

Personally, I think elementalists are overpowered, but I can agree with most people here.... it depends on the sitution.
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:03 pm

When I saw the subject of this thread, it made me take in a deep breath. Unfortunately, what I feared has come true. The pole leads to arguments and rants...downgrade posts YET AGAIN, and personal comparisons...

For the 'be happy it's Christmas' crowd, and for those who have endured a lot FUCKING more personal loss than they should, just be happy and enjoy what you have in life.
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Postby Gormal » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:57 pm

actually dranak was the first to level 56. Before the potions were availiable to the mud we did a god-run quest and that was one of the final rewards. Cheers.
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Postby Stamm » Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:02 pm

Gormal wrote:actually dranak was the first to level 56. Before the potions were availiable to the mud we did a god-run quest and that was one of the final rewards. Cheers.


Nah, it was me.

It was a God run quest the wipe before CBL went goodie I think. The wipe I had Avernus for ages. I quaffed it 24 hours before a pwipe was announced and chaos began. And it despite what I was told, paladins didn't get judgement at 56 :(
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Dec 17, 2003 3:52 am

Sesexe wrote:Where the hell is Teyaha with all this alternate game chest puffing?

YO TEY! WAKE UP! There's a thread for you overhere!

omfg


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Postby Ragorn » Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:27 am

Stamm wrote:
Gormal wrote:actually dranak was the first to level 56. Before the potions were availiable to the mud we did a god-run quest and that was one of the final rewards. Cheers.


Nah, it was me.

It was a God run quest the wipe before CBL went goodie I think. The wipe I had Avernus for ages. I quaffed it 24 hours before a pwipe was announced and chaos began. And it despite what I was told, paladins didn't get judgement at 56 :(


That was the wipe I was playing evil, and I assure you that Golrith and Spij were both 56 long before the pwipe announcement ;) Was awesome watching 15 evils get swarmed and seeing group spheres jump to the rescue.
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Postby Stamm » Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:55 am

Ragorn wrote:
Stamm wrote:
Gormal wrote:actually dranak was the first to level 56. Before the potions were availiable to the mud we did a god-run quest and that was one of the final rewards. Cheers.



Nah, it was me.

It was a God run quest the wipe before CBL went goodie I think. The wipe I had Avernus for ages. I quaffed it 24 hours before a pwipe was announced and chaos began. And it despite what I was told, paladins didn't get judgement at 56 :(


That was the wipe I was playing evil, and I assure you that Golrith and Spij were both 56 long before the pwipe announcement ;) Was awesome watching 15 evils get swarmed and seeing group spheres jump to the rescue.


I was sure it was me. Oh well, it's not like it matters. (I'm still sure it was me!)
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:58 am

Stamm wrote:I was sure it was me. Oh well, it's not like it matters. (I'm still sure it was me!)


The ability to back down when proven wrong, strong quality. Not that you probably care what I think about you Stamm but that just raised my view of you quite a bit.
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Postby Yarash » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:55 pm

Dlur wrote:I took this pool from a standpoint of what one single class breaks the MUD worse than any other class on the MUD. That class would most definately be invokers. All you need ever in this game is 2 warriors, cleric, enchanter, shaman, and maybe a rogue and fill the rest of the group with invokers. You can roll just about every zone in the game with this configuration. You can roll them fast.


Due to feedback issues, 9 invokers is much less powerful than an assortment of 9 mixed area classes. But yea, we are deffinetly badass, and you should choose us over other classes when zoning, or more particularly, me.

I think if there were no invokers though, zones would still get done at the same speed pretty much. Most, if not all caster classes have at least one or two areas. It's the whole area concept that is powerful.


Dlur wrote:Sure illusionists, enchanters, and elementalists have some twinky solo ability, especially elementalists, but how many top notch items do you know of that can be soloed by any of these classes without wasting insane amounts of time?


That they are able to is a powerful ability. Many classes, including invokers, can't solo diddly squat. Granted, that you can solo means very little when it comes to zoning, but there are other aspects to the game as well. That a class can solo things is a great ability. There are a significant number of players that choose solo classes for that very reason.

Dlur wrote:Any single class that can do more damage to 10 mobs in a room in 3-4 rounds than 5 hitters could to a single mob in the same amount of time is a broken class. Ever notice when you're a hitter that by the time you have a mob down to awful wounds all the other mobs in the room are at pretty hurt from the invoker fire


All caster classes except perhaps clerics can do this. Warriors and rogues just can't compete with area spells when it comes to group fights. The mud seems to be designed for this too. Some zones are fine without areas, but zones such as clouds, muspel and scorps would not go so well.

- Mike
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:42 am

Using Duris now to validate yourself on Toril now would be bad enough, but using Duris then just doesnt work.
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"

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Postby Sarell » Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:00 pm

I think yoshi and peaches(just to annoy other players with pathetic sound on miniboost) are stylish, but donkey kong is still the pwn on mariokart btw
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Postby Lilithelle » Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:24 pm

Elementalist are presumably meant to be a pet class, i find most of the time its better to tank myself and just earthblood, flee, earthblood, flee cause keeping elementals alive is too much work. Big mobs seem to just hit through stone. A mage class with healing is certainly cheesey, though I don't begrudge it to lichs cause they're pets can't blind nor can they so they have alot of switching and stuff to deal with. Perhaps there are creative improvements to the class thats possible, being able to heal fire elementals would help i think, lava burst, firewave and being able to target them with fireball. Considering you can't scale or blur them I don't think they'll replace tanks, and fire/airs can't bash and earths/waters just can't tank for anything.

Waters could definitely use an upgrade since elementalists can't use anything else underwater, at least make them 1/2 as good as a fire. They're supposed to take more damage from fire but i haven't noticed that, that could certainly be added.

They changed fire form to cause the user of the form to take damage when underwater, air form too. So thats a downgrade to them, fire form you'd think would decrease fire damage but doesn't that i've seen, i've even taken 700 hp incendary clouds while fire formed(and not as a troll but an elf caster with decent saves) so i think somethings fubarred. So how about giving elementalists regeneration via embody when they're in their "element". So water embody would give regen underwater, fire embody would give regen in fire damage sectors, maybe air in mid-air/clouds or sectors requiring fly, Not sure about earth, maybe in the UD? The level of the regen could be adiusted so it wouldn't be nearly the healing elementalists have now, and adjusted so that the easiest to obtain sectors to regen in give the least regen. So fire might give the best regen but its hard to find fire sectors in zones you'd solo. Don't think elementalists will be soloing FP or Brass anytime soon. And it would be quite a hassle running off to another zone just to heal part way through battles especially if there are any healer mobs your trying to twink.
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