Disappointment with General Direction of Mud

[Mikar Darkraven]

I don't mean this post to be my own personal bitch session. I realize the Imms put alot of work into the mud and I respect the work they do and the fact that they run a game that is free to us. One of the often asked questions is why the player base is shrinking and why are people leaving. Because of Hurricane Katrina, I relocated out of New Orleans and am returning back to school full time in the spring. Because of this change in circumstances, I have had the opportunity to return to the mud over the last month or so. I have really been disappointed with the state of the mud and just wanted to post some of my thoughts.

I think one of the most difficult tasks Imms face during the evolution of a mud is how to keep the playerbase interested as the base gains power (in the form of levels and equipment). In previous incarnations of the mud, the answer was often in the form of nerfed equipment or wipes. The response this time has been the creation of new or altered zones in the form of SPOB/Seelie/Izans/BC/Tiamat. In doing so, unfortunately the mud has become extremely one dimensional. Why would anyone in their right mind want to do Astral, normal Jotunheim, Brass, Citadel, Crypts, Gith, Skerttd-Gul, Portions of Underdark, etc. these days? One of the great things about Sojourn is the vast world that it is and the imagination it can inspire. Yet 90% of the world is no longer accessed anymore because all the items worth getting are now in a few new zones. Running through multiple little zones in an evening is what alot of people used to thrived off of. It gave the new players new zones to experience and the old players the thrill of powering through some zones. It meant you could log on for a few hours and have a hell of a time even if you got no equipment. Now you have to spend several hours and multiple deaths for a 5% chance at an item. Even worse, the items in the new zones are rare load, which in itself is not a bad idea, but this means that people ONLY want to do the new zones because the item they want is in the new zone and it will take several chances to get it.

Even experience has become one dimensional. It is either Druid Sanctuary, Spirit Raven, or Smoke. There used to be alot of fun exp in the form of elite guards, tower of high sorcery, and Moonshaes wizzies.

There are 16 non-repetitious slots on all classes. And there are 2 general classes in the form of casters and fighters. That gives you 32 slots or items. Why not place the 32 highest tier items in 32 different zones. Hell you can even make them all rare load as long as the next tier of items is evenly distributed throughout all zones. As the mud gains power, add new zones but place only ONE high tier item in that new zone as to not isolate players to only the new zones. If the mud continues to gain power, add higher tier items to existing zones to refresh interest in old zones. What would be more enjoyable to the player base? To do SPOB over and over or to have a night on the mud where you smacked some duergars in UD for an item for an hour, then went to Jotunheim for two hours, and then went to Ice Crag for the last hour.

In addition, the isolation of the mud to a limited number of zones is also making the life of a new Sojourner or lower level characters uneventful. If all the high level chars are sitting around doing nothing except waiting for someone to lead one of a select few zones, what impression does that lead on the new Sojourner? If a new Sojourner sees only people doing exp in DS, or smoke, or pirate ship, and not in their backyard on the walls of WD or closeby, what does that inspire in them? In a sense, the rich are getting richer, and the poor are leaving.

Finally, those of you who have the crappy elitist attitude on the mud, I hope you ar enjoying yourself, but your attitude is what is killing the mud.
If your kicks in life really come from acting better than someone else because you have certain items that someone else doesn't, you should re-evaluate your life. You are missing the beauty of Sojourn! I have been insulted through and through about getting people spanked in the past during my zone leads. But there is one thing noone can take away from me. While the elite take a select group of people into a zone because they have the best eq, I took and still take anyone over level 40 regardless of equipment. It is why you see my mentioning group formations on lfg as opposed to just searching out the best of the best. Does it mean we might die more? Sure. But teaching new players and showing them new zones is one of the joys of Sojourn. And the unknown element it brings to the group is what made Sojourn exciting.

Finally, zones like tiamat or Jotunheim invasion are one of the most disappointing elements to the current state of the mud. If an element of a zone is designed for the pure purpose of killing off members of the group (i.e. high % insta death procs in tiamat or room pop procs in Jot invasion), then you have taken all the skill out of leading a zone. It no longer becomes about the comradery of the group since everyone is needlessly dying, but only about the end result: the loot. It fosters the elitist attitude that is killing this mud and ruins the beauty of adventure and skill in running a zone.

These are my random ramblings. Maybe they will hit home with some of the player base. Time to fade back into darkness.

Mikar

[Tasan]

unnecessary drama deleted.

[kiryan]

The only comment I really have to make is that I don't think anything has really changed except the pbase. When there were 200 active players at all time and thousands of total players, and groups weren't limited to 15 people, zones had more longevity because it took 25 trips (or more) to get a skull earring.

You still had elitism, you still had trash talking, you still had hoarding and people who were more willing to do the zones they needed eq from than the ones they weren't, you still had 5 zones with the majority of the best eq in the game.

I'd kinda agree with you that with extremely rare (tiamat) exception, the best eq for a slot for a class / race should be in a zone by itself and perhaps other 2nd best slots or 3rd best slots. The amount of top slots that spob has is ridiculous, and the amount of top cleric maxwis slots that mielich has is also ridiculous.

Adding to that, the amount of eq that musphelim and spob have is just mind boggling even if lots of the eq is no longer top end. Where is the room for new zones when musphelim has 60 items that are moderate to great and spob has another 60-80 moderate to great items?

[Mikar Darkraven]

Tasan,

Your post is completely pointless.


Add to that the general attitude that "hey I led once, I can lead anything" and you wind up spending 2.5 hours with nothing to show for it.

I have led thousands of zones during my 11 years on Sojourn. I was the first to lead Southern Forest. I was the first to lead Magma. Both first time explorations were successful to the end with equipment. I am not the best leader but I am fairly confident in my ability to lead.


Multiple times I warned you about things in the zone and you completely ignored me. Multiple times you left people behind by not letting people know what was going on or by simply not paying attention to when procs happened.

Your basis for entering our group was asking how the equipment was going to be split and then going on a tirade because I was going to bid it all straight up. You complained throughout the entire trip. I chose to ignore you. Multiple others offered advice throughout and I took it. I wrote you off before the group even started. Two of the ten deaths were from me leaving someone sitting. Those were my fault. Yes, you are elitist.

The advent of the procs does seem to be a bit high if they exist in more than 25% of the rooms, but to complain that the direction of the mud has taken a hit because of 1 zone experience?

Basically you didn't enjoy your experience in Invasion because you did not get any equipment. I did not enjoy it because I felt the zone was modified such that people died pointlessly. I expressed that via petition. This post is my way of explaining to the Imms what I think is wrong with the direction of the mud. Jot invasion was the tip of the iceberg of my past month experience on the mud. If you would have read my entire post, you would have seen that it consisted more of the one sentence you decided to pick apart because you did not get any equipment last night. On a side note, after we split the efreettii ring I had five people tell me via tell that they enjoyed the experience, I had 3/4 the group say they would not do Invasion again because they thought the proc was pointless, I had one person tell me thanks for inviting them because they had been trying to get a group for the past three hours with no luck, and I had two of the newer players thanking me for taking them. Although the trip was not a success in your eyes, it was a success in mine.

there are only so many ways you can continue to make the game enjoyable for those that have "done it all". Higher level encounters that are much more difficult are one of those things.

My point is to address how to offer higher level encounters wihout isolating 90% of the zones on the mud from being undone. You never addressed this issue.

Players don't have hours upon hours anymore to be online.

Just because you changed does not mean the world has changed. This reflects your self centered attitude towards the mud and towards life. Players are the same. The fact that people will spend 14 hours doing tiamat is proof of that. I am pointing out things that can be changed to attract player base. You are pointing out why you did not get equipment.

Maybe we can gear this post more towards the ideas I have brought up and whether other people think they are valid as opposed to Tasan's personal bitch session for not getting more elite eq.

Mikar

[Tasan]

unnecessary drama deleted.

[ssar]

zones like tiamat or Jotunheim invasion are one of the most disappointing elements to the current state of the mud.

Hrm, I gotta disagree with you there.
For many, it is the high-end zones like these (incl . spob, izans, musp, magma, meilich, choking palace, that new ice caverns area etc) that are truly adding a lot of excitement, challenges and providing opportunities for a longterm sense of accomplishment in this game.

Sure there are detrimental aspects to this, but there is a dark side to almost everything, and the politics and structure of sojourn/torilmud is no exception.
But I generally try to embrace the enjoyable aspects and fun in the game.

Personally, Mikar, (and I do not know you at all btw) I have a high lvl of respect for you and consider you to be one of the higher end inspiration type players from years ago. I recall seeing you around when I was starting to get into the game, and also am happy to have been in some of your hunts and groups over the years which always seemed run very well and enjoyable (if quite bloody at times) - hell man, way better than I.

I can see significant similarities between the surrent state of the game and how it was during Sojourn years ago (somewhat regular tiamat hunts, an upper echelon of players, zones etc.), EXCEPT now there is a lot less average pbase.

Good to see you back man, anyways, and I hope to die alongside of you more often in the future!

[Thilindel]

I remember Mikar quite well. Would go with him in 2001 when I finally found out Sojourn was back up again..he was doing ICvault

[Dalar]

funny, but unnecessary drama deleted.

[Marthammor]

Just as a side note: Those room procs in Jot invasion will have been removed for something a little more favorable I think. This should be in soonish (within the month).

[shalath]

Unnecessary drama added for the specific purposes of deleting it.

[kiryan]

I still don't think the direction or the attitude of the mud has changed in principle with the sole exception of no Mystra and the lack of innovation.

In 1994 sojourn was the innovator and while we have added code and features over the year, I'm not sure it qualifies as innovation.

Everything else appears to be a direct result to the declining pbase.

[Corth]

declining pbase / lack of innovation.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[Ragorn]

Easy, the lack of innovation.

Don't get me wrong, Toril is a good game for what it is. It's a text-based PvE level grinding MUD, with diverse endgame zones and lots of quests. That's what it is. You level up, you do zones, you get equipment, you do more zones.

Toril is not a game about tradeskills. It's not about multiclassing, remorting, building houses, extensive PvP, unique artifact items, or an extensive economy. There are games on the market which feature those concepts, and as these new games are released, Toril bleeds off a few people who might be interested. That explains a large part of your declining pbase. If Sojourn/Toril had implemented more of these features, we may have retained more people who are looking for this style of play. But Toril did not implement these things, and I completely understand the Forgers' reasons for not doing so in most cases. So here we are.

What's left now are the people who WANT to zone, who WANT to level to 50 and grind out BC/Seelie/SPOB. The people who are, by and large, happy with the static nature of the game. We talk all the time about adding this, updating that, changing something else... but really, Toril has a fanbase for the game it is, not the game that someone wants it to be. If you're unhappy with the direction the game has gone, stop playing it and play something else. I haven't had a character over level 20 in over five years. I hang around here for the community. When I want to be a loot whore, or I want to do a quest real quick and have it done, I load up World of Warcraft. When I want rock'em sock'em fast paced combat action, I play City of Heroes.

Your tastes as a gamer may evolve over time. Toril hasn't changed much. Perhaps you've evolved past the phase in your gaming career where you enjoy the kind of game Toril is. It's a sad realization at first, to understand that Toril is never going to be the game that you wish it was. If that's the case, then go play something else, and stop by the forums here from time to time. Really, there's no point in being critical of the game on a macro scale... it is what it is. You either enjoy it, or you don't.

[Nilan]

I am sorry Mikar left and deleted himself. He was a good friend to me, we had a blast all the years i known him.

I think ill miss him alot. He was a great friend, a great helper to all folks, including new players and a all around great player. He is definietly a true elite player.

I will miss him, and I know many more will too.

Keep in touch Mikar bro, find me on icq!

Nilan
aka
Stabby

[Sarell]

Make a 5% load 20HP 3dam diamondine.

Repeat in all the other great zones that dont get done.