Hmm

[Ambar]

Why dont people take advice anymore? When in exp groups, that is the best time to learn your class..

Some folks know I have a lvl 50 bard. I may be a mediocre bard, but even I know to switch to heal song when there is ONE cleric, no shaman, and people in the group are getting their asses handed to them.

It is frustrating when you offer advice to be told that *I was told to sing haste so I am*. I started being a total ass about it, and the bard stopped the haste song and started REGEN, said *how do you like THAT*. It's akin to watching a lvl 50 invoker cast magic missile.

I showed my ass a LOT in this group, and I was totally wrong. I displayed the attitude that I am known to display, the leet minded btich one. If the group leader was upset about the battlechanters behavior, he would have said something, I guess... it wasnt my place. I again apologize to those who were in the group, cause I pissed off the singer and he left the group, causing the group to fall apart.

Another word to the battlechanter, learn your class. If you admittedly afk all the time, stop doing that, you only hurt your performance and the groups livliehood. If you really dont want to use your own brain and switch to a healing song, then send a tell to the leader and ask if it is OK to switch since group members are gettign their asses beat...

Any character gets little skills or spells, in a singers case, songs. As you adnvance, those skills are no longer needed and you start using the bigger ones. There is NO good reason for a bard to use regen at lvl 50, NONE!

As a side note, this was a DS group of 7? Ogre tank unsure level, level 40 dayblind cleric, lvl 50 battlechanter, lvl 36 neutral bard, lvl 50? Psi, lvl 20 battlechanter(me), lvl 24? elementalist. For some reason, Tanks rescues were failing (he said this was normally not the case and I assume he is correct), and mobs were switching left and right.

If this is too scathing (keep in mind only the people in the group know to whom I am referring) then I will remove this first post. My initial thoughts on t he battlechanter were thast "this guy would never last a few years ago, he doesant listen, he doesnt use his own common sense" but I guess thats oldschool evil mentality.

I guess the reason I am posting is that I want to know when people stopped listening to older players. (Not better, OLDER)

[Glorishan]

I don't listen to older players for 1 reason. Who wants to listen to asshats like Galzar?

[ssar]

Singing country 'n western music > all.
(read: "play 'song of the elem'")

;)

[Disoputlip]

Wierd post, you apologise, then you re-bitch about players not listening.

I am slightly unsure what your intent is, but can say that to my knowledge all players still listen.

Some may pretend the don't listen, but they do. And some are AFK (ok, AFK ppl don't listen)

So what if a player doesn't 100% take your advice.. it is not the end of the world. Calm down if you get a rude reply back, mabye make a neutral gsay a. la. "we should haste hitters, and sing haste". Then it is out in the open, and you can get constructive feedback from group.

[Ambar]

I apologized cause I was the cause of the group falling apart. I bitched cause I dont get why folks dont listen.

People do NOT listen.. When you adivse people anymore, they either take it wrong (you are picking on me why should I change?) or respond like *I am a robot, I do as I am told, I do not use my own mind at all*

[Gukov]

'Offering' advice while being an 'ass' and a 'leet minded bitch' is only going to get you a similarly appropriate response, which it sounds like this bchanter did. If you don't like the group's methods, leave. The fact that you drove this person to leave the group tells me more about your behavior than theirs. Don't bitch about it and let it get you so worked up that you feel the need to whine on the bbs. I assure you people work out much more significant issues through use of tell and gsay.

[Ambar]

I already said what i did was wrong, sillyhead :P

I apologized to all involved already .. I was citing the example that folks seem not to want to accept advice any longer, few take constructive critisism without taking it as personal affronts, noone wants to improve as players.

We arent talking rocket science here, it was a matter of singing REGEN over healing song :P

[Xisiqomelir]

WTG Jen! You tell those incompetents how to be skillfull hahahaha. For everyone complaining, would you rather see mean-sounding but well-intentioned gsays, or "Welcome to Toril" and X minutes wasted on CRing because people don't know how to play their own classes?

One last thing:

There is NO good reason for a bard to use regen at lvl 50, NONE!

3+ illithids in group ;)

[Arilin Nydelahar]

Shrug :P Personally I think it can all go back to Pava's post about the evil pbase. People don't freaking listen to advise and for the most part suck because of it.

More power to people trying, but really listen once in awhile and don't be an ass about it, and it's all ok. It's not that huge a deal.

[Latreg]

I apologized cause I was the cause of the group falling apart. I bitched cause I dont get why folks dont listen.

People do NOT listen.. When you adivse people anymore, they either take it wrong (you are picking on me why should I change?) or respond like *I am a robot, I do as I am told, I do not use my own mind at all*

Are you saying people don't listen because they don't do what you say? I think I'm missing something here, they could have been listening and just not taken your advise right? I'm not saying this person wasn't a bone head, because veryone who plays a bard type is (calm down i'm just kidding). But seriously, I've noticed that people will get into exp groups even though they don't really need it just to help the other people out, so their minds aren't really into what they are doing. As long as everyone didn't have less exp than they started with, I'd just write it off as a bad day.

[Disoputlip]

WTG Jen! You tell those incompetents how to be skillfull hahahaha. For everyone complaining, would you rather see mean-sounding but well-intentioned gsays, or "Welcome to Toril" and X minutes wasted on CRing because people don't know how to play their own classes?

One last thing:

There is NO good reason for a bard to use regen at lvl 50, NONE!

3+ illithids in group ;)

renew and regen are 2 different songs.

[Thilindel]

reminds me when I was chanting for ds xp - had a bard who insisted on singing haste, yet we didn't have any healer with us. Here I am hasting, scaling, etc and this guy says 'if they don't like the song, they can leave the group.' 5 min later our tank dies. It's not really a matter of pride when players can die. Losing the bard from the group is inconsequential at this point. Except the roll of a half-assed hitter (wearing hp eq), he's no benefit whatsoever.

How I addressed it was this in gsays: hey, bard, we have no healing and I'm hasting, so we need u to sing heal. Bard: I don't need to practice that one. ..it's just blah blah from there.

[Xisiqomelir]

WTG Jen! You tell those incompetents how to be skillfull hahahaha. For everyone complaining, would you rather see mean-sounding but well-intentioned gsays, or "Welcome to Toril" and X minutes wasted on CRing because people don't know how to play their own classes?

One last thing:

There is NO good reason for a bard to use regen at lvl 50, NONE!

3+ illithids in group ;)

renew and regen are 2 different songs.

Oh wow I didn't even see that. More winpoints for the bard!

[Ragorn]

If someone besides the group leader told me to sing a different song, I'd ignore them too.

[Ambar]

If someone besides the group leader told me to sing a different song, I'd ignore them too.

sorry, group leader was too busy running in and out healing (ogre tank once again)

i dont know, it just comes down to knowing your classs i guess :(

[Arilin Nydelahar]

If someone besides the group leader told me to sing a different song, I'd ignore them too.

Depends. If we're talking Tia, yeah. Listen to your group leader.

If we're in DS, and the Ogre tank is killing treants/giants sans stone, and he keeps falling to nasty/ph while the leader/cleric is in and out of room healing, and the main bard/battlechanter in group(whom is level 50) is screwing around singing haste, and when we ask why he isn't singing heal he switches to regen and also states that heal is overrated, I have a problem with that.

[alendar]

boggle....

i wasn't ingroup... but...

i dont think i see the "bard/battlechanter" replying....

i also have noticed that in evil groups... being aggro to a mob means you should bring it back to the group over and over and over and over and over again....

this seems to be my biggest problem about the evil groups i have been in....

alendar...

btw ... i'm not point fingers... i have force missile and it may go off...
no sense in putting eyes out!

[Lilira]

I'm not saying this person wasn't a bone head, because veryone who plays a bard type is (calm down i'm just kidding).

:-*

We love you too!

[Botef]

If someone besides the group leader told me to sing a different song, I'd ignore them too.

If you've been playing awhile leaders start to expect you to know certain things about your class/zones without being told...DS is one of those places that, after so many trips, you should be more than familiar with the dynamics and what you should/shouldn't be doing and when.

When a group is doing a zone like crypts, Necromancers/Lichs who have been before know to keep globes up...They shouldn't be waiting until the group leader tells them to get them up again. Just because another group member reminds them and not the leader isnt a very good excuse for not listening.

You should always be listening to players with more experience than you, and if your not sure ask the group leader if its ok. Now in situations where the group leader says to do one thing, and someone else says to do another- yea, listen to the group leader.

If all you do is listen to the group leader and act like a dead fish until told to do something by them, your not a very good addition to the group IMO.

[Yarash]

You do not need to apologize for offering advice. However, once advice is offered, it is up to the individual to act on it. Further comments will not help...ie: say what you have to say and let it drop.

Additionally, there is very little more aggrivating to me than having someone who isn't playing my class telling me what I should be doing, if I do know what I'm doing (or think I do). I also realize that the person is usually just trying to help...I'm just being completely honest about my own personal feelings (which I keep to myself and don't make an outward show of). My first gut reaction is usually annoyance, "This person doesn't think I can play my class.", followed a couple minutes later with, "Ok, how is that different from what I've been doing, and which way is better?" If I'm playing a new character, then I gladly listen to all advice given. With high level chars, I never snap back at the person but it is often something that ticks me off. I always assume this could be the case with others, which is why advising people, especially at high levels, should be done with a soft touch.

If the tank was constantly falling to ph, then you did the right thing in suggesting that the person sing heal. Next time I'd just say it once, then let whatever happens happen, and then the tank can, appropriately, yell at the singer. Or another thing you could do is make the suggestion to the group leader by tell, and if he agrees, have him tell the person what to do.

Also, if the group fell apart after the singer left, I wouldn't feel too bad about it. With your healer you could have continued, so it was probably about time for some folks to take off anyways.

- Mike

[Vipplin]

I am not exactly new but am new to playing an Enchanter. I always listen to advice, and decide whether it is a good idea or not. When in doubt about what the leader wants in relation to advice given, I'd probably tell to the leader XX suggests I do YY, ok with you?

Anyway, sounds like the bchanter may have been an arse (haven't heard their story). But I also agree that perhaps you should have made your suggestion once, then followed up with the leader or just let the chips fall where they may. I would have thought that the group leader, as the healer, would have a good feel for if the tank wasn't getting the healing luvin' enough and would have/should have let the bchanter know if there was a problem.

Iyced

[Tanji Smanji]

You just wait. I'm gonna make my fortune by inventing a device to physically punish people over the internet. Then it'll be on if you don't listen to me!



P.S. Since I'm inventing it, it won't work on me, nyah!

[grundar]

sometimes i think mudders lack basic sense of humour

heal song is overated? come on that is obviously a bardtype being funny.. and if bardtypes cant be funny what can they be, other than lazy? :P

its just exp anyway. relax.

[Anab]

Ok so here is your lvl 50 battlechanter replying....

If you had paid more attention you would of noticed me going from heal to regen.......i did this to heal and then regeneration seemed to be working fine...as i stated this i said heal would be overkill on the situatuon not overrated.......i also believe i asked you if you sincerely had a problem with me doign what i did *in tells mind you* i was told by the cleric/leader to sing haste...he said help out with healing when needed. No one died or came close.Bitch when someone dies and ill take credit for their deaths. I hate it when people tell me to do this and that when im instructed by other people to do this and that. So as i said to you i do what my leader wants when he wants it. He was the cleric also and no one else what bitching but you. The whole "i have a level 50 bard i know what im doing" grates on peoples nerves....escpecially when things seem to be going fine.......people werent gettting there asses pounded they hit few and i was already on heal then when the rest of the group was healed i switched to regeneration.....and if your going to imitate how i was in group do it with the knowledge you have no clue who i am and i am kidding all the time.......IF YOU THINK I WAS TRYING TO COME ACROSS AS A LEET BARD then you obviously didnt pick up on the sarcasm. Im going to end this hopefully with a you got a problem with me keep it private...there is no need for stupid shit to be said in group says or on the website bbs for christs sake....if you cannot simply show the respect of communicating with me in tells then i my willingness to listen to you or even do what you tell me to do goes down dramatically. I left the group because overall i respect you and i didnt want to cause problems but as i heard i was continually berrated even after i left??? and that you apologize stuff is crap! I asked you nicely in tells if you had a problem with it and what not and asked you to keep it to tells as no one likes to be berrated in front of others.......you then immediately went to a gsay about the situation of me not being a skilled player. What was with calling me an Idiot btw? Anyways im done with this....if you have a problem talk to me privately...im not someone who blows up and is just a dick about things. Good day!

[Tasan]

Playing style is one of the last things keeping everyone from being the same. I'm all for unique playing style and to hell with anyone who tells me to do anything.

!!x

[Ambar]

I am not the one who continually berated you after you left the group, get the facts straight. That was NOT me.

Also, you could have remained anon, NOONE has made mention WHO the person was until NOW, I specifically said the members of the group were the ONLY ones who knew who you are :P

Now that you call yourself out, tho .. its on :P

I got tells from a couple people in the group that the battlechanter was lazy, and not doing his job. I apologized BOTH to you in tells, and to every member of the group in a separate tell. If you cannot conced that, then what can I say?

I made mention of the fact that I have a bard as well, to illustrate the fact that I may have some clue to what I was speaking. When THREE people in the group went to nasty wounds, it was time to friggin switch songs.

Sarcasm WAS duly noted and NOT needed. Newer players as a whole DO NOT listen, they go afk, they dont pay attention.

Do NOT become a sheep who merely follows the herd leader, BE the one who makes a difference. Do you think the group leader would have minded you switching to HEAL for a few rounds?? I DOUBT it :) He was runnign his ASS off back and forth trying to heal who was needed.

For the record: I had forgotten you were also Anab :P

[Thilindel]

I kinda hope they delete this thread. You both are nice ppl so this thread doesn't serve anything but bad feelings later on :)

[Ambar]

Yeah, I'd say feel free to delete the thread, my originial intent wasnt to drag this guy thru the mud so to speak, it was simply me trying to understand why people dont listen to advice anymore..

advice is normally ignored now, or taken as a personal affront. When I started playing here seriously, I always asked people's advice. I listened to what they said and I tried it. If it didnt work, I adapted it to where it worked for me. People have either become too sensitive as a result of society, or just lazier? Im not sure.

it still seems funny to me that certain people find my attiotude *elitist*. I am one of the more mild mannered people around, I just cant stand mediocrity. A few yars ago that was a desired characteristic. People took pride in doing well, I STILL do. I didnt ever want anyone to feel they NEEDED to offer advice unless I was failing as a player. If advice was offered, I took it as a lesson to improve myself. Did I take it too seriously? I dont think so. I treat a game as anything, you give it 100%, you practice to imrpove your skills, it takes time to be a good player.

So yeah, I'd say this thread has outlived its usefulness.

As a side note, if someone is talking about you in a thread, there may be a reason they want to keep your name out of it. If you chose to bring your name into it, then heed the advice given.

I once again apologize for anything I may have said to offend anyone if this group. I was only trying to help, but my frustration overcame reason..

-Jennifer

[Anab]

Jen next time dont call someone an idiot before you give advice... thats all i can say and i wont be anon. I take credit for mistakes, misfortunes, and stupidity........you gave advice and it was heeded....after i was asked to help with healing i did so did i not??? wether or not they were up to your expectations should not result you in calling someone names....and i dont see where this is on because i responded?!?!?! I have not called you out or called you a single name or done anything then explain my story to YOU, so whatever is said after this post will not be read by me as i feel i have explained myself and my reasoning. I never accused you of anything Jen i simply stated the way things went down or the way i viewed them. If you believe there is some sort of beef or feud between me and you than you are mistaken. As i said in my first post I Respected You enough to leave group and not argue or comment on shit. This being said I figured a level 20 battlechanter and a 38 now bard could of kept the group alive as a 50 who is afk and half assing his job did it.................

[Llaaldara]

This thread makes it so I just can't wait for the day when Toril allows multiplaying and people start writing up threads bitching about their alts playing like crap and how they gave them a hard time because of it.

[Ambar]

I didnt call anyone names, sheesh.. that was NOT me :( There was someone else in group who may have done so, but not me!!!

O sigh ..

[Ambar]

double post ..

I have no beef with anyone (wellll maybe one:P)

If I did, I'd use names rather than class

[teflor the ranger]

As a side note, this was a DS group of 7? Ogre tank unsure level, level 40 dayblind cleric, lvl 50 battlechanter, lvl 36 neutral bard, lvl 50? Psi, lvl 20 battlechanter(me), lvl 24? elementalist. For some reason, Tanks rescues were failing (he said this was normally not the case and I assume he is correct), and mobs were switching left and right.

Heh. 'Normally' not the case when he's rescuing off lvl 30 mobs.

[Ezwar]

Well mabey im unimportant or mabey you just forgot about me but i was there lv 25 invoker..... I personaly think that your advice would have been taken better if you dident tell him that he dident know what he was doing, or to just use his brain, ridiculing the person you are trying to give advice to only draws contempt. Mabey he was singing the wrong songs, and mabey he wasent playing his character right, but no one needs to jump his ass about it. there are nicer ways to let someone know that what they are doing is not working for you. but im just a noob so what would i know, i guess its just my opinion.



Memento Mori

Ezwar

[Ambar]

Sorry yeah I did forget you were there

I wonder how many times I have to remind you guys that I apologized POROFUSELY about my beahvior

and once again, the BBS populace in general wouldnt know who it was unless he himself hadnt responded

the entire point of this thread has been missed i think by all but a very select few

[Ragorn]

If you've got some inter-personal issues with someone else in the game, mmail. It's strange to me that you would post something like this on an open forum and then be taken aback when the bchanter steps forward to defend himself. The BBS is a public place, and things posted here go public.

It never ceases to amaze me when someone makes a post about how SOMEONE did SOMETHING bad and they should know better, but we're not going to talk about who or what. And then we're surprised when names come out?