Trying to gather opinions

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
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Trying to gather opinions

Postby Ambar » Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:23 am

Been having a long term discussion about mud grouping rules in general with a fellow mudder. He just doesnt understand why he gets yelled at when he makes mistakes and feels that he should be treated a little nicer.

I personally dont get bothered if I get yelled at .. obviously I screwed up, and will learn to not do that in the future.

What do other people think? I KNOW it's just a game, but I TRULY feel if I messed up and caused 14 other folks extra work, I deserved the yelling.

This is possibly my background (no LLaaldara I'm not gonna say it:P) or just how I was basically taught on the mud. I don't think it's any type of holier than thou attitude, I just try hard to learn form those who have *been there* so my playing can be optimim. Do I feel that people should be talked donw to? No, I don't, but I do understand people get revved up about things, and adrenaline may cause a reaction that may not be present in a non-zoning atmosphere.

I'd rather be known and the person who gives 100% but makes small errors than the person who messes up ALL the time, I guess...

He will know who he is by my post, but I hope he choses to remain anonymous, cause I'm not telling his name. I just genuinely want other peoples opinions on the matter.

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Postby Corth » Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:58 am

My theory on these types of things is that nobody is forcing you to do anything. If you don't like that someone is 'yelling' at you, then lead your own group. If you don't like the way your boss talks to you, then quit. I certainly wouldn't want anyone in my group who screws up all the time. That would ruin my fun. I'm guessing the person your referring to muds more for social reasons than to actually play the game. Maybe hes in with the wrong clique.

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Postby Ambar » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:23 am

I get the feeling he'd like to be a power mudder but dosen't like the consequences of grouping with the higher end mudders who dont tolerate failure and inconsistencies.

My idea of a GOOD xp group is one who kills FAST and keeps going. Want to mem? Mem OUT, if you lose xp for the kill it makes you prioritize spells so that doesn't happen again. My idea o a GOOD zone group is one where the group as a whole is a cohesive unit, and yes people have to zone to learn but damn.. if people yell at you, don't make the same mistakes over and over. It's not about YOU getting out of the zone fastest, its about the whole grouo getting out. Small smite groups rely on EVERY member of the group. If one suddenly leaves, the group suffers. Exp groups are different in that its not a group or die matter, but if you just split groups time after time, you develop a bad rep and wont be groupable much longer.
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:41 pm

This is a game. It's supposed to be fun. Does yelling at new players for their mistakes help make the game more fun for them?
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Postby Latreg » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:48 pm

Ragorn wrote:This is a game. It's supposed to be fun. Does yelling at new players for their mistakes help make the game more fun for them?


probably not, consider the player base, can we afford to piss people off enough to quit? What would yelling and cursing someone out solve? Mistakes happen it's called being human (or whatever race you consider yourself ;) ) Now this is different than someone who is just screwing around and afk for no real reason. So guess it really depends on the circumstance, but first and foremost don't get a bad hard ass rep that will keep people away and not wanna play. People will get better with practice and experience in most cases.
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Postby Hsoj » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:30 pm

Corth wrote:If you don't like that someone is 'yelling' at you, then lead your own group. If you don't like the way your boss talks to you, then quit.


Some people have to keep the job to keep food on their plate, in the same way, if Mudder Mc Yell-a-lot is the only one who leads Zoney Mc Awesome-Eq then they have to put up with it (if they want neato shtuff). But in either case, getting yelled at by da MAN will result in being fired/ungrouped.


ambar wrote:What do other people think? I KNOW it's just a game, but I TRULY feel if I messed up and caused 14 other folks extra work, I deserved the yelling.


One good yelling and a whole lot of good natured ribbing later.

Higher end mudders everywhere could quaff a potion of tact every once in a while though, too.
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Postby Vigis » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:49 pm

The responsibility falls on both the leader and the follower. If you screw up in a zone, I'd suggest being quick to apologize. I've had my fair share of screwups anything and everything from jumping the Izan's portal too soon to having my keyboard completely fry during IC2 (there was some serious phone dialing going on to every mudder in my address book. "Hey, it's Vigis, if you are on, send a tell to Kiryan, my keyboard is F***ed! I'm running to the neighbor's to get a new one!")

You don't seem to get yelled at if you are apologetic, but if you are going to stand there and claim you did everything right and it is the leader's fault, be prepared to get chewed on.

I don't think there are as many hard-ass leaders as there used to be, but anybody can be set off. Manners and respect will go a long way towards a more enjoyable experience for everybody.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:08 pm

Umm. Why should anyone care?
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Postby kiryan » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:13 pm

i think people yell because they're insecure about accepting responsibility for the group's mistakes. they need to be perfect and when someone in their groups f*s up then they have to try and shift the blame. They wanted to lead so bad that they brought anyone, but are unable to accept the fault when someone screws up.

the only good reason to yell is if you enjoy belittling others, the rest is phony.
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Postby Hsoj » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:32 pm

Kiryan, how do you handle it when someone fubars greatly?

tefwus wrote:Umm. Why should anyone care?

If we ignore you, will you go away?

Edit: Be sure to scroll down to see Tef's sizzling reply!
Last edited by Hsoj on Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Pril » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:41 pm

Hsoj wrote:
tefwus wrote:Umm. Why should anyone care?

If we ignore you, will you go away?


Nope.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:26 pm

resol wrote:If we ignore you, will you go away?


If I ignore you, will you stop being a loser?
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Postby Dalar » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:48 pm

kiryan wrote:i think people yell because they're insecure about accepting responsibility for the group's mistakes. they need to be perfect and when someone in their groups f*s up then they have to try and shift the blame. They wanted to lead so bad that they brought anyone, but are unable to accept the fault when someone screws up.

the only good reason to yell is if you enjoy belittling others, the rest is phony.

Remember the first time I lead IC2 and we had that one ranger?
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Re: Trying to gather opinions

Postby Llaaldara » Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:34 pm

Ambar wrote:I personally dont get bothered if I get yelled at .. obviously I screwed up, and will learn to not do that in the future.

What do other people think? I KNOW it's just a game, but I TRULY feel if I messed up and caused 14 other folks extra work, I deserved the yelling.


I think it is important to note two different kinds of yelling. There is being yelled at by the leader, and there is being yelled at by the whole group - or rather them attempting to find a scape-goat for a spank. I'm going to assume you are talking about the first.

I never really agreed with yelling at someone for messing up, because usually they are just completely ignorant of what they were doing. It's just a lot more effective to point out to them what they did or are doing wrong, so they don't do it again. Seems to work a lot better.

Sure there are a lot of occasions where we want to scream bloody murder at someone for something they did, but yelling just makes you look like an ass and makes the person you're yelling at feel like crap and gets them mad more often then not.

That's Not exactly a great way to promote the Fun-Factor or keep group morale up.

The only time I think someone deserves to be yelled at is when they did/do it intentionally.
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Postby Teej » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:51 pm

I don't have a lot of time to play these days. Usually, I'll come along if I'm asked.

I'm not a top-end tank, but I listen and do my job. If I make a mistake, I'll own it and apologize, and if you yell at me or someone important to me after that, we're done. I'll finish the zone, but don't bother me again until you're willing to take a deep breath before tapping that there caps-lock and dusting off your dictionary of profanities. I do listen. So tell me if there's something you don't think I know, and I'll make every effort to keep things straightened away.

Someone yelled at someone important to me for fifteen minutes while we did a CR (it was an issue of bad luck), and had the gall to say 'oh, I'm just a hothead, don't listen to anything I say.' Well, I don't listen to anything he says, including any group requests unless it's for a CR (since CR's are different altogether).

There is no point in wasting my time with people who get a kick out of yelling and browbeating. Feel free to find someone more of your mindset if you like to do that. I have better things to do.
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Postby Hsoj » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:10 pm

Teej wrote: (since CR's are different altogether).

Allow me the noobliness of asking how-so?
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Postby Nekelet » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:55 pm

Because w/ CR's people are at the very real risk of losing everything should it take longer than the 18 hours and crash.

Worst of enemies come together to help if they can in a CR situation.
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Postby Hsoj » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:56 pm

So if someone asks for help w/ a cr I am obliged to help?
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Postby Nekelet » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:59 pm

if they can...

not obliged, no. but if you're screwed somewhere, wouldn't you like to be able to call in the cavalry?
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Postby Teej » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:13 pm

I consider CR's to be different, yes, because of the losses that can happen. Not going with someone to a zone means they take someone else, but not helping with a CR might mean it couldn't get done and now someone's stuck trying to buy or zone for the gear all over again. Maybe their friend's gear too, maybe my friend's gear.

It is not worth the price. I don't feel any joy in the thought of someone I resent losing his or her gear. And if I turned my back, when I could have done something, I'm even worse than they are.
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Re: Trying to gather opinions

Postby Valuk » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:30 pm

Ambar wrote:Been having a long term discussion about mud grouping rules in general with a fellow mudder. He just doesnt understand why he gets yelled at when he makes mistakes and feels that he should be treated a little nicer.

I personally dont get bothered if I get yelled at .. obviously I screwed up, and will learn to not do that in the future.
-J


Well, after considering your post I think it all boils down to a few things.

Those being....

Were they getting yelled at over gsay or over tell? If it was being done over gsay...then that shows a lack of a TRUE leader/manager. Because a TRUE leader/manager NEVER ever downgrades or yells at someone in front of others even if the others know that that person f'ed up.

If it was done over tell....then they should take the "advice" and learn from it.

Just my .05 cents (raised from .02 cents due to price gouging from oil companies)
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Postby Mertak » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:34 pm

Noone is obliged to help with CRs, but some of us feel honour-bound to help. I will switch to a goodie, dust off a retired char, drop things and run to help out with a CR. Back on S1/Toril, my 'zerker turned warrior used to just hang out in the Inn getting drunk, but I'd die as many times as it took to get a loaded corpse back! I took great pride in the fact that anyone who knew me knew that I was the king of the mid and lowbie CR.

Just my pleasantly off-topic thoughts...

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Re: Trying to gather opinions

Postby teflor the ranger » Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:23 am

Valuk wrote:If it was being done over gsay...then that shows a lack of a TRUE leader/manager. Because a TRUE leader/manager NEVER ever downgrades or yells at someone in front of others even if the others know that that person f'ed up.

If it was done over tell....then they should take the "advice" and learn from it.


Who needs a true leader when the one you have is good enough to get you through the zone?

Quite frankly, isn't it a waste to have a true leader playing the mud? Shouldn't they be heading its development, or overseas leading our troops in Iraq? For that matter, the UN desperately needs management from non-corrupt true leaders.

A true teamplayer doesn't take yelling personally and always tries to improve themselves and how they work as a team.

If you have a right to a perfect leader, we have a right to perfect team members.

But you know, we'll all just have to settle for less around here, to the rest of you all that mud, we just may have to settle for you.
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Yelling

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:05 am

I don't think yelling, cursing, or putting down anyone for mistakes they've made is at all tolerable. This is just a game. I've seen horrible things being done while zoning (and done plenty and plenty myself), but I've never cursed or yelled at anyone. I might have mentioned it to a friend while zoning through tells, saying how the person screwed up, but I'd never want to hurt someone that way.

If someone screws up, best thing I've found to do is just explain to them later what they should have done. And if necessary, tell them right there what they should do through tells, but never publically. I think more so than not it is just common courtesy and having manners.

Yelling, cursing, etc just shows signs of weakness on the part of the person doing it. I'm pretty sure that person would never do something like that in real life. Something about cowardice.

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Re: Yelling

Postby teflor the ranger » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:10 am

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:I don't think yelling, cursing, or putting down anyone for mistakes they've made is at all tolerable.


Then don't tolerate it.

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Yelling, cursing, etc just shows signs of weakness on the part of the person doing it. I'm pretty sure that person would never do something like that in real life. Something about cowardice.


Not like you aren't yelling at them for yelling. If you can't take it, perhaps it is your own cowardice.
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Re: Trying to gather opinions

Postby Yarash » Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:58 am

Ambar wrote:He just doesnt understand why he gets yelled at when he makes mistakes and feels that he should be treated a little nicer.

If I make a mistake, the emberrasment is enough to generally prevent me from doing it again. Yelling at someone does not improve the game's fun factor. Privately and calmly discussing the matter is a much better option.

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Postby Lilira » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:12 am

There is also the option to just not go with that zone leader for a long time. I have done it. My biggest gripe is when the other members of the group start in on you if you screw up. I don't mind a Hey.. you should have done this, sorta tell, God knows Pidibeple has steered me through a few zones, especially if it was my first couple times zoning with my voker.

Hateful barrages of words filled with expletives, whether over gsay, say, or tells are NOT necessary in any circumstance. I don't mind being shouted at for screwing up, but have the courtesy to be truthful, not hateful.

This has been one of my pet peeves for quite some time. The rudeness people on the mud display towards others, and it doesn't even have to be in a group. If someone screws up, try politely instructing them, instead of yelling/cursing them. If you don't think you can send someone a tell without being civil, stop, count to ten, then retype it.

*shrug* Just my 2c.
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Postby Ambar » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:18 am

Hmm in this case the guy DID mess up .. a few times over a couple of days. In different groups, for different offenses. He asked my opinion on one of them, and I was grouped with him on another of thsoe occasions and the bf grouped with him the third time. With his messups he asked MY opinion. I was pretty ticked off about OUR grouping incident (he bailed on a group IN progress when the chips were pretty down (his char was pretty group essential and the group fell apart after he left for lack of replacement)). He left our group to go zone, and got yelled at by THAT zone leader AND several group members (all guildies of the group leader) for screwing up. The next event was a xp group, as a cleric, he Shabayed with NO notice to the group, NO attempt to try to find a replacement, no "hey man I gotta jet in ten mins, find a replacement." .. He just up and worded.

He asked my opinion on these matters, I told him the group leader was right in scolding him for what he did, if you are going to play with the big guys, you take whats dished out and learn from it.

For the last few weeks he has pretty much complained to me about a certain group of people and how he feels he gets tretaed by them, how this makes them "holier than thou", and I haven't been able to tell my true felings because, well to be honest I dislike being mean to people outright. I later get word of a mistell by this guy to a friend of mine, "Man, I hate Ambar's attitude sometimes." .. After I have defended this guy time and again! He is a decent guy, he just isnt ready for that gamestyle yet.

I can't help that the caliber of people he tries to group with have ways of dealing with errors far more harshly than the lower caliber of players. Face it .. if you are gonna play with the big dogs, ya gotta get off the porch!

Is there room to learn by his mistakes and move on? Sure there is! I guess I was mainly asking group leaders how they felt, how the Lilithelle Sarell's and Pava's would react if this guy kept screwing up over and over, and how they'd deal with it. From the followers (me) I want the opinion on how to talk to the guy without coming across as a harsh bitch (I am not that way truly) when I just wanna tell him to grow thick skin! Learn from your mistakes, stop whining and move on!

Edit: Yes, I know this IS a game, thats why I posted here in the GAMEplay section :P But there are different levels of game play, and we ALL know it! Find your niche, the peoploe you are most comfortable with. Do your job, dont have to be told twice to do something, dont repeat mistakes (I personally make a LOT of mistakes, hell I screwed up on the first evils Tia run :P instead of looking south I MOVED south right into a BEAUTIMOUS little spot .. but I dont make the same mistake twice) and listen to those who have been there.

Also, dont talk about people behind their back, they WILL find out :P Some of us have minions all over!

*gig*
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Postby Nilan » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:55 pm

Just a comment.

First off, I dont think its right for anyone....and i mean anyone....to yell, swear, belittle, or harass another player. I think its dead wrong.

Second, if hes the kind of person that just up and words or ditches the group its pretty simple, just dont ask him to group no more. Still the yelling screaming etc...is not warranted. Just simply dont group with that person.

Thirdly, I dont care who you are, no one should swear at be rude to another person. I dont care if you are the mightyest zone leader power gamer ever....that doesnt give you or anyone the right to treat others poorly.

This is a game its supposed to be fun. Rude people can destroy that attmosphere for everyone. If you cant say it in real life to a person, face to face. Then for gods sake dont hide behind status and a damn computrer screen like a coward. Best thing to remember is not to say it at all.

Its not polite and does nothing to help the overall game

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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:14 am

nilan,

What about the people who enjoy belittling others and being rude?

Take away their fun so you can have your fun?
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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:17 am

nilan,

What about the people who enjoy belittling others and being rude?

Take away their fun so you can have your fun?
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Postby Nilan » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:27 am

Kiryan,

Then I pity those types of unhappy insecure people. And I pity this game if thats the type of conduct thats condoned by anyone.

If thats how people get their fun, belittleing, harassing and making fun of others, then I truely feel sorry for them as human beings.

Nilan
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:36 am

Kiryan, we all have to make concessions in order to get what we want, here. History in this game has shown us that assholishness tends to drive players away. If you want to retain your pbase, then you might want to tone it down some. Not everybody has to be all sweetness and innocence, but if you're a dick to all the other kids on the playground, eventually you're left playing alone.
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:05 pm

Ambar wrote:He asked my opinion on these matters, I told him the group leader was right in scolding him for what he did, if you are going to play with the big guys, you take whats dished out and learn from it.


Was it scolding, or was it flaming? Did the group leader say "Listen, you just can't do that in a zone group, you're going to get us all killed" or did the leader say "WTF, you fucking do that again and I will leave your stupid ass at 1w until you die of crotch rot"? One method helps people learn, one makes people quit.

If it were me, I would find the kid in WD one day and invite him to lavish. I'd sit him down in a private group and explain the social context of the game. If he's never played an online multiplayer game, he may not understand that you can't just bug out on a group without warning. So I would explain to him some of the mistakes he's made, the consequences to the group because of those mistakes, and the consequences to him if he isn't able to adjust his playstyle/behavior.

If he takes it well, then you've made a friend for life and saved a player. If he gets lippy and defensive, that's his problem. If he doesn't like your attitude, then I'd advise him to just quit before he words out of a zone group and has to face the wrath of not one, but 14 angry mudders who are less concerned about his feelings than you are.

That's life. We're all people behind the keyboards. What you say and do does affect other people, whether it's wording out of a group or yelling at someone for doing so.
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Postby Ambar » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:04 pm

I'd have to find out how the guy got *scolded*.

After talking to him for about 2.5 hrs online yesterday, it seems to me that he 'd consider getting a traffic ticket a personal affront. He says he will work on his *everyone is out to get me* attitude. I told him over and over and over that if he didnt like it to STOP grouping with them. Also told him some of the *noob* attitude is a rite of passage of sorts. Much like a fraternity, hell week is soon over and you can now be the *big dog*. He refuses to accept that aspect, and feels it is just *not right*, feels he has been *mistreated and disrespected*.

Funny thing is, I grouped with a couple guys when they first started who are now in a top end guild and I NEVER heard of this abuse, nor did I suffer from it as a noob (o wait I am STILL a noob).

What it LOOKS like it boils down to is that guy thinks the mid-end players arent good enough to group with but the high end mudders are assholes. I told him he has to find his own niche and work things out.

I also think I'm done with this matter, can only help those who chose to help themselves. After talking to the guy over and over and saying the same things I feel like a broken record.

In all honesty I feel he has NOT been treated unfairly or unjustly. He has NOT been mistreated but needs to get used to the mentality and firece competitiveness of the high end mud, or stay in Waterdeep and defend its borders.

I was lucky enough to have the BEST teachers out there (in MY opinion) and got to know the biggest asshoels in the game, and found a family there. I was taught by the Lazz's, the Jaznolgs, The Ssryths, the Dezzex's, yes the Cherzra's, the Jegzed's, the Sslariss, the *pinkies*, the Lurgos and Ooshes and Baldoraks. I have SEEN people get yelled at and I have SEEN people get blacklisted. This is simply not happening in this case.

Anyway, good luck to him, hope he reads this and takes in what he needs to, ignores the rest and above all starts to LEARN from his mistakes. What makes the game fun to him, the sunflowers and daisies, makes it BORING for others. Think of it as going to an amusement park. Me, I LOVE the rides, the scarier the better! For some, they like the games and shops, the safe stuff are the most fun.

-Peace

-Jennifer
"When a child is born, so is a grandmother."



-Italian Proverb
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:21 pm

Ambar wrote:Funny thing is, I grouped with a couple guys when they first started who are now in a top end guild and I NEVER heard of this abuse, nor did I suffer from it as a noob (o wait I am STILL a noob).


Oh, I did, here and there. And I've seen a ton of it over the forum. Especially over equipment. People who bid for alts, people who sell/trade equipment and quest items, people who don't go to zones that they don't need gear from... all of these aspecting of zoning life tweak peoples' feathers. All have incited flame wars on this forum in the past.

It sounds to me like this incident is probably somewhere between his fault and the group's. Perhaps your friend's skin could be a little thicker, but nobody deserves to be *abused* for their in-game actions, unless those actions are harmful, purposeful, and malicious. Wording out of an experience group is probably grounds for a "what the fuck, man," but it's not a good reason to flame someone out.

Best wishes to your friend.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Adriorn Darkcloak
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Re: Yelling

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:00 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Yelling, cursing, etc just shows signs of weakness on the part of the person doing it. I'm pretty sure that person would never do something like that in real life. Something about cowardice.


Teflor the Ranger wrote:Not like you aren't yelling at them for yelling. If you can't take it, perhaps it is your own cowardice.


I've never yelled or cursed at anyone in the game Teflor. If I comment on my opinions regarding these people, I am in no way "yelling, cursing or putting anyone down". I'm not sure you understood what I meant.
teflor the ranger
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Re: Yelling

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:59 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:
Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Yelling, cursing, etc just shows signs of weakness on the part of the person doing it. I'm pretty sure that person would never do something like that in real life. Something about cowardice.


Teflor the Ranger wrote:Not like you aren't yelling at them for yelling. If you can't take it, perhaps it is your own cowardice.


I've never yelled or cursed at anyone in the game Teflor. If I comment on my opinions regarding these people, I am in no way "yelling, cursing or putting anyone down". I'm not sure you understood what I meant.


No, you just call them weak cowards - my bad.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
Sarell
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Location: brisbane, australia

Postby Sarell » Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:40 am

Here's 2c.

I don't expect people that I don't know, to know what they are meant to do in every situation on the mud. It's a big game and takes ages to learn. I don't think abusing people helps at all ever. If I do something wrong and someone tells me I'm stupid or an idiot, I'm pretty sure I'm not, so I take offense. There is nothing wrong with not knowing how to do something, everyone starts completely 'newb' and no-one knows everything.

If someone does something wrong because they didn't and couldn't know what to do, I see that as my fault for not communicating effictevely as a leader. If someone does something wrong after I've specifically asked them to do one little something, using their name, or as a repeated group command, I get annoyed. AFKness, listening to the 'not the leader' and not doing your little part of the group ruin the fun and momentum for everyone. I won't flame you, it doesn't help to learn better in my opinion, but I won't have you at the top of my list to do a zone again. I might send a tell to the player mentioning that they didn't do X. I might hope they learn from their mistakes, but ultimately if they wern't paying any attention the first two times it probably isn't going to help in my experience.

Sometimes when you are issuing commands in a group you do not have time to explain every little reason behind each thing a person must do. If someone has lead several thousand zones, have some faith and do what they ask, you might be the master of your class, but they are the master of group dynamics. If they ask you not to silence a mob specifically, then don't. If they use the term MUST in a command in big letters like that, it's pretty important, probably more important than your armor or bless.

Ways to avoid these sticky situations are -
1. If you don't have the time for a zone, or your partner is coming home, don't go zoning.
2. If your at work, don't go zoning.
3. If you are new to a zone, tell the leader, be honest, when people in my groups do this I always make an extra effort to send them a tell before any major battles letting them know what's going on for their class, where we are, what we're up against kind of thing.
4. If you don't like the leader, and think you might have to be verbal about it during the zone, don't go in the group, save your arguments for when they are not trying to coordinate 15 peoples' time.
5. It's a game. 3nj0y.

Point 3, if you do it, takes the ownice of problems off you and onto the leader a bit aswell. I often like to take a secondary shaman or enchanter to learn the ropes in a big zone before they are pitted against it themselves where the whole group is reliant on them being fairly exacting. I'f you havn't zoned or you've only ever fought up to 3 mobs at once before, don't make BC your first zone.
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
Adriorn Darkcloak
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Re: Yelling

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:31 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:No, you just call them weak cowards - my bad.


Correct!

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