Max_dex
Max_dex
What I was told is if you are a race that does not get xtra attacks (gnome, grey elf, halfling, etc.) that you will not benefit from max_dex other than hitroll. Is this true? If it is, what's the point of max_dex? Skills are what determines success, not an attribute.
There are dexterity based skills still... you would imagine a stat increase would still benefit there.
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Yasden wrote:Not to mention, codewise, tanking ability strongly favors those races with a higher natural agility/dexterity. In terms of tanking *skills* however, only dodge/riposte are in those two areas....go figure.
Normally, stat boosts to skills seem to be pretty insignificant. Dwarf rogues sneak quite well after all. And agility plays a much, much larger role in tanking than dexterity. And elf, troll, and gnome will tank better than a halfling since they have massive agility while halflings have massive dexterity. But there is supposed to be a bonus to parry for high dexterity in there. Parry is still considered a strength based skill, so this dex bonus isn't just a skill modifier and hence may be more significant.
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- Sojourner
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as far as ive seen there is 0 extra "dex" attacks for any race other than gnome, halfling, elf and drow.
If you look at sservis' stat factors page you can calculate the differences between races (like human vs gnome), wear an equivalent amount of MAX_DEX eq and you will not get any extra attacks as a human.
Also, halflings don't seem to benefit from max dex eq, but gnomes and elves show strong increases per round on the order of .4 % extra chance per max_dex point. This testing was done at very low level to rule out skill based extra attacks.
I always thought it was funny that the bonus applied to non-melee classes too, it makes no difference at high level, but its funny at low level.
If you look at sservis' stat factors page you can calculate the differences between races (like human vs gnome), wear an equivalent amount of MAX_DEX eq and you will not get any extra attacks as a human.
Also, halflings don't seem to benefit from max dex eq, but gnomes and elves show strong increases per round on the order of .4 % extra chance per max_dex point. This testing was done at very low level to rule out skill based extra attacks.
I always thought it was funny that the bonus applied to non-melee classes too, it makes no difference at high level, but its funny at low level.
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Wow..I'm just surprised nobody said much about it sooner. Seems really really silly that you wear max_dex and not receive the true benefit. Human gets raised to elf dex, yet it's pawned off as a 'racial' bonus for an elf (or gnome/halfling, etc) to get bonus attacks. Halfling in its own helpfile lists having amazing dex for their attacks. *poke again* coders :P
Thilindel wrote:Halfling in its own helpfile lists having amazing dex for their attacks. *poke again* coders :P
What I think Kiryan meant is that halfling dex is so high and causes that extra attack so often that it's already at the cap for how often it can go off. Halfling mages sometimes get a kick out of basically getting double attack for free.
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Well, first, how do we know there's a cap? 10 hitroll (max innate halfling) is no big deal. 10 damroll ogre for max innate str can be brought up to 13 and probably more.
2ndly, the other point is that dwarves, humans, halfelves, etc, get no bonus for max_dex other than hitroll...big woop. Wearing multiple items just for ONE extra hitroll isn't worth it. There needs to be extra attacks given. That's the whole point. You wear Max_anything to get the higher race's bonus
2ndly, the other point is that dwarves, humans, halfelves, etc, get no bonus for max_dex other than hitroll...big woop. Wearing multiple items just for ONE extra hitroll isn't worth it. There needs to be extra attacks given. That's the whole point. You wear Max_anything to get the higher race's bonus
Yes, but is extra attacks the real benefit from wearing max_dex?
Possibly the racial benefit is not extra attacks but skills.
As Bimble I had about 124dex and fiddled with finding dex notches when bored. I didnt see that it effected the frequency of my "extra" attack at all. However I did feel that dex based skills were just off the hook for a halfling with 100 dex and 24 pts of max_dex. With a minimal skill level at level 20-35 I could pick every lock in 1-2 tries, pretty much the same for steal etc with the exception that steal took a few more skill levels to attain the same frequency of sucess. At level 46 with that much max_dex it was just crazy. I was no where near master skills and had huge steal/pick success rates.
So I have no formal numbers to tell, but I do believe it has a function - just not on racial based attacks. Maybe the attacks is based on more than one thing?
B
Possibly the racial benefit is not extra attacks but skills.
As Bimble I had about 124dex and fiddled with finding dex notches when bored. I didnt see that it effected the frequency of my "extra" attack at all. However I did feel that dex based skills were just off the hook for a halfling with 100 dex and 24 pts of max_dex. With a minimal skill level at level 20-35 I could pick every lock in 1-2 tries, pretty much the same for steal etc with the exception that steal took a few more skill levels to attain the same frequency of sucess. At level 46 with that much max_dex it was just crazy. I was no where near master skills and had huge steal/pick success rates.
So I have no formal numbers to tell, but I do believe it has a function - just not on racial based attacks. Maybe the attacks is based on more than one thing?
B
I was reading through all the posts to find helpful info. Am I understanding it right that elves, gnomes, and halflings get innate extra attacks? Is that like random rounds they get more than one attack or they always attack more often? I didn't really notice the elf mage hitting more but I wasn't trying to look really.
Also, does this maxdex mean that if you are um, a human, and then wear maxdex that would make you like an elf's dexterity, you would NOT gain the extra attack that the elf gets? If that is the case, what good is maxdex?
Also, does this maxdex mean that if you are um, a human, and then wear maxdex that would make you like an elf's dexterity, you would NOT gain the extra attack that the elf gets? If that is the case, what good is maxdex?
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- Sojourner
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I would assume that maxdex makes you assassinate better, backstab better and many other skills.
If you don't want to wear max_dex then don't. Races are already unbalanced in the favor of evil human females. I don't think it should be tipped more. Personally I have 106 dex, 102 agi. Simply in the hope of getting better dodge, backstab etc.
If you don't want to wear max_dex then don't. Races are already unbalanced in the favor of evil human females. I don't think it should be tipped more. Personally I have 106 dex, 102 agi. Simply in the hope of getting better dodge, backstab etc.
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Pisalos wrote:I was reading through all the posts to find helpful info. Am I understanding it right that elves, gnomes, and halflings get innate extra attacks? Is that like random rounds they get more than one attack or they always attack more often? I didn't really notice the elf mage hitting more but I wasn't trying to look really.
Also, does this maxdex mean that if you are um, a human, and then wear maxdex that would make you like an elf's dexterity, you would NOT gain the extra attack that the elf gets? If that is the case, what good is maxdex?
Only racial dexterity is going to cause an extra attack. Halfling dexterity is simply amazing, and I get an extra attack pretty consistently. My dex is 100 and I know it helps with ripostes.
Max dex is good for skills, and increasing your hitroll. Elves, drow and gnomes are in a much lower dexterity ballpark than halflings, so I can't speak on that much.
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