Northern Roads

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Marthammor
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Northern Roads

Postby Marthammor » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:41 pm

As a few of you have noticed by now, the roads in the north are no longer able to be traversed with the teleport spell. I know this will be an unfavorable change, but the idea is that low level spells like teleport, fold, diminsion door, and summon shouldn't be able to traverse such large distances. This change may or may not stay, or parts of it may be changed (such as being able to teleport across the ferry once more.)
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Postby Hsoj » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:43 pm

hahah, make the bastards walk
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Postby Corth » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:00 pm

Thats lame... break it up into smaller zones if its a problem. Though I couldn't imagine its such a problem.. those zones are just filler...

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Marthammor » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:08 pm

All roads were ment to recieve this treatment (why should a low level spell allow for travel across half the world?) and this section of road was just the first. Most people use speedwalking, moon wells, or ghetto wells to get around anyway and so far the only compaints I have seen is with by-passing the ferry which is why I mentioned that may be the only thing changed.
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Postby kiryan » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:08 am

an intersting change.

however, i'm not so sure that was the best way to implement. the problem i think is with the spell not the zones. The spell is limited only by "zone" a completely artificial concept.

why not just change the teleport spell so you don't teleport more than 5,000 feet in any direction? That would be 10 of most giant sized rooms or a whole host of smaller rooms.

If the concept of teleport traversing from south of Luskan up north clear to the spine is "bad" then why is teleporting from lower jot to upper jot not also "bad"? or from 1st grid in musph to 3rd grid (yes i know musph was changed)?

I'd urge you to reconsider why your making a spell not work (where it rightfully should) to implement a specific effect rather than change the spell to more closely resemble the original intent.
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Postby Marthammor » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:36 am

Yeah, a limit on distance teleport and like spells would be better, however I used what I had available to me. The flag that was used was described as being for roads for the reasons I mentioned already. Its looking like this change won't be left in, so within a week or so all should be back to normalish.
Will come up with a better way to address the teleporting problem.
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Postby Corth » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:23 am

Yeah limiting distance on teleport makes a lot more sense imho.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Postby kiryan » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:18 am

maybe we could convince eilistraee to imp a change in teleport and perhaps dimensional fold to make them both limited on "range" in some way other than "zones". While your at it, maybe "summon" and dim shouldn't be unlimited distance either.... i wonder if track is based on # of rooms or "distance".
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Postby Eilistraee » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:28 am

Oddly enough, I've already been working on this off and on.

No ETA, though it has risen in the priority list.
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Postby Sarell » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:44 am

I don't mind them being as per zone. Perhaps it's a zone design thing where roads should be split at ferries and rivers? Just make a new zone file that starts the zone at the new rooms? Of course I have no idea i you would have to renumber zonelets along the roads or anything :(.

It's hard because random teleport shouldn't be a reliable form of regular travel I guess? Or should it, crazy wizards are kinda fun. But you don't wan't to make all roads !teleport where the spell if being used to get out of fights and other fun things te spell is actually aimed at in the first place. Maybe it is aimed at lucky travel in the first place? Oky this post is a ramble of uncohesive thoughts I admit.... :) *touch*
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Re this discussion

Postby Thrand » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:22 pm

I am wondering what is the objection to being able to randomly
teleport along a road? I hope you are not under the impression
that players are just hoping for the day when they are required
to traverse 130 or more rooms to get from the hostel to the ferry
perhaps with brief being required togged off? I am sure it took a lot
of effort to create these rooms, I am equally sure that after viewing them once or twice I and most others tog brief. I realise also that the appearance
of actual distance from place to place is a concern for area makers.
Would you not be able to use well from road rooms ? Would wormhole
not work on road rooms ? Is there something special about teleport
as opposed to some other form of magical transport over these disantces,
that you object to?

Thanks for your time and effort
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Re: Re this discussion

Postby Pril » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:38 pm

Thrand wrote:I am wondering what is the objection to being able to randomly
teleport along a road? I hope you are not under the impression
that players are just hoping for the day when they are required
to traverse 130 or more rooms to get from the hostel to the ferry
perhaps with brief being required togged off? I am sure it took a lot
of effort to create these rooms, I am equally sure that after viewing them once or twice I and most others tog brief. I realise also that the appearance
of actual distance from place to place is a concern for area makers.
Would you not be able to use well from road rooms ? Would wormhole
not work on road rooms ? Is there something special about teleport
as opposed to some other form of magical transport over these disantces,
that you object to?

Thanks for your time and effort


Their objection is that teleport is a 4th circle spell compared to moonwell for example that's a 10th circle quest spell. Teleport is too low a circle for the power it has.

Pril
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Postby Dalar » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:14 pm

Well, depending on how the zone is structured...

Why can't you just make teleport only work for a certain range of vnums of rooms if the zone is flagged (assuming you can figure out what to make a good flag) "filler zone"? That will limit the distance.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Thrand » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:24 pm

'Teleport is too low a circle for the power it has. '

Okay well if that is true that the gods are concerned that
teleport is too powerful, why change roads?
Shouldn't they change teleport the all powerful to
circle 10 and make it an uber quest. Oh and remove all the 5 plat
uber powerful teleport potions?
I think you are mistaken about the gods concerns about
teleport the all powerful unbalancing spell but as I don't
have telepathy and I'm guessing you don't either I prefer to
hear form the gods themselves that the reason all this is being
considered is that teleport is way too powerful to be a fourth
circle spell and a widely available potion and has been since time
began.
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Re: Northern Roads

Postby Pril » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:33 pm

Thrand wrote:Okay well if that is true that the gods are concerned that
teleport is too powerful, why change roads?
Shouldn't they change teleport the all powerful to
circle 10 and make it an uber quest. Oh and remove all the 5 plat
uber powerful teleport potions?
I think you are mistaken about the gods concerns about
teleport the all powerful unbalancing spell but as I don't
have telepathy and I'm guessing you don't either I prefer to
hear form the gods themselves that the reason all this is being
considered is that teleport is way too powerful to be a fourth
circle spell and a widely available potion and has been since time
began.


Marthammor wrote:but the idea is that low level spells like teleport, fold, diminsion door, and summon shouldn't be able to traverse such large distances.


That was the first post man you don't need "telepathy" at all.

Pril
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Postby Marthammor » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:44 pm

Roads never used to span 100-200 rooms at a time in a single zone before either, or small roads never really had other zones inserted in the middle of them allowing teleport to jump from one end of the road to the other by-passing a few 60-100 miles in mud terms.
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Postby Lilira » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:58 pm

Mmmm... From South of the Black fields to the other side of the Chionthar ferry being the greatest of the instigators?? Its always fun to get to the north side of the Chionthar, quaff, end up north of BG, run again to north of ferry, then quaff across the second time and end up south of Jenna's!!

*grin*

Notice.. there's only a little bit of sarcasm.. But traditional D&D allowed teleport to take you quite a distance (Up to 100 miles in new 3.5 rules) Its a 5th level spell which means a 9th level wizard could cast it. Oh and get this.. they could take one other creature too! Oh and they go where they want, not just random. (Gee,, sounds like Dim Door w/out the one touched person/creature [wouldn't that be neat!])

Greater Teleport (7th level/13 level wizard) is basically relo, though there is no chance of failure with Greater Teleport (unless you don't know where you're going), and no limit on range.

Yes, I know this is a mud and not D&D, but the mud is based on D&D, hence the beautiful spells we have. Ooo I just found Transport via plants and Rock to mud!

Teleport is a fun spell just for the trouble it can cause.. its kinda like the fun one can have with gate! (Ask Sotana what she proposed to me the other day when I was depressed to cheer me up... *grin*)

Its also handy to avoid those annoying little things like ferrys, though to be honest I just gate-fish at high levels, or relo from smoke down to someone on prime.

I'm starting to ramble. I actually just deleted a chunk that I'm starting a new thread on so I don't Hijack this one! There was a point to this..

When taking into account "fixing" the teleport thing, please keep in mind the distance that could be traversed! 100 miles is a long way for a mage w/o relo, or dim, and it can actually be used to save your life in a pinch (goodness knows it has mine!)

Oh and ask Inama about the downside of teleporting in Ice Crag.
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Postby Birile » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:09 pm

This is probably moot since this change may be taken out as Martha already said but I still have to say this: Who friggin' cares that teleport could potentially get you from the southernmost point of the northern roads to the northernmost point??? It's random as hell, which is its main drawback, that seems to me to be enough of a hassle in and of itself. If people think it's better to cast teleport (or quaff those pots) a couple times, wait for the lag to wear off and then re-mem rather than run the course manually (or using a speedwalk--why don't Imms have an issue with those if this is such a big deal?) then let them. If there's some other issue with teleport and those other spells mentioned, then work on them and implement those changes and stop using bandaids.
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Postby Corth » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:52 pm

Birile!!
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Yarash » Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:12 am

A rogue friend once got from WD to Zog incredibly fast after a reboot. I asked how he got there so fast. The answer was teleport potions.

- Mike
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Postby Corth » Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:39 am

Yarash wrote:A rogue friend once got from WD to Zog incredibly fast after a reboot. I asked how he got there so fast. The answer was teleport potions.

- Mike


Very smart player.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Birile » Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:37 pm

Corth wrote:Birile!!


Hi!
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Postby Teshidee » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:59 pm

i don't like having to spend even more time walking around on roads. what's the trouble with teleport? everyone can use it, just buy potions. why would you want to insist on even more time wasted? luckily i play mages, gatefishing works for me. poor trolls.
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Re: Northern Roads

Postby Llaaldara » Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:38 pm

Marthammor wrote:As a few of you have noticed by now, the roads in the north are no longer able to be traversed with the teleport spell. I know this will be an unfavorable change, but the idea is that low level spells like teleport, fold, diminsion door, and summon shouldn't be able to traverse such large distances. This change may or may not stay, or parts of it may be changed (such as being able to teleport across the ferry once more.)


If you're going to force players to walk thru long filler zones, then you absolutely must ensure that the zones are worth walking thru. Forcing players to plog thru long, vacant, and unimaginative rooms is simply doing the mud a disservice. It is far better to have 10 very descriptive filled rooms that cost 10 move each, then 50 vacant and repetitious rooms costing only 2 move each.

Please remember what happened with the EM implementation.

Quality should always be > Quantity.
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Postby kiryan » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:39 pm

i disagree.

no matter how descriptive and imaginative you make the rooms, people will at best read them once.

also, i don't care what you say, a mud that is 100 rooms across will always feel smaller than one that is 1000 rooms across even if there are plenty of ways to circumvent traversing them individually.

if gods want to make the mud seem bigger by increasing travel time then they need to remove or change spells like fly and teleport and or reduce the number of moves people get naturally and equipment.

however, having played everquest extensively, there was very little "fun" to be had spending 40+ minutes (conservative) to run from one side of the world to the other to join a group. the changes suggested by the staff are going to make traveling more tedious. i would suggest that they reconsider putting in pay to use teleporters/caravans/whatever to ease the tedium of traveling after eliminating the best "running" tricks.

a change like this is going to put a lot more burden/emphasis on the classes that can provide transportation services... do we need or want that from a game design perspective? Everquest initially relied on wizards and druids to provide transportation and a spell that increased your "running" rate. The demand for player based transportation overwhelmed the # of people playing the transportation classes and eventually everquest added a series of transporters. They started with transorters that went to like 3 or 4 destinations and only went off every 15 or 20 minutes if you had previously traveled there and been "flagged". Then they added more destinations that went off more often without flagging requirements, and finally they added a central location that everyone could reach from everywhere without too much time and placed transporters to each of the 20 some cities that were instant click downs to just outside the respective city.

We may not need to go to this level, however, i think its wise to see what others did and consider why. Do you really want to see 25+% of the mud playing druids and squids and charging outrageous amounts of $$ for transportation? Thats what happened on everquest before they started easing traveling restrictions. If you create a need for travel, and no adequate non player based ways of circumventing it, your going to create a situation that I believe will be turn rather sour.
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Postby Llaaldara » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:36 pm

kiryan wrote:no matter how descriptive and imaginative you make the rooms, people will at best read them once.


I'm not just talking about extensive room descriptions. I am also referring to having mobiles within the room. Room effects. Zone Effects. Etc. A fleshed out world.

A large zone that is no more then a series of duplicates, baren and empty, is worse then small zone filled with unique and immersive things - if both take the same amount of time to traverse.
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Postby kiryan » Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:57 am

im not saying that quantity is greater than quality. however, you can not achieve any measure of "bigness" without interaction with the world. This is most commonly done with additional rooms because players are forced to interact with each room by entering and exiting it or circumventing them through player abilities.

While there are other "immersive" techniques that you could employ to create "bigness", you will not unless players are forced to interact with these "immersive" features.

So far you've done little more than claim wonderful descriptions, equal "time" and what I take to be optional interactive components like mobiles and objects create "bigness". While it may be "big" in the minds of people like you, it will be a "small" world for those who decide not to interact with every little feature.

quantity is universally regarded as more/bigger.... but not better. the burden of proof is on your part, but i think your really trying to argue that "better" is preferable to "bigger". you just don't recognize what your arguing and or realize that this isn't a discussion of bigger vs better.
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Postby Ambar » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:10 am

tho I keep room descriptions ON, as a rule i RARELY stop to read them
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Postby Lathander » Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:35 am

I think we’re missing something in this conversation. Toril is based upon the Forgotten Realms. From a simple geography standpoint, there are lots of things to add. The question is not operational ease in walking around, but rather giving the game the real feeling of the Realms. Part of that is creating solid connector or road zones, and we are working on that. As I said in the Homeland Integration forum, we are taking it a little slower and working on updating some things before they go in. Some changes which have come in are not the final result, but part of a process of implementing things. Judging something like the EM changes as they currently are does not make much sense if you know that road skeleton is there to implement future zones. I suppose the argument could be made to implement everything at one time, but waiting until you have everything possible ready might never get done at all.

In summary, a bigger world is good if it adds to the atmosphere. Big additions take time and have to be done in phases. Be patient and things will work out well.

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Postby Vigis » Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:10 am

In all honesty, this change only affects melee classes.

I had a very long post typed out and was ready to submit it, but the line above is the meat of the matter.

Sure, mages can teleport. They can also relocate, priests can word or well, the melee classes get to walk.

A barb has a very long walk to WD, with the changes to the northern road, I think it is even longer. (that's okay though, we are used to longer since when Soj3 opened we had a nifty new pat to take).

I understand wanting a "backbone" along which to place zones, but are those zones going to be geared towards the lone adventurerer or a group?

When a melee char walks along the road, should they do anything except run their speedwalk path? I've never run one, but lately I have been sorely tempted. I'm not trying to slam any of the staff, but there is nothing along those roads that elicit more than a "huh, that's new" response from me.

Longer roads and slow as hell ferries don't make for much more fun for a semi-independent player.

BTW: Since the roads are longer, can we please speed up those slow as hell ferries? I can travel 30 miles in less than half a day, but the fuggin ferry can't make it across the river? Time to replace the rope pullers I think.

Time sinks are not as cool as they used to be :(
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Postby Sarell » Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:57 pm

Anyone teleporting to get places has to know where they are going and are familiar with the rooms, they probably have speedwalks anyhow, which are faster for most. I think tele is a fun way to get around for those readily prepared, a bit of spice. If we wan't to make the mud feel further around I think a better start would be to stop giving every mage class relo and gate since anyone in the know get's a mage to trans them anyhow? I'd like to see gate only for chanters and eles. Make moonwell, gate and hole +41 entry only perhaps.
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Postby Hsoj » Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:17 pm

As i hae attainted 41 alrdy i have no beef w/ that, LOL

kinda screws the lowbies who want to exp, but they needa learn to walk places anyways!
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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:31 am

sarell touches on a good point.

teleporting requires a lot more effort, knowledge and work than speedwalking... i've always preferred speedwalks to teleporting since its predictable and i don't have to think about where i landed or what direction i should go.
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Postby Lahgen » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:26 am

Hsoj wrote:kinda screws the lowbies who want to exp, but they needa learn to walk places anyways!


Then isn't that reason enough?
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Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:31 am

I just love how rangers can't track a mob that's in the next room, thanks to ridiculous coding techniques. But what the heck, if things made sense we'd probably think you sold your souls to the devil.
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Postby Eilistraee » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:16 pm

And I'm sure I've got that receipt around here somewhere
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Postby Marthammor » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:38 pm

I dunno who said the roads became longer, but they didn't. They are the exact same roads that were there before, you just can't teleport from one end to the other like you could before.

I may have had my distances wrong, and really, teleporting a hundred miles or so might be all fine and dandy. Expect all roads to grow in length to match how long they should be per forgotten realms maps. Currently rooms along the north roads are somewhere around 50-100 feet, so using 100 feet per room, one mile should be about fifty three rooms in length. Mithril Hall's current position to Waterdeep should be about 500 miles, give or take ten miles, so lets see.. 26500 rooms from Mithril Hall to Waterdeep sounds about right. /sarcasm

Yes, the change does hurt melee more then any of the casting classes. I personally walk those roads all the time with my chars and never use teleport potions or spells. I've never found the trip too hard to make or too time consuming. The speed of the ferry is a tad slow, as in mud terms, it takes it two and a half hours from side to side. To help newbies trying to get to Waterdeep to gain experience, I did add more of the foxes/worms/deer/ect along the roads and gave them a slight bump in exp, although I suspect most newbies will stay in Scardale anyway.

As more and more zones go in along roads, there _may_ be mages that set up a portal network or something that will send you someplace for a fee. Will bring it up to the forgers (just did since they read this stuff) and see if its something that fits with thier views on where the mud needs to go.

Anywho.. the flag used to prevent teleporting has been removed and other changes made to allow teleporting across the river from the north ferry dock to the south ferry dock and vise versa. No idea when the changes will make it into the game, but likely a few days to a week.
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Postby Llaaldara » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:59 pm

Marthammor wrote: you just can't teleport from one end to the other like you could before.


So what is the intent of the Teleport spell going to be now then? I have to admit, outside of using it to traverse these connector zones, I hardly used it before. Come to think of it, I used it a lot on connector zones, especially when fleeing a global tracker or by-passing a ferry. Is it just gonna be used to try and twink zones now - well ones that are !gate that is?

Seems like a lot of !tele in general going around.

Kinda seems like a step backwards in the wrong direction honestly. What's wrong with racing around the mud to those classes that can? I don't understand why this is suddenly an issue/problem.
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Postby Marthammor » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:26 pm

to further clerify, you can (or will be able to once the changes go in) teleport from mithril hall to the north ferry dock, across the ferry docks, from the south dock to the north of the neverwinter woods, around the inside of the woods (which was never changed to start with) and from the south of the woods to the great northern road.
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Postby Teshidee » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:46 pm

oh yeah, please lets make the game even more annoying, those who can transport i'm sure will love the many extra requests for well/relo/gate transport, when you change this totally important subject of how the mud should be traveled. i'm looking forward to now harder cring because you eventually will not make it back in time for the pop anymore after a total spank, that just rules. something has to be done to keep players in hard zones longer, since obviously we can finish them way too fast now. this is the worst idea i've heard about ever since. if you do not know the mud already you do not randomly teleport about. it's nice that it doesn't bother you to not use teleport potions and that you enjoy having to spend a lot of extra time on almost senseless traveling. i'm sure a lot of us do not agree.

i'm sorry, but aren't there less annoying to the player and more important to the game changes to be implemented that people have been asking for for years? go timesinks, i better quit my job so i can spend those extra minutes on the mud instead of earning money. *roll*
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Postby Birile » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:04 pm

Teshidee wrote:oh yeah, please lets make the game even more annoying, those who can transport i'm sure will love the many extra requests for well/relo/gate transport, when you change this totally important subject of how the mud should be traveled. i'm looking forward to now harder cring because you eventually will not make it back in time for the pop anymore after a total spank, that just rules. something has to be done to keep players in hard zones longer, since obviously we can finish them way too fast now. this is the worst idea i've heard about ever since. if you do not know the mud already you do not randomly teleport about. it's nice that it doesn't bother you to not use teleport potions and that you enjoy having to spend a lot of extra time on almost senseless traveling. i'm sure a lot of us do not agree.

i'm sorry, but aren't there less annoying to the player and more important to the game changes to be implemented that people have been asking for for years? go timesinks, i better quit my job so i can spend those extra minutes on the mud instead of earning money. *roll*


Someone skimmed the thread...
Malia
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Postby Malia » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:13 pm

gonna toss my 2cents in for what its worth.

1) our pbase decreases daily. Most of the low lvls are just alts of people that have multiple 50's not all but most

2) people leave because alot of reasons bordem is a big one, people get tired of waiting for people to lead zones or just blowing through the same zone 100x a month (brass)

I think that most of the changes to the road system recently have been a detriment to new players and to the older players as well and thus will cause even more pbase to leave

EM roads being all !TEL !gate is sad, specialy since all new elves just exp in Scarsdale so whats the point of this? just takes us longer to play the gate game and hit EM or spend 30min sailing to MS (this is the boring thing im talking about)

Southern road changes, so basicly we all have to learn new paths and write new speedwalks or teleport around some more.. lot more up/downs and moves get eatten up faster unless yer flying
-Who does this hurt more, old or new players? new ones cuz they get lost, die, run out of moves and wait for 10 min regening, or... log and never come back
-older players get bored waiting for moves too and start flipping through other games while resting or moving.. guess we lose some older players to this to


This all being said in a perfect world yeah the bigger roads make it more realistic allows more room to add zones and more geographicly correct I understand this.. and I apprecaite the hard work it takes to do this

On a realistic playing pbase players want to stay busy doing stuff all the time, the more down time we got the less likely any of us are to stick around. Anything that creates more downtime as realisitic as it might be is probably a determent to the mud.

What is the actual gain of running from CP to WD manualy without spells and without fly and without teleport? realistic value or game vaule?

sure dont make playing the game more fun.. and when we barely got 75 people loggin on id be first to say we need to make more fun for players not less.

Again in a perfect world all the changes are cool as hell, but we play in a really low pbase in a game that is harder and harder to play the more downtime we get.

Please take this with serious thought and not just as someone thats bitching and moaning. I want this mud to grow and flourish i love it and its been my home for 12+ years
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Postby Teshidee » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:21 pm

200% agree with malia.

and no, i didn't skim, i just fail to see how anyone could not see all the points malia made so i didn't bother to even try to make a reasonable post simila to malia's like i should have. instead i just posted what i thought in the typical sarcastic way that is me rl. *shrug* believe whatever you want tho.
Last edited by Teshidee on Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
teflor the ranger
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Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:23 pm

Teshidee wrote:200% agree with malia.


Two Teshidees? This is the greatesh day the mud has ever seen.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:32 pm

WoW
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Ambar » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:50 pm

Dalar wrote:WoW


World of Walking?

whee :P (damn targsk i STILL love that nickname)
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Postby Llaaldara » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:00 pm

Marthammor wrote:to further clerify, you can (or will be able to once the changes go in) teleport from mithril hall to the north ferry dock, across the ferry docks, from the south dock to the north of the neverwinter woods, around the inside of the woods (which was never changed to start with) and from the south of the woods to the great northern road.


So your goal is to force people thru neverwinter, correct?

OK, let's look at this. (Psst, pay attention readers) By limiting your destination rooms to specific rooms, it sounds like a more assured landing location. So effectively making the randomness of teleport.. actually not so random in these zones.

So players will have more assured arrival locations, it just takes more jumps on the average, then the previous randomly lucky far jump (for less tries) or the spammed til remem then get lucky far jump (for more tries) as previously done.

In a nutshell, you will now tele from the first room of a zone to the last with more assured success, move a room, repeat the process again, so the journey is now approx quicker then before (on the average), just more tedious and less random.

In a way, you are making Teleport work more like Dim Door, but without the target requirement. It's not a bad idea actually. Just takes the fun outa randomness I guess. But some I suppose will like this if they think about it. Just plz don't make entire connector zones !tele. I think that's what everyone is worried about and upset about.

Or am I missunderstanding Mar?
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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:07 pm

changing the roads is going to have little to no effect on the pbase. While it may be in the realm of "less" fun, your making mountains out of pebbles. No change in "walking" is going to bring one player back or cause one less player to leave.

For every player we lose to "i hate walking", I'm sure we gain at least one who says "wow what a big mud" or "wow, finally a mud i can't walk from one end to the other in 30 seconds" and "wow this place really does mirror the forgotten realms topography".
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Postby Marthammor » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:10 pm

You misunderstood my post, Llaaldara. The only assured starting and landing points are the north and south ferry docks. You can start land anywhere inbetween the points I listed otherwise. The points I listed being zone boarders, which I didn't mess with all that much from what they originally were. So.. its pretty much back to exactly how it was before.


Now, as to why we are changing the roads.
With the merger with Homeland, there are a lot of towns and other areas that they had that we don't. Those areas need someplace to connect and just connecting them to current roads isn't the best way to do it. End the end, things would be all smashed together. I agree that travel does suck if you have to walk/run everywhere. We're looking into ways to ease that as well I assure you.
However, we don't want Mithril Hall being right outside Waterdeep's northern gates, Baldur's Gate being right outside its south gates, and Zhentil Keep being outside its east gates. That doesn't leave much room to expand and add more of the content you guys seem to love, which is obviously not road changes, but more fun quests, eq zones, and story driven zones.

You have to at least admit that we're trying to work with you here rather then just telling you that this is the way its gonna be and deal with it. ;)
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Postby Hsoj » Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:44 pm

I heart new zones...
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