Evil races defunct

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:38 pm

CC died because Lazz stopped logging in. took a while.

I don't know that the ratio of evil to good has changed all that much, however, at raer times evils would have as many players as goodies. This never happens anymore and I doubt they even come close to 50% anymore.

as targsk said, there are more than enough high level evil race characters on the goodie side. Probably at least 30% of good races have at least 1 level 50 evil race, and probably 15% have more than 3.
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:47 pm

kiryan wrote:so i guess its not a question of how to save the evil races. its a question of how to attract and retain new players.


You got my point 100% Kiryan! :)
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Postby Lahgen » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:02 pm

If I were in charge of revitalizing the evil side, I would suggest that people (preferably experienced players) roll up what I call "infrastructure classes" i.e. elementalists, shamans, other types of classes that can reliably solo xp and twink low/mid level gear, and then they can serve to help more specialized classes level up.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'
Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone
Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'

Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby Vigis » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:17 pm

I'd start small. Like in Scardale. I was playing around with my little evil human the other night and did a shout for good or evil race chars to consent me for exp. 2 evils hit me right away. One of them (I believe) had some experience on the mud since he wasn't decked in newbie gear but also didn't have gear I'd expect to see on a lvl 50. The little Ogre told me it was his first time on the mud. So we all spent time killing, memming, and asking/answering questions. In the end, both of the evils walked away with a piece of eq that was better than what they had when they started and the true newbie vowed to come back.

We don't purge new players on this mud, but sometimes when we try to help them we are a little too generous. When I first rolled for the evil side, it would drive me a little nuts to have lvl 40 to 50 players popping in all the time to give me gear or spell me up, or just to see how I was getting along. I admit that I don't have the same perspective as somebody who is new to the game, but I would rather have had somebody near my own level to hang out with so we could get ourselves killed in some totally stupid situation, and THEN beg those level 50 heroes to come rescue us :)

Now that I've rambled more than necessary, I'll pitch out an idea. People interested in helping out the evil pbase should roll up a new character who is capable of grouping with new evils. When you aren't doing anything, glance at the who list. If you see a low level evil on, log on the little alt. It only takes a look anymore to tell if a person is a true newbie or if it is somebody's alt.

Same idea could apply for obtaining new blood on either side.

*shrug* just some thoughts.
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Postby Yasden » Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:53 pm

kiryan wrote:...and evils who never thought they would ever play goody forsake evils.


This has already begun, a la Scions.

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Postby Vigis » Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:09 am

Taken tonight:

< > who good 1-20
Listing of the Staff
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
<None>

There are 0 visible staff member(s) on.

Listing of the Mortals!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[13 Enc] Digion (Human)
[19 Rog] Riwer (Human)
[12 War] Tahi (Barbarian) (RP)
[ 3 Bar] Itma (Human) (RP)
[19 Nec] Mattah (Human)
[11 Ran] Milashi (Grey Elf)
[13 Ill] Mebatopol (Gnome)
[ 6 Dru] Sasheonmasanaen (Grey Elf)
[17 Enc] Gindipple (Gnome)

There are 10 mortal(s) on.

Total visible players: 10.

[RETURN for more, q to quit]
Record number of players on this boot: 84.

< 99h/373H 218p/218P 112v/112V >
< >
You have finished memorizing earth darts.

< 101h/373H 218p/218P 112v/112V >
< > who evil 1-20
Listing of the Staff
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
<None>

There are 0 visible staff member(s) on.

Listing of the Mortals!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[ 6 Cle] Poddizata (Duergar)

There are 1 mortal(s) on.

Total visible players: 1.
Record number of players on this boot: 84.
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Postby Sarell » Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:32 am

If a stack of goodies went to evil then neither side of the fence could zone, then the whole mud could get bored and leave! :) Need more players not more bonuses for evils.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:33 am

Players that already have evils need to play them. That would fix the problem.
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Postby Ssryth » Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:07 pm

Perhaps we no longer have enough players to separate the good and evil races... lift restrictions in grouping and speed up the introduction of kits. This seemed to work well on homeland.

Ssryth.
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Times have changed

Postby Todrael » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:41 pm

There is no more distinction between good and evil race players. The MUD has existed for long enough time without a pwipe that everyone who wishes to test either "side" of the game has been allowed to do so. Evils have goodies, and goodies have evils. The unique brand of loyalty once required to be a zonable evil has been eliminated.

Evils play goodies because they get an assoc chat with people on it. They get to go to zones with leaders who know what they're doing, other players who know what they're doing, and often, the people who used to be their friends. Goodies don't play their evils because there are no groups, the assoc channel is dead unless you're in Malevolent Order, and everything has changed.

The only thing left to do is to remove the unnatural barrier between the races and allow good-raced characters to group with evil-raced characters on an unrestricted basis. They're all the same people, anyways.

Is this the solution I want? No. But is it the right solution?

I can't think of anything else that would work as well.
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Postby Lahgen » Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:03 pm

The evils will never die, as long as the imms make it available to play.

If people prefer goodie to evil, that's their business. Nobody said that the evil side had to be equal to the goodie side. Heck, some people might even prefer evil because of how it currently is.
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Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby Gura » Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:03 pm

kiryan wrote:CC died because Lazz stopped logging in. took a while.


that definitely isnt true. when lazz stopped logging in turg took over and we were active for quite some time after...doing weekly guild only zones and everything. cc took big hits when euros couldnt connect...and people just moved on.
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Postby Latreg » Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:28 pm

Lahgen wrote:The evils will never die, as long as the imms make it available to play.

If people prefer goodie to evil, that's their business. Nobody said that the evil side had to be equal to the goodie side. Heck, some people might even prefer evil because of how it currently is.


You are correct and if people choose to not group with goodies when playing evils they will still have that choice. If you love solo play and not zoning, by all means play an evil.
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Re: Times have changed

Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:56 am

Todrael wrote:There is no more distinction between good and evil race players. The MUD has existed for long enough time without a pwipe that everyone who wishes to test either "side" of the game has been allowed to do so. Evils have goodies, and goodies have evils. The unique brand of loyalty once required to be a zonable evil has been eliminated.

Evils play goodies because they get an assoc chat with people on it. They get to go to zones with leaders who know what they're doing, other players who know what they're doing, and often, the people who used to be their friends. Goodies don't play their evils because there are no groups, the assoc channel is dead unless you're in Malevolent Order, and everything has changed.

The only thing left to do is to remove the unnatural barrier between the races and allow good-raced characters to group with evil-raced characters on an unrestricted basis. They're all the same people, anyways.

Is this the solution I want? No. But is it the right solution?

I can't think of anything else that would work as well.


Bleh if that happens trolls better get a serious downgrade to their agility.

How a 300 lb 7 ft tall creature can have the agility of an elf is beyond me.
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Postby Yasden » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:00 am

This is exactly why allowing evils to group with all goodies would simply mean the outright destruction of them. Everyone would ditch their casters for yuan/drow and barb warriors would go for trolls.

Not to mention a huge downgrade, if not complete removal, of bonus notches and innates to "balance" them.

It might seem like the obvious solution, but it's by far the wisest.

Oh...and D&D trolls are considered "magical" creatures because of their "superhuman" abilities. Just an FYI.
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Postby Marrus » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:40 am

Anyone who ditched their caster for a yuan or a drow deserves to be laughed at unless they want a yuan cleric. Grey elves are by far the most ridiculous race in this game. High agility, infra, outdoor sneak that can be upgraded to perm sneak, outrageous int. There is little they dont have.
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:44 am

Marrus wrote:There is little they dont have.


Hitpoints. We don't have hitpoints.

And a tragically flawed sense of fashion.

We don't have hitpoints, and we don't have a tragically flawed sense of fashion.

Hrmmm.....

Nods, I'd say we're rather well balanced.
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Postby Marrus » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:51 am

The hitpoint loss elves suffer from is neglible, especially for a caster class. In fact, it could be argued that elves not only make the best casters but also the best tanks. *roll*
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Postby Nilan » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:55 am

Well,

We had some damn fun tonight on the EVIL side. Teguh and Nuggog did a great job leading zones. It was alot of fun. Everyone was real patient and we all had a good time.

Heck, if folks stay this patient all the time, I might even try my hand at leading some of the zones i have logged/mapped out :)

As far as the humans grouping with evils, long ago I thought this was a very bad idea. It did nothing for evils, other than draw the evil pupulation away to the goodies. Why make evil if ya can just make a goodie evil/neutal human to group with goodies and occassionally evils if they needed it.

I say get rid or the humans grouping with evils and bring back old outcast system to all those humans that really want to group with evils. Then people that want to play with evils will make evils. The way things are set up now, that human grouping with evils only benefits humans, it does nothing for evils really. What goodie group would add a evil to their zone group when they got goodies and humans (neut/evil) to choose from? None.

Remove that/or for those that want to play human to group with evils, i say bring back outcasting.

My opinion,

Nilan
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Postby Gizep » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:56 am

I tend to agree with nilan on this, as much as i like being a human with the flexability, I think the old outcast code rocked, although there is totally no reason to even outcast them now, just don't allow it. Then if evil dies, it dies, and it's because they don't have the pbase anymore.
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Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:16 pm

oh your right gura i forgot about turg

todrael makes a compelling argument for eliminating the grouping restrictions. at this point they are basically the same people. I don't know if i agree that we should combine the two.

on trolls. can you imagine taking 1300 damage from one spell as the main tank? nearly every evil race tank has a significant liability, trolls fire, ogres agility, duegar/drow ultra. With the agility upgrade years ago, yuanti became the best evil race tank, but very few recognized it. if you fear that a certain evil race will dominate certain classes you should be looking at yuanti-clerics.

on elves. best race ever for int caster. arguably the best rogue (not khanjari twink, rogue), and a viable tank. also, the natural ranger.
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Postby Latreg » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:59 pm

like Nilan and others said, evil humans, great for humans bad for evils, why wouldn't you play an evil human and benefit from both groups? you'd be silly not to.
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Postby Marrus » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:13 pm

Because humans suck, and now that evils are completely gutted who would want to roll a human to group with them? For what? Brass. Gimme a break.
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Postby sok » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:26 am

i rolled a human because i wanted to see the kanjari proc. but in general i group w/ evils. i think i have lead 1 goodie group and have been in 2 other goodie group.

i log my evil from time to time but it's nothing w/ the game or the playerbase, it's that i can't stand 6 hr zones. i can lead the smaller zone but whats the point of doing mid-level zone for eq that's not worth wearing. that is why i now really only do xp and maybe join a group. but rl has capture me and kanjari's proc is starting to lost it's once magical hold on me.

solutions to fixing evil.

1. attract more player to the mud
2. leaders need to be patience (tolerate more disorganized, less zone experience player)
3. do zone regardless of the eq
4. rent out your char, dont afk (this is just my pet peeve)

i dont really know what else. but i dont have it in me to be any type of leader to lead evil back into glory cuz i'm no longer a mud addict.

sok
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Postby Raiwen » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:09 pm

This is not helping the evil pbase: evils playing goodies.

Please don't pretend that you're playing your goodie to eventually help out the evil pbase. That's silly. When I log on and try and start a group, the first thing I do is "who sort evil". If you're not on that list, then I'm not going to send a tell to you for a group. I don't think goodies try and find evils to bring into their groups, so why should evils?

I think the gods should bring back outcasting.

If you're playing a human in order to help out the evils, then it should mean something. Get outcasted!

As it stands now, the only times I get a tell from a human is to join an xp group I'm in. Do I get tells for zonage? no. I'm tired of being your xp whore at the expense of a dwindling evil player base.

There are a few evil converts playing humans that I respect. They flat out told me, "I'm not playing an evil anymore because of blah-blah-blah." But the ones that pretend to be on the evil side? If you want to help out the evil pbase, then WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A GOODIE? It doesn't make much sense.

Bring back outcasting.

If it kills the evil pbase, then so be it. It's better than this covert death by people pretending to being helping out.

Humans being allowed to group with evils will eventually destroy the evil pbase. What incentive does a human have to continually group with evils? The rewards are greater on the goodie side at the moment.
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Postby Mertak » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:11 pm

For what it's worth, I missed outcasting from when I first returned. I don't know whether OC characters should be allowed to join evil guilds, but BG would certainly become much livelier. Bring back OC, make OC an available arguement on the "who" list, make them be barred from the ultra goodie towns, barred from grouping with Pallies and Rangers, and let's see if that helps.

My $0.02...

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Postby Azenilsee » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:43 am

Outcast does nothing for the neutral/evil humans tho. They're probably going to be worse off than being evilrace.
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Postby Raiwen » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:34 pm

Azenilsee wrote:Outcast does nothing for the neutral/evil humans tho. They're probably going to be worse off than being evilrace.


Oh no! you mean they have to pick a side?!

Under an outcast system it's really simple.

If you want to play with the evil races, you either:
  1. play an evil race character
  2. get your human outcasted
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Postby Marrus » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:24 pm

This is silly. You actually think forcing humans to outcast to be evil groupable only is a viable solution? Why in the world would ANYONE make such a dumb decision? If they wanted to be evil-race groupable only why wouldn't they just use an evil race race then? Humans SUCK guy. Furthermore there aren't nearly enough humans that group with evils to save evils anyhow. There are tons of people out there with high-level, zoneable evils but we don't play them. Address the reason why we don't play or suffer on with things as they are.
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Postby Nekelet » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:24 pm

I for one would be strongly against the outcast suggestion - Assuming that necro, lich and anti would be forced outcast as it used to be.

leader Gsays 'Only tanks available are pallys - please ungroup Nek. kthx'


I tell you.. the real solution is 2 new spells. PfW and PfL. Figure those out and the aging population will be able to play more...
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Postby Vigis » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:02 pm

c 'PfW' me

You begin chanting 'Protection from Work'

As you complete your spell your middle finger rises of its own accord aiming itself directly at Your Boss!

Your Boss smirks in satisfaction as his firing hits you in the chest.

You feel the money slowly draining from your account.

alert
flee

You are BROKE and unable to do anything at the moment!
Nerox tells you 'Good deal, the other tanks I have don't wanna do it, and since your my special suicidal tank i figure you don't mind one bit!'



Alurissi tells you 'aren't you susposed to get sick or something and not beable to make tia so i can go? :P'
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Postby Vaprak » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:09 pm

I thought PfW was Protection from Wife.
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Postby Raiwen » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:33 pm

Marrus wrote:You actually think forcing humans to outcast to be evil groupable only is a viable solution? Why in the world would ANYONE make such a dumb decision? If they wanted to be evil-race groupable only why wouldn't they just use an evil race race then?


that's exactly the point. Outcasting would get rid of all those "semi-evils". It will make you choose to play evil or to play good. None of this

"I'm only playing my goodie for eq, but I'm really here to help my evil race friends."

or

"I just want to test the goodie race waters, so I'm gonna roll a human so I can still group with my evil race friends."

Evils are dying because we don't zone as often as goodies. However, the above is what is driving the evil race players away in droves.
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Postby Llaaldara » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:42 pm

Marrus wrote:This is silly. You actually think forcing humans to outcast to be evil groupable only is a viable solution? Why in the world would ANYONE make such a dumb decision? If they wanted to be evil-race groupable only why wouldn't they just use an evil race race then? Humans SUCK guy. Furthermore there aren't nearly enough humans that group with evils to save evils anyhow. There are tons of people out there with high-level, zoneable evils but we don't play them. Address the reason why we don't play or suffer on with things as they are.


Feez, Outcasts where of any goodie race. Not just humans.
But this isn't the issue people. Because this has absolutely nothing to do with the overall problem of TorilMUD, which is LACK OF PLAYERS PERIOD.

'Fixing evils' isn't the solution to fixing the bigger problem at large. Toril as a whole is loosing players. This is what needs to be addressed. Not the evil’s player base that died almost 2 years a ago. Stealing players from goodies does nothing but reduce goodie numbers, which in turn does nothing but turn goodies into a declining player base similar to Evils themselves. Understand? You’ll turn Goodies into the new Evils. We want both to grow, not just one. Both must grow or we all die.


So, what can players do to help the game as a whole?

Get a Friend to Try the MUD.
Don’t just point them to it, get them hooked on it. Talk about it all the time around them. Tell them about the great adventures you’ve had on it. Get them into it, don’t just point them to it and say, ‘Try this 10 year old text based game that has no images or sound cuz it’s free.”

Spread the Word.
Find out where old Mud friends are and what they are up to. Let em know Toril is still alive, and how it misses them, and how much better it is then before, especially for the working adults of today.

Support Returning Players
Old players who haven’t played in years, or players who quit because you or everyone else was giving them hell, give them another chance. Give them the benefit of the doubt for once. If you have issues with them, address them to their face like an adult and resolve the situation.

Be a MENTOR.
Teach someone in a kind fashion how to play the game because the reward you get is another dedicated and active player. Don’t berate them for not knowing every intricate detail. Look at the immortals thread in General Discussion. How many of you raved about someone because they took your newbie self out and showed you around, instead of being a condescending jerk to you about what you didn’t know?

Contribute Positively to the MUD’s Development , or learn to STFU.
If you’re not going to put in your own creative time and effort, then you need to loose the attitude on folks who do. You aren’t paying for the right to play here, but the staff sure is with your continual crap. If you’re that upset and that angry about something, unplug and step away until you can express it like a respectful adult. Take a break until you can come back with a better attitude or something constructive to say. You’re not going to make your life better by giving the staff of TorilMUD as much crap as you possibly can. They are human beings, perhaps some of you should try acting like one yourselves.

Be Civil with Each Other on the BBS.
As was pointed out already, prospective players, new and old players alike, often judge a game by their player’s behavior on the game’s Forums. Everyone has their moments, even me, but dragging it on and on and on for months and months over every thread isn’t the way to go about it. The BBS is a form of advertising. Do it justice or get lost.

GO VOTE!
No excuses. DO it NOW. Do it again in 4 hours, and then again and again. Give a damn about your MUD of choice by supporting it.

Show your Toril Spirit and how much you appreciate the staff for continuing to provide you with a game you’ve played longer then any other by doing your part!!

Do Your Part.
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Postby Marrus » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:47 pm

Raiwen wrote:Evils are dying because we don't zone as often as goodies. However, the above is what is driving the evil race players away in droves.


No, blaming the humans for evils leaving evils is wrong and unproductive. Address the reason why evils would feel the need to play a goodie or a human (so that they could group with a goodie).

Here, let me just tell you: There isn't enough zoneable talent on evil side any more. They lack the critical mass of players needed for capable leaders to find it worth their time to log on and form. And, as we all know, without capable leaders around players tend to get bored and not log either. It's a vicious cycle. If goodies aren't careful it will happen to them too. Hence why I think the racial grouping restrictions are counter-productiive and out-dated.

Remove them already.
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Postby Lahgen » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:03 pm

I like the grouping restrictions. Otherwise it'd be like every other mud out there:

Gary Greyelf: "Daryll Drow, would you be so kind to accompany me to the Caverns of Doom?"

Daryll Drow: "But of course, friend."

Terry Troll: "GRAHH! ME JOIN!"

Gary Greyelf: "Sure. The more the merrier!"

As for humans, well, it seems to me like it is there so as to give a new reason to play them. A baseline character that is capable of helping out both sides of the mud.

Seems to me that, if you put outcast in, you should allow them to go to evilrace hometowns.

But then, some people out there might go outcast even if it restricts them from all towns, for the +badass factor.

That said, perhaps it's time for the mud to spit the lukewarm from its mouth...
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby Vahok » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:23 pm

I think the outcast idea isn't going to solve the pbase problem. In fact, if anything, I think it will hurt evils more. How often has a human player filled in for a zone need? I personally have done it many times. I play both pure goodie characters, evil humans (both sides of the fence) and a pure evil character. Is the solution to limit me and who I choose to adventure with? I really enjoy zoning and exping with evils. Honestly, I have more fun now because I have choices on what to do with my characters. I have met new friends on the evil side, which is cool. As it stood before, I would have never zoned as an evil I'd wager.

Sad to say, but the pbase is dropping period. So evils and goodies are feeling the crunch. I used to play about 40 hours a week...now due to RL, I play maybe 15 hours a week. Willing to bet, this is the case for many of us. Face facts...we getting old peeps!

If players out there are so concerned with people playing evils...convince them to play them. Stress the positives in playing evils or goodies. A negative rule (outcasting) will ultimately lead to negative results. No point in limiting others while you do it. Some players are goodie exclusive, some players are evil exclusive, and some do both. The real problem is pbase in general, not how someone chooses to play their characters.
Meatshield
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Postby kiryan » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:37 pm

eliminating racial grouping restrictions will just merge the pbase and it will still continue to shrink. you create a temporary solution for half the pbase and you create a lot of additional headache.

outcasting accomplishes nothing. people have already choosen a side. its the side with all the players, the good race side. I left evils over a year ago and while i remained available to evil race groups (i rerolled my elf cleric human) i gave up on them in general. as i said before the human groupable evil race thing seemed like a brilliant idea, but allowed die hard evil races an opportunity to go good race in the guise of helping evils. which was a death blow of a sort.

however, the problem was still always been that at a certain point 1-2 years ago evils became dysfunctional, unable to participate in the major objective of the game zoning for equipment. The principle reason for this being that the average skill level of evil race players dropped dramatically and being unable to muster a 15 man group for a zone.

this is the reason career evil race players have forsaken and left the evil races... they want to play the game and were unable to do so as an evil race.
Nekelet
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Postby Nekelet » Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:15 pm

Vaprak wrote:I thought PfW was Protection from Wife.

Yup, at least in my world. :D

PfL(ife) covers Vigis' interpretation.
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Postby Latreg » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:38 pm

Sarell wrote:If a stack of goodies went to evil then neither side of the fence could zone, then the whole mud could get bored and leave! :) Need more players not more bonuses for evils.


you are correct in that more players would help, however consider this, newbie makes a new character, an evil, logs on gets a few levels, gets bored with the solo thing, notices serious/consistant lack of evil pbase, choices are....keep doing the solo thing, play a goodie, move on to another game.
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Postby Ambar » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:41 pm

t Krenalazmagg consent for smiteage!!
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re:

Postby Zakissus » Mon May 02, 2005 3:13 pm

Just throught Id throw my few cents in on this one:

Background: Im a returning player. A re-returning player hehe. Been playing and returning thru everyone of "torils" incarnations, since the beginning 90's.

That said, Im returning again. Im used to solo play, and for the part part always played necros (just cant seem to get un-fascinated with em). After reading tons of posts on this here board (which is what got me into returning again) I figured getting some more evils would be a nice goal. So I rolled up a couple guys and played before settling on my yuan cleric for now (trying to be the most help to evilside I can).

My take: I love scarsdale...definately laid out nice, good quests and mobs, nice exp progression and I do like the random eq loading.

That said, its horrible HORRIBLE for a grouping class. Why? Because there is noone to group with. Before you say "but there ARE evils starting yada yada" well...define starting?? Oh you mean those lvl 1-5 evils I run into, will ENTIRE full sets of BS gear, that are in scarsdale for about the hour it takes them to level enough to hit their hometown? Umm yeah, right. Every darn "newbie" Ive seen has been decked out to the max. Its Frustrating to say the least. Ive asked for, and received some help, someone was awesome enough to give me a pretty good weapon. Frankly its the only reason Im still grinding it out heh. Not saying things should be handed out wily-nily at all, but maybe you guys with all that awesome gear should stay a bit more naked and play with the other newbies in the zone? Heck, Ive seen chars camped at 18 and 19 that are just there to powerlevel up someones decked out alts. BS I cry! Heh, nothing worse than me killing ten gazillion orcs, one at a time (and Im lucky my cleric can solo this well) as I see someone fly by lvl 1 with their helper and breeze to lvl 15-18 and poof off they go. Drives me nuts.

Granted, I can see how getting some peoples alts up and into the evil ranks quickly is a good thing, but then your stuck with someones alt. They may not play that alt...while the real new(and returning) players (and I did see a few of us) are left floundering.

Just pointing out some things Ive noticed...I am in no way throwing stones. Heck Im a powergamer at heart, and Ive been known in the past to pass my eq on a new guy I start and solo my way as fast as I can thru the beginning. I also have been helped on two occasions with a weapon and with some of the orc quests, so Im not saying it doesnt happen at all. Im just saying before everyone complains about the evil side being so low, actually put your foot forth and try and fix it. Lowbie eq is plentiful, and your time is wasted if your sitting around bored...so you see that lvl 1-10 evil online, send em a tell, roll yourself up a newbie and go party with em for a bit. Gets em envolved, conversation thru that 1-20 grind, you can guide them with your scarsdale knowledge...et cetera.

Ok, Ive rambled way too much hehe, and all this after I swore Id have nothing to do with the mud while working today, since I got practically none of my work done all weekend lol. You see me online, send me a hello, Im looking to be an active part of the evil community so I might as well start meeting you guys :)
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Postby Corth » Mon May 02, 2005 4:24 pm

thats really the problem isn't it.. the mud is dying because there aren't enough new players. The new players that come here can't really be retained because its impossible for them to level up on their own. We're talking about an experienced player who is having trouble. Imagine a true newbie.. it would be impossible.

Maybe we really should consider level restrictions on eq and grouping. The point would be to make it harder to powerlevel up an alt, while at the same time, making new players more attractive for groups of alt low levels since they are not as disadvantaged by lack of eq.

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby vallis » Tue May 03, 2005 4:44 am

Maybe the pbase is dying because MUDs as a whole are declining?

Hmm..
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Tue May 03, 2005 11:50 pm

i think someone posted that muds are actually on the rise.

regardless there seem tobe muds with several hundred people logged on regularly. If they can do it we should be able too.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Vigis » Wed May 04, 2005 4:31 am

Then get your asses out there and vote. We are gaining new players, for anybody that doesn't believe it, do 1 of 2 things: Apply to be a newbie helper or spend some time in scardale.

We are getting new folks, and I have to believe that the voting blitz is part of it. . .we are stealing people from other muds. The trick is to keep them here, we can't expect people to stay here when they get ignored on NHC or in Scardale because you are too busy powerleveling.

We had a new player come on while I was in the middle of something. I did a who 1-20 sort and found that there were about 20 people on, however using NHC to get one of them to help the player didn't work, neither did sending tells to several of the low level PC's.

We need to be a little bit less concerned with power-leveling our alts in record time and a little more concerned about keeping people.

When I started here, Barbs still had WD as a hometown. I stood at the WD fountain and shouted that I was new, a warrior grabbed me and started showing me the ropes. . .not by pleveling me, but by standing by as I fought mobs and learned the game. He was boggled that I tanked a deer for crying out loud...

Just a few of my own thoughts.
Nerox tells you 'Good deal, the other tanks I have don't wanna do it, and since your my special suicidal tank i figure you don't mind one bit!'



Alurissi tells you 'aren't you susposed to get sick or something and not beable to make tia so i can go? :P'
malakwee
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Postby malakwee » Wed May 04, 2005 6:16 am

Evils needs:
1. Pbase
2. Leaders able to lead zones
3. Players willing to learn up zones and lead
4. Players willing to give 'new players who wanna lead zone' a chance to lead zones
5. Players who would stop bitching about zones lack of eqs if that is the zone the 'new
player who wanna lead zone' is zoning to. Bet there are plenty of zones out there
that are doable without full zone group.
6. Players who would stop bitching over petty things that would result to bigger things (like
evil leaving evils and hence losing more evil pbase).

So far from what i can observe, the lack of active No2 leads to ultimately a dwindling in No1. But the lack of other factors has been major causes as well for a general dwindling in the evil Pbase.

Another question is how to increase activity aside from zoning, RP-ing and boring xping? Mebbe we can all think of new features for the mud to make it a more exciting place. Since a certain percentage of the players mud-life would revolve around a particular city, maybe it is time to liven things up.

Example:
A general builtup towards war between cities. Mebbe on certain occasion (cant suggest any), an evil witch king decides to lead orcs accompanied by trolls and ogres to invade waterdeep, hence allowing evil Pbase to also evade elites and help invade it for certain stuff. Or vice versa, or duergar invasion of Mithril hall, mountain dwarves invasion of Gloom Haven etc. Mebbe have some of the 'well known MOB' to be involved during these invasion and allow them to be grouped in a limited way the way the Choking Palace is being done. Hell that would be a day to be on and to experience the mud... . The rewards can be placed in (randomly) Mebbe the evil witch king is targeting to kill Khelben Blackstaff to get his flaming candle (illuminating) to further his evil ends or something. Mebbe if evil can kill khelben then there is a reward waiting on khelben pickable only by evils.... or if the evil witch king is killed by goodies then there is a reward on him that is pickable only by goodie instead.

But that is just a suggestion. Am sure others would be able to think of more creative things to do.
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Postby Elet » Wed May 04, 2005 10:01 pm

6. Players who would stop bitching over petty things that would result to bigger things (like
evil leaving evils and hence losing more evil pbase).


*drool*
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Postby kiryan » Thu May 05, 2005 12:01 am

im going to have to agree with the point that llaaldara got us to round bout, toril needs more players its not really an evil issue its a symptom of the decline.

im also going to agree with vigis that newbie retention is critical.
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Thu May 05, 2005 12:03 am

im going to have to agree with the point that llaaldara got us to round bout, toril needs more players its not really an evil issue its a symptom of the decline.

im also going to agree with vigis that newbie retention is critical. however, i wont agree to single out general attitudes and !pleveling as the ways to accomplish this. I think there are many more issues the most critical being how you actually level as a noob in particular classes.

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