Charged Weapons

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
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Charged Weapons

Postby Gormal » Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:19 am

It would be sweet if I could tell when my weapon procs are charged up. Just a thought.
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Postby Sarell » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:20 am

Of a similar nature. It is crazy that misty now uncharges when you remove it to summon totem. I wield it permanently on shammy and it really bugs me when this happens. I liked the old misty, it was powerful, but it is also loki's weapon! It wasn't game breaking powerful.
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Postby Eilistraee » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:41 am

I have to disagree - I played in the days when both misty and giantbane were called procs and the elite players had bags full of them. They would simply cycle the weapons to make sure the appropriate effect was always applied to their target, and blind is a very powerful tool.

I will investigate making some means for a person to tell the charged status of their items though.
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Postby Gormal » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:45 am

removing weapons should not uncharge them. If I fuck up a disarm, I love the proc. If I switch out (which all warriors do with proc weapons do) then i lose the proc, If I remove weapon to use staves/etc, I lose the proc.

Let us see when its charged.
Let us remove the weapons.

Make mistweave blow up again on proc attempt, anyone who can stockpile a bag of those... power to em! Still not as powerful as some other items I won't mention.
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Postby Sarell » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:02 am

I like the old misty more than the new misty. Old misty was fun, new misty isn't, I still use it as an infra item. Now and then I think, OH I could save the day with my misty I always hold, then I realise oh no, I summoned totem earlier nm. Perhaps weapons should be able to charge if they are in your inventory, but not in your bag and increase the time on misty? I only know one person who was able to stockpile enough misties to cycle them effectively. I was impressed if anything! I actually don't see a problem with someone who was able to accumulate 20 mistweaves being more powerful than someone who only has one, I'd like to see more instances where a five year old character actually looks and plays differently to a 1 year old one. I confess in full that they were powerful, but I don't think they did anything game damaging / unbalancing.
Last edited by Sarell on Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gormal » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:05 am

with the blowup factor you can't cycle em too badly either.
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Postby ssar » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:12 am

Agree, something needs to be done about charged weapons/items.

Yea, please add a way to tell "The special effect magic on this item appears to be approaching full strength.", "The special effect magic on this item appears to be quite weak." when you id it or something.

Unwielding the weapon should not reduce or remove the charge.

The time it takes to charge an item should be proportional to how easy it is to get, and should be reduced across the board.

The amount of chrges an item holds should also be increased for most items, and be proportional to how hard the item is to get.

There should be more special effects, charged and proc stuff overall ;)
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Postby Maedor » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:29 pm

allowing weapons in inventory to chargeretain charges would allow people SOME flexibility when using charged items, yet still make it hard to stockpile enough charges to cycle them forever.

As it is, 99% of charged items are completely worthless.

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Postby Eilistraee » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:55 pm

Charged items are not meant to be used as reusable potions. I'm sorry if you disagree, but that's the simple fact of the matter. I opted to not force a removal of charge for certain long-charge items like the finder's cloak and ymir cloak.

But otherwise, if you wish to make use of an item, then use the item and not just its magic.
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:15 pm

For weapons that have a charge, like trident of undead, it's fumbled too often to recharge.
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Postby Ambar » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:22 pm

It's not THAT bad to curse em tho
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Postby Birile » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:25 pm

Ambar wrote:It's not THAT bad to curse em tho


Especially if--like the trident of the undead--their only use is their proc.
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Postby Lahgen » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:49 pm

and its damage dice has been seriously nerfed lately anyway.
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Postby rylan » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:03 am

It would be cool if charged weapons uncharge when not wielded at the same rate that it took to charge them. That would get around the fumble or switch weps and lose the charge issue, and still prevent the cheese of stockpiling weps in a bag, since they would lose their charge.
Dunno how difficult that is to code.
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Postby Sarell » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:44 am

That's a really good idea Rylan. It would stop people from being able to charge up multiples but wouldn't ruin it when you have to move it for something. Trident is another good example of the problem as you often need to use lockpicks.
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Postby kiryan » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:31 pm

ooh also sucks when you die and lose your charge.
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Postby Hsoj » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:37 pm

I died the other day and lost my charge card.. had to call the bank and cancel it, really suxored
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Postby Yayaril » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:33 pm

8)

Why can't charged items just be used for their magic and not as gear?

Case and point: boots of speed in DnD. They cost 12k and give you 10 rounds of haste a day. You can stockpile as many pairs of these in your bag of holding you want and be hasted for almost every fight. I've never met a GM who told me this was gamebreaking.

Luckblade: This sword can have up to 3 wishes on it, and also allows you to reroll one roll a day. You don't even have to be wielding it to do this. Like anyone is ever going to wield this thing?

Slippers of spider climb: Another limited use item that let's you walk up walls for a certain amount of time each day. These things get switched off and on constantly.
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Postby Eilistraee » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:29 pm

Well, in D&D you can also cast only X amount of spells per 24 hour period.
Clerics can't recover spells they've cast up to 8 hours before their recovery point.
Mages need a certain amount of rest to be able to recover their spells.
Sorcerers are only permitted to know a limited number of spells.


D&D is all well and good, but there are some concepts utilized by that system that don't translate to the MUD terribly well.
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:55 am

Eilistraee wrote:Well, in D&D you can also cast only X amount of spells per 24 hour period.
Clerics can't recover spells they've cast up to 8 hours before their recovery point.
Mages need a certain amount of rest to be able to recover their spells.
Sorcerers are only permitted to know a limited number of spells.


D&D is all well and good, but there are some concepts utilized by that system that don't translate to the MUD terribly well.


Isn't that how bards work here in Toril? Only so many spells per 24 hour period?

I thought mages in Toril also need rest to recover their spells- in the form of sitting and meditating.

It'd be nifty if you could only know a certain number of spells out of a larger array of spells in Toril- I applaud that idea!

Frankly, I still don't see how stockpiling items is going to kill the game.
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Postby Maedor » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:29 am

Yayaril wrote:Frankly, I still don't see how stockpiling items is going to kill the game.


...but i do see how weapons/items losing their charge sio easily makes the items worthless :(

i agree that you shouldnt be able to have bags and bags of items to keep charged all the time...but it also pretty much makes called proc items worthless with the current code

i'd vote for items in inventory to retain charges, and they only charge when worn

You can only pack so much crap in your inventory...and it's a nice balance between the worthlessness of called proc items currently, and they uber gamebreakingness that they apparently used to have..shrug
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Postby Malia » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:49 am

well, i still dont see how the proc items are game breaking.. are they helpful yes, do people that stockpile them have an easier time.. yes

But those people that have them, or stock piled them pluged away at them and did the zone multiple times to get that item and most proc items are nerfed so bad no one wears em

We need to find a ballance if people really think they are game breaking, cuz we have gone from game breaking(really dont think it was) to completely useless

look at some of the items

Trident of the undedad----- only evil warrior and necro can wield it now, necro can just make a pet if he needs it, and warrior is gonna fumble it so bad that it will never holds its charge, its dice and damage are so nerfed that most people wouldnt even wear it past lvl 15. The pet that it summons would be enough to tank maybe a sedewai farmer.. Useless in my opinion a dust collector

Vermilion sleeves---- great proc haste but its like 1xper 2days 48 min i think woopie.. its a zone that rearely gets done, the dragon in the end is basicly undoable so zone only gets part done anyways and sleeves are ungetable without doing dragon. does anyone really wear them? no the stats dont warrent wearing them, and you dont get proc without wearing em so almost impossible to get (cept the ones currently in game) and useless with current stats so dust collector

Icicle cloak---- again nifty proc, loads maybe 1xper 6+ months and one it does load odds of someone finding it (since jot is rarely checked except for visable rares) is slim to none. Stats on this item make it not worth wearing compared to other about body items.. again same like vermilion sleeves uber rare to currently get not worth wearing with current stats so never chraged and another dust collector

Giantbane--- Great weapon, and this one was prolly zone breaking after a certain number came into the game we just cycled them and loki and every mage never stood up. currently as is, its proc is patheticly rare, i dual them on pava and get the proc maybe 1x per fight, yet i see torin proc like every 3-4 rounds and they are wielding only 1 while im dualing them.. think these just need their proc to be looked at a bit and upped.

there are many more but becase of stat changes and !charging without wearing/wielding they mostly have become dust collectors.. When was the last time you really saw any of these items in action? they were great items and now they just sit in bags.... These items are too rare or fun or whatever to sit in bags, please reconsider how much dg'd has been done to some of these items and maybe give them some loving. I would sure love to see some of these items be used on a more regular basis

As far as stock piling goes, if a player goes to clouds 30x and wins sleeves 5 of those timex, more power to them, that rocks that they can stay hasted most of the time with the sleeves.. and makes me wanna win them too, which gives me desire to go to clouds. They deserve the item for the effort they have put in. As it is now, what is the desire for any of these items?
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Postby Botef » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:14 am

Are all charged items only chargable by wearing/wielding? I could have sworn Izans ice staff recharges in your inventory, as I very seldomly wear it, but pop an ice elemental out fairly regularly.

Trident is useless now, and for the most part always was...I used to have a bag full of them solely to toss out to ghasts and have them all summon pets for show, but I've gotten rid of most of them for fear of just up and losing them to a crash while waiting for the charge up...

One thing that really bugged me about that change was the lose of charge on a crash/rent. Dunno if thats still the case or not.

Maybe code a timer that allows items to recharge in your inventory, but only one - as in if you have 5 tridents in your inventory, only one of them is ever charged/charging...Probably a nightmare to code, and not really that needed but an idea non the less.
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Postby muxxissinix » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:42 am

[quote="Eilistraee"]I have to disagree - I played in the days when both misty and giantbane were called procs and the elite players had bags full of them.

Make items discharge when you put its inside a container just like psp_crystals,

If you know how psp_crystal works then , I don't see which is the problem.
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Postby kiryan » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:27 am

clearly half of you didn't play 10 years ago otherwise you'd understand the insanity that was mistweave, frostbite, faith, giantbane, ect..

mistweave was the most broken one imo, first it was area blind, so the leader would have 10 mistweaves and blind all major fights himself (mobs would auto heal themself to cure blind so were completely owned). then they made it targeted blind with chance to area so the leader would hand out 15 mistweaves and each person would target blind a differnet mob. then they made it explode which made it worthless, now it needs 3 hours to charge and is still basically worthless.

you all have a point that most of the charge weapons currently in game are worthless, but id still look at it as game breaking if you could charge/hoard an unlimited # of items.
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Postby kiryan » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:28 am

muxx, an elf can hold what about 12 items in his inventory?
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Postby muxxissinix » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:09 pm

Squids can have differents psp_crystal on his inventory, but only can use one.
I think you can find a better solution, its all I am saying Kiryan.

At least what bother me is when i have to remove my about body to wear wings and then the item lost the charge.
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Postby Verarb » Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:45 pm

hrm hrm i thought mistweave and giantslayer always had like a 25% chance of a facial.
As far as gamebreaking the only time ive ever seen it used to affect the dynamics of combat was at tiamat, but so what? it was tiamat! and jot invasion when there was no target silence or SP.
Its not easy to stockpile some of these items.
If you are willing to sacrifice your life AND the item for the proc then more power to the player imo.
I've always liked the idea of some zones where you had to prepare via full heal pendants and etc, gives some flavor.
i doubt people would ever sac those breaking items and exp under ordinary circumstances. Its just not economical.

PS. im waaaaay biased, loved the way we did tia and invasion back then, we had to compete with giantslayer when the other group had artis, it was a race. was exciting as all hell.

PPS. I have like 1232341214976 misties in my bag. anyone else?
I dont remember a situation where i could have abused them. but i guess its moot now.
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Postby moritheil » Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:13 am

Eilistraee wrote:Charged items are not meant to be used as reusable potions.


What are they supposed to be used as? Obviously, a chargeable 1d6 sword is just a trash sword without the charge. I don't get why the motion was made to decrease the incidence of charge use rather than simply decrease the effectiveness of the actual effect.
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