IC2 - areas and code please read.

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
kiryan
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IC2 - areas and code please read.

Postby kiryan » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:45 am

tried to lead IC2 today.

1. remos swallowing

you guys have got to do something about the swallowing or the # of remos. Theres probably 15-20 on the first level and got to be sickeningly stupid. I was losing at least one tank every other fight and sometimes 2 tanks in the same fight. I even lost 3 tanks once. the procs happen frequently and can only be considered deathprocs... you may get a save, but its not meaningful as far as I can tell. more than 75% of the deaths we suffered were from swallows and the other 25% were from my stupidity. If you rule out stupidity on future runs, 100% of all deaths will be from an insta kill death proc. Does this sound like a good thing? Does it sound like fun?

Yes I can see that the swallow thing is strength based, and the dwarf tank the tank that was wearing 20 max strength was still getting swallowed often.

Hex, curse, stuns, shieldpunches , rays and single targetting them, nothing really helped us or could be considered a tactic. every time it came down to luck. We had a lot of damage to try and kill them as fast as possible but the procs just happen to fast. remos were consistnetly dieing within 20 rounds and we were losing people constantly. Unless you can think of a tactic that you can apply instantly within 5 rounds you have nothing other than luck. There were several times when a tank died first round with fresh spells.

Remos are better at killing players than dragons are. Is somethign wrong here?

2. the orbs and the locked door.

the orbs didnt unlock the door to 2nd grid properly. I droped the correctly colored orbs in the correct rooms and dropped the green orb last in the room before the door to 2nd grid and the door didnt unlock. I rechecked the orbs and the yellow orb had gone missing. I can provide a log validating the orbs were dropped correctly.

3. time vs reward

upper level ic took about 2.5 hours, resulted in about 20 swallow deaths, and about 15 deaths from two tactical mistakes I made (like looking w and walking south into 2 squads)... And most of the deaths there were from swallows again.

we got a max wis gloves, a max wis belt, and a mediocre bag for our trouble. the mediocre bracelet didnt even load... All of the first level equipment is of dubious quality anyways.

given the # of virtually unavoidable and frequent DEATHPROCS the first level rewards are compeltely out of line with the difficulty of the first level. Although it is true that we only had to do 40% of the mobs to get the eq than to get to second level ic2, who really cares... especially when it goes and crashes on you before you can complete 2nd grid and to get your first piece of decent eq.... then kill the 4 dragon fight and strife to get the final pieces of eq only one of which could be considered worthy of a 5+ hour zone.

The rewards weren't good enough to generate enough interest in the zone BEFORE dragon changes and remo death procs...

4. couldn't even take a look at 2nd grid to verify that its impossible, but with dragon procs, swallowing remos, and the mob density, 2nd grid is impossible. The only way we ever managed it before was getting dartan to lure out as many mobs as possible into the havoc/ruin lair. with the changes to dragons, no person could hope to lure any meaningful # of mobs before getting bashed/death procd.


thank you to the people who made this post possible.

kurkis, kikuji, erarim, mishrithandilus, ided, deshana, agor, uskael, kercil, and napex

special thank you to our tanks who took the brunt of the deaths

kramel, vigis, areh
Last edited by kiryan on Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
Eilistraee
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Postby Eilistraee » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:58 am

I can address the rhemoraz procs at the least:

Rhemoraz are naturally very strong, so while a dwarf with 20 max_strength stands a better chance, straight up checks the averages go to the Rhemoraz. It's how they hunt, they're bound to be pretty good at it. There are multiple spells available which can make the strength based check pretty much a sure success for the players. There's even a spell that can make the proc not even possible to happen.

Furthermore, rhemoraz dislike a particuler type of target, when you discover that I expect your trials with them will be much less onerous.
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Postby kiryan » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:09 am

thank you for the hint.
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Postby fotex » Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:43 am

that spell must surely be nature's blessing! :)
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Postby Sarell » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:13 am

downgrade rangers
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
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Postby Marthammor » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:00 pm

I'll take a look at the orbs/door and see if I can figure out whats messed up there.
When I messed with fights last time, I didn't mess with the rhemo numbers due to what eili explained above.
Once the way to avoid/reduce the swallow procs (seems to be your biggest problem so far) are found, would you say the rewards on the first level are worth what you have to do?

2nd grid is where most of the fight changes were made, but if you couldn't get there due to the door locking issue, then I'll hold off on any further changes there.

When I've looked at the orbs/door issue, I'll post again when its fixed/in.
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Postby Yayaril » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:18 pm

8)

I don't see why getting swallowed means you're dead. You should be able to slash your way out of their stomach.
Eilistraee
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Postby Eilistraee » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:26 pm

Yayaril wrote:8)

I don't see why getting swallowed means you're dead. You should be able to slash your way out of their stomach.


Game mechanics prevent me from providing that availability at this time. I'm aware it's there for the tarrasque, which is a single unique mobile as opposed to the multiple different rhemoraz in the game.
Eilistraee
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Postby Vigis » Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:07 pm

Eilistraee wrote:Furthermore, rhemoraz dislike a particuler type of target, when you discover that I expect your trials with them will be much less onerous.


Pretty sure they don't mind barbs, dwarves, or palidorks. I'm going to go with Anti-pal since they needed some sort of bone to make up for palidork getting rescue :p

I won't mind if they don't like antis, but it seems kind of silly to me for dragon kin to dislike a certain type of meat. Remos are not smart enough to be afraid of a certain race or class.
Nerox tells you 'Good deal, the other tanks I have don't wanna do it, and since your my special suicidal tank i figure you don't mind one bit!'

Alurissi tells you 'aren't you susposed to get sick or something and not beable to make tia so i can go? :P'
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:27 pm

Eilistraee wrote:
Yayaril wrote:8)

I don't see why getting swallowed means you're dead. You should be able to slash your way out of their stomach.


Game mechanics prevent me from providing that availability at this time. I'm aware it's there for the tarrasque, which is a single unique mobile as opposed to the multiple different rhemoraz in the game.


What if for coding sake, you were teleported into a room with some wall as the barrier to kill before the timer ends? I don't code, but it seems like something useful
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:05 pm

I think he is talking about pets. I've heard from other players that they never eat pets.

Ray/contagion is probably the spell that makes the strength check nearly never fail.

rainbow pattern is probably the spell that prevents the proc period... its probably a crit based proc. its probably not a called proc, because it ignores stunned, otherwise blind might be the spell...

So I guess the strategy would be tank it with a pet until ray/contagion / rainbow pattern lands, then fight as normal.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:51 pm

Eilistraee wrote:
Yayaril wrote:8)

I don't see why getting swallowed means you're dead. You should be able to slash your way out of their stomach.


Game mechanics prevent me from providing that availability at this time. I'm aware it's there for the tarrasque, which is a single unique mobile as opposed to the multiple different rhemoraz in the game.


Dimensional Rift code.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Eilistraee
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Postby Eilistraee » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:13 pm

Not exactly well suited to the task, but it may be adaptable. When I have time I'll have a look. There's a few other things to consider as well, but I can look into modifying the swallow proc.
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kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:36 pm

if you can control the swallow procs then the eq is about right, maybe too good. What you have to do to get the first 3 pieces of eq, bag/gloves/harness is probably kill about 8, 3 mob fights 6 of em remos. I had probably 6 swallows in that time (we were trying ray).

if pet tanking doesn't drastically reduce/eliminate the swallowing then spells are only going to be able to do so much in preventing swallows... We had people swallowed somewhat frequently in the first round (before it would be possible to get a single spell off let alone land that spell)... could they not swallow when stunned perhaps?

or maybe make an enlarged water/earth embodied human or barbarian !swallow.... or fire/air embodied people !swallow.

I'm all for fun and mahem and im not afraid of death or killing folks off, but I think with a proc like this, which is effectively a death proc even if you do get a save, there should be a perfect or near perfect defense. Dragging a tank corpse out of IC2 every 2 fights is annoying to say the least.

LFG: 3 brave and stupid tanks, one professional corpse dragger.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:16 am

Are you crazy? That gear is all crap even when the swallow procs weren't in.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Marthammor » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:04 am

Checked over the orb situation and everything there is fine. Just have to ensure that all the orbs stay in their location once dropped. They have been made locateable to help with that in the future.
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:12 pm

kiryan wrote:if you can control the swallow procs then the eq is about right, maybe too good. What you have to do to get the first 3 pieces of eq, bag/gloves/harness is probably kill about 8, 3 mob fights 6 of em remos. I had probably 6 swallows in that time (we were trying ray).


Was this with or without a Lich/Necro w/pets spamming ray/contagions?

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