Dear Areas Sphere

[Dalar]

Thank you for taking the time to making BC harder and more mindnumbing with shitty rewards. Also, thank you for not addressing the other major problems in zone after a year or more of waiting.

Love,
Dartan

[Gormal]

Dear Dartan,

Please refrain from beating me to the bbs to flame the staff about stupid changes. I was looking forward to being the one to thank them for making this zone worse.

Love,
Gormal

[Shevarash]

Your feedback is useless to us unless you explain what is wrong and why, and why you think it should be changed.

[Gormal]

BC feedback has been provided for the longest time. Apparently someone saw fit to make certain rooms block now to waste another hour of our time though. I was assured that the eq changes were incredibly close to being implemented months ago... Personally I'm done with this zone until it positive changes are made.

[Yayaril]

8)

Took you long enough to figure out that that zone is a complete waste of time, Gormal. Too bad you didn't come to that realization sooner, you could have saved some time.

[teflor the ranger]

Areas Sphere Staff?

*cough*

[Dalar]

I sent one or two complete writeups about what is wrong and what needs to be fixed about a year ago. If you need me to post it on the BBS so it actually gets read, then I will make another one.

[Shevarash]

I was referring to the "stupid change", but feel free to post a writeup in general about BC.

[Ashiwi]

I didn't think the change made it that difficult... more like a speedbump in the road. We seemed to get through it just fine, and they didn't just change the ability to walk through that room without taking on the guards, they also changed the pop so they wouldn't all reappear on us in the middle of it. It really seem all that much harder.

[Gormal]

The point is that it didn't make it that much harder, its that a change was made to the zone increasing the difficulty in a zone already in dire need of changes because its already too difficult for the rewards. Plus there are plenty of other small issues... aka Bel's door.

[Maedor]

First off, i really enjoy this zone.

But, I'd like to see bleed not proc on misses. And the perm dark room makes the zone take another 45minutes, because you are forced to ress mid zone. Well, Bel's door...

EQ wise-
I have no idea why the musp invasion bracer (which can be done easily with 2 people), is leaps and bounds above any other wrist item, including the bc bracelet..PLUS the bracelet is sexist

And a better save, or a prot on the amulet would be very nice. Right now it's on par with the musp necklaces...which iare also done often with 2 people.

Robe-lose the !neut flag, and mebbe add a prot to it, and lower the weight like..a lot-nice item really

The dagger sometimes procs and dies before a single round. I'm going to test this further and report.

I'd love to see some rares on the rings. This a) encourages people to not twink the rings..and b) adds more incentive to do the zone.

Ok, there are a few thoughts...thanks again to those you went today

[Eilistraee]

If the issue regarding Bel's door is the one you encountered this evening, as well as one of the recent past problems, then take heart that it has been addressed and the repair should be in for the next run.

Just be sure to pay attention to what you're told.

[Dalar]

If the issue regarding Bel's door is the one you encountered this evening, as well as one of the recent past problems, then take heart that it has been addressed and the repair should be in for the next run.

Just be sure to pay attention to what you're told.

I know what you mean. Before the Bel door change was implemented, the seals never disappeared on me like that. I understand what I was told, but I also understand that the same method I used (one person dropping all) worked before. When the seals didn't become glowing seals, I had to go into each room w/ a macro and pick them up and drop them for the event to load correctly.

What really pissed me off yesterday was that the area gods decided to put in an ATD at the gateguards without addressing the equipment problems. Also, I believe the gateguards were never made !repop because of some excuse like "oh the equipment calculator calculates it for the prisoner quest" or "we like to think kia intended it this way, so we won't change it".

[Dalar]

As for coding changes to BC, please fix the bug that causes bleed procs to occur on misses and make the other BC items uber like the dagger.

[kiryan]

i have no idea how the points in BC were calculated. I always assumed they were calculated as if you skipped the rings and gate house because the rewards seemed a bit on the low side. Since they were obviously part of the calculation (evidenced by making gatehouse !twink) why didnt you fix rings? you can skip the rings fairly easily cutting at least 2 hours off... load a stationary patrol at the secret at the end of the first ring and in front of the n on the second ring and make them block down and north respectively.

I think it was a good idea to make the gatehouse guards block the down, since that was really twinky (and dangerous cuz someone could die and have a corpse up while 14 people were down and unable to go back). kinda like protecting us from our own stupidity.

I think that the magically dark silent rooms need to go... someone could die in there, quit out in there, ect which would be permanently lost corpse / eq... wouldnt it be perfectly fine just to make them light and silent? its not like we don't know whats coming...

I'm glad the seals issue is being addressed, I hope that its not addressed by simply being told which seal to drop last and being SOL if you didn't pay attention remembered it wrong or whatever. This is just asking for a group to F up and screwe over 75+ hours of work (15*5).... Its really too big of a penalty, and while its an epic zone that should probably only be done by competent people, it would be very frustrating. It really needs to be relatively idiot proof.... wasn't spob semi idiot proofed recently? what was the rationale for that?

[moritheil]

i have no idea how the points in BC were calculated. I always assumed they were calculated as if you skipped the rings and gate house because the rewards seemed a bit on the low side. Since they were obviously part of the calculation (evidenced by making gatehouse !twink) why didnt you fix rings? you can skip the rings fairly easily cutting at least 2 hours off... load a stationary patrol at the secret at the end of the first ring and in front of the n on the second ring and make them block down and north respectively.

I think it was a good idea to make the gatehouse guards block the down, since that was really twinky (and dangerous cuz someone could die and have a corpse up while 14 people were down and unable to go back). kinda like protecting us from our own stupidity.

I think that the magically dark silent rooms need to go... someone could die in there, quit out in there, ect which would be permanently lost corpse / eq... wouldnt it be perfectly fine just to make them light and silent? its not like we don't know whats coming...

I'm glad the seals issue is being addressed, I hope that its not addressed by simply being told which seal to drop last and being SOL if you didn't pay attention remembered it wrong or whatever. This is just asking for a group to F up and screwe over 75+ hours of work (15*5).... Its really too big of a penalty, and while its an epic zone that should probably only be done by competent people, it would be very frustrating. It really needs to be relatively idiot proof.... wasn't spob semi idiot proofed recently? what was the rationale for that?

Not to be obnoxious, but do epic zones, being the best, necessarily need to give out every point in the form of reward? I thought things were supposed to be highly nonlinear in terms of risk/reward higher up.

[Ashiwi]

Not every one, but it would be awfully nice for groups to have more reason to bid on !rogue gear. As tough as BC is, the rogue/bard only dagger shouldn't be the main reason for mages and clerics to go.

[kiryan]

don't give every point out in the form of reward?

i don't get it big dan. how else would they give out every point? I suppose we could have !!!!prestige!!!! zones except prestige isn't really used much in game yet.

*****************

it is funny how fast gatehouse was made !twink considering the other zone issues weren't addressed.

I know what you area guys are thinking, and your right we were going to bitch regardless of whether gate house was fixed now or later. but why did you fix the twinky, yet dangerous to twink, thing and ignore the seals which ARE ACTUALLY BJORKED. Its not like making us fight the gate house increases the overall difficulty of the zone... it probably added what an extra hour this past trip an extra 20 minutes next trip now that we expect it?

Which brings up another thing... were the players warned about the change? How many times do we have to ask for a little visibility on zone changes? Is it too much to ask that you put something in the news when you mess with a zone in a way thats detrimental to players? I assume this was one of the driving reasons to copyover on thursday night so the change would be in for saturday?

3/12/2005 The inhabitants of BC now protect both entrances to the citadel.

that would've been a really nice entry in news.

Thanks for continuing to work on the zone. still my favorite zone.

[Llaaldara]

Not every one, but it would be awfully nice for groups to have more reason to bid on !rogue gear. As tough as BC is, the rogue/bard only dagger shouldn't be the main reason for mages and clerics to go.

Well said Ash.

[moritheil]

don't give every point out in the form of reward?

i don't get it big dan. how else would they give out every point? I suppose we could have !!!!prestige!!!! zones except prestige isn't really used much in game yet.

I'm saying that there is no compulsion to use up every point. Although a lot of people do seem to have gone mad over the min/maxing of items (re: original Izan's).

[kiryan]

don't give every point out in the form of reward?

i don't get it big dan. how else would they give out every point? I suppose we could have !!!!prestige!!!! zones except prestige isn't really used much in game yet.

I'm saying that there is no compulsion to use up every point. Although a lot of people do seem to have gone mad over the min/maxing of items (re: original Izan's).

oh... well im not going to disagree with you on using up all the points / non linear risk vs reward and all, but if you think Izan's doesn't still make a mockery of the eq calc'r then your funny.

[Dalar]

yea, i'm guessing they did the same with swamps. shit, even randar does it. eq calc'er is too easy to abuse.

[Sarell]

I actually don't think BC rewards are far off what they should be. You get a couple of really nice items. The gear calc isn't horribly abused.

I think izan's makes a total mockery of the calc. WAY too many possible top items in there. The first round of downgrades helped a bit taking the edge off some of the more ridiculous items. Hitpoints that were cut from regular older zones are going through the roof again with items from izna and other new zones.

Spob is in exactly the same boat. It's the 1% load x 100 items trick on the calc. You always get something far more awesome than you should. The AC in that place and other new items is ridiculous aswell, 20/15AC velvet mage robes and stuff, it is more than most suits of platemail in the game.

CC diamondine needs a boost even if you make that area of CC !tele to compensate. Remeber CC was made when fold didn't exist. Would encourage people to do the whole zone.

Scorps is perfect. For me, the amount of stuff you get for the average time and effort / group you put into scorps it seems just about right. A couple of really nice items, a couple of decent items.

Clouds is junk until storm bracelet loads and then is so easy to get for the best bracelet. Make storm bracelet !locate, give combat amulet a little boost for evil haul.

Hulburg could use some love on the end items.

TTF is pretty easy for several top items including with the small change.

TF has some quest items.
SF has some quest items.
CC has some quest items.
Brass has some quest items.
Nizari has some quest items.
Quartz has some quest items.
SG has some quest items.

UD has a variety of fun little ninja jobs and some quest items.

UM2 used to just have quest items and now a neat mantle, tho what's with vortex?

FP has and AWESOME earring for a not very hard zone.

Roots is reasonable for how many people it takes and the time it takes, that's a pretty nice belt still. Izan's belt is better of course.

IC2 is pretty darn hard, has some very nice items however. I like IC2, concerned about fighting the dragons and rhemos in there now might just be a tad ridiculous.

Magma is epicly silly. Again I think it suffers from the problem of people trying to change / downgrade a zone to fight player tactics, there is nothing wrong with tactics, you have to be a good player to use them. I thought when the boots were changed to 2 2 PFF that was a good incentive to do it, as good as musp boots except a bit differently configured. Then they got made pff 2dam, totally outclassed by musp/icebears. I'm not sure what the deal is with the UBER hitter ring from there, i hear a group of people twinked it then it got taken out of the game. Good for them, legend has it it is rare load on dragon now, that would be a good idea.

Vault is kinda fun still!

I havn't done meilich yet, but i hear instead of giving it a little boost, it was deemed appropriate to give it a boost in the form of 2 TOP end items. How bout just one?

Oakvale has some needed quest items, some okay items, a couple of nice rares and some ridiculously stupidly rare questing ninja antics. Not bad!

Seelie might have a tad too many top items. Maybe bring the AC on 3dam cloaks, belts etc into line since they already are the top in terms of hit/dam. Not to mention you get some nice caster stuff aswell.

Jot isn't bad, some neat loads from time to time, moderately hard, good quest items.

Demi has some neat questing going on, a couple of mediocre items load in chest, ring of raw energy is still completely silly, 0HP from 50HP isnt balancing it is just messing people over so you can plevel your squid, shuold be 50 by now, change it back plz :)

Trollbark questing is pretty cool fun for everyone! Takes a while, enjoyable tho.

Bloodstone needs to wake up from its bad dream and get rebuilding. Imagine what it must look like to someone who wasn't involved in the RP.

Avernus has some pretty darn nice rares, however amulet of sight is pwned by xexos' 10p potions, and gloves should annhilate musp gloves for the difficulty of that battle. 2 2 pfc with AC at least.

Paracs orb I have no idea why was made rare (well i kinad do *touch*) however the fixes to stop ninjaing it make it much harder to do, and it is needed in a lot of quests and isn't over powered on its own. Make it load all the time again. Bag of holding isn't that good. Scour is prolly pretty hard now that you have to do it with senators aswell, upgrade tit ring!

Gith, the sword should go back to loading on supreme. It's too hard to smite in clouds for what it is. There is nothing else in gith, couple quest bits, gaunts of suckiness. The token isn't much chop. The sword is really only a bit of a laugh and a quest item. Gith invasion is fun.

Astral has essential quest items, a few toys, is pretty easy and fun evening work!

ET, those earrings sure enough have become the stock mage issue items.

DS has too much exp in it. Spread it between the rest of the zones.

Musp invasion is still just completely and utterly ridiculous. You can locate to see if invasion is up, then you can get an average of 5 of the best items in the game in an hour with a group of 10 if you're tight. With 2 people you can get some pretty amazing stuff.


Ultimately, I think what needs to be done is a rule - no matter how hard your new zone is, you CANNOT have more than 3 items that would be considered the top in their slot. (except tia cos tia is a mythical institution when you should have 1 per greater class) Also, all MAJOR zones should have one item that is desirable not just as a quest item, even if you have to 1% load a diamondine that is 4dam 20HP, so be it, every big zone should have 1 item. That item I just described may sound ridiculous in stats, but it sure would be WAY harder to get than anything in izans.

[Vaprak]

Thanks very much for your constructive feedback Sarrel.

[Maedor]

Why does musp invasion load 10x as often as jot invasion and have 10items instead of the 4-5 that musp loads. It's not that much harder either..shrug

I never quite understood that one. Make invasion rare again:)

(and downgrade all the silly statted items ie marble bracer, and musp diamond/ruby etc necklaces) Fights that are done wtih 2 people shouldn't come anywhere close to being the best items in the game. Especially when they easily outclass rewards from a zone like bc that takes 8hours and has 5rewards. And why do bc points go to the dumb prisioner quest?

Also-the downgrade to the dagger seems a bit severe especially in light of the recent upgrade to bc itself. I'll give more details if you want, but I think it's pretty obvious:)

Oh, and unless you want bc done in 4hours this weekend, you might want to look at Kiryan's post and prevent some major twinkage *wink*

Ok-im done for now

[Dalar]

The only 3 decent items from BC are the amulet/sleeves/dagger. Dagger is in its own league.

Sleeves is good, but if you rearrange your set you can still have sv petri and good hit/dam

Amulet is good, but there are so many sv br items that it really boils down to a little extra ac/hp.

[Maedor]

The only 3 decent items from BC are the amulet/sleeves/dagger. Dagger is in its own league.

Sleeves is good, but if you rearrange your set you can still have sv petri and good hit/dam

Amulet is good, but there are so many sv br items that it really boils down to a little extra ac/hp.

With the apparent downgrade to the dagger, it's honestly not in a league of it's own. The dagger often dies within a round or two of proccing..dies instantly if tanking, and sometimes dies instantly upon being summoned. So basically, bc got it's eq downgraded when we asked for upgrades :P

But hey, at least the zone (gatehouse) got upgraded

[Burmadapig]

Beef up fights > dg'ing items

The Musp fights should NOT be able to be 2 manned.

[Maedor]

Beef up fights > dg'ing items

The Musp fights should NOT be able to be 2 manned.

When a significant number of the bracers/necklaces were 2manned, I think they need mroe than beefed up fights.

Also-I'd like to see *any* wrist item in the game come close to being as good as the bracer..seriosuly area peoples..this bracer loads way too often, is too easy to get, and has way awesome stats. Downgrade it a bit AND make it untwinkable.

15hp 10ac -3svpara is my suggested stat-even with these stats, its on par with sylphs, silver bands, bc bracelets, surt bracelets...

..and sylphs are harder to get
..and silver bands
...and bc bracelets
....and surt bracelets

Yet the musp one >>>>>> all by a longshot.

[Ashiwi]

Ultimately, I think what needs to be done is a rule - no matter how hard your new zone is, you CANNOT have more than 3 items that would be considered the top in their slot. (except tia cos tia is a mythical institution when you should have 1 per greater class) Also, all MAJOR zones should have one item that is desirable not just as a quest item, even if you have to 1% load a diamondine that is 4dam 20HP, so be it, every big zone should have 1 item. That item I just described may sound ridiculous in stats, but it sure would be WAY harder to get than anything in izans.

I totally agree with this idea in spirit, and have been urging staff to consider implementing something like this for some time. It's an almost crucial aspect of having multiple zones worth the time investment, and having multiple zones worth doing only benefits the game overall. How nice it would be to log into acc and hear multiple zone suggestions, instead of everybody needing to do the same old zones over and over and over.

Whoops, did I say "same old zones?" I meant "Izan's." Or maybe "SPoB." Or "Clouds," if storm loaded.

[Sarell]

I don't think BC dagger is the best item for a pure power player. But it sure is fun. If you are going for damage output on your rogue, you will be circling, which means when your BC dagger procs, a fair bit of the time you will be left only using one dagger for a round or two, not good. Especially on those occasions where you circle, it procs and then dies. So you are single handing and dont even have the floating dagger doing a bit more.

[Gura]

I don't think BC dagger is the best item for a pure power player. But it sure is fun. If you are going for damage output on your rogue, you will be circling, which means when your BC dagger procs, a fair bit of the time you will be left only using one dagger for a round or two, not good. Especially on those occasions where you circle, it procs and then dies. So you are single handing and dont even have the floating dagger doing a bit more.

#trig {Your blah blah dagger flies out of your hand} {wield khanjari}

[Pril]

I don't think BC dagger is the best item for a pure power player. But it sure is fun. If you are going for damage output on your rogue, you will be circling, which means when your BC dagger procs, a fair bit of the time you will be left only using one dagger for a round or two, not good. Especially on those occasions where you circle, it procs and then dies. So you are single handing and dont even have the floating dagger doing a bit more.

#trig {Your blah blah dagger flies out of your hand} {wield khanjari}

Gura that trigger doesn't help you when yer in 2 rounds of circle lag...

[kiryan]

pretty much 100% agree with what ashiwi and sarell and dartan said.

the dagger has come down a lot in power but is still an amazing item. I would not remove a khanjari mid ferocity proc in order to rewield a BC dagger however and the circle lag can't wield thing would be annoying.

turn down the proc rate on dagger turn up the length it stays floating so circle lag / rewielding isn't as big of an issue... then again, we don't want to see one rogue float 6 daggers out there and wielding 2 khanjaris.

[rer]

turn down the proc rate on dagger turn up the length it stays floating so circle lag / rewielding isn't as big of an issue... then again, we don't want to see one rogue float 6 daggers out there and wielding 2 khanjaris.

*drool* That would be fun :P More than overpowered, but fun!! :P

[Gura]

i got an idea. how about u switch the procs on khanjari and bc dagger. that might be fair. would balance out the losers who wussed the quest too.