Pets in group + exp

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Dalar
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Pets in group + exp

Postby Dalar » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:28 pm

Instead of removing the no exp for pets, how about making it so pets don't take exp if the owner is in the room? This will prevent the workaround people were using before.
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Postby Ambar » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:43 pm

just leave the pet ungrouped .. why is this so tough? the number of times the pet steals the kill is negligable, about the same number of times ya lose xp on a kill when you are out meming and the condition caller gets lagged.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:25 pm

Ambar wrote:just leave the pet ungrouped .. why is this so tough? the number of times the pet steals the kill is negligable, about the same number of times ya lose xp on a kill when you are out meming and the condition caller gets lagged.


BC dagger
Any necro pet that nukes
pets that hit 3x

The number of times the pet steals kills is noticeable if you're in small groups. It's almost half a percent of exp at high levels and takes 1-2 minutes to kill.
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:00 pm

That and pets used to be grouped w/o taking xp. I don't get it. Your necro/lich. You indirectly cause the damage/pain/death. You absolutely should get xp for any creation that cause damage. Shaman, ele's, staves that proc pets for non-pet class (ice wand)..all pets should be yielding exp to the owner. I don't see why this is not the case. If a group of mobs die to incendiary cloud, then nobody should get xp because the cloud killed. Right? Wrong. A pet is a an extension just as a spell is. Why was this redone where pet owners are screwed? Plus it makes pet owners not as welcomed in a group.
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Postby Vaprak » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:05 pm

Thilindel wrote:That and pets used to be grouped w/o taking xp. I don't get it. Your necro/lich. You indirectly cause the damage/pain/death. You absolutely should get xp for any creation that cause damage. Shaman, ele's, staves that proc pets for non-pet class (ice wand)..all pets should be yielding exp to the owner. I don't see why this is not the case. If a group of mobs die to incendiary cloud, then nobody should get xp because the cloud killed. Right? Wrong. A pet is a an extension just as a spell is. Why was this redone where pet owners are screwed? Plus it makes pet owners not as welcomed in a group.


That'd be fine as long as the pet owner didn't get exp if they weren't in the room with the pet when the mob died, otherwise it'd be twink city.
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:38 pm

I agree, definitely should have pet owner with them. Otherwise you could use 2 specs and do 2 at once or 5 ghasts etc. :P PLEASE allow pets grouped again *grovel* Shammys/ele's etc would luv it too
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Postby Pril » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:42 pm

As well as rogues, i know rogues don't need help with exp don't get me wrong but it's annoying when our bc daggers steal the kill. Yeah we don't have to use em but it's so pretty to ahve em flying around :p

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Postby Dalar » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:16 pm

OK let me paint a more clear picture:

Pets kill an npc. If the owner is in room, full exp goes to the owners and his/her group. If the owner isn't in the room, exp is distributed to the pets and any group members in the room.
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Postby Ided » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:35 pm

There is a considerable downside to !xp for pets. It is already quite easy to level up any of the pet classes. Making it so pets don't take xp, or don't take their share of xp while grouped would make it even easier to do so.

I know my view is not the popular one, but lets keep at least a little bit of challenge to the pet classes.
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Postby Tanras » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:41 pm

Ided wrote:There is a considerable downside to !xp for pets. It is already quite easy to level up any of the pet classes. Making it so pets don't take xp, or don't take their share of xp while grouped would make it even easier to do so.

I know my view is not the popular one, but lets keep at least a little bit of challenge to the pet classes.


I would argue that it is not quite easy to level pet classes. When I group right now, hitters get 2x the exp I do when we are killing (assuming they are decently equipped). Pet classes may, in general, be better at soloing, but I have seen paladins and anti-pals do some very successful high level soloing without pets.
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:41 pm

Trouble with that is it forces groups to not desire them. A pet owner's spells are pretty lame because of pets. They were given consideration at that point. Shaman spells have been downgraded, ele's..same It's a big shame. For me, leveling my char, this is not really an issue, but for others to be, or if I ever chose shaman, or used a wand/trident that summons, it'd really tick me off. It's my creation, it should be my xp when my own creation kills something.

The paladin/AP is a good point too. And with what Dalar said, I assumed pets wouldn't be considered in group's xp split if owner were out of room too. So if 3 pcs, and pets, just the xp goes 1/3 each player. (but not owner since out of room) Good point.
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Postby Botef » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:59 pm

Have any of you actully level'd a necromancer lately? Come on...I solo ship hours at a time, and share xp with my tank/main caster so I can just be invis and let them do the work...If they didnt share xp, damn...I can't even imagine how much easier it would be...Insanely easy...Too easy...

Do you guys not remember Plilo's thread? He went from 40 necro to 50 lich in close to a week, sharing XP with his tank/main caster grouped just like I do than bitched about how damn easy it was, and how trophy needed to do something...And that was sharing XP with two pets every kill.

Necromancers/Lichs already get more XP solo at 40 then they ever, ever can accumulate sharing with a XP group, so pets sharing with the rest of a group for xp still wouldn't account for the considerably larger amounts one can get just solo'ing.

I won't comment on Elementalists/Shamans...I'd be more open to them getting XP for pet kills I'd imagine.
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Postby Ided » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:29 pm

Botef wrote:Have any of you actully level'd a necromancer lately? Come on...I solo ship hours at a time, and share xp with my tank/main caster so I can just be invis and let them do the work...If they didnt share xp, damn...I can't even imagine how much easier it would be...Insanely easy...Too easy...

Do you guys not remember Plilo's thread? He went from 40 necro to 50 lich in close to a week, sharing XP with his tank/main caster grouped just like I do than bitched about how damn easy it was, and how trophy needed to do something...And that was sharing XP with two pets every kill.

Necromancers/Lichs already get more XP solo at 40 then they ever, ever can accumulate sharing with a XP group, so pets sharing with the rest of a group for xp still wouldn't account for the considerably larger amounts one can get just solo'ing.

I won't comment on Elementalists/Shamans...I'd be more open to them getting XP for pet kills I'd imagine.


This has been my experience as well, I have also leveled an elementalist to 46+ and the xp gain would be about the same. For a necro to sit in an xp area, invis, occasionally casting heal undead on his tank, and just letting his pets do all the work makes, in particular, necromancers far to easy to level. In the case of shamans and elementalist, it wouldn't be quite as easy as with necro, but still easy enough.
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:00 pm

xp with them grouped or not is not of consequence. I solely choose to make pets flee then I finish mob off myself. Contagion, as a god who was on as a player clearly saw, does not make mobs immune to switching. Little fartknocker switched 4x after being contagioned. Anyway, when mobs starts getting hit extremely hard, you flee them out. What's the difference on keeping them in? Necros/lichs aren't exactly on the highly desired to group list. As for elementalist, that's a class that's great if an enchanter isn't around. Except for Azerost and Nekelet, I don't know of any master liches. Plilo and co quit playing. Lim quit playing as well. Lim was that dude that shouted for lich quest all the time, he liches..then seem to vanish. Other than Botef and Lintral, I can't think of any long term necro's either. Something's pretty undesirable about the class or consequence of being a pet class anyway. Causing pets to flee while grouped typically leads to death of someone or damned near close, thus making (necro) them undesirable. Necros can't really offer anything in offense compared to having a voker or whatever if necro isn't gonna have pets around in the first place.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:07 pm

I hate how necros have been placed in the bitch role of soul walking corpses. That's the only reason to bring them.
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Postby Mitharx » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:09 pm

Managing ghosts during xp isn't overly difficult. Management spectres can be more difficult, but still easily doable once you get your timing down. The amount of exp I lost to pets was highly neglible.

It's harder with mentalists because the offense is so much weaker, but they also have blind which makes timing so much easier to do.

Having pets is a major boost and managing them is one of the drawbacks of having that boost. With that in mind, I disagree with giving xp to pet kills.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:20 pm

I disagree. Every class has an advantage in an exp group. Each advantage outside of pet classes requires no extra work, just focusing on killing the mob. Why do pet classes have to concentrate on killing until pretty hurt, then concentrate on getting the pets to not kill? Just silly in my opinion.
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Postby Nekelet » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:29 pm

This is 2nd hand, but I think quite reliable. The (one of?) reason the zero pentalty f/ petkills was pulled shortly after introduction was a couple of specific cases where a couple necro types teamed up - one in tank/hitter mode, other in hitter/heal/debuff. They were able to mow down spirit raven without even having to break invis - gaining 2man xp at 5man plus kill rates, and with zero risk. Sadly, I was not exping at the time to make (ab)use of this feature. :P

Did a brief search for the thread where you could see it first hand, but didn't get a hit.

Figure out how to prevent that situation, and then maybe...
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Postby Botef » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:58 pm

I'd be more for this change provided Necromancers/Lichs XP Table was increased to compensate for the increased XP gains one could get soloing...But increasing a Necromancer/Lichs table would just further increase the difficulty in getting decent XP in a group, which as it currently is sucks compared to soloing...I stopped grouping at 40 for XP, because it was generally easier to get more solo, not to mention getting to keep all the profits. Seems to me though the complaints brought forth in this thread are in regards to a pet-classes function in XP groups, and this wouldn't be much of a fix.
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Postby Nekelet » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:17 am

Thinking out loud - so to speak...
Would something like this do the trick?

Code: Select all

if (petclassingroup && obviousXPZone)
{   if (necro)
   {   if ( (inroom) && (visible) && (necrolev - avglev < 10)  && (! 2necros??) )
      {   !petpenalty
      }
   }
}
      


So - no penalties in real zones. (how to determine this..?)
No penalties if in a real XP group (2+ people, no more than 10 levels beneath the necro, and cannot be 2 necros)
No penalties for other petclasses.

Also, I'd be a big proponent of !penalty for necros in any circumstance under 26th - that's where life is most painful. Err maybe I should rephrase that to "was most painful" A lot has changed since I ground through those levels.
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Postby Mitharx » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:18 am

Dalar wrote:I disagree. Every class has an advantage in an exp group. Each advantage outside of pet classes requires no extra work, just focusing on killing the mob. Why do pet classes have to concentrate on killing until pretty hurt, then concentrate on getting the pets to not kill? Just silly in my opinion.


There are things that different classes have to focus on while killing that can make xp a pain or give you less xp. For example, meming out or leaving to get poison. So, to reduce these annoyances let rogues poison in combat and mem in combat rooms. Warriors, rangers, and rogues don't have to mem out if they don't want to and I've lost xp while meming out before but not while my rogue was a stabbing machine (except when I was running out for poison). I think we keep these in because it's a perceived advantage (and the meming thing just makes sense, but you could propose spells trickling back without meming).

So, people pay for their advantages in different ways. It can be a pain some times, but I remember it being a rare pain. I do see the point your making and I don't think you're necessarily wrong. I just disagree. The old lich xp dance is a sacred tradition. If I can stand around and do it just give me pwb.

Please please please give me pwb.
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Postby Mitharx » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:19 am

Nekelet wrote:Thinking out loud - so to speak...
Would something like this do the trick?

Code: Select all

if (petclassingroup && obviousXPZone)
{   if (necro)
   {   if ( (inroom) && (visible) && (necrolev - avglev < 10)  && (! 2necros??) )
      {   !petpenalty
      }
   }
}
      


So - no penalties in real zones. (how to determine this..?)
No penalties if in a real XP group (2+ people, no more than 10 levels beneath the necro, and cannot be 2 necros)
No penalties for other petclasses.

Also, I'd be a big proponent of !penalty for necros in any circumstance under 26th - that's where life is most painful. Err maybe I should rephrase that to "was most painful" A lot has changed since I ground through those levels.


Good point with the necro thing. It's all kinda painful before at least beltyns.
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Postby Nekelet » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:23 am

Mitharx wrote:...

Please please please give me pwb.


LLaal - 5, 4, 3, ...

And heeeeere she is!
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Postby Mitharx » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:24 am

I better clarify. That's a joke. Please do not post a ten page manifesto on why lichs shouldn't get pwb.
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Postby Nekelet » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:28 am

ROFL
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Postby Botef » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:08 am

While were at it, make sleep perm again :P
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Postby Dalar » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:20 am

Mitharx wrote:
Dalar wrote:I disagree. Every class has an advantage in an exp group. Each advantage outside of pet classes requires no extra work, just focusing on killing the mob. Why do pet classes have to concentrate on killing until pretty hurt, then concentrate on getting the pets to not kill? Just silly in my opinion.


There are things that different classes have to focus on while killing that can make xp a pain or give you less xp. For example, meming out or leaving to get poison. So, to reduce these annoyances let rogues poison in combat and mem in combat rooms. Warriors, rangers, and rogues don't have to mem out if they don't want to and I've lost xp while meming out before but not while my rogue was a stabbing machine (except when I was running out for poison). I think we keep these in because it's a perceived advantage (and the meming thing just makes sense, but you could propose spells trickling back without meming).

So, people pay for their advantages in different ways. It can be a pain some times, but I remember it being a rare pain. I do see the point your making and I don't think you're necessarily wrong. I just disagree. The old lich xp dance is a sacred tradition. If I can stand around and do it just give me pwb.

Please please please give me pwb.


Memming out is different. You can choose to mem in the beginning of the fight and finish the fight without casting. For poisons, they aren't that important in exp.
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Postby Mitharx » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:44 am

They are different, but the point I was making was perceived advantage, and as a result, perceived drawbacks that could affect xp.
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Postby Sarell » Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:54 am

I think pets not taking exp was probably pulled because of some shamans sitting in DK sending spirits on soldiers and stuff while lvl 1 characters got all the exp inside the fight :|.

Dalar's solution if it could be coded without too much hassle, as little sort of fix based on old stuff, would beat this problem, and solve the other annoying ones such as BC daggers taking the exp.
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Postby Tanras » Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:46 pm

Nekelet wrote:Thinking out loud - so to speak...
Would something like this do the trick?

Code: Select all

if (petclassingroup && obviousXPZone)
{   if (necro)
   {   if ( (inroom) && (visible) && (necrolev - avglev < 10)  && (! 2necros??) )
      {   !petpenalty
      }
   }
}
      


So - no penalties in real zones. (how to determine this..?)
No penalties if in a real XP group (2+ people, no more than 10 levels beneath the necro, and cannot be 2 necros)
No penalties for other petclasses.

Also, I'd be a big proponent of !penalty for necros in any circumstance under 26th - that's where life is most painful. Err maybe I should rephrase that to "was most painful" A lot has changed since I ground through those levels.


Without actually understanding how data is stored. . .this seems like a pretty heavy operation to run on every kill server-wide. While it is simple to think of like that, efficient code would most likely require a completely different route.

Let's try to give the forgers a little credit and realize that a fix like this is probably fairly difficult because this code would be run so much MUD-wide. . .it would need to be streamlined.
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Postby Birile » Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:55 pm

Dalar wrote:OK let me paint a more clear picture:

Pets kill an npc. If the owner is in room, full exp goes to the owners and his/her group. If the owner isn't in the room, exp is distributed to the pets and any group members in the room.


Um, one of the main reasons pets again get exp for kills is because we (pet classes) used our pets to group with other PC's to plevel them to 30 in the matter of two hours. If that issue could be fixed then I'd be all for pet exp going to the pet owner so long as they were in the room.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:06 pm

It wasn't two hours, but you're right, it was much quicker to plevel.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby kiryan » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:34 pm

1-20 in 1 hour
20-44 in 8 hours.

something had to be done and making them take exp again was the quickest.
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Postby Disoputlip » Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:18 pm

You are soo greedy.

Just group the pets. They almost dont take xp because of their level
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Postby Sarell » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:00 pm

You cant group the daggers when group is at 15. I don't mind grouping my pig as shammy, but daggers annoy me. They really are only good cosmetically.
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Postby KansasChaos » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:59 am

Disoputlip wrote:You are soo greedy.

Just group the pets. They almost dont take xp because of their level


Hi, I may be new to the game but even I can tell you don't know your pet class. A necro's ghost is 100% the necro's level. So is a spectre. Even wights are 75%
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Postby KansasChaos » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:02 am

Vaprak wrote:
Thilindel wrote:That and pets used to be grouped w/o taking xp. I don't get it. Your necro/lich. You indirectly cause the damage/pain/death. You absolutely should get xp for any creation that cause damage. Shaman, ele's, staves that proc pets for non-pet class (ice wand)..all pets should be yielding exp to the owner. I don't see why this is not the case. If a group of mobs die to incendiary cloud, then nobody should get xp because the cloud killed. Right? Wrong. A pet is a an extension just as a spell is. Why was this redone where pet owners are screwed? Plus it makes pet owners not as welcomed in a group.


That'd be fine as long as the pet owner didn't get exp if they weren't in the room with the pet when the mob died, otherwise it'd be twink city.


That has to be one of the best damned arguments I've ever seen. But what this mud should do is limit the necromancer to having 2 pets that are xp leech free. So if you use 5 ghasts to xp then you share, but otherwise with 2 ghosts, xp would be all yours or if grouped the pets wouldn't matter.
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Postby Sarell » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:47 am

I think necro's are a bad case for you should get exp from your pets from my observations of necros exping personally. Sure maybe from a story line, but in practicality no way. People are NOT going to leave you out of group because they fear your pets will take their exp.
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Postby Ided » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:24 pm

Sarell wrote:I think necro's are a bad case for you should get exp from your pets from my observations of necros exping personally. Sure maybe from a story line, but in practicality no way. People are NOT going to leave you out of group because they fear your pets will take their exp.


sorry ser, gonna have to disagree with you. I've been told several times to 'lose the pets' because they feared they would steal the xp (in xp groups anyways).

I still stand by the fact that xping a necro if pets didn't get xp for kills would be WAY too easy. It's easy enough already.
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Postby kiryan » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:31 pm

self sufficiency != easy.

just because a necro can solo exp and trickle exp in doesn't mean its "easy".

and i've been turned down and turned down necros because of the pet issue / not having anything to contribute other than pet damage / haste.

....

on the other hand, why does every class have to be the same? necros are a solo class... of course they seem to suck or not be geared towards group settings. However, pet management is one of the bigger headaches when in group settings (whether thats keeping them alive and !para in zones or fleeing them out so they dont steal exp).
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Postby Vigis » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:15 am

Back when I was xping heavily, I rarely allowed a necro to have pets in the group. The reasoning was simple, why allow pets to do damage and therefore cost the damage dealers in the group that oh so valuable damage exp. Heck, even as a warrior damage exp is noticably better than kill xp.

I was letting just about anybody come along that wanted to, regardless of class, but unless it was just me and a healer type, pets did not get to come along.

I can't remember if it was addressed in this thread already, but do necros get the damage experience that the pets do? If so, them stealing a kill is nothing. If not, then having pets helping kill in an xp group ultimately hurts every other member of the group.

I kind of look at it as a trade off, you can use your pets to solo and kill slowly or you can lose your pets, get into a group, and kill much faster.

My shaman has learned that he gets better exp soloing with his bear than he does on ship with 4 other people. He doesn't turn down xp groups unless he really doesn't have the time to join one, but the damage exp while the bear tanks owns the stone tank, heal tank, flee, rest, pray, st, w, stone tank, retreat east, rest, pray, rinse, repeat :)
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Postby Nekelet » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:49 am

Vigis wrote:do necros get the damage experience that the pets do?

No.

Vigis wrote:... kill slowly or you can lose your pets, get into a group, and kill much faster.

At the expense of % per hour. When grouped, my %rate goes to hell.
Back when I did the grind as nek, I grouped (a lot) only to keep sane.
--Hey, Look, I just regenerated a finger. Guess which one.

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantIT ... ipt?SK=191
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Postby Llaaldara » Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:14 pm

Nekelet wrote:At the expense of % per hour. When grouped, my %rate goes to hell.
Back when I did the grind as nek, I grouped (a lot) only to keep sane.


Not doing so results in perfectly splendid people like myselves!

Yes Precious, I was just getting to that... Precious believes it is a technical term referred to as a Llaaldarianism.

Yes.. Yes.. We wants ship exp. Yes. We needs it! We wants it! Must have solo farming ship exp!

Those filthy little goodies STOLE IT FROM US!
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Postby Maedor » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:23 pm

KansasChaos wrote:
Disoputlip wrote:You are soo greedy.

Just group the pets. They almost dont take xp because of their level


Hi, I may be new to the game but even I can tell you don't know your pet class. A necro's ghost is 100% the necro's level. So is a spectre. Even wights are 75%


Yog=owned
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Postby Sarell » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:21 am

Vigis wrote:Back when I was xping heavily, I rarely allowed a necro to have pets in the group. The reasoning was simple, why allow pets to do damage and therefore cost the damage dealers in the group that oh so valuable damage exp. Heck, even as a warrior damage exp is noticably better than kill xp.


Not really... doing exp, you get constant damage exp up until the point you are clearing the zone. If you have some ungrouped pets helping to take down the mobs, you get faster kill exp aswell.

I meant in real groups, not exp groups on the getting turned away because of pets thing. You might get turned away cos you're a necro and there is a voker on offer, but not because of pets.

I still think pet kills are annoying, I don't think the solution lies in going to the trouble of recoding pets when you could just boost exp in zones instead by upgrading trophy and lowering tables instead. If necros get exp from pets killing stuff, which they can get a bit of already, they can even more easily do completely afk exp. And from my perspective, necros already arn't that hard to level up.
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Postby Zakissus » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:26 pm

personally I found the exp rate sucked with my pets stealing exp...so I stopped playing. Shrug, was my choice, and I miss the game but I can just go play WoW. I dont want to have to sit and spend 4 hours to get 30% exp. Playing a necro sucks at my lvl 22, and I dont have the time to invest grinding thru to 26. Yeah maybe for some of you with a dozen chars all lvl 50 it may be easy, but so is every other class you play then. Its called experience. But as it is now, without the exp. of the mud you guys can, soloing a necro is NOT "easy". And what is wrong with having a designated solo class anyway? I wanna solo, I dont wanna group....so why penalize me by dropping my exp rate to 1/5th what it would be if I was a twinked out warrior with nasty eq? If easy is the arguement, put LEVEL RESTRICTIONS on all equipment. Then, NO class will be easy. Otherwise for you people who know the mud well enough, you can bring any class to 30 in a few hours, period.
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:32 pm

Again, don't confuse challenge with tedium. Exp on this mud is not hard. It's never hard. Killing warrior mobs one at a time on the ship isn't a difficult task, but spending three hours doing it for 25% of a level sure is tedious.
- Ragorn
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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:41 pm

Idea: Make difficult exp worth more experience. Zones, exp zones like Randars, etc. should be worth much more exp (I'd say even up to 2x better) than killing non-aggro single mobs.

On Homeland they made it so that the more aggressive monsters you fought at a time, the more exp they were worth. So we'd lure all of scorched forest and have about 10 mobs on us at one time. Then we'd kill them and get a ton of exp for the first one, and it trickled down. Was great actually having an exp group pay attention and exp was fun.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Teyaha » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:46 am

before it was yanked, you had to be in the room with your pets for the xp to not be shared if i recall correctly.

i liked it that way. sure it made levelling a necro a bit easier than a troll warrior (not by a lot from my own experiences). and what's wrong with that?

i mean we've been in this game how many years now? why not let us play a class like this that levels fast solo. the pbase isnt exactly expanding by leaps and bounds anymore. and it's not like any new player can roll a snake necro and get to level 50 in a day (not without help from an experienced player, but that's true for just about any class isnt it? with the right help people are levelling to 50 or 48 insanely fast)

the necro is an insanely fun class, but it's not for everyone. i saw a lot of folks make necros and rocket to 50 when the change first went in then never saw t hem again. they most likely went back to their mains since pet management - while not sucking - is a mini game in it's own right.

a necro isnt all that hard to level for those that have posted in this thread. but we've been in this game many many years. everyone in this thread can level any class in the game with relative ease. the necro however is not newbie friendly. play one pre 20 with only the gear you find on the ground and from killing things your level.
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Postby Hsoj » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:17 pm

Dalar that does sound like a blast!

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