Revitalize the ebils!

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
vallis
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Revitalize the ebils!

Postby vallis » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:47 pm

Why don't we put out some incentive to play evils?

How about "Multiplayer Mondays".

When evils, and only TRUE evils not evil humans/neutral humans can have one multi evil on at a time.

This would allow for exping and zonage without having to call all of your friends and wait 3 1/2 hours to form a group, only to have it fall apart.
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Postby Latreg » Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:12 pm

good idea but it will never happen. Even if it did, there would have to be a way of making sure everyone is asked to join the group before any multi's are allowed in. Most of the replies are going to consist of people will be left out. Probably a better idea would be Petition We need a healer, consent for group and follow up.
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Postby vallis » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:06 pm

Who cares. :p

The players should police each other and know how to kick eachother out to allow other players in.
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Postby Latreg » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:21 pm

vallis wrote:Who cares. :p

The players should police each other and know how to kick eachother out to allow other players in.


the staff/immortals care for one, some of the players probably too, they should be able to police themselves, but they can't/won't that's the reality.
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Postby kiryan » Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:25 am

To propose such a outlandish idea you should describe at least one specific undebatable way that evils will benefit long term.
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Postby Lathander » Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:38 am

On Homeland, we actually tried this idea. To be blunt, it was a disaster. If anything, it discouraged grouping with other players. Further, you will always have folks that push it and create triggers and scripts for a group consisting of 10 bots. While an interesting idea, from experience, it doesn't work to create a better or bigger pbase.

Lath
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Postby Thracx V'staluz » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:01 am

shrug, I'd love to play an evil. Been wanting to make a yuan-ti warrior for quite some time....but...not to play alone.

Countless important evils (gura, turg,etc.) have left the evils to either play a human or a goodie themselves.

Many would roll evils...if there were enough players to make evils fun again.
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Postby Nilan » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:53 pm

Then roll one and stop complaining
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Postby Birile » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:00 pm

Nilan wrote:Then roll one and stop complaining


I gotta say I completely agree. If you all would just STFU and roll that evil character that you claim to "want to play," you'd have your bleeping evil pbase.
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Postby Botef » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:21 pm

Birile wrote:
Nilan wrote:Then roll one and stop complaining


I gotta say I completely agree. If you all would just STFU and roll that evil character that you claim to "want to play," you'd have your bleeping evil pbase.


Or maybe if all the evils who play goodrace these days actully all logged in their evils...Thats honestly what makes me gripe...Nobody rolls new evils because our pbase looks like shit...Old evils don't log in because they can't 'see' enough people to group with....But there still around, we still zone - it just takes an hour + to form a group because whoever does decide to take on the task has to wait for evils gone goodrace to trickle in.

Then everyone is all shock and awe that 20+ lvl 50 evils are around when infact its the same old people who play everyday that just never log their evils unless asked.

Thats what really bugs me...Not that our pbase is small, but that there all still around playing goodrace.
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Postby Selias » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:38 pm

Hey, I rolled an evil char and still have no one to group with =(. I can say "I did my part" but it didn't get better. Now what? The little time I play on the mud is spent again chatting as my goodie on acc. I feel that if other people rolled an evil to play they'd encounter the same problem.
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Postby kiryan » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:03 am

conversely

Why don't all you evil holdouts roll goodies. Then there wouldnt be an evil pbase problem.

I got tired of sitting on my thumb so I abandoned my numerous high level evils and play goody.
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Postby kwirl » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:02 am

my evilrace char is almost level 37 :P
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Postby Sarell » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:57 am

Nilan wrote:Then roll one and stop complaining

That's the trick.

Botef wrote:Thats what really bugs me...Not that our pbase is small, but that there all still around playing goodrace.

Roll a goodie and join the group, or use LFG channel and offer to lead something for evils / neutrals.

This idea for multi would make evils a great place for 5 of my close knit friends to roll any zone we like and not take any of these so called 'dedicated' evils along at all, I don't think it would help new players. I have to say, I'm pretty sure most of the evils that people refer to as playing their goodies all the time, or betraying evils, and myself, play their evils a whole lot more than the people on this BBS complaining about evil pbase. The pile of posts about long term evils going to play goodie and hurting evil pbase, are far too often by people that have never played with these icons of darkness anyway. If I was a new player and read this BBS I wouldn't make an evil in a fit. I think if some of the complaining about how bad evils suck on bbs was cut back, some decent smiting was done game side, even just some cool solo demonstrations and fine leading, the evil pbase would climb right back up.

I prophesize that the next big evil guild will be lead by people who play goodie occasionally or regularly aswell. The division is dead.

A big problem for evils and goodies to a lesser degree, is that every single evil online is afk, and I'm talking when there is 10 online.

PS. Evils are better than goodies, they are just evil! *dive for cover*
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Postby kiryan » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:23 pm

I agree with sarell.

the split is dead just a few of you dont realize it yet and refuse to convert. Roll a neutral human that way you can play both sides (and eventually realize there is only one side left).

it just takes one good dedicated and tireless leader.
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Postby kwirl » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:58 pm

does this mean the racewar is over? :(
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Postby Birile » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:11 pm

kiryan wrote:I agree with sarell.

the split is dead just a few of you dont realize it yet and refuse to convert. Roll a neutral human that way you can play both sides (and eventually realize there is only one side left).

it just takes one good dedicated and tireless leader.


Making all neutral/evil humans EVILRACE would probably make the evilrace pbase about equal to the goodrace population and the evils would have their defectors back.

I think it's a good idea.

Think about it, Imms.
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Postby kwirl » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:17 pm

I am a human enchanter, -1000 alignment (evil, if you don't know how the numeric system works). If I had the evil_race or maybe an evil and good race flag simultaneously, i'd spend way more time hanging out in dk with evils
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Postby Botef » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:00 pm

I've tried playing goodrace...It just didn't work, I don't know why...It just didn't. I guess I'm just stubborn, and wish more people were too.
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:21 pm

An observation was brought to my attention recently. Which was: only one 15 group power zone group can happen at a time in goodies.

By power zone group, I mean if you got the people to do izans or seelie, you can't build a second group to do the other zone while one is doing the one, or go do scorps, or something on that level. Is this more or less true? I'm not talking about getting enough folks to do crypts or TF while seelie is being done. I mean a 2nd group that can do any zone in the mud at the same time as an existing one.

Because if this is true, Goodies have now become the new Evils and that is one hell of a drop in active players. :(

Edit: And if some of these active zoning goodies, are former evils, isn't that even worse news?
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Postby Vigis » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:04 pm

It's not always the case Llaaldara, we managed to have BC going at the same time as SPoB not too long ago. It doesn't happen during the week as often, but it still happens.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:30 pm

Since when do evils want to be revitalized?

Those that play evils now are content with the way that it is (except for a couple) and those that aren't play goodies.
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Postby Raiwen » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:40 pm

Hell, you get one semi-powerful group in evils, such as a gith, jot, or musp invasion group, or a fire/air plane group, other evil's not in the group can't even do EXPERIENCE :)
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Postby kiryan » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:09 am

its plenty possible on the goodie side to have 2 full zone groups. However, its hard to motivate more than half of them to get out there and do a zone from which they have 3 or 4 sets of the zone's eq.

Do not mistake lack of desire to do zones as lack of people to zone with. However your basic point that goodies have lost pbase is undeniably accurate over the course of 2 and probably even 1 year.
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Postby sok » Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:38 am

Just something i observed. Whenever I want to lead a zone, I usually can gather a group for it. The reason it not really a problem is because I dont blackball evils that went goodie. Here are my reasons why i dont blackball them:

1) i also have some goodies
2) some of my friends have alway been goodies
3) some of my evils friends are have gone goodie
4) just bcuz they are goodie doesn't mean they have become pricks
5) Gura/Ruraz is still overpower regardless of which side and needs to have a godgiven handicap

But u know what people... believe it or not, most of the goodies are eager and willing to help evils.

ex. i had 3 syssok corpse in ttf. i send out a lfgc need help getting corpse. i got like 5-8 goodie offer help. so with all the evil and these goodies we were able to roll ttf. and i didnt' even know the zone.

i find that evils have more problem w/ goodies wanting to get into evil group then vise versa. just my observation and i could be wrong, so i apologize if i am.

i agree with w/ kiryan said about all evil need is a willing and tireless leader. i believe if i had my addiction to mud and didn't have poker/attending a mens bible study/teaching a high school bible study/volleyball/rock climbing/coaching basketball/work/rl issue i could help resurrect evils. but the thing is once work is over i'm pretty tire, and i still have all of those other things i have to do. i get home around 10-11 pm. i lack the energy to lead a zone. it's not from lack of willingness or desire to help the evils but i too tire.

Sometime i give up one of the above activity to mud, but some cannot be easily pushed aside.

Anyways, my break is over. back to work i go.

edit--

anyways, what i'm trying to say is that we, as a mud community, has grown older. we dont have as much free time, and we should accept any offer of help w/ open arms; regardless, if its from goodie or evil.
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Postby Birile » Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:47 pm

sok wrote:The reason it not really a problem is because I dont blackball evils that went goodie.


Since when were these people blacklisted? When I joined OD and led small zones with my battlechanter, I found that forming groups was made easier because the people suggested I talk to so-and-so who was on as his goodie and had X character on the evil side who could possibly fill a slot in my group. The evils I grouped with were always more than willing to group with an evil who went good.
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Postby Lirela » Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:15 pm

I guess one reason I don't play an evil is because of the attitudes of *some* of the people. Others say "Don't mind him, he's an ass to everyone" but when that assinine attitude starts to drive helpful people away from you and the group you belong to, someone needs to put those asses in check.

For example...

    My husband was online one night and was invited to join an evils brass group.. He couldn't go but they ended up needing Lirela so I logged on to join them. A few people in the group really ruined it for me, despite the efforts of some others who tried to make me feel more welcome (and thanks for that, by the way!)

    First there was the overwhelming feeling that I was such a burden when the commoners and nobles attacked me, cuz I was a goodie.

    And then when someone suggested we get the quest piece up there, a few of them said "Not if we're getting it for a goodie. They can help themselves." Well, excuse me, but a sense of community for the entire mud would go a long way. What if it went to a neutral human who helped you out one day, like I was that night? Heaven forbid we help someone who might be able to help us someday... or worse, just to *gasp* be nice!

    And then when I died on that very fight (I may have been the only one) those same people seemed to think CRing a group member who happened to be human was this huge burden they shouldn't have to bear. By this time I was pretty much pissed at the whole thing, and refused to consent anyone I didn't know and trust. Luckily Nilan was nice enough to drag my corpse when they pretty much said "fine, leave it."

Until their playerbase increases again, evils need to accept that they're going to have to depend on goodies for *some* things, and if you keep the attitude that I outlined above from my own experience, I'm sure there are quite a few people who will glady keep their distance from you. This separatist attitude is doing nothing but hurting you and your "cause." For one thing, you lost a very nice neutral resser who often goes out of her way to help out pretty much anyone who needs it. Sorry, I'm going to be much more selective now. Yes, I'll still ress you, but it's going to be on my terms and I'll be very unlikely to run down to DK or VT for it, like I used to. Not a big threat to some of you who wouldn't even ask in the first place, but kinda sucks for those of you who could really use the help and are big enough to ask for it.
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Postby Ambar » Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:41 pm

bad attitudes?? hehehe

an EVIL group did the scorx run for my GOODIE elementalist :P

love you ryry .. always will :)
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Postby Birile » Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:18 pm

Lirela wrote:I guess one reason I don't play an evil is because of the attitudes of *some* of the people. Others say "Don't mind him, he's an ass to everyone" but when that assinine attitude starts to drive helpful people away from you and the group you belong to, someone needs to put those asses in check.

For example...

    My husband was online one night and was invited to join an evils brass group.. He couldn't go but they ended up needing Lirela so I logged on to join them. A few people in the group really ruined it for me, despite the efforts of some others who tried to make me feel more welcome (and thanks for that, by the way!)

    First there was the overwhelming feeling that I was such a burden when the commoners and nobles attacked me, cuz I was a goodie.

    And then when someone suggested we get the quest piece up there, a few of them said "Not if we're getting it for a goodie. They can help themselves." Well, excuse me, but a sense of community for the entire mud would go a long way. What if it went to a neutral human who helped you out one day, like I was that night? Heaven forbid we help someone who might be able to help us someday... or worse, just to *gasp* be nice!

    And then when I died on that very fight (I may have been the only one) those same people seemed to think CRing a group member who happened to be human was this huge burden they shouldn't have to bear. By this time I was pretty much pissed at the whole thing, and refused to consent anyone I didn't know and trust. Luckily Nilan was nice enough to drag my corpse when they pretty much said "fine, leave it."
Until their playerbase increases again, evils need to accept that they're going to have to depend on goodies for *some* things, and if you keep the attitude that I outlined above from my own experience, I'm sure there are quite a few people who will glady keep their distance from you. This separatist attitude is doing nothing but hurting you and your "cause." For one thing, you lost a very nice neutral resser who often goes out of her way to help out pretty much anyone who needs it. Sorry, I'm going to be much more selective now. Yes, I'll still ress you, but it's going to be on my terms and I'll be very unlikely to run down to DK or VT for it, like I used to. Not a big threat to some of you who wouldn't even ask in the first place, but kinda sucks for those of you who could really use the help and are big enough to ask for it.


Maybe they were RPing? Racewars and all? J/K

It may help to point out that yes, some evils dislike goodies and some goodies dislike evils. How many posts on the BBS have you read, especially in the relatively-recent discussion about helping the evilrace population increase, where a goodie has said "just convert to goodie and get it over with" and the like?

In all honesty, that really sucks that you had to deal with some of the attitudes of some players, but that is a two-way street in my experience. But maybe it would help to remember the people in that group who tried very hard to make you feel comfortable. It's a lot less stress to think happy thoughts than negative ones. :) *hug*
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Postby Lirela » Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:56 pm

Of course, you have to consider that this isn't the only instance of this kind of behavior toward me. but to list others would just belabor the point.

My post was not meant to indicate that I have an "all evils suck" attitude.

Just that, the few can ruin it for the many.

You don't like goodies. Fine. We get it. Some of us are still willing to help, as long as you don't go out of your way too much to point it out when we do.
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Postby Raiwen » Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:14 pm

I remember that brass run. I led it. It sucked. It was a bad night. Our first cleric had a date he forgot or was a last minute thing. I forget. Anyways, he had to word while we were in Brass.

We did 4 guards for res peice. One was para'd, two switched in same round to you, I was previous rescue lag, so they got one good round on you. I rescued once, Bawog failed, you died the next round. Then it was me, and then Vasad.

I should have had casters reduced and prestoned. Like I said.. it was a bad night.

Before that, Nogpot went south by typing "s core". He died at the golem. Then Bodug wanted to join us, and ran to shere of air. He didn't have pff item, and thought pff spell would help. He died before we could summon him. Yup, I should have known it would be a bad night.

In the end, Zizziz and Vased died again. Zizziz because he was afk when teh golem popped, and we were already on smoke. Vased, because I didn't have a light, ran into golem room while it was dark and left the humans outside. By the time I typed in rescue for a red shape named Vased, he was dead. It was a bad night.

It had been forever since I had lead Brass as my human cleric. Since coming back, I had just lead Brass as an evil. Therefore my comments about nobles and commoners attacking you and Cilah were not derrogatory. They were simply commenting on the fact that I was a bit rusty when doing Brass with goodies. That has changed now, since lately, it is my lil' human (retired) cleric that goes to Brass with the evils because we can't find a cleric willing to go. She's gotten two levels (now 44) just off zone xp (well I got about 30% of one level on smoke).

I'm attaching the entire gsay log, for all to see. Sure, there are a few that don't really like grouping with goodies, don't like helping goodies, and would rather see every goodie on the mud die horrible deaths.

But beyond that, can't we all just be friends?
Last edited by Raiwen on Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Raiwen » Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:14 pm

removed spam, added log to logs section on BBS

http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=147490#147490
Last edited by Raiwen on Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby sok » Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:15 pm

Birile wrote:
sok wrote:The reason it not really a problem is because I dont blackball evils that went goodie.


Since when were these people blacklisted? When I joined OD and led small zones with my battlechanter, I found that forming groups was made easier because the people suggested I talk to so-and-so who was on as his goodie and had X character on the evil side who could possibly fill a slot in my group. The evils I grouped with were always more than willing to group with an evil who went good.


maybe it's rp? all evil group only. or they wont group if humans are in group. i guess this is not blacklisting them, but if u are tryin to lead a group of evils, u can't just say ungroup the evil so u can have humans. because these evils velt like they were betray. This may sound like the right thing to do, but u are basically just alienating another evil. So u just keep a mental note and do your base to applease the populous.
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Postby Botef » Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:54 pm

Oh yea, Long live Nogpot. I rock!

Nogpot group-says 'LERRRROOOOYYYY JEEEENNNNKKKKIIINNNSSS'
You group-say 'that was neat nogpot :)'
Zizziz group-says 'except Nogpot him pushing up daisys'
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Postby Sarell » Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:52 am

It seems to me like some evils want a secluded evil only guild or something to compete with goodie groups / guilds. What you need to do is start leading zones, every day, and smite what you can no matter what. If one of you has to make a rogue and another an ele so you can 2 man everything at first then so be it. But you need to be serious about it if want to compete with the mud addicts who primarily play good races. There is no divide between good and evil at the moment because there is no competition whatsoever between good/evil races. If our guild decides to play evils that day, then we are the best evils on. Atm the best evils look to me like goodie alts anyhow. I'd love there to be powerful evil guilds, at the moment there isn't enough evils online, and you can't count X-evils. Get your little brother to roll a cleric/shaman and form a guild with them perhaps :) You can always boss them into playing!
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Postby Birile » Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:22 pm

sok wrote:
Birile wrote:
sok wrote:The reason it not really a problem is because I dont blackball evils that went goodie.


Since when were these people blacklisted? When I joined OD and led small zones with my battlechanter, I found that forming groups was made easier because the people suggested I talk to so-and-so who was on as his goodie and had X character on the evil side who could possibly fill a slot in my group. The evils I grouped with were always more than willing to group with an evil who went good.


maybe it's rp? all evil group only. or they wont group if humans are in group. i guess this is not blacklisting them, but if u are tryin to lead a group of evils, u can't just say ungroup the evil so u can have humans. because these evils velt like they were betray. This may sound like the right thing to do, but u are basically just alienating another evil. So u just keep a mental note and do your base to applease the populous.


I got lost in the poor grammar :(
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Postby Birile » Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:22 pm

Sarell wrote:It seems to me like some evils want a secluded evil only guild or something to compete with goodie groups / guilds. What you need to do is start leading zones, every day, and smite what you can no matter what. If one of you has to make a rogue and another an ele so you can 2 man everything at first then so be it. But you need to be serious about it if want to compete with the mud addicts who primarily play good races. There is no divide between good and evil at the moment because there is no competition whatsoever between good/evil races. If our guild decides to play evils that day, then we are the best evils on. Atm the best evils look to me like goodie alts anyhow. I'd love there to be powerful evil guilds, at the moment there isn't enough evils online, and you can't count X-evils. Get your little brother to roll a cleric/shaman and form a guild with them perhaps :) You can always boss them into playing!


I do think, dear druid, that you have a point. :D
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Postby Botef » Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:16 pm

Birile wrote:
Sarell wrote:It seems to me like some evils want a secluded evil only guild or something to compete with goodie groups / guilds. What you need to do is start leading zones, every day, and smite what you can no matter what. If one of you has to make a rogue and another an ele so you can 2 man everything at first then so be it. But you need to be serious about it if want to compete with the mud addicts who primarily play good races. There is no divide between good and evil at the moment because there is no competition whatsoever between good/evil races. If our guild decides to play evils that day, then we are the best evils on. Atm the best evils look to me like goodie alts anyhow. I'd love there to be powerful evil guilds, at the moment there isn't enough evils online, and you can't count X-evils. Get your little brother to roll a cleric/shaman and form a guild with them perhaps :) You can always boss them into playing!


I do think, dear druid, that you have a point. :D


Problem is, when your going around with a Necro or an Ele smiting things for fun and doing what you can, you try and get people to join you who play goodrace primarily now and they almost always say "What the heck would I want from that small zone?" Hell even most evils have the same attitude.

Doing small stuff doesnt increase anyones interest in playing evil, they just look at us and go "Gosh, I could do this or I could log my goodrace and maybe win a bid on some EQ I don't already have five pieces of".

We need more players to log there high level evils and stick around, not just log on when they hear an LFG for a rare evil zone run. Its not that we don't zone everydaye cause were lazy....There just are never enough people on to form without sitting around for an hour+ poking goodraces in the butt trying to get them to log their evils. New players type 'who', see 5 evils to 50 goods and make an obvious decesion about which pool of players to roll up and contribute to.
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Postby Sarell » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:17 am

I never mentioned limiting yourself to doing small things with an ele and rogue! Where's the fun in that?! *grins* Do something awesome and make people want to convert! Or yeh, force little brother/sister :)
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Postby kiryan » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:22 pm

birile i hope you meant flag all evil/neutral humans as both good race and evil race because if you just flag them evil race, i'll just reroll as an elf or gnome or a good human.
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Postby kiryan » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:23 pm

birile i hope you meant flag all evil/neutral humans as both good race and evil race because if you just flag them evil race, i'll just reroll as an elf or gnome or a good human. your not going to force me to sit on my @$$ by making my character limited.
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Postby Birile » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:23 pm

kiryan wrote:birile i hope you meant flag all evil/neutral humans as both good race and evil race because if you just flag them evil race, i'll just reroll as an elf or gnome or a good human. your not going to force me to sit on my @$$ by making my character limited.


Nope, I meant just make them evilrace.
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Postby kiryan » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:10 pm

care to explain how your drastic suggestion would address any of the issues the mud is facing?
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Postby Pril » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:30 pm

well Kiryan first it would make all the efhr's evil raced and not groupable with goodies. That would either revitalize evils or cause the people to reroll/relevel rogues (i know it's not bad) the only problem with making all neutral/evil/human's evil race is it would make all the necro's and anti's evil race. Also some people who play neutral humans just for the sake of playing neutral humans (like my invoker) would be forced to go evil race or go good aligned, If i wanted to play an evil race voker i would of rolled a drow.

my 2 cents.

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Postby Birile » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:40 pm

kiryan wrote:care to explain how your drastic suggestion would address any of the issues the mud is facing?


I wrote down my explanation and then figured *shrug* it's not worth wasting my breath, especially when I already wrote it down when I made the suggestion. It's not any more "drastic" than making neutral/evil humans neutralrace to begin with. That little maneuver singlehandedly drove the last ten nails in the evilrace coffin and the Imms should be reminded that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
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Postby Sarell » Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:03 am

I don't see how making humans be able to group with evils drove any nails into any coffins. Evils got a little boost for a while then went back to being good ole nothing. But, if they want to get a group they can group with a few people who have humans now.

The efhr thing, if you want to put your hope in that your kidding yourself. I have several rogues. The dooger is by far the best of them. When I play evil, I play the dooger. If you want the heads up on that just make some dire raiders with bows for the same effect. And on the other plane, all the good evil players I know don't roll up humans to stick with evils, they roll elves and gnomes and barbarians because they are better. If you want to do high end zones, you need high end players. These players don't care what race etc they, are, they prolly just have a character to fit any situation needed in my experience. Today we did guild only BC (mind you it crashed as bel died *mutter*, half of us played alts because we needed to. you need a core team and smiet with them all the time if you want to 'revitalise' evils. I'm still of the belief that thinking about a division is pointless when most of the best players have characters on both sides anyway.
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